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Author Topic: What cards would you happily do without?  (Read 25077 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2014, 08:24:24 pm »
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Quote
I think jaybeez's point is that you buy Mandarin because of the on-gain ability and Count because of the trashing, so they are totally different cards. I mean, that's like saying that Silver is strictly better than Ill-Gotten Gains once you have it, and claiming that IGG shouldn't exist because of that. And I'm pretty sure that Noble Brigand vs. Thief is much closer to being strictly better.

i know that, i didn't say mandarin is strictly worse. still, there's something to it, because once you have it, mandarin is truly, entierly worse than count, and that's unique in the game, whether that's a problem is debatable. igg is not actually worse than silver, there are quite a few edge cases where you rather have igg, including every trash for benefit, bank, gardens, and counterfeit.

and thief at least has some rare platinum games in which it shines

LastFootnote

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2014, 08:39:33 pm »
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and thief at least has some rare platinum games in which it shines

Even though Thief rarely shines, there are some games where it's very important. I played an IRL, Base Set only 3-player game recently where the Thief pile sold out. There was no virtual Coin on the board. One player bought 5 or 6 of them. I ended up winning because I built an engine that played my two Thieves more often and more effectively than my opponents (through Spies and Throne Rooms). Importantly, if I hadn't bought those two Thieves, there is no way I would have won. Any Treasures I bought would have been gone before I got to use them. I had to supplement that with Treasures stolen from my opponents.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 09:28:27 am by LastFootnote »
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markusin

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2014, 08:58:28 pm »
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I'm concerned that there's insufficient hating on tournament in here.

I love Tournament. The luck factor can be infuriating, but I recently played a Colony game where neither player ever took a Colony/Platinum due to Tournament and related factors. That's too interesting to see gone from the game.
I personally like Tournament as well, but I feel that it isn't too newb-friendly. Basically, players need to play with Tournament often before they can get a good feel for it.

It can really spice up Colony games though.
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Asper

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2014, 06:49:04 am »
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Quote
I think jaybeez's point is that you buy Mandarin because of the on-gain ability and Count because of the trashing, so they are totally different cards. I mean, that's like saying that Silver is strictly better than Ill-Gotten Gains once you have it, and claiming that IGG shouldn't exist because of that. And I'm pretty sure that Noble Brigand vs. Thief is much closer to being strictly better.

i know that, i didn't say mandarin is strictly worse. still, there's something to it, because once you have it, mandarin is truly, entierly worse than count, and that's unique in the game, whether that's a problem is debatable. igg is not actually worse than silver, there are quite a few edge cases where you rather have igg, including every trash for benefit, bank, gardens, and counterfeit.

and thief at least has some rare platinum games in which it shines

IGG isn't a very good comparison, but think Masterpiece instead. It's worse than Silver in any respect once it's in your deck, and still nobody would claim it's actually always worse.

Mandarin has a unique ability that makes buying it for this effect alone worthwile sometimes, just like Inn. Buying a Mandarin usually (discard attacks aside) means you can spend just as much or more money next turn, which not only allows set-ups for expensive buys but also lowers it's opportunity cost by a lot (for example, you can open Mandarin and still buy Count after that).
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2014, 09:40:10 pm »
+1

Hahaha! I wouldn't give up any of them, with the possible exception of Scout. Maybe Rebuild.

Here is a love letter to the cards others hate:

1. Chancellor: Better than silver if the only terminal, teaches you the value of a good reshuffle. I've played a fun Chancellor-BM game before. Obsolete if the more interesting Scavenger is on the board, but that doesn't happen too often.
2. Tournament: Overpowered? Perhaps. Still, I've always had a weakness for its lovely $4 Peddler effect. It helps you build up your deck in an excellent way.
3. Coppersmith: It might go 20 games without working, but the 21st will be a joy. Especially with King's Court. And speaking of which...
4. King's Court: Overpowered? Certainly. But much like Chapel, and unlike Rebuild, it's overpowered in a synergistic way. It makes your other cards more interesting, not less. Pawn matters more when KC is on the board. So does Coppersmith. The only cards that would be left out of an engine due to KC's presence are the villages, but even then the Festivals and Worker's Villages and Plazas still benefit tremendously from it.
5. Goons: Just as synergistic as KC, maybe more. It's nice as a BM card, if you play 1 a turn. It's only obnoxiously powerful in an engine... but it works best in engines that are strong to begin with! It's a non-drawing terminal, which makes the villages more important. It's a discard attack, which makes draw more important. Heck, the mid-game copper purchases make trashing continue to serve a purpose in your deck up until the very end! Once again, it's OP, but highly synergistic.
6. Possession: It's... actually kinda awful if you lose to this, especially with a megaturn deck.

Okay, so maybe Possession really does suck. Still, I'd keep most of Dominion's cards. I'd gladly keep them!
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serakfalcon

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2014, 12:15:59 am »
+1

My list is kind of different partially because most of the hated on cards are either swingy a la tournament or very technical a la rebuild / possession. To be honest I like both swingy and technical stuff, so the cards I find boring are the ones I rarely use and extremely rarely contribute to a productive deck.

The cards I dislike the most:
Mostly the cards I dislike are cards that do little to change the game, are rarely useful and in general only make the kingdom have '1 slot less' in terms of options.

1) Scout: for being Scout. Seriously Scout.
2) Woodcutter: Worse than silver if it weren't for the +Buy, which is so rarely useful that I really wouldn't mind not having it.
3) Chancellor: good card management allows you to control the reshuffle enough that chancellor rarely makes a difference, in general it is a terminal silver.

Hated on cards I love:

Tournament, i love the rush for provinces, even if it is swingy.
Possession: Possession takes everything about Dominion and turns it on it's head. It is a very technical card and a lot of fun to play with, once you realize that your deck isn't your deck and your opponent's deck isn't their deck. it's all very zen, really.
Masquerade: I have no idea why anyone would dislike masquerade. its one of the best anti-junkers and forces your opponent to keep some junk in their deck lest they be forced to give up a good card (If you're frustrated about passing a good card it's because you didn't understand this point: You can't go ultra-thin if your opponent is relying on masquerade). In short, it's a great card for technical playing.
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itchiko

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2014, 09:32:11 am »
+1

I could do without Black Market because it is:
1) Badly worded (buy phase in the middle of an action phase)
2) Unfair (Fair being determined by both player having the same game play opportunity)
But Mostly:
3) Unplayable in IRL once you have all the extension (All the setup rules for it are really really silly)

I also really hate Tournament but the card is probably fine and should stay, I will just continue to hate it with a passion and lose every board it is on.
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