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[liopoil]

I got carcassonne fairly recently and have been really enjoying it. It was just the base game, but it came with the river and we also have the 6 windrose tiles that came with an issue of the spielbox magazine. Those are just really small additions to the game though. My games are starting to be a bit similar and so a bit dull because the strategy is always the same. I know there are a lot of expansions to the game and so am considering getting one to increase replay ability. So I'm asking anyone here who has played with some of the expansions for advice. Are the expansions worth getting? Are they like dominion in that they make it a whole new game? Which one is good to start with? Will I likely be sucked into getting most or all of the expansions eventually? Is it worth getting sucked into getting all of the expansions like it was with dominion? I haven't done a whole lot of research into what each one adds yet.

[Teproc]

It is NOT worth getting all the expansions. The Catapult is a particularly reviled one, and is constantly referenced as being an example of "milking the cow". I "only" have two expansions with Carcassonne and I like them both, there are:

- Traders & Builders. It adds a bunch of city tiles with trade goods on them which you get when you close a city (regardless of wether you're controlling the city), and there's points at the end of the game for getting the majority in a specific resource. It also gives a cool additional meeple, the Architect, which allows you to play an extra turn sometimes, and a less cool additional meeple, the pig, who enhances a farm (makes it worth 4 points per closed city instead of 4).
- Inns & Cathedral. Inns are special road tiles which make the road worth double the points but nothing if it isn't closed at the end of the game. Cathedrals are the same for cities (3 points per tile instead of 2) and are very swingy and interesting to play (there's only two of them). Also you get a "big" follower for each color which is worth 2 points in majorities.

Expansions are not as important to Carcassonne as they are for Dominion I would say. They add fun things and can change the game in interesting ways. Overall Carcassonne has solid replayability, but if you're expecting to be as replayable as Dominion, that's simply not going to happen, because Dominion is built to be as enjoyable after 100000 games, which very few games are.

[Axxle]

It is NOT worth getting all the expansions. The Catapult is a particularly reviled one, and is constantly referenced as being an example of "milking the cow". I "only" have two expansions with Carcassonne and I like them both, there are:

- Traders & Builders. It adds a bunch of city tiles with trade goods on them which you get when you close a city (regardless of wether you're controlling the city), and there's points at the end of the game for getting the majority in a specific resource. It also gives a cool additional meeple, the Architect, which allows you to play an extra turn sometimes, and a less cool additional meeple, the pig, who enhances a farm (makes it worth 4 points per closed city instead of 4).
- Inns & Cathedral. Inns are special road tiles which make the road worth double the points but nothing if it isn't closed at the end of the game. Cathedrals are the same for cities (3 points per tile instead of 2) and are very swingy and interesting to play (there's only two of them). Also you get a "big" follower for each color which is worth 2 points in majorities.

Expansions are not as important to Carcassonne as they are for Dominion I would say. They add fun things and can change the game in interesting ways. Overall Carcassonne has solid replayability, but if you're expecting to be as replayable as Dominion, that's simply not going to happen, because Dominion is built to be as enjoyable after 100000 games, which very few games are.

These are the more interesting expansions I've gotten. I also suggest Abbey & Mayor which gives each player an "Abbey" tile which I find invaluable, it basically lets you finish an impossible spot.

I also got The Princess & the Dragon which I don't really recommend, it has some quirky rules and is pretty harsh on the lead player since it introduces ways of removing meeples from the board.

[DG]

I think Donald X. once mentioned that he preferred Hunters and Gatherers and from the ones I've seen I would agree with him.

[KingZog3]

It is NOT worth getting all the expansions. The Catapult is a particularly reviled one, and is constantly referenced as being an example of "milking the cow". I "only" have two expansions with Carcassonne and I like them both, there are:

- Traders & Builders. It adds a bunch of city tiles with trade goods on them which you get when you close a city (regardless of wether you're controlling the city), and there's points at the end of the game for getting the majority in a specific resource. It also gives a cool additional meeple, the Architect, which allows you to play an extra turn sometimes, and a less cool additional meeple, the pig, who enhances a farm (makes it worth 4 points per closed city instead of 4).
- Inns & Cathedral. Inns are special road tiles which make the road worth double the points but nothing if it isn't closed at the end of the game. Cathedrals are the same for cities (3 points per tile instead of 2) and are very swingy and interesting to play (there's only two of them). Also you get a "big" follower for each color which is worth 2 points in majorities.

Expansions are not as important to Carcassonne as they are for Dominion I would say. They add fun things and can change the game in interesting ways. Overall Carcassonne has solid replayability, but if you're expecting to be as replayable as Dominion, that's simply not going to happen, because Dominion is built to be as enjoyable after 100000 games, which very few games are.

These are the more interesting expansions I've gotten. I also suggest Abbey & Mayor which gives each player an "Abbey" tile which I find invaluable, it basically lets you finish an impossible spot.

I also got The Princess & the Dragon which I don't really recommend, it has some quirky rules and is pretty harsh on the lead player since it introduces ways of removing meeples from the board.

Inns is good

Abbey and mayor is good. I think this is the one with the barns, which actually do change the game. It can instantly cash in on a field, and is also worth more points at the end of the game. Anyone who attaches to the barn field also gets to cash in on a field, so it changes the entire nature of having to spend your unit for the entire game. You do only get 1 barn though, so it's still an investment to put it on the right field.

Builders is good. I like this one the best because the builder unit is strategically interesting.

[Axxle]

It is NOT worth getting all the expansions. The Catapult is a particularly reviled one, and is constantly referenced as being an example of "milking the cow". I "only" have two expansions with Carcassonne and I like them both, there are:

- Traders & Builders. It adds a bunch of city tiles with trade goods on them which you get when you close a city (regardless of wether you're controlling the city), and there's points at the end of the game for getting the majority in a specific resource. It also gives a cool additional meeple, the Architect, which allows you to play an extra turn sometimes, and a less cool additional meeple, the pig, who enhances a farm (makes it worth 4 points per closed city instead of 4).
- Inns & Cathedral. Inns are special road tiles which make the road worth double the points but nothing if it isn't closed at the end of the game. Cathedrals are the same for cities (3 points per tile instead of 2) and are very swingy and interesting to play (there's only two of them). Also you get a "big" follower for each color which is worth 2 points in majorities.

Expansions are not as important to Carcassonne as they are for Dominion I would say. They add fun things and can change the game in interesting ways. Overall Carcassonne has solid replayability, but if you're expecting to be as replayable as Dominion, that's simply not going to happen, because Dominion is built to be as enjoyable after 100000 games, which very few games are.

These are the more interesting expansions I've gotten. I also suggest Abbey & Mayor which gives each player an "Abbey" tile which I find invaluable, it basically lets you finish an impossible spot.

I also got The Princess & the Dragon which I don't really recommend, it has some quirky rules and is pretty harsh on the lead player since it introduces ways of removing meeples from the board.

Inns is good

Abbey and mayor is good. I think this is the one with the barns, which actually do change the game. It can instantly cash in on a field, and is also worth more points at the end of the game. Anyone who attaches to the barn field also gets to cash in on a field, so it changes the entire nature of having to spend your unit for the entire game. You do only get 1 barn though, so it's still an investment to put it on the right field.

Builders is good. I like this one the best because the builder unit is strategically interesting.

I like builders with Inns/cathedral since it actually makes it possible to complete those high point things, heh.

[Watno]

I like it best wsith Inns&Cathedrals + Traders&Builders as well. The Dragon&Princess is ok.

[yuma]

My wife and I for the last two years gave each other carcassonne mini expansions as stocking stuffers.

We have liked them. They are small and don't add a significant amount to the game. Enough we think to change the game up. Since we have 4 we can play with zero, one, four or mix and match. At my local game store they were $5 a pop so weren't a large investment (which was our main reason for getting them).

Robbers is our least favorite. All of them I think give an element of randomness, but Carcassonne already is something of a random game based off its tile flipping element. We like them enough for $5 each, but Carcassonne isn't a game that we want to invest $40 worth to get other expansions. We actually got one for Christmas and took it back and used that money to get Dark Ages.

[sudgy]

I got all of the expansions (up to a certain point, I don't know if they made more), just for the sake of getting them all.  They are all (mostly) fun, even if the catapult is mainly fun to make fun of.  The main problem is that when you get too many expansions, the game takes forever.  You can fix that by placing time limits on games or tile limits on games, and such.  I wouldn't recommend getting all of them unless you really liked the game and are a completionist.

[hsiale]

The set I'd recommend for first expanding of the game is:
- Inns and Cathedrals,
- Traders and Builders,
- The Phantom.

Those three are simple and very good. They add some special meeples and 42 extra tiles.

Then, if you want more, make sure that you either make some sort of randomizer to choose expansions set for each game or have only experienced players who can play quickly, as otherwise a 200+ tiles game can drag horribly. Things I like best outside of the expansions mentioned before:
- bridges and castles (but not bazaars)
- ferries
- tower
- dragon (only in 3+ player games, with 2 players dragon will very rarely do anything, also the rest of this expansion is not so great so it may be good to print some volcano and dragon stickers to paste on several base set tiles and use any dragon figure you can find).

[eHalcyon]

I think Donald X. once mentioned that he preferred Hunters and Gatherers and from the ones I've seen I would agree with him.

H&G is a standalone game.  Does it also work as a Carcassonne expansion?  My understanding was that it's a spin-off which improved on the original in various ways that I don't remember.

My friend has H&G... I don't really like Carcassonne anymore though, because it feels too luck-driven.  I don't mind luck if I feel there is enough strategy/tactics to make up for it, as in Dominion, but (whether right or wrong) I don't feel that way about Carcassonne.

[Teproc]

One way to make Carcassonne less luck-driven is to draw a "hand" of three tiles, rather than just reveal the tiles one by one. It does make the game a little longer, but that's not a big deal if you're play with 2 or 3 players only.

[shraeye]

I don't really like Carcassonne anymore though, because it feels too luck-driven. 

I must be the only gamer that likes luck-driven games.

Luck-driven, strategy-steered.  I'm not promoting Snakes & Ladders here.

[liopoil]

Thanks for all the advice guys! That three-tile hand idea sounds great, I think we'll have to try that before getting an expansion.

[eHalcyon]

I don't really like Carcassonne anymore though, because it feels too luck-driven. 

I must be the only gamer that likes luck-driven games.

Luck-driven, strategy-steered.  I'm not promoting Snakes & Ladders here.

It's a balance.  I'm not saying Carcassonne is all luck.  It just feels to me that strategy matters far less than luck, in a way that I don't personally enjoy.  We tried Carcassonne with the hand of 3 tiles (at my suggestion) and I still didn't like it that much.  My friends still enjoy it though.

I feel similarly about Eclipse.  It feels like the luck with initial Explore actions matters a lot.  I know that there are strategic ways to mitigate that luck, but it still feels overly luck-driven to me, which makes me enjoy Eclipse much less than my friends do.

[Teproc]

Well I do agree that Carcassonne is fairly luck-driven (even with the 3 hand tile) but it's fine because ultimately it's a fairly light game. It's much more problematic with a game like Eclipse because it's a heavy and long game. That being said I didn't feel that too much when playing Eclipse, although I onl played once.

[eHalcyon]

Well I do agree that Carcassonne is fairly luck-driven (even with the 3 hand tile) but it's fine because ultimately it's a fairly light game. It's much more problematic with a game like Eclipse because it's a heavy and long game. That being said I didn't feel that too much when playing Eclipse, although I onl played once.

Yeah, that's true.  Carcassonne is still a good game.  Just not my preference.

As for Eclipse, I'm almost positive that the element of luck can be mitigated by skillful play.  It's just that I'm not skillful enough to figure out how to survive if I never get the chance to colonize anything.  In my most recent game, I played the Plants but I only found like three planets to colonize in the first half of the game despite the double Explore.  Mostly ran into ancients before I could afford any ship upgrades.  Maybe I underestimate my early game ability to take down ancients.  Meanwhile, the guy across the table keeps finding double and triple planet tiles and snowballs from there.

I'll still play Eclipse because my friends love it and I think it will get better with more experience.  Still, I'm not a huge fan of it for now.

[Kuildeous]

One way to make Carcassonne less luck-driven is to draw a "hand" of three tiles, rather than just reveal the tiles one by one. It does make the game a little longer, but that's not a big deal if you're play with 2 or 3 players only.

I don't really see how it makes the game longer. If anything, I'd imagine it would shorten the game a bit.

Caveat: I haven't tried this, so I could be talking out my ass here.

So, if you play with just one tile that is revealed when it's your turn, then you have some processing time to consider. You draw a tile. If you're lucky, it's exactly what you've been hoping for during the last three players' turns. Boom, you're done. Most likely, it's something that has a dozen different placement options, and you need to spend a few moments calculating the most point gain while denying your opponents as best as possible. So the next player has to wait before seeing his tile. That means the player after him has to wait, etc.

Now, this could be offset by simply drawing a tile at the end of your turn, giving you a whole round to figure out where to place it. That alone would cut down on time.

But a hand of three would allow you not only that luxury but also the ability to prepare a contingency plan when it's not your turn. You're sitting there with the perfect tile that'll get you 20 points. All that needs to happen is that Carl doesn't put a tile in that exact same…oh, goddammit, Carl, why did you do that? Okay, fine, now you have your monastery ready for plan B.

Again, this is all theoretical for me, but it sounds good.

[theory]

...there are people who don't draw Carcassone tiles at the end of the turn instead of at the start?

[Axxle]

...there are people who don't draw Carcassone tiles at the end of the turn instead of at the start?

yes

[Asper]

It is NOT worth getting all the expansions. The Catapult is a particularly reviled one, and is constantly referenced as being an example of "milking the cow". I "only" have two expansions with Carcassonne and I like them both, there are:

- Traders & Builders. It adds a bunch of city tiles with trade goods on them which you get when you close a city (regardless of wether you're controlling the city), and there's points at the end of the game for getting the majority in a specific resource. It also gives a cool additional meeple, the Architect, which allows you to play an extra turn sometimes, and a less cool additional meeple, the pig, who enhances a farm (makes it worth 4 points per closed city instead of 4).
- Inns & Cathedral. Inns are special road tiles which make the road worth double the points but nothing if it isn't closed at the end of the game. Cathedrals are the same for cities (3 points per tile instead of 2) and are very swingy and interesting to play (there's only two of them). Also you get a "big" follower for each color which is worth 2 points in majorities.

Expansions are not as important to Carcassonne as they are for Dominion I would say. They add fun things and can change the game in interesting ways. Overall Carcassonne has solid replayability, but if you're expecting to be as replayable as Dominion, that's simply not going to happen, because Dominion is built to be as enjoyable after 100000 games, which very few games are.

I came here, thinking i could add something. Then i read this and was corrected, because all was allready said.

[Awaclus]

I recommend buying them in the release order but skipping Catapult and The Princess & The Dragon, because Catapult is just retarded and The Princess & The Dragon is very swingy and the Dragon is completely irrelevant most of the time. It's worth noting that games can take easily 6+ hours if you add a lot of expansions, though, so if you don't like long games, it's probably a good idea to buy just the two first expansions.

EDIT: I don't think Carcassonne is that much luck-driven. If you keep getting tiles that you don't need, you should ask yourself if there is something that you could have done to need those tiles. If your opponent keeps getting tiles that he needs, you should ask yourself if there is something that you could have done to profit from your opponent's tiles as well. Sure, there's a lot of luck involved, but that's also true for Dominion. They're completely different, though; Dominion requires you to plan ahead, Carcassonne doesn't really let you do that a lot. Instead, you have to choose the best play for the current situation.

[KingZog3]

I recommend buying them in the release order but skipping Catapult and The Princess & The Dragon, because Catapult is just retarded and The Princess & The Dragon is very swingy and the Dragon is completely irrelevant most of the time. It's worth noting that games can take easily 6+ hours if you add a lot of expansions, though, so if you don't like long games, it's probably a good idea to buy just the two first expansions.

EDIT: I don't think Carcassonne is that much luck-driven. If you keep getting tiles that you don't need, you should ask yourself if there is something that you could have done to need those tiles. If your opponent keeps getting tiles that he needs, you should ask yourself if there is something that you could have done to profit from your opponent's tiles as well. Sure, there's a lot of luck involved, but that's also true for Dominion. They're completely different, though; Dominion requires you to plan ahead, Carcassonne doesn't really let you do that a lot. Instead, you have to choose the best play for the current situation.

I agree about the luck factor. Similar to Puerto Rico, you can't decide at the start of the game "I'm going to make a huge city and score big while blocking everyone else from joining." Every turn is a short term plan, and you shouldn't rely on getting a certain piece, or at least as often as you can.

[eHalcyon]

I recommend buying them in the release order but skipping Catapult and The Princess & The Dragon, because Catapult is just retarded and The Princess & The Dragon is very swingy and the Dragon is completely irrelevant most of the time. It's worth noting that games can take easily 6+ hours if you add a lot of expansions, though, so if you don't like long games, it's probably a good idea to buy just the two first expansions.

EDIT: I don't think Carcassonne is that much luck-driven. If you keep getting tiles that you don't need, you should ask yourself if there is something that you could have done to need those tiles. If your opponent keeps getting tiles that he needs, you should ask yourself if there is something that you could have done to profit from your opponent's tiles as well. Sure, there's a lot of luck involved, but that's also true for Dominion. They're completely different, though; Dominion requires you to plan ahead, Carcassonne doesn't really let you do that a lot. Instead, you have to choose the best play for the current situation.

Carcassonne is extremely tactical, but there is absolutely a lot of luck to it.  You can improve your chances if you know all the possible tile configurations in the game and are able to figure out what's remaining by tracking what is played.  That way, you can figure out the chances of a particular feature getting completed, or if another play can reliably lock out an opponent's completion.  But even so, you need to draw decent tiles.  Making the most of a bad draw is all well and good, but getting lucky matters a lot more.  Maybe you need a corner-city piece to finish a city, and it's a fairly common piece... but you just never find it.  It happens.  Maybe you have a high scoring farm and the opponent is trying to sneak in.  You add tiles to make it almost impossible for them to connect... and they draw the one single tile that fits.  I've seen that happen too.

It's a light game though, so it's not a big deal.  I just prefer some strategy rather than pure tactics.

[Teproc]

I agree about the luck factor. Similar to Puerto Rico, you can't decide at the start of the game "I'm going to make a huge city and score big while blocking everyone else from joining." Every turn is a short term plan, and you shouldn't rely on getting a certain piece, or at least as often as you can.

I would definitely not put Puerto Rico and Carcassonne on the same level, and I kinda disagree here. Carcassonne is, as you say, a tactical game, whereas Puerto Rico is a strategical game, ie long term planning is the key. Sure, you have tactical decisions are best, but your early buildings/plantations are going to set you in a path that will be very different from other players potentially. There is very little luck in PR, the only luck factor are the plantations, and even that is somewhat mitigated.