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[Eggplantation]

I am looking to buy a new board game, and would love some suggestions as what to get! Dominion is great, but I also want to try others, and learn a new game with friends (important!) that I haven't invested many, many hours into practicing and reading strategy articles (yet ) and what not.

I have a few requirements:

• Can be played with 2 people
• Each game doesn't go for too long (less than 1.5 hours) but if there are absolute gems that go longer I will definitely consider.
• Has high replay-ability
• Isn't too similar to Dominion (preferably not a deck builder)

I have heard about games like Twilight Struggle and Android: Netrunner (although as I understand, this is a deckbuilder). Are they worth looking into?

What do you recommend?

[Kirian]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9748.0

That thread is a good start!

[Twistedarcher]

Are you looking for a game that's good with 2 but can be used with more, or is a game that's only 2 player good?

[Drab Emordnilap]

Race for the Galaxy!

[blueblimp]

Well since the other thread has it pretty well covered for strategy games, here are a couple non-strategy games to consider.

Set (http://www.setgame.com/) is one of my favourite games. It's a pattern-matching card game that plays in just a few minutes. I wouldn't call it deep, but I've played hundreds (possibly thousands including computer play) of games of it and variants because the core concept is fun and elegant. What's the link to Dominion? Not much directly, but they're both accessible games that keep getting better the more you play them. I also know a lot of people who like both Set and Dominion, so there's a correlation.

Boggle (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1293/boggle) is my favourite word game. It plays in just a few minutes. Like Dominion, the setup for each game is random but equal for all players.

[Eggplantation]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9748.0

That thread is a good start!

Ahh thanks! I had seen that thread before, and was what inspired to ask here. I looked for the thread before writing this, but couldn't find it or remember what it was called. In the end I decided to post this thread because I don't own pretty much any of the games shark_bait does, bar Dominion and am looking for a slightly different type of game (however not heaps different at all, now that I re-look over it). I will definitely give the thread a better look. Thanks for the link!

Are you looking for a game that's good with 2 but can be used with more, or is a game that's only 2 player good?

It needs to be good with at least 2 people, and I don't mind if it is only a 2 player game. More than 2 player is good as well, but not essential.

Thanks for the suggestions blueblimp and Drab Emordnilap! I was thinking of games more like strategy games, but I will definitely consider the others. My girlfriend and I often play scrabble, which I am pretty terrible at, but enjoy. So Boggle might be perfect. Shall check out Race for the Galaxy also!

[Kirian]

Other good 2P non-deck-builders:

Tash-Kalar
Lords of Waterdeep

[qmech]

Android: Netrunner (although as I understand, this is a deckbuilder).

Netrunner is a Living Card Game (LCG), which for gameplay purposes is the same as being a TCG.  So building decks is involved, but it's not incorporated into the game—you build your decks in advance and the game consists of playing them against each other.  I haven't played my Netrunner yet, so can't recommend whether it's worth picking up.  The core set is cheap.

Another cheap game that I've had a lot of play out of is Trans Europa.  This is one of the simplest possible train games: the goal is to link 5 random cities, and the strategy stems from the fact that you all share the same colour of track, so that it's possible to have other people do much of your work for you.  One round plays very quickly (less than 5 minutes between two players who know the rules), so a full game usually consists of many rounds with a score kept based on how far off the loser of the round was from completing their network.  There is a near-identical game called Trans America which I haven't played.

The most famous train game is Ticket to Ride.  It is a longer game than Trans Europa and plays very differently because now you can only use your own routes, and each route you might build has it's own cost (in terms of cards in hand) that you must pay to be able to build it.  In my experience Ticket to Ride goes down better with groups, although I like both.  They each have a lot of replayability as your goals in each game are at least partly randomly determined.

The other two player game I have much experience with is Memoir 44.  This is a light war-themed game (as opposed to a full war game) with a large amount of luck, both in the cards that you draw and the dice rolls that decide battle outcomes.  The replayability comes from the large number of different scenarios that can be set up using the pieces in the box.  If Memoir 44 appeals it's likely to be either because you like the historical aspect (recreate the D-day landings!) or that you're not too old to enjoy moving plastic soldiers around a board.  The main downside of Memoir 44 is that it is strictly 2 player—there are variants for up to 8, but they're essentially just team play with distributed decision making.  It also takes a long time to explain the rules, so it doesn't see much use at big games nights; that said, most of the people I've played it with seem to have been quite taken with it.  So it's a bit of an odd one.

[yuma]

Race for the Galaxy!

second this for sure, complex but pretty good with 2 players

Innovation (at least the base is great for 2 player). this is now my wife's favorite game.

[ftl]

Ill second the recommendation of M44

[mail-mi]

Just got A Fool's Fortune, and that's a really fun 2p game.

[yed]

I second Tash-Kalar and Set

Kingdom Builder

[Teproc]

Kingdom Builder, which is also from Donald X, fits your criterion pretty well. Good wwith 2 to 4 players (5 with the Nomads expansion), very high replayability (the board and scoring system are randomized each game), but very different from Dominion.

Edit : Oh, and it's 45 to 75 minutes to play, depending on the number of players and the setup. Some setups can be AP-inducing, but I don't think I've ever had a game go past 90 minutes.

[shark_bait]

I'd recommend both Kingdom Builder and Stone Age. 

Both are playable and enjoyable with 2 players or up to 4. 

Kingdom Builder has a bit more variety due to the 8 choose 4 and 10 choose 3 mechanics of board construction and victory condition respectively however sometimes the random draw takes away from strategic decisions (although this can be taken into account by your exact settlement placement).  A game of Kingdom builder is around 30-45 minutes for 2 player and around 45-90 for 3/4 player.

Stone Age on the other hand is more tactical with each decision having profound influences on the game.  Variety is more lacking but the greater tactical depth makes up for it.  One thing I love about 2-player Stone Age is the denial mechanic.  This has a strong impact on decision making and makes 2-player better than 3/4 player imo.  You can deny in 3/4 player but it is easier to do in 2-player.  Stone Age is around 45-60 min for 2 Player and 60-90 for 4/4 Player.

[Teproc]

Kingdom Builder does have luck of the draw in it, but
1) It depends on the kingdom ! When you have a lot of "moving" powers (no idea how these are called in english but I hope you get what I'm saying), this helps reduce the impact of the draw a lot, especially horses.
2) You can do the Carcassonne-variant thing, where you draw 3 cards and chose one. Haven't tried it because I think the game would go insanely long in most setups though.

Overall I don't agree that Kingdom Builder is a lighter game than Stone Age, but Stone Age is very good too (haven't played with 2 but I've heard good things).

[popsofctown]

Oh man, I lost my copy of Memoir 44, which suck so much because it's such a blast.

Gosh I hate when I have unsavory flashbacks like this.

[Eggplantation]

Thanks for all the recommendations guys! Thanks a lot, even if I don't mention them in this post. It is great indeed. So it seems Race for the Galaxy, Kingdom builder, Stone Age and Memoir 44 are all pretty popular. I am definitely considering them, and I think I will watch demo's for them because they sound like cool games.

I did watch a bit of a video on Race for the Galaxy, and it looks pretty complex. However I am sure it just takes time to learn it. How would it go in a situation where you are trying to teach friends at a games night?

Also I remember reading LastFootnote's article on the 'Donald X. Variety Mechanic', and realised that I really enjoy games with that too, and is one of the big reasons that I like Dominion so much. It certainly adds a lot of replay-ability, and interesting game set ups. Kingdom builder sounds like it has a lot of this, which makes sense since it was made by Donald X.

Android: Netrunner (although as I understand, this is a deckbuilder).

Netrunner is a Living Card Game (LCG), which for gameplay purposes is the same as being a TCG.  So building decks is involved, but it's not incorporated into the game—you build your decks in advance and the game consists of playing them against each other.  I haven't played my Netrunner yet, so can't recommend whether it's worth picking up.  The core set is cheap.

Thanks for the clarification, that actually changes heaps. Just came back from a family holiday, and my uncle who is awesome, brought a  MTG booster pack box of 36 packs so me and my brother and cousin could do a draft. We had a blast, and now I am really interested in CCG like that. So Android NetRunner might be perfect, since it plays like a TCG without actually having to collect heaps of good cards to make a good deck. Has anyone played it? Can anyone give me insight in how the game plays out, and how fun it is? I shall look up the thread on this too.

EDIT: Also the asymmetrical play of Netrunner intrigues me. Also a downside I can imagine with Netrunner is that it is quite difficult to teach new people, which I would have to do a lot of. How much harder is it to learn than say, Magic?

[Twistedarcher]

Memoir 44 is a good game, and I also like Agricola for 2 players (although it becomes much longer with 4-5 players).

I think RftG is pretty hard to get the first time, at least it was for me -- it's great if you're planning to play it over and over, but if you're going to be playing it with others who play infrequently, I would recommend staying away from it.

Also second the Netrunner recommendation.

[yuma]

I did watch a bit of a video on Race for the Galaxy, and it looks pretty complex. However I am sure it just takes time to learn it. How would it go in a situation where you are trying to teach friends at a games night?

Is the offline AI still available? That is how I learned how to play it before trying to teach it to my wife... I recommend that instead of slogging through a 2 hour game where you all try and figure out how it works....

This is where I was able to get it. I think it is still available until Goko gets it up and running... hahahahahaha.... Ha.... sigh....

[Ratsia]

Since Memoir'44 has been mentioned a few times, I guess it is worth mentioning that it has kind of been made obsolete by a few newer games, at least in terms of mechanics and balance. The newer games in the Command & Colors series, especially C&C Ancients and C&C Napoleonics, are quite a bit more interesting while having the same basic mechanics, and are generally considered better games at least in the sense of BGG ratings. They are somewhat more complex (Napoleonics being more complex than Ancients), but also not so clearly luck-based; to my knowledge Memoir lacks depth for any kind of competitive play and I've heard that the winning stats for the online version are not very promising regarding the skill/luck balance. That said, I could not find any hard evidence right now.

I guess Memoir'44 is still worth trying out if one prefers the WW theme and is happy with a bit lighter action, but otherwise I would recommend C&C Ancients instead. It shouldn't be any harder to learn and it should not take longer to play. Napoleonics is even better, but with the extra complexity and length it enters slightly different competition.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I feel like Race for the Galaxy's rules are very sturdy -- once you know how things work, you _know_ how they work. There's not tons of exceptions to have to know.

[Kuildeous]

I did watch a bit of a video on Race for the Galaxy, and it looks pretty complex. However I am sure it just takes time to learn it. How would it go in a situation where you are trying to teach friends at a games night?

One good thing about RftG is that there are visual aids for everyone. Nearly all of the icons are included on a reference card, and the game comes with multiple copies. I think there might be a couple that require the rulebook, but the gist of the game is pretty much encapsulated in that one card.

Now, expansions are a different matter, as they introduce some new icons. You can probably find a comprehensive list on one sheet at BGG.

[DG]

Race for the Galaxy is good but you ideally an experienced player should explain the symbols to newcomers in the starter games. San Juan is very similar game to RfTG but a lot simpler and underrated.

[Grujah]

EDIT: Also the asymmetrical play of Netrunner intrigues me. Also a downside I can imagine with Netrunner is that it is quite difficult to teach new people, which I would have to do a lot of. How much harder is it to learn than say, Magic?

It's not that hard. Biggest issue is a metric shit tone of terms, and you do need to know them to play the game (mechanics, but also game areas, like Corp's deck/graveyard/hand is RnD, Archive and HQ but Runner's are Stack, Heap and Grip). It is easier, I think, for newbies to play the Runner.

[Narz]

The only 2-player game that's stood the test of time with me is chess.  Very different from dominion.

[eHalcyon]

I am going to appropriate this thread.

What are your thoughts on Love Letter?  Is it worth buying, or would it perhaps be better just to make my own PnP version?  How does it compare to other micro games like Coup or Mascarade, or a game I haven't heard of?

[Teproc]

I like Coup better than Love Letter (haven't played Masquerade), but you really should just try it out to know which one you prefer I think. And for the price, they are worth buying, they'll look much better than PnP (admittedly this is more true of Love Letter than Coup).

[Ozle]

I own citadels which I believe is of that ilk.

As long as your playing with strategic players its great. If you are playing with people who just focus on thier own stuff and the pretty colours then its rubbish

[Watno]

Love Letter is a nice filler, but not really more than that. It works with 2-4 players (but I guess you could squeeze some more in without much (or is it many? Much sounds nicer in my head, but logic tells me it should be many) problems).

Mascarade I played twice. The first time we had like 11 players and it was totally awesome. The second time we were 6 and it was much more meh. If you regularely have huge groups of players (like 8+), I'd absolutely recommend going for this.

I haven't played Coup.

Citadels is quite cool, but it can really drag and have a lot of downtime. I wouldn't really recommend it anymore, there are just other games with the same feel that go much more smoothly.

[eHalcyon]

Citadels seems different to me, in that it felt like a longer kind of game. What games fill the same niche (ultra portable, works for many players)?

[Ozle]

Citadels seems different to me, in that it felt like a longer kind of game. What games fill the same niche (ultra portable, works for many players)?

Incan Gold
Sabouteur?

[Grujah]

Love Letter is a nice filler, but not really more than that. It works with 2-4 players (but I guess you could squeeze some more in without much (or is it many? Much sounds nicer in my head, but logic tells me it should be many) problems).

Much problem. Many problems.

Either is right. I think.

[Watno]

Citadels seems different to me, in that it felt like a longer kind of game. What games fill the same niche (ultra portable, works for many players)?

Definitely Mascarade imo.

[Teproc]

Citadels is definitely a "heavier" game, and it's really not the same kind of game for me. Coup and Love Letter are bluffing games, Citadels is more of a double-guessing (also known as WIFOM) game, if that difference makes sense. It's also much longer (that's the only problem with that game, I highly recommand playing with 7 buildings instead of 8 in Citadels, and even then the game can get up to an hour with 7 or 8 players).

[Tables]

Much problem. Many problems.

Much problem. Many problems. So grammar. Very wow.

[Kirian]

Much problem. Many problems.

Much problem. Many problems. So grammar. Very wow.

Be nice, Tables, or I'll photoshop you onto a Shiba Inu.

Watno, Grujah:  In English the modifiers much and many apply only to collective nouns (mass nouns) and countable nouns (count nouns) respectively.  Since problems are countable, you would say "many problems."  Problem, singular, is never used as a mass noun, so even "much problem" would be wrong.  However, both "much difficulty" and "many difficulties" are allowable because difficulty, singular, is often used as a mass noun.

As far as I can tell, there is no distinction int he Romance languages, but in German this is the different between viel (much) and viele (many).

Similarly, little is the opposite of much, while few is the opposite of many.  Meanwhile, the opposite of both fewer and less is more; more can refer to either type of noun.

[Awaclus]

Citadels seems different to me, in that it felt like a longer kind of game. What games fill the same niche (ultra portable, works for many players)?

The Great Dalmuti.

[Watno]

Watno, Grujah:  In English the modifiers much and many apply only to collective nouns (mass nouns) and countable nouns (count nouns) respectively.  Since problems are countable, you would say "many problems."  Problem, singular, is never used as a mass noun, so even "much problem" would be wrong.  However, both "much difficulty" and "many difficulties" are allowable because difficulty, singular, is often used as a mass noun.

I thought that as well, but it somehow sounded wrong. I'll justv go with "much of a problem" next time.

[blueblimp]

Watno, Grujah:  In English the modifiers much and many apply only to collective nouns (mass nouns) and countable nouns (count nouns) respectively.  Since problems are countable, you would say "many problems."  Problem, singular, is never used as a mass noun, so even "much problem" would be wrong.  However, both "much difficulty" and "many difficulties" are allowable because difficulty, singular, is often used as a mass noun.

I'm not sure I believe that "much problem" is wrong. I'm a native English speaker and I feel like I've heard it somewhere before.

Although internet grammar is often not good, it's interesting to consult Google.
"without much problem": 10,700,000 results
"without many problems": 7,650,000 results
"without much difficulty": 5,920,000 results
"without many difficulties": 502,000 results
So at least on the internet, "without much problem" is actually the most common form by a significant margin.

In books, "without much difficulty" is a clear winner. The others barely register:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=without+much+problem%2Cwithout+many+problems%2Cwithout+much+difficulty%2Cwithout+many+difficulties&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cwithout%20much%20problem%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cwithout%20many%20problems%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cwithout%20much%20difficulty%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cwithout%20many%20difficulties%3B%2Cc0
If we delete "without much difficulty" though, "without much problem" wins over the rest since 1974.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=without+much+problem%2Cwithout+many+problems%2Cwithout+many+difficulties&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cwithout%20much%20problem%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cwithout%20many%20problems%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cwithout%20many%20difficulties%3B%2Cc0

So my guess would be that "without much difficulty" is the preferred form if you're writing, but "without much problem" is okay colloquially and it may be gradually making its way into writing too.

[Twistedarcher]

"Without" much problem sounds horrendous to me -- I'd much rather saying "without much difficulty", followed by "without many problems"

[Ozle]

Just use 'No Problemmo'

Sorted

[Kirian]

Internet grammar is wrong.

Also, the trouble with Google ngram is that the corpus isn't as large as you might like; the corpus contains exactly one instance of "without much problem."  Same for the others except "without much difficulty."

[eHalcyon]

So what kind of game is Mascarade?  I had thought it was a light filler micro game like Love Letter and Coup, but it fits more into the same (slightly heavier) niche as Citadels?

Incan Gold has been on my list for a while too, but I think it might also be a bit lighter than my preference.  Not sure.  Not sure if I ever looked into Saboteur.

The Great Dalmuti is just a climbing game.  Is there anything that really sets it apart from Big Two or President?

[Watno]

To me Mascarade feels like it expands on the fun parts of citadels (the roles) while dropping the stuff that makes it drag (building stuff).
It takes longer longer than Love Letter, about 20-30 minutes I think.
Also as said, you really need a lot more people for it than for Love Letter.

[blueblimp]

Internet grammar is wrong.

I'm more of a descriptivist, so since we're writing on the internet, I consider it okay to use the most common form found on the internet. I understand that is just an opinion, though.

Also, the trouble with Google ngram is that the corpus isn't as large as you might like; the corpus contains exactly one instance of "without much problem."  Same for the others except "without much difficulty."

I don't know if it's showing you different results or what, but for me it shows tons of examples (many pages worth) if I ask it to run the search.

[Donald X.]

"without much problem": 10,700,000 results
"without many problems": 7,650,000 results
"without much difficulty": 5,920,000 results
"without many difficulties": 502,000 results
So at least on the internet, "without much problem" is actually the most common form by a significant margin.

My google is not as generous to "without much problem," whether I click on your link or type it in myself.

"without much problem" -> 1,370,000
"without many problems" -> 7,650,000
"without much difficulty" -> 5,920,000
"without many difficulties" -> 502,000

However! "Without much problem" is actually shorthand for "without much of a problem."

"without much of a problem" -> 62,300,000

[I am, as you may know, a hardcore descriptivist, and no it isn't just an opinion.]

[Kirian]

Also, the trouble with Google ngram is that the corpus isn't as large as you might like; the corpus contains exactly one instance of "without much problem."  Same for the others except "without much difficulty."

I don't know if it's showing you different results or what, but for me it shows tons of examples (many pages worth) if I ask it to run the search.

Hmm... suddenly it does the same for me now too.  However:

My google is not as generous to "without much problem," whether I click on your link or type it in myself.

"without much problem" -> 1,370,000
"without many problems" -> 7,650,000
"without much difficulty" -> 5,920,000
"without many difficulties" -> 502,000

I get numbers exactly in line with Donald's.

However! "Without much problem" is actually shorthand for "without much of a problem."

"without much of a problem" -> 62,300,000

Also, I should have thought of that.

[WanderingWinder]

"without much problem": 10,700,000 results
"without many problems": 7,650,000 results
"without much difficulty": 5,920,000 results
"without many difficulties": 502,000 results
So at least on the internet, "without much problem" is actually the most common form by a significant margin.

My google is not as generous to "without much problem," whether I click on your link or type it in myself.

"without much problem" -> 1,370,000
"without many problems" -> 7,650,000
"without much difficulty" -> 5,920,000
"without many difficulties" -> 502,000

However! "Without much problem" is actually shorthand for "without much of a problem."

"without much of a problem" -> 62,300,000

I get
10,600,000
7,630,000
5,880,000
501,000

which isn't terribly surprising, given that google personalizes search results. Popping it into a second browser gives me the same results, whilst a third gives me results matching blueblimp's. I've really never thought 'number of google results' was a terribly accurate measure of... most anything of note, really.

[I am, as you may know, a hardcore descriptivist, and no it isn't just an opinion.]

See, now I find this interesting. Specifically, what does "no it isn't just an opinion" mean (particularly "it" and "opinion", which is a word in general I've found to not be well-defined or agreed-upon)?

[popsofctown]

Intense f.ds level nitpicking and semantics is goin down.

[Kirian]

Intense f.ds-level nitpicking and semantics is goin' down.

Related but separate adjectives require a hyphen, and elisions require an apostrophe.

[Titandrake]

Intense f.ds level nitpicking and semantics is goin down.

You will never find a more wretched hive of nitpickers and pedantry.

(Minus the wretched part. I can't think of a good replacement for that.)

[Donald X.]

See, now I find this interesting. Specifically, what does "no it isn't just an opinion" mean (particularly "it" and "opinion", which is a word in general I've found to not be well-defined or agreed-upon)?

I was referring to blueblimp saying "but that's just my opinion man" on the topic of whether or not some entity decides what way to use words is best such that everyone else is just wrong.

In that particular case I am confident that no, that is not how language works, language prescriptivists are utterly wrong. [For example the spellchecker doesn't like that word.] However I have learned over the years that it's pointless to argue about, because people will cling to their false beliefs on that topic no matter what you throw in their faces. It's "0.999... = 1" all over again.

blueblimp said, "I understand that is just an opinion, though." My use of "opinion" was referring to his use of it. My understanding of his use of it is that he is asserting 1) that there is no proof behind his position, and 2) that other people disagree with it. ymmv, hth

[blueblimp]

Well, I don't think prescriptivism is entirely wrong. For example, I'm in favour of the correct use of "its" and "it's", because it's confusing to use the wrong one and a bit ugly to readers who notice the mistake. (Also, there's no communication benefit to swapping them, unlike some other contentious uses like using "they" for singular third person.) I believe the most pure descriptivist position would be that "wrong" and "mistake" aren't even meaningful words to use when talking about language.

So I feel I hold a certain position on the spectrum, and I call that an "opinion" because somebody could hold a more prescriptivist position overall and might have good reasons to do so, even if I don't agree with it.

[eHalcyon]

Any other suggestions for very portable games, as well as games that are easy to explain that are still a step up from light filler?  Not necessarily in the vein of Citadels or other games already discussed.

I'm currently considering Libertalia.  It plays up to 6 and it looks like it should be very easy to teach.  It also looks really fun with great depth and replayability, and it has simultaneous selection so it should have little downtime.  The only thing that it misses on is high portability, being another game with a big box.  Thoughts?

[GeoLib]

Any other suggestions for very portable games, as well as games that are easy to explain that are still a step up from light filler?  Not necessarily in the vein of Citadels or other games already discussed.

I'm currently considering Libertalia.  It plays up to 6 and it looks like it should be very easy to teach.  It also looks really fun with great depth and replayability, and it has simultaneous selection so it should have little downtime.  The only thing that it misses on is high portability, being another game with a big box.  Thoughts?

I've found that Forbidden Island is a fun coop game (by the same people as Pandemic, which I haven't played) to play with my less strategically inclined friends. Coops help with the skill gap. It's not terribly complex or deep, but you can do some shuffle management and stuff if you come from a Dominion background.

[eHalcyon]

Any other suggestions for very portable games, as well as games that are easy to explain that are still a step up from light filler?  Not necessarily in the vein of Citadels or other games already discussed.

I'm currently considering Libertalia.  It plays up to 6 and it looks like it should be very easy to teach.  It also looks really fun with great depth and replayability, and it has simultaneous selection so it should have little downtime.  The only thing that it misses on is high portability, being another game with a big box.  Thoughts?

I've found that Forbidden Island is a fun coop game (by the same people as Pandemic, which I haven't played) to play with my less strategically inclined friends. Coops help with the skill gap. It's not terribly complex or deep, but you can do some shuffle management and stuff if you come from a Dominion background.

I think I would pick up Forbidden Desert instead, if I go for that.  I am thinking about it as well.

Edit: fixing some weird grammar.

[GeoLib]

Any other suggestions for very portable games, as well as games that are easy to explain that are still a step up from light filler?  Not necessarily in the vein of Citadels or other games already discussed.

I'm currently considering Libertalia.  It plays up to 6 and it looks like it should be very easy to teach.  It also looks really fun with great depth and replayability, and it has simultaneous selection so it should have little downtime.  The only thing that it misses on is high portability, being another game with a big box.  Thoughts?

I've found that Forbidden Island is a fun coop game (by the same people as Pandemic, which I haven't played) to play with my less strategically inclined friends. Coops help with the skill gap. It's not terribly complex or deep, but you can do some shuffle management and stuff if you come from a Dominion background.

I think if I would pick up Forbidden Desert instead, if I go for that.  I am thinking about it as well.

I haven't heard of that one (though I just looked it up). Forbidden Island is good, though things were clearly not worded as carefully as Dominion and there are some irritating ambiguities (that I think I've cleared up satisfactorily via some internet searching, but are certainly not answerable by just reading the rules).

[Donald X.]

Well, I don't think prescriptivism is entirely wrong. For example, I'm in favour of the correct use of "its" and "it's", because it's confusing to use the wrong one and a bit ugly to readers who notice the mistake. (Also, there's no communication benefit to swapping them, unlike some other contentious uses like using "they" for singular third person.) I believe the most pure descriptivist position would be that "wrong" and "mistake" aren't even meaningful words to use when talking about language.

I don't think its / it's is that confusing; for example in that sentence of yours I would have known what you meant if you had said "because its confusing." Possibly if it were more confusing, people would make the effort to not blow it (I also think that people mostly are blowing it unintentionally, as opposed to "they" where they are using the word they have for a concept) (well what am I saying, some people probably constantly drop apostrophes when texting because work).

I think "wrong/mistake" have plenty of use with regards to language. They just don't apply to things that lots of people intentionally do.

Anyway sorry board game recommendation guys, this is really a topic better suited to the religion / sex / politics / language prescriptivism forum.

[Ozle]

Wall of text

Anyway sorry board game recommendation guys, this is really a topic better suited to the religion / sex / politics / language prescriptivism forum.

Yeah, stop coming round 'ere, taking our threads off topic!!

[Ozle]

Any other suggestions for very portable games, as well as games that are easy to explain that are still a step up from light filler?  Not necessarily in the vein of Citadels or other games already discussed.

I'm currently considering Libertalia.  It plays up to 6 and it looks like it should be very easy to teach.  It also looks really fun with great depth and replayability, and it has simultaneous selection so it should have little downtime.  The only thing that it misses on is high portability, being another game with a big box.  Thoughts?

Is libertalia the pirate game?
I love pirates, reminds me of when I was a kid and my father used to make me walk the plank.

Of course it wasn't a real ship and plank, that would be silly, the plank was the road and the ship was out house. And the real game was working out how to get back inside after daddy had locked the door

Daddy, it's cold outside... And getting dark.
Daddy?

[eHalcyon]

Any other suggestions for very portable games, as well as games that are easy to explain that are still a step up from light filler?  Not necessarily in the vein of Citadels or other games already discussed.

I'm currently considering Libertalia.  It plays up to 6 and it looks like it should be very easy to teach.  It also looks really fun with great depth and replayability, and it has simultaneous selection so it should have little downtime.  The only thing that it misses on is high portability, being another game with a big box.  Thoughts?

Is libertalia the pirate game?
I love pirates, reminds me of when I was a kid and my father used to make me walk the plank.

Of course it wasn't a real ship and plank, that would be silly, the plank was the road and the ship was out house. And the real game was working out how to get back inside after daddy had locked the door

Daddy, it's cold outside... And getting dark.
Daddy?

It is indeed a pirate game.  I'm sorry that your father made you leave the outhouse.  But you'll be alright.  Just keep it all bottled up inside for now.  Go forth in the world and I'm sure you will find a safe place to let it all out.  At worst, you can dig a hole in the ground.

[Watno]

Any other suggestions for very portable games, as well as games that are easy to explain that are still a step up from light filler?  Not necessarily in the vein of Citadels or other games already discussed.

I'm currently considering Libertalia.  It plays up to 6 and it looks like it should be very easy to teach.  It also looks really fun with great depth and replayability, and it has simultaneous selection so it should have little downtime.  The only thing that it misses on is high portability, being another game with a big box.  Thoughts?

I played Libertalia once and found it really fun.

[blueblimp]

Well, I don't think prescriptivism is entirely wrong. For example, I'm in favour of the correct use of "its" and "it's", because it's confusing to use the wrong one and a bit ugly to readers who notice the mistake. (Also, there's no communication benefit to swapping them, unlike some other contentious uses like using "they" for singular third person.) I believe the most pure descriptivist position would be that "wrong" and "mistake" aren't even meaningful words to use when talking about language.

I don't think its / it's is that confusing; for example in that sentence of yours I would have known what you meant if you had said "because its confusing." Possibly if it were more confusing, people would make the effort to not blow it (I also think that people mostly are blowing it unintentionally, as opposed to "they" where they are using the word they have for a concept) (well what am I saying, some people probably constantly drop apostrophes when texting because work).

I think "wrong/mistake" have plenty of use with regards to language. They just don't apply to things that lots of people intentionally do.

Anyway sorry board game recommendation guys, this is really a topic better suited to the religion / sex / politics / language prescriptivism forum.

On second thought, as I learned here from AJD, a writing system is not technically considered part of the language. The only points I think I'd be prescriptive about, at least when communicating with a native speaker, relate to the writing system only, like punctuation ("its" vs "it's") and spelling ("rogue" vs "rouge"). Whether "without much problem" is acceptable has nothing to do with how English is written, so it's consistent that I'm happy with whatever people actually use.

[Axxle]

Sorry imma let ya finish but Cosmic Encounter is the best game of all time.

[eHalcyon]

Sorry imma let ya finish but Cosmic Encounter is the best game of all time.

I've never tried it before, though it's certainly on my list.  I really like variable player powers a lot as a mechanic.

[ipofanes]

If you can live with politics, and a lot of it, being the only factor that balances out the powers.

Never played it 2p but I'd think that some powers will just steamroll others.

As for Tash-Kalar: Great as a 2p game, but no that great to justify the pricing policy which is allegedly exerted in North America. (I got my copy at a fair for €30, which I consider a fair deal for games and components. Everything over €35 is not justified.)

[Kuildeous]

Never played it 2p but I'd think that some powers will just steamroll others.

Is 2-player even an option for Cosmic Encounter? I would never play it 2p. That would be a matter of who has the better power. And some powers wouldn't work so well in 2p. Some powers are dependent on you being an ally or having allies.

I don't even want to play it with 3p. I think the politics really start to build up at 4 players, and I love doing 6-player games, because that's when intimidation can really take hold. In 4p, the defender can look at the attacker and his one ally and still talk the remaining player into allying. In 6p, if the attacker has three allies, then that defender better make a damn good case for the remaining player. And, well, it's amusing to see the defender defeat five players (or the attacker screws his allies by playing Negotiate).

Not a very strategic game, but it's still pretty fun and crazy.

[Watno]

Cosmic Encounter with 2 players doesn't sound like a good idea. Politics are the entire point of that game.

@ipofanes Doesn't the amount you're willing to pay for a game depend on what it is? I think 30 € for Tash-Kalar is still really expensive, but 50€ for Terra Mystica sound totally justified for me.

[Axxle]

Cosmic isn't even that fun with 3 people tbh.

And yeah, 2 people ruins the whole balancing system they have (which is essentially none, just ally against the OP aliens)

edit: like ipofanes said.

[Eggplantation]

Sorry for taking about an age and a half to reply (you know, life gets in the way...), but thank you all so much for your recommendations! I ended up getting Android: Netrunner, and it is excellent I introduced it to my uni friend who also plays magic and he really likes it too, so we are probably going to develop a friendly rivalry there! It is worlds apart from Dominion, I can definitely confirm what you guys said before. Thanks for all your other recommendations too, I will probably want to get a good game that can be played with a group too, so the suggestions are gold!

[ipofanes]

I just chimed in as Axxle touted Cosmic in a thread where OP's first requirement was 2p viability.

[Davio]

Sorry imma let ya finish but Cosmic Encounter is the best game of all time.

Cosmic Encounter isn't a game, it's an experience.

Approaching it as if it is a game ruins the experience.

[Axxle]

I just chimed in as Axxle touted Cosmic in a thread where OP's first requirement was 2p viability.

Oh, whoops!

[AHoppy]

I just played my first game of Cosmic encounter the other day... And I would have to agree with Davio, it's not a game, it's an experience.  It's a great experience because it just gets crazy.  And I can't imagine playing with less than 4 players (that's what I played with).

[ipofanes]

Sorry imma let ya finish but Cosmic Encounter is the best game of all time.

Cosmic Encounter isn't a game, it's an experience.

Approaching it as if it is a game ruins the experience.

Seems I have a broader definition of "game" in mind. If Fluxx is a game and so is Mafia, why can't a multiplayer experience carrying ad-hoc rules interference and social engineering be a game too?

Disclaimer: I own the Eon version with five expansions but haven't played it for 20 years. Too messy for my taste, even though I had held the game in high esteem.

[Davio]

Well, I was just saying this because I remembered my first "game" of Cosmic Encounter.

It was with our usual gaming group and we had played lots of euros up to that point.
So we were all going in with the idea that it was as regular a game as we had played before.

We would look at the cards in our hand and the powers and tried to play them instead of the players.
How wrong we were. The cards and powers don't matter at all! Okay, they do a, but the main focus of the game is on the players and not the materials.

[eHalcyon]

Cosmic Encounter is a social game. Betrayal at House on the Hill is more what I'd call "experience" rather than "game". In the latter, most of your decisions hardly matter at all. Well, they matter, but you have nothing to inform those decisions until the Haunt begins...

[Ozle]

Flux isn't a game, it's a chore

[Tables]

Flux isn't a game, it's a chore

Hey it's a game. In 2 player people who make choices strategically instead of randomly win like almost 70% of the time over random choice players!

[Ozle]

Flux isn't a game, it's a chore

Hey it's a game. In 2 player people who make choices strategically instead of randomly win like almost 70% of the time over random choice players!

Sorry, i have made my decision and its final.

[eHalcyon]

Just learned about BattleCON: Devastation of Indines. It looks incredible, and I don't even like fighting games that much.  Has anybody here played it before?