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Author Topic: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur  (Read 1879 times)

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yed

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Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« on: January 16, 2014, 01:30:26 pm »
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Moat, Workshop, Silk Road, Counterfeit, Festival, Haggler, Laboratory, Mine, Saboteur, King's Courthttp://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140116/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1389896539477.txt

I have played Workshop-Silk Road. Perry tried to build some engine bud bought Festival (for +buy) and/or Saboteur late and no Counterfeit. Did I won because of that or is Workshop-Silk Road best here? At the beginning I also considered going for KC-Saboteur engine.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 01:32:47 pm by yed »
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Warfreak2

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Re: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 01:43:11 pm »
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I think the engine should win here. The opening has to be a rush to Counterfeit to trash early. Festival is irrelevant to the engine - KC/KC gives better +actions, and Haggler gives better +buy. It's a race between reliable KC/Saboteur and piling out the Estates, but I think the engine player should win that race.

Edit: wow, your opponent opened Silver/Silver/King's Court, what a combo that is.
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KingZog3

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Re: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 02:07:18 pm »
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Engine without question. KC+Lab+Sab+Counterfeit+Haggler. That's everything and engine needs, and you may be even (most likely actually) be able to to KC 2 sabs per turn.
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soulnet

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Re: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 02:17:31 pm »
+1

+So, what do you open for the engine? I like Silver/Moat better than Silver/Silver. I am not sure about openning Workshop to pick up Moats, but I think definitely ad+ding Moats at some point (even if not mirroring, although do it more agressively in a mirror to avoid Saboteur and deny the opponent protection against your own Sab's).

Moat is more or less the same as Silver for reaching $5, cycles more and is better once you have Counterfeit to connect. Terminal collision is not a problem, since we will be loading up on KCs and the only terminal we want early is Haggler, and we probably want only one, MAYBE two. And we probably already have KC+Lab at the point in which collisions would cause problems.

For the endgame, Worskshop may be like a terminal $4 with +Buy (to pile out Silk Roads or Estates).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 02:18:56 pm by soulnet »
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Awaclus

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Re: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 02:18:41 pm »
+1

Without Saboteur, I would go for Silk Road/Workshop for sure, but Saboteur is pretty effective against SR/Workshop. Engine is probably the better option, and you definitely want an early Counterfeit for that.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 04:07:17 pm »
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Workshop/Silk Road is too slow to compete with the engine here. I don't think it's even close. The uncontested engine here empties all VP in 15-16 turns.
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pg

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Re: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2014, 12:02:55 am »
+1

I was completely lost this game.

I remember opening silver-silver-KC, and being super embarrassed about it  :-[. I was thinking that the key was to get to 3+ KC ASAP and start sabotaging , and then when I got 7 on the first shuffle, I wasn't sure if I could turn it down. I knew it would be bad for one more shuffle, but hoped that after that I'd have enough actions to make it reasonable, and I knew that eventually the key would be to get many as quickly as possible.  If I had to make the same choice again (after a silver-silver opening), I'd pick up haggler. What do you guys think about haggler vs. kc vs. counterfeit here? Obviously I prefer to get 2 5s on the first shuffle, but with 7/3 I'm not sure what to do.

Silver/Moat is almost certainly better than silver/silver. I probably just completely didn't consider it. I don't think that workshop is good though: I think getting to the 5s is really the priority.

I don't know if you need festival for the engine most of the time, but this game I needed both +buys and money for buying multiple provinces in order to catch up. Festival was the only way to have a chance there.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2014, 12:47:45 am »
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I'd probably have gotten counterfeit with that $7, and and counterfeit and haggler give you all the +buy you need, I don't think festival is necessary at all.
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Warfreak2

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Re: Workshop-Silk Road or KC-Saboteur
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2014, 05:09:07 am »
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Against workshop/silkroad, you actually don't need to double province. Once your kc/sab is up, your opponent won't maintain more than 11vp in his deck - 11 estates at max. 2 provinces is all you need, in total.

Edit: i guess moat complicates it, but not by much. Your opponent's deck will be too fat to reliably draw one.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 05:10:58 am by Warfreak2 »
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