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[A Drowned Kernel]

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140113/log.51102f16e4b0fb53a9f92227.1389615777602.txt

Kingdom: Transmute, Stonemason, Market Square, Wishing Well, JoAT, Procession, Scout, Duke, Governor, Adventurer

It's probably not actually the optimal strategy- my opponent's decision to start Processioning Governors with Adventurer on the board seems like a big mistake to me, and I'm pretty sure that a more straightforward Governor/MS strategy could empty the Provinces before I can start grabbing Dukes, but MS and Stonemason provide a surprising amount of the support for the Transmute/Duke strategy and I thought I would go for it. Is this something anyone else thinks they would attempt, or did I just luck out?

[KingZog3]

Not sure if it's optimal, but it does seem like a good strategy to me. Governor is strong, and you're probably right about Governor and MS together, but then again that little route of Estate>Gold>Duke/Duchyx2 is pretty nice.

[dahve3d]

Great game, very innovative - those interactions with transmute/market square/stonemason are really nice and definitely help out the duke strategy a lot here, I think it seems pretty solid especially since there's not much in the way of trashing or engine cards on this board, so a province strategy is obviously gonna have a tough time sticking it out to the end against you in a long game. Seem like Governor/MS is just about the only other option what with the remodeling golds for provinces down the stretch, but I bet it's pretty close on average.

[Polk5440]

I would probably go Governor-MS-(Stonemason) because I play it relatively well. I probably would also open Jack-MS if I was going for Governors and pass on the Procession altogether.

The Trasmute- Duke idea is interesting, though. If there were better $4s that you could have floating around in your deck, Transmute-Duke would be stronger because there would be an implicit threat on the remodel, threatening to gain a bunch of Dukes if the Governor player tries to draw two or three times then remodel to finish off the game. As is, the Governor player can pretty safely set up a big final turn making the rush to Provinces a lot easier.

[Kirian]

The Trasmute- Duke idea is interesting, though. If there were better $4s that you could have floating around in your deck...

Jack should be reasonably good support for Duke, right?  And look, it's a situation where Scout is not entirely useless!

[Polk5440]

The Trasmute- Duke idea is interesting, though. If there were better $4s that you could have floating around in your deck...

Jack should be reasonably good support for Duke, right?  And look, it's a situation where Scout is not entirely useless!

So I was thinking about that -- I came to the conclusion that Jack isn't as good as it first appears. Lots of them certainly aren't.

You want to try to play Transmute every turn and also buy MS or Duke/Duchy, so you can't have a bunch of Jacks floating around. One, maybe. And you can probably use it a couple times if you don't draw a Transmute. But when should you pick it up? Open with it? But you probably want Potion ASAP to get your first Transmute. Second shuffle? But you need more market squares, too. Silver's great to hit $5, but it also reduces your chance of SM Gold into green x2 which seems kind of important.

Scout might actually be better because the +1 Action is actually a big deal and you are going to have green floating around... but better than more Market Squares and enough in time to make the Governor player think twice before a mega-turn? I don't know....

A second Potion might actually be better, first. A Scout or two. Maybe a Jack? I guess that's a sizable number of $4s. But is getting them going to slow you down too much?

I guess I don't really have a good feel for this.

[RobertJ]

I was A Drowned Kernel's opponent in this game. I'm sure you are right that I was trying to be a bit too fancy with Procession and that a more straightforward Governor thing would have had a better chance. At the time it seemed as if having a few Adventurers around as remodel targets wouldn't be so bad. In retrospect I didn't have enough Governors to be able to survive trashing them to Procession.

Anyway, it was actually nice to see Transmute/Duke working even though I was on the wrong end of it! Thanks for the game and for posting it here.

[AdamH]

I thought Transmute/Duke wasn't really a thing

But I do know Stonemason/Market Square is a thing.

[luser]

I think here you won because opponent misplayed. The real combo here is stonemason/adventurer/duke. A governor is excellent enabler of that.

I would probably open with silver/silver and aim for governor with possibly with market square in mix. With governor choose +3cards. First time you hit 7 then stonemason 2 governors, then you need just twice hit 8 to stonemasoning 2 adventurers.

With big governor hands its easy to pair stonemason with adventurer/gold->2 duchies/remodeling silver to duchy, you which likely get 6 by turn 10 if opponent does not mirror.

Then apply same strategy with duke split and end game by three-piling stonemasons.

[eHalcyon]

I think here you won because opponent misplayed. The real combo here is stonemason/adventurer/duke. A governor is excellent enabler of that.

I would probably open with silver/silver and aim for governor with possibly with market square in mix. With governor choose +3cards. First time you hit 7 then stonemason 2 governors, then you need just twice hit 8 to stonemasoning 2 adventurers.

With big governor hands its easy to pair stonemason with adventurer/gold->2 duchies/remodeling silver to duchy, you which likely get 6 by turn 10 if opponent does not mirror.

Then apply same strategy with duke split and end game by three-piling stonemasons.

Ehh, I prefer Market Square and Gold over Adventurer.

[luser]

I think here you won because opponent misplayed. The real combo here is stonemason/adventurer/duke. A governor is excellent enabler of that.

I would probably open with silver/silver and aim for governor with possibly with market square in mix. With governor choose +3cards. First time you hit 7 then stonemason 2 governors, then you need just twice hit 8 to stonemasoning 2 adventurers.

With big governor hands its easy to pair stonemason with adventurer/gold->2 duchies/remodeling silver to duchy, you which likely get 6 by turn 10 if opponent does not mirror.

Then apply same strategy with duke split and end game by three-piling stonemasons.

Ehh, I prefer Market Square and Gold over Adventurer.

You have problem that gold is too slow and it will not win you duchy split. Money is not very important in this game as points would be mainly gained by double duchy/duke. Having more 6 targets is more important than buying power which you will not use as you should stonemason it anyway.

[luser]

I thought Transmute/Duke wasn't really a thing

But I do know Stonemason/Market Square is a thing.

Also this game is worth of rematch as both players undervalued stonemason here. A better opening here would be steward+stonemasoning 2 market squares. That would likely give a gold on second shuffle and when you will hit second time stonemason 2 market squares again. Stonemason gold or hitting 7 to quickly make journeyman/bazaar engine  Endgame would depend on situation, either 3pile or butcher gold for province and more gold from market squares

[AdamH]

A rematch, you say?!

The opening, well there are a lot of ways to go and I'm not sure what's best. It's a really tough call for when to get Market Squares/Golds, since they are *extremely* useful after you have some good draw going... but turning down any of those delicious 5-cost cards for two Market Squares and a Stonemason that isn't really useful until later is something I would have a hard time doing.

[eHalcyon]

I think here you won because opponent misplayed. The real combo here is stonemason/adventurer/duke. A governor is excellent enabler of that.

I would probably open with silver/silver and aim for governor with possibly with market square in mix. With governor choose +3cards. First time you hit 7 then stonemason 2 governors, then you need just twice hit 8 to stonemasoning 2 adventurers.

With big governor hands its easy to pair stonemason with adventurer/gold->2 duchies/remodeling silver to duchy, you which likely get 6 by turn 10 if opponent does not mirror.

Then apply same strategy with duke split and end game by three-piling stonemasons.

Ehh, I prefer Market Square and Gold over Adventurer.

You have problem that gold is too slow and it will not win you duchy split. Money is not very important in this game as points would be mainly gained by double duchy/duke. Having more 6 targets is more important than buying power which you will not use as you should stonemason it anyway.

Market Square should give you $6 targets more readily than Adventurer.  Market Square for Gold has several advantages:

- Both MS and Gold are more useful in general than Adventurer.
- Gold is just as good as Adventurer when it comes to being a target for Stonemason or Governor.
- MS is a much smaller investment than Stonemason->Adventurer.  You can get it earlier, get it going faster, and it will net you more $6 targets over the course of the game.  Paying $8 for two Adventurers is kind of terrible when you could get Governors instead, or even a Province directly.

MS->Gold is not about the buying power.  It also gets you $6 targets, but it does it faster and more often without requiring as much investment, plus its useful even when it doesn't collide with Stonemason or Governor.