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[greatexpectations]

The masses have cried out for a Kingdom Design Challenge, and who are we to deny the masses!

DominionStrategy.com and f.DS are proud to announce the 2014 Kingdom Design Challenge, the 3rd iteration to date, following the 2011 and 2012 contests.

The contest rules and entry form can be found below. All rules are subject to change by contest organizers as necessary. Feel free to discuss the contest or ask for clarifications on any rules!

1. Starting today (February 4) we will accept Kingdom submissions. Submissions close March 22, 2014, though we reserve the right to adjust that date as necessary to align with the GokoDom tournament. Information about your submission might be made public after the conclusion of the competition.
2. Kingdom is defined as a set of 10 Dominion cards to be used in a game of the Grand Final. Beyond the following conditions, your Kingdom is no other constraint.

• If your setup includes Young Witch, please choose a Bane card.
• Please also specify whether Colonies / Platinum or Shelters are included. If your kingdom includes Colonies / Platinum then your Kingdom should include at least one Prosperity Kingdom card. If your kingdom includes Shelters then it should include at least one Dark Ages Kingdom card.
• Your kingdom may have any number of Alchemy cards.

3. Kingdoms may include any published Dominion card including the Promotional Cards and the recently released Guilds expansion. Submissions with fan-made cards will automatically be rejected. Please ensure that you have spelled your submissions correctly and that you are not confusing two separate Kingdom cards.
4. Kingdoms can be submitted at the form located here or below. We require entrants to be registered on the forum. Submissions from unregistered entrants will not be considered. If you participate, please attempt to access your account regularly or edit your your account settings to forward messages to your email address. We need a reliable way to contact you with any questions or issues that may arise.
5. Each entrant may submit up to 10 kingdoms. If you submit more than 10 kingdoms then only the first 10 kingdoms will be considered. Only submit your best!
6. We will select at least seven Kingdoms which are expected to be used for the GokoDom III Finals. Due to potential Goko card ownership issues with the finalists we can't guarantee that all finalist Kingdoms will be played during the finals. However, if a kingdom is not used for the finals it will still be on the final ballot for community voting. We will not announce the Kingdoms until the final begins.
7. After the final, voters will be able to vote for their favorite of the seven (or more) Kingdoms. That poll will close one week from the end of the Grand Final; at that point, whoever submitted the winning Kingdom will also receive a physical copy of any Dominion expansion.
8. You may submit Kingdoms with any intent, and the voters can select whichever Kingdom they like for any reason. That being said, in selecting the final Kingdoms, judges will look for Kingdoms that can promote future discussion. The ideal Kingdom will encourage diverse strategies and tactics, have no clear dominant approach, and emphasize skill over luck. The finalists from the previous KDC can be found here.

[Awaclus]

I think the form didn't work on Opera, but just in case I have submitted the same kingdom three times: please don't count that as three submissions.

[greatexpectations]

I think the form didn't work on Opera, but just in case I have submitted the same kingdom three times: please don't count that as three submissions.

no worries, we won't count it against you. mistakes happen. if you or anyone else has any issues you can always leave a note in the comment field as well. and if we had any questions or problems we can always shoot you a PM too.

[manthos88]

I think i submitted my Kingdom twice by mistake. If so, please make it count as 1 submission. It was all done by mistake. My apologies.

[MarkowKette]

I submitted a kingdom and now after some more testplay i want to change one or maybe two cards for some balance fine-tuning.
Is there a way to remove a submission, or do i just submit the "better version" aswell as a second kingdom?

[Polk5440]

I submitted a kingdom and now after some more testplay i want to change one or maybe two cards for some balance fine-tuning.
Is there a way to remove a submission, or do i just submit the "better version" aswell as a second kingdom?

Probably, submit again and make a note in the description what kingdom you are replacing.

It is a good idea to test the kingdoms before submitting - there's no rush to submit, either. The deadline is next month.

[greatexpectations]

looks like there are 35 submissions so far. there is only about a month left to submit so keep em coming!

[shark_bait]

looks like there are 35 submissions so far. there is only about a month left to submit so keep em coming!

Come on F.DS brain trust.  Let's get some more in.  They don't have to all be intricate 10 kingdom card engines.  In fact they don't even have to be engines.  I seem to recall (or I'm just pulling this one out of my ***) from one of the finalists in a past year said that the constant complexity of the kingdoms was a bit much and that sometimes you just want to play a more big money game.  Well you guys can submit BM games too!  There are plenty of Kingdom cards out there that really have their niche in BM games and I'd love to see some kingdoms utilize that design space.  Let's keep them coming!

[Mic Qsenoch]

looks like there are 35 submissions so far. there is only about a month left to submit so keep em coming!

Come on F.DS brain trust.  Let's get some more in.  They don't have to all be intricate 10 kingdom card engines.  In fact they don't even have to be engines.  I seem to recall (or I'm just pulling this one out of my ***) from one of the finalists in a past year said that the constant complexity of the kingdoms was a bit much and that sometimes you just want to play a more big money game.  Well you guys can submit BM games too!  There are plenty of Kingdom cards out there that really have their niche in BM games and I'd love to see some kingdoms utilize that design space.  Let's keep them coming!

I was the one who complained a bit, and I was probably just being a sore loser. My main issue was that a few boards felt similar (a couple draw-to-X, maybe a couple Goons boards). There's also a tendency to create a board that has "everything" for an engine (i.e. draw, actions, buy, etc.). The most fun engine boards are the ones where some of those pieces are hard to come by, but you make it work anyway.

It's also very hard to design a board with a high level of card interaction that also has nontrivial "strategic" decisions. People seem to design these boards by thinking about card interactions, and the result is that one or two interactions tends to dominate the strategy space.

[KingZog3]

looks like there are 35 submissions so far. there is only about a month left to submit so keep em coming!

Come on F.DS brain trust.  Let's get some more in.  They don't have to all be intricate 10 kingdom card engines.  In fact they don't even have to be engines.  I seem to recall (or I'm just pulling this one out of my ***) from one of the finalists in a past year said that the constant complexity of the kingdoms was a bit much and that sometimes you just want to play a more big money game.  Well you guys can submit BM games too!  There are plenty of Kingdom cards out there that really have their niche in BM games and I'd love to see some kingdoms utilize that design space.  Let's keep them coming!

I was the one who complained a bit, and I was probably just being a sore loser. My main issue was that a few boards felt similar (a couple draw-to-X, maybe a couple Goons boards). There's also a tendency to create a board that has "everything" for an engine (i.e. draw, actions, buy, etc.). The most fun engine boards are the ones where some of those pieces are hard to come by, but you make it work anyway.

It's also very hard to design a board with a high level of card interaction that also has nontrivial "strategic" decisions. People seem to design these boards by thinking about card interactions, and the result is that one or two interactions tends to dominate the strategy space.

A good way I find to think about it is to include parallel strategies that are both similar in strength, but interesting in their own way. Perhaps one is harder to pull off, but is stronger once set-up.

[greatexpectations]

There's also a tendency to create a board that has "everything" for an engine (i.e. draw, actions, buy, etc.). The most fun engine boards are the ones where some of those pieces are hard to come by, but you make it work anyway.

unfortunately, that is how many of the submissions were designed, and in the end that limits our options in choosing finalists. popular and powerful cards were included in tons of sets, and it really makes things challenging for us. if i had to guess there would probably be a strong correlation between the Qvist rankings and the submission totals. along those lines, there are a handful of cards which already appear quite a few times for the 2014 contest. one card has already made 7 appearances in 35 submissions.

A good way I find to think about it is to include parallel strategies that are both similar in strength, but interesting in their own way. Perhaps one is harder to pull off, but is stronger once set-up.

i would agree, though i think that this is far more difficult than many people realize. in reviewing sets last year i often had the impression that cards were kind of just tacked on as an afterthought to create that parallel strategy. this is where playtesting a couple of times (if possible) might come in handy for some people, to help ensure that the alternate strategies are indeed similar in strength.

[markusin]

Can you confirm if my last kingdom submission went through? I submitted it today through the form embedded to this thread, but the form just went blank after submitting. No confirmation message or anything.

I should have 4 kingdoms submitted in total under the name "markusin".

[soulnet]

I submitted two under "soulnet goko" (my Goko username) instead of "soulnet" (my forum username). Sorry for the stupidity. Should I resubmit?

[greatexpectations]

Can you confirm if my last kingdom submission went through? I submitted it today through the form embedded to this thread, but the form just went blank after submitting. No confirmation message or anything.

I should have 4 kingdoms submitted in total under the name "markusin".

i don't see any entries from you today. i have 3 entries from you total with the last one dated 2/16. the form seems to be working fine, as other submissions have been received today. try it again i guess?

I submitted two under "soulnet goko" (my Goko username) instead of "soulnet" (my forum username). Sorry for the stupidity. Should I resubmit?

nah you are fine, shouldn't be a problem.

[markusin]

Can you confirm if my last kingdom submission went through? I submitted it today through the form embedded to this thread, but the form just went blank after submitting. No confirmation message or anything.

I should have 4 kingdoms submitted in total under the name "markusin".

i don't see any entries from you today. i have 3 entries from you total with the last one dated 2/16. the form seems to be working fine, as other submissions have been received today. try it again i guess?

That's fine. In fact, I'm happy about that because there were changes I wanted to make in the comments section. I'm also glad to hear that my other 3 submissions were received.

I'll try again later.

[WanderingWinder]

So, I don't see this addressed anywhere but: what is the position on publicly discussing our submissions (now, after contest closes, finalists announced... any of those times)?

[greatexpectations]

So, I don't see this addressed anywhere but: what is the position on publicly discussing our submissions (now, after contest closes, finalists announced... any of those times)?

good catch. as far as discussion, i will defer as best as possible to last year's iteration. i would ask that public discussion be limited until the finalists are announced, especially because the sets might be used for GokoDom on some level. if anyone can provide compelling reasons otherwise i am open to hearing it, but i see too much potential for discussion to influence other submitters or the judges.

in a mostly unrelated note, i am open to the idea of keeping a public tally of submission totals in this thread (eg greatexpectations has 4 submissions so far, theory has 2, etc) if there is interest out there. it could serve as a verification for submitters that kingdoms were received as well as a way to publicly keep track of how many submissions we have so far.

[Polk5440]

"No discussion" should not deter submitting kingdoms that were reported in game reports or help throughout the year, or variants on them, though.

If I recall, several of the submissions last year were based on those threads.

[greatexpectations]

only a couple more days left for submissions!

[shark_bait]

only a couple more days left for submissions!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Let's see some awesome submissions guys.  This is gonna be sweet!

What's the number at right now?

[greatexpectations]

What's the number at right now?

high 80's at the moment! we should be able to hit 100 by the end, but i think that is still less than half of what we had last year.

[soulnet]

What's the number at right now?

high 80's at the moment! we should be able to hit 100 by the end, but i think that is still less than half of what we had last year.

I am restraining myself to only send what I actually consider really good.

[KingZog3]

What's the number at right now?

high 80's at the moment! we should be able to hit 100 by the end, but i think that is still less than half of what we had last year.

I am restraining myself to only send what I actually consider really good.

Considering you have 10 submissions, put in some that you consider only mildly interesting. I doubt anyone will come up with 10 really interesting, diverse and hard to figure out kingdoms.

[Polk5440]

I would be really sad if there were only 100 submissions of the form: 10 from 10 people. 

[soulnet]

Considering you have 10 submissions, put in some that you consider only mildly interesting. I doubt anyone will come up with 10 really interesting, diverse and hard to figure out kingdoms.

I don't want to do that, it just means more unnecessary work to the judges. I would like people to still want to volunteer to run this kind of thing, and if we make it easy on them by only submitting things that we think are worth looking at, that maximizes the probability of that happening.

I think there are people that have the time and skill to make now or accumulate over the past year 10 really interesting kingdoms, but I am not one of them.

In any case, I may submit one more, I played an interesting combination recently, but it needs some polishing to make it better.

[Ozle]

I would be really sad if there were only 100 submissions of the form: 10 from 10 people. 

I've put in 69....

[WanderingWinder]

Any word on what we ended up with?

[greatexpectations]

Any word on what we ended up with?

- 123 submissions, just over half of the 228 submissions from last year.
- 54 different people submitted at least one entry
- the most submitted card appeared 20 times. that means just about 1 in every 6 kingdom made use of this card. there was one at 18 and one at 17 and it starts to bunch a bit past that.
- the highest submission last year was hamlet at 38, but that included twice as many kingdom submissions and there were two full less expansions to work with.
- 5 different cards received 0 submissions.

we can share more of the data once the contest ends, but that should be enough for starters!

[soulnet]

I bet on Goons for one of the cards included in most submissions.

[Kirian]

There should be some sort of "prize" for the person who can correctly guess all five cards that were left out.

[MarkowKette]

I bet on Goons for one of the cards included in most submissions.

i doubt that goons has so many submissions. It is just so hard to balance it against non-Goons strategies
i bet the cards with 20 submissions are both reaction cards or warehouse
(tunnel, watchtower, market square are my favourites)

[WanderingWinder]

I would guess one of the cards left out would be Black Market - people generally don't like including it because it adds uncontrolled cards to their groomed kingdom.
Envoy, because I expect people would put in smithy instead.
Walled Village - hard to think of a situation where it's relevant vs some other village instead.
(Also notice three promos - people don't have promos as much).
Aaaaaaaaaand, let's see, some do-nothing cards probably. Transmute and Armory?

[DG]

I submitted a kingdom with both transmute and armory. It was a randomly generated kingdom from Goko, as all mine were, and it looked fun.

[Awaclus]

I agree about Walled Village and Black Market, but I'm guessing the other cards are Harvest, Navigator and Secret Chamber.

[Ozle]

Moat

[KingZog3]

Adventurer.

[soulnet]

I agree about Walled Village and Black Market, but I'm guessing the other cards are Harvest, Navigator and Secret Chamber.

Secret Chamber can be REALLY good sometimes (most notably Scrying Pool games), and I think building kingdoms that use non-usually-powerful cards is something that appeals some people.

[-Stef-]

... and I think building kingdoms that use non-usually-powerful cards is something that appeals some people.

Yes it does. I submitted a kingdom that makes a usually very strong card almost worthless, and a usually crappy card is brutally strong.

[KingZog3]

... and I think building kingdoms that use non-usually-powerful cards is something that appeals some people.

Yes it does. I submitted a kingdom that makes a usually very strong card almost worthless, and a usually crappy card is brutally strong.

I agree that those are usually the most interesting kingdoms. I tended to stay away from using very strong cards in my submissions.

[Awaclus]

Secret Chamber can be REALLY good sometimes (most notably Scrying Pool games), and I think building kingdoms that use non-usually-powerful cards is something that appeals some people.

Yeah, it can be really good. In those situations, however, Storeroom fills the same role in a more interesting way.

[markusin]

... and I think building kingdoms that use non-usually-powerful cards is something that appeals some people.

Yes it does. I submitted a kingdom that makes a usually very strong card almost worthless, and a usually crappy card is brutally strong.

The five missing cards are probably totally random cards people just didn't think of or assumed would be too swingy. Maybe something like Tribute or Loan or Mandarin.

@KingZog3 I included Adventurer in one of my submissions. So sorry.

[KingZog3]

@KingZog3 I included Adventurer in one of my submissions. So sorry.

Fine! Royal Seal. No one thinks of Royal Seal.

[markusin]

@KingZog3 I included Adventurer in one of my submissions. So sorry.

Fine! Royal Seal. No one thinks of Royal Seal.

Yeah, maybe Royal Seal, unless someone felt like featuring the Royal Seal/Navigator Synergy.

[WanderingWinder]

Pretty sure I submitted one with Royal Seal. Also at least one with Mandarin. And Tribute.

... and I think building kingdoms that use non-usually-powerful cards is something that appeals some people.

Yes it does. I submitted a kingdom that makes a usually very strong card almost worthless, and a usually crappy card is brutally strong.

I love doing this all the time, but most often, I end up thinking it isn't terribly interesting, because it's too obvious. But when it does work, it's sooo sweet.

[Robz888]

Here, I'll make a bold prediction: Market, the least-vetoed and most middling card in all of Dominion! It neither offends nor excites anyone, and is thus likely to be left out.

[theory]

There should be some sort of "prize" for the person who can correctly guess all five cards that were left out.

The last KDC had only a single card left out: Pearl Diver.  I would be surprised if it wasn't among the five this year.

[Awaclus]

There should be some sort of "prize" for the person who can correctly guess all five cards that were left out.

The last KDC had only a single card left out: Pearl Diver.  I would be surprised if it wasn't among the five this year.

It's my favorite card. Last year, I didn't submit a kingdom.

[markusin]

Here, I'll make a bold prediction: Market, the least-vetoed and most middling card in all of Dominion! It neither offends nor excites anyone, and is thus likely to be left out.

I refrained from making this prediction because I wasn't 100% sure I didn't include it in one of my submissions, but atfer verifying that I also wonder whether Market was included in any submissions.

[Nik]

The number one card that will be left out is...DA DA DA DUM...
SCOUT!
I mean, being the most hated card in Dominion doesn't put you in many Kingdoms...
And don't I get a prize for guessing the top 5...?
2. Secret Chamber
3. Possession
4. Thief
5. Chancellor

[Ozle]

I bet scout is in more than average...

[liopoil]

same with chancellor, and maybe possession. Kingdoms where chancellor can be good are really cool. Also, I bet somebody must have included the highway-market combo, right?

I'll guess Laboratory didn't get very many. Stonemason probably got a ton. I know it was in one of my two submissions.

[ConMan]

I included Scout in both the kingdoms I entered. At least one of them was an ideal Scout board (and yet Scout is probably *still* not the ideal strategy).

[KingZog3]

I can't remember the exact board, but once the best engine was a Scout/harem/Market engine (maybe one other cantrip).

[12thlvldad]

Both Loan and Possession have been entered in submissions.

[greatexpectations]

some other comments:

- one of the five cards without a single submission was pretty easily in the top half of submissions last year.
- totaling the cards from every submission, alchemy and corncucopia somehow have the exact same number of cards submitted. hinterlands, prosperity, and intrigue are all within 6 submissions of each other.
- counting the promos as an expansion, the average kingdom submission would require 5.7 different expansions to play.
- kingdoms with an attack card tended to include another attack card, with 1.7 attack cards per kingdom with at least one.

this should be enough to keep you guys going for a little while. i'm also putting together some numbers for kingdoms with various options (terminal draw, plus buy, alternate VP, kingdom treasures, etc) but that isn't ready for all the options i was planning yet.

[JacquesTheBard]

Drat! Completely forgot my other 9 submissions! Oh well. Next year, I suppose.

[soulnet]

i doubt that goons has so many submissions. It is just so hard to balance it against non-Goons strategies

I agree with your argument, but I would still think people used it. Even if Goons is an obvious choice, there could be multiple ways to build up for Goons that provide different speeds, endgame control, stability and so on. And Goons is also a simple way to leave silly BMs outside the picture, especially if you want to include good BM enablers like Jack.

[Kirian]

And don't I get a prize for guessing the top 5...?

No, no, I suggested you should get a "prize."  There is a significant difference between that and an actual prize.

[Polk5440]

I mean, being the most hated card in Dominion doesn't put you in many Kingdoms...

Don't be so sure....

[manthos88]

How can we vote for the Kingdom submissions?? Is there are a thread somewhere for that? Or has the time for this not come yet??

[greatexpectations]

How can we vote for the Kingdom submissions?? Is there are a thread somewhere for that? Or has the time for this not come yet??

we've got some people currently in the process of reviewing the submissions and trimming them down ~11 submissions. once we hit that point (still a couple of weeks off) the kingdoms will be posted for public comment and vote.

[-Stef-]

Are we going to use these kingdoms in the gokodom finals?
If so, I assume they're secret until that day?

[Polk5440]

Are we going to use these kingdoms in the gokodom finals?
If so, I assume they're secret until that day?

Yes and yes.

[soulnet]

Are we going to use these kingdoms in the gokodom finals?
If so, I assume they're secret until that day?

Yes and yes.

So how is there going to be voting? Just on the winners? Are the creators of the finalists going to be announced?

[Kirian]

Are we going to use these kingdoms in the gokodom finals?
If so, I assume they're secret until that day?

Yes and yes.

So how is there going to be voting? Just on the winners? Are the creators of the finalists going to be announced?

I believe that in past years the voting was in fact after the matches were played.

[Polk5440]

The masses have cried out for a Kingdom Design Challenge, and who are we to deny the masses!
6. We will select at least seven Kingdoms which are expected to be used for the GokoDom III Finals. Due to potential Goko card ownership issues with the finalists we can't guarantee that all finalist Kingdoms will be played during the finals. However, if a kingdom is not used for the finals it will still be on the final ballot for community voting. We will not announce the Kingdoms until the final begins.
7. After the final, voters will be able to vote for their favorite of the seven (or more) Kingdoms. That poll will close one week from the end of the Grand Final; at that point, whoever submitted the winning Kingdom will also receive a physical copy of any Dominion expansion.

We are currently in the process of reviewing the kingdoms. Over the last week, two judges each independently reviewed all of the entries (with creator names hidden) and are in the process of comparing notes. Over the next couple of weeks, at least 3 judges will be discussing/play-testing the strongest 30ish entries and making the lists of finalists. Judges are not participating in GokoDom. As in the past, you could use certain tools to search for clues -- but please, don't do that.

Here's what happened last year (in particular, note that one of the finalists was not used in the tournament, but was on the ballot).

lespeutere streamed the bronze metal match and we all congregated in Iso's lobby to discuss the matches live and see the finalists revealed. It was quite exciting. Hopefully whoever the GokoDom finalists are this year will be able to stream the match. It's a lot of set-up work for them -- but very entertaining for the rest of us.   

[MarkowKette]

Gokodom Playoffs getting started.
Time for some new statistics regarding the contest maybe?
*hope*

[greatexpectations]

Gokodom Playoffs getting started.
Time for some new statistics regarding the contest maybe?
*hope*

i would love to throw out some more statistics! unfortunately, i'm not sure how much i should at this point. i don't want to inadvertently give an advantage to any players in the GokoDom finals by hinting too heavily at what sorts of cards/combinations made appearances in the submissions. that said, i can think of something that seems to me pretty safe, even if it isn't the most exciting or informative. here is a distribution of how many expansions are required to construct the submitted kingdoms, counting promos as an expansion.

# of required expansions - frequency of occurence
1 - 0
2 - 0
3 - 6
4 - 12
5 - 37
6 - 35
7 - 29
8 - 4
9 - 0

that said, if there is something specific you or anyone else are curious about let me know and i can take a look.

[Watno]

How many base only sets?

[soulnet]

How many base only sets?

0. It can be derived from the information above.

[florrat]

[Elestan]

Over the next couple of weeks, at least 3 judges will be discussing/play-testing the strongest 30ish entries and making the lists of finalists.

if there is something specific you or anyone else are curious about let me know and i can take a look.

Can you post a list of the entrants whose sets made the strongest 30ish?

[MarkowKette]

Gokodom Playoffs getting started.
Time for some new statistics regarding the contest maybe?
*hope*

i would love to throw out some more statistics! unfortunately, i'm not sure how much i should at this point. i don't want to inadvertently give an advantage to any players in the GokoDom finals by hinting too heavily at what sorts of cards/combinations made appearances in the submissions. that said, i can think of something that seems to me pretty safe, even if it isn't the most exciting or informative. here is a distribution of how many expansions are required to construct the submitted kingdoms, counting promos as an expansion.

# of required expansions - frequency of occurence
1 - 0
2 - 0
3 - 6
4 - 12
5 - 37
6 - 35
7 - 29
8 - 4
9 - 0

that said, if there is something specific you or anyone else are curious about let me know and i can take a look.

Hmm i don't think anyone of the finalist can do specific preparations for the finals based on the information in this thread as long as it doesn't get too specific.
I mean less than 10% of the kingdoms that were entered will be played in the finals.
So if you know something like Scout has been entered 5 times or 65% of the kingdoms has some alternative VP card in it that's nothing that gives you an advantage for the finals.

So i think questions like how many Kingdoms don't include any village, or don't include any form of trashing are safe to answer here.

[Polk5440]

Over the next couple of weeks, at least 3 judges will be discussing/play-testing the strongest 30ish entries and making the lists of finalists.

if there is something specific you or anyone else are curious about let me know and i can take a look.

Can you post a list of the entrants whose sets made the strongest 30ish?

Playtested candidates will be released in a similar fashion to last year after the finalists are announced and GokoDom final has been played.

[Polk5440]

Hmm i don't think anyone of the finalist can do specific preparations for the finals based on the information in this thread as long as it doesn't get too specific.
I mean less than 10% of the kingdoms that were entered will be played in the finals.
So if you know something like Scout has been entered 5 times or 65% of the kingdoms has some alternative VP card in it that's nothing that gives you an advantage for the finals.

So i think questions like how many Kingdoms don't include any village, or don't include any form of trashing are safe to answer here.

I think I am going to have to disagree.

[greatexpectations]

Hmm i don't think anyone of the finalist can do specific preparations for the finals based on the information in this thread as long as it doesn't get too specific.
I mean less than 10% of the kingdoms that were entered will be played in the finals.
So if you know something like Scout has been entered 5 times or 65% of the kingdoms has some alternative VP card in it that's nothing that gives you an advantage for the finals.

So i think questions like how many Kingdoms don't include any village, or don't include any form of trashing are safe to answer here.

I think I am going to have to disagree.

you might be right Markowkette but the issue is that i can't really say for sure. without a pretty high level of confidence that what i say won't influence the play in the finals i think it is better off to err on the side of caution. that is all information we can (and will) gladly share after the fact though.

[Kirian]

Hmm i don't think anyone of the finalist can do specific preparations for the finals based on the information in this thread as long as it doesn't get too specific.
I mean less than 10% of the kingdoms that were entered will be played in the finals.
So if you know something like Scout has been entered 5 times or 65% of the kingdoms has some alternative VP card in it that's nothing that gives you an advantage for the finals.

So i think questions like how many Kingdoms don't include any village, or don't include any form of trashing are safe to answer here.

I think I am going to have to disagree.

Same here.  Just with those two pieces of information, Celestial Chameleon would be able to empty the supply of Kingdoms in 2 matches.  Including all the non finalists.

[Kirian]

Also:  I just realized that this content is actually a game of Kingdom Builder.

[Polk5440]

Quick Update: Playtesting is complete and the judges have deliberated. There will be 8 Finalists (8 kingdoms, each submitted by a different person). If the GokoDom championship match goes longer than 8 games, we will dip into the Honorable Mentions. If the match ends in fewer than 8 games, all 8 Finalists will still be eligible to be voted upon.

When the finalists are posted, would people be interested in seeing the judges' test games linked in addition to the GokoDom medal matches?

greatexpectations is cleaning up our spreadsheet, and hopefully we will be able to post our comments for all the kingdoms we playtested.

[Elestan]

There will be 8 Finalists (8 kingdoms, each submitted by a different person).

Did it just happen to turn out that the top eight were all from different people, or were finalists limited to one per person?

[soulnet]

When the finalist's are revealed, may we also learn the usernames of their creators (without disclosing the association between kingdoms and people, to avoid names influencing the vote)?

[KingZog3]

When the finalist's are revealed, may we also learn the usernames of their creators (without disclosing the association between kingdoms and people, to avoid names influencing the vote)?

We could see the usernames after the vote.

[Polk5440]

There will be 8 Finalists (8 kingdoms, each submitted by a different person).

Did it just happen to turn out that the top eight were all from different people, or were finalists limited to one per person?

We tried to have each final kingdom come from a different person. It was one of several criteria we used while putting together the final list of kingdoms after playtesting, not a hard and fast requirement. I'll be more explicit about the judging process in the next couple of days.

[Polk5440]

When the finalist's are revealed, may we also learn the usernames of their creators (without disclosing the association between kingdoms and people, to avoid names influencing the vote)?

Yes.

[Elestan]

We tried to have each final kingdom come from a different person. It was one of several criteria we used while putting together the final list of kingdoms after playtesting, not a hard and fast requirement. I'll be more explicit about the judging process in the next couple of days.

Just MHO, but I'd rather not see good (or great!) kingdoms disqualified just because they came from the same designer.  Could the sets that were only cut because of this rule still be eligible for the final vote, even if they won't be used in the final match?

Also, has the form of the final vote been decided?  After all, we're used to using some pretty sophisticated matching and ranking algorithms to determine the best player.  A one-round, one-vote selection process for the best Kingdom seems too crude and simple for this crowd.  :-)

[Polk5440]

We tried to have each final kingdom come from a different person. It was one of several criteria we used while putting together the final list of kingdoms after playtesting, not a hard and fast requirement. I'll be more explicit about the judging process in the next couple of days.

Just MHO, but I'd rather not see good (or great!) kingdoms disqualified just because they came from the same designer.  Could the sets that were only cut because of this rule still be eligible for the final vote, even if they won't be used in the final match?

There were no sets cut only because of the desire to have a variety of people. That is what I mean when I say it was not a hard and fast requirement.