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Author Topic: Let's talk about Golem (v2.0)  (Read 25045 times)

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KingZog3

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2014, 01:03:53 pm »
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I find that Golem's usefulness derives as much from the fact that it always finds actions as well as the increased cycling.

It is not at all uncommon to play a Golem, play 2 action cards it finds, clean-up and shuffle and find the Golem in your next hand.

This is quite true. Especially if you have 2 Golems or more. I think Colony is the best enabler for Golem, as Platinum and the longer game allow for the use of Golem to it's fullest. I also think Golem is more a substitute for draw than for actions.
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ConMan

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2014, 05:01:05 pm »
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Question: Is there any card that you would want to play every turn so badly that you'd build a Golem+Scheme+X deck?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2014, 05:08:45 pm »
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Question: Is there any card that you would want to play every turn so badly that you'd build a Golem+Scheme+X deck?

As in a deck that only had those three Action cards? Tough call. Maybe Mountebank. There's less of a chance that the Curses are already gone then with other Cursers and even afterward it still does some damage.
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AdamH

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2014, 05:31:23 pm »
+1

Question: Is there any card that you would want to play every turn so badly that you'd build a Golem+Scheme+X deck?

The only thing I can think of is possession...

Edit: and with mountebank, I'd prefer to just buy more mountebanks or schemes rather than get a Golem
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 05:33:36 pm by AdamH »
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silverspawn

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2014, 05:49:27 pm »
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i dont think golem/mountebank is a thing. at least not early. the card snowballs too hard.

but in a colony game, golem/golem/sheme/sheme/counting house might work. always sheme both golems on top. it's not a guaranteed colony, but if you have a huge deck it makes it very likely.

LastFootnote

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2014, 05:50:11 pm »
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Question: Is there any card that you would want to play every turn so badly that you'd build a Golem+Scheme+X deck?

The only thing I can think of is possession...

Edit: and with mountebank, I'd prefer to just buy more mountebanks or schemes rather than get a Golem

Good call. There are definitely cards I'd like to play every turn, but probably not at the expense of having other Actions in my deck.
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dondon151

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2014, 07:54:49 pm »
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I don't get the impression that Golem works very well in specific "combos." From my experience, it's the most useful in really messy decks.

If the engine is so fragile that it doesn't survive without Golem... it will still be pretty fragile when you have Golem.

At one point, we thought this about Throne Room, too.
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ConMan

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2014, 10:42:10 pm »
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I don't get the impression that Golem works very well in specific "combos." From my experience, it's the most useful in really messy decks.
That's what I thought, which gives further credence to the suggestions so far - Mountebank, Possession and Counting House are all cards that tend to show up in messy deck games (the first two because they cause the messiness directly or indirectly, the third because it doesn't usually work well outside of particularly nasty decks).
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Marcory

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2014, 12:58:50 am »
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Golem and Goons works decently. You only get 2 goons per turn, so you don't get the quadratic effect as much, but you can buy lots of extra coppers that Goons will skip over. And the Goons themselves will give you the coins when you have a potion in hand to buy more Golems, while you can happily discard coppers when you get Gooned yourself.
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Davio

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2014, 02:14:36 am »
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Question: Is there any card that you would want to play every turn so badly that you'd build a Golem+Scheme+X deck?

The only thing I can think of is possession...

Edit: and with mountebank, I'd prefer to just buy more mountebanks or schemes rather than get a Golem
Yeah, Possession is a good candidate since you'll be getting the Potion anyway.
So on your way to Possession, you can likely pick up the Golem.
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Smartie

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2014, 09:35:45 pm »
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Generally, I think golem are exceptionally good when u are playing alt vps as the dominant strategy. For example, without +cards, I find golem+goons or golem+bishops really good combos. The other one I think that has good potential is golem and tunnel, as it can reliably cycle your deck and allow gold to be drawn at the next turn. Lastly, with attackers, I really do think it is a pretty strong card as you are likely to use these attackers morw often, considering that the opponent will likely go for attackers against you also. However, as stated, golem is quite expensive so I usually go for them at the 3rd shuffle. Overall, good article!  :P
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Davio

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2014, 02:12:23 am »
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Golem + Tunnel as a standalone combo is not that great. Golem is expensive so you might as well buy some decent stuff before you get to Golem. Just going BM and waiting until you get the Golem to buy Tunnels seems pretty slow.
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AdamH

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Re: Let's talk about Golem
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2014, 02:14:22 pm »
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If the engine is so fragile that it doesn't survive without Golem... it will still be pretty fragile when you have Golem.

At one point, we thought this about Throne Room, too.

This is a good point and I think a good thing to talk about. I can think of plenty of reasons that make sense in my mind why people would think this about Throne Room and why it isn't actually true. I can think of plenty of reasons why people (including myself) would think this about Golem, but no reasons why it would not be true. Can anyone shine some light on this for me?

...also, I edited the OP with some stuff -- it seems the expectation is for the OP to be valuable and I know a lot of times I'll just read the OP and skip a lot of the discussion. Most of the point of this thread is the discussion so I'll do my best to capture that and contain it within the OP. Feedback is most welcome.
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DG

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Re: Let's talk about Golem (v2.0)
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2014, 03:40:33 pm »
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Quote
Question: Is there any card that you would want to play every turn so badly that you'd build a Golem+Scheme+X deck?

I did put a golem-scheme deck into WanderingWinder's sim challenge, best deck using any five kingdom cards of your choice. It was competitive against a variety of excellent decks, particularly considering how bad/slow people think golems are.
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Davio

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Re: Let's talk about Golem (v2.0)
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2014, 05:10:04 am »
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Quote
Question: Is there any card that you would want to play every turn so badly that you'd build a Golem+Scheme+X deck?

I did put a golem-scheme deck into WanderingWinder's sim challenge, best deck using any five kingdom cards of your choice. It was competitive against a variety of excellent decks, particularly considering how bad/slow people think golems are.
I guess the hard part is: When do you buy the Potion if you need it specifically for Golem?
And what do you do on your way there? Do you fill your deck with mediocre actions?

I guess Golem is a pretty strategic card because answers to these kinds of questions are not that clear.

I mean, I like Golem and I think it's a pretty good card, it's just hard to judge its usefulness from time to time. It's one of those cards where you have this feeling that you're always losing to it when your opponent goes for it - mistakenly in your view. But when you go for it, it never seems to work out.

With regards to buying the Potion, maybe we have to ask ourselves simply this if we think about buying it: Would I buy a Curse this turn if it gives me a shot at getting King's Court next shuffle or the shuffle after that one? If the answer is yes, buying that Potion could be a good deal. Of course Potion is no Curse and Golem is no King's Court (Potion is obv better than Curse while I find Golem slightly weaker than KC, not much though). And you can use the Potion more often to buy more Golems.
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