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Author Topic: New Player!  (Read 40063 times)

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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2014, 11:06:56 am »
0

Are you implying that you have hands full of "VP"?  Have you purchased any Estates/Duchies other than your starting three Estates?

Some Duchy's to catch up to his Province lead when he leads by more than 1 Province, yeah. 
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Re: New Player!
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2014, 11:07:40 am »
0

To agree with and expand on what Witherweaver said, I believe Dominion is a game where you create your own luck.  There is an element of luck in every game (opening 5/2 vs 4/3 and shuffle luck throughout) but in general most games can be crafted in such a way that the cards you buy reduce the "luck" associated with any given hand.  Buying witches increases the "luck" that you will have good cards in your hand and decreases the "luck" that your opponent will have good cards in his hand.  That is why trashing is such a big deal.  If I trash down to only having 5 cards in my deck, I will get perfectly "lucky" to draw those 5 cards my next hand. 
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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2014, 11:10:41 am »
0

To agree with and expand on what Witherweaver said, I believe Dominion is a game where you create your own luck.  There is an element of luck in every game (opening 5/2 vs 4/3 and shuffle luck throughout) but in general most games can be crafted in such a way that the cards you buy reduce the "luck" associated with any given hand.  Buying witches increases the "luck" that you will have good cards in your hand and decreases the "luck" that your opponent will have good cards in his hand.  That is why trashing is such a big deal.  If I trash down to only having 5 cards in my deck, I will get perfectly "lucky" to draw those 5 cards my next hand.

I agree trashing plays with the odds and probability quite a bit so it's really good.  I just won the game finally lol.  38-34.  I was ahead by one province so I would have lost had he gotten another. 
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elahrairah13

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2014, 11:23:12 am »
0

Are you implying that you have hands full of "VP"?  Have you purchased any Estates/Duchies other than your starting three Estates?

Some Duchy's to catch up to his Province lead when he leads by more than 1 Province, yeah.

Every green card you buy decreases your average buying power (think of each card as bringing a certain buying power to your deck. green cards bring zero).
Try to only buy duchies in the 'end game' (when the provinces are running low or you are close to a three pile ending).
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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2014, 11:24:29 am »
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Are you implying that you have hands full of "VP"?  Have you purchased any Estates/Duchies other than your starting three Estates?

Some Duchy's to catch up to his Province lead when he leads by more than 1 Province, yeah.

Every green card you buy decreases your average buying power (think of each card as bringing a certain buying power to your deck. green cards bring zero).
Try to only buy duchies in the 'end game' (when the provinces are running low or you are close to a three pile ending).

That makes sense, but I shouldn't buy them to even close the gap between our VP scores?  I feel that would make sense.
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LastFootnote

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2014, 11:27:01 am »
+2

Are you implying that you have hands full of "VP"?  Have you purchased any Estates/Duchies other than your starting three Estates?

Some Duchy's to catch up to his Province lead when he leads by more than 1 Province, yeah.

Every green card you buy decreases your average buying power (think of each card as bringing a certain buying power to your deck. green cards bring zero).
Try to only buy duchies in the 'end game' (when the provinces are running low or you are close to a three pile ending).

That makes sense, but I shouldn't buy them to even close the gap between our VP scores?  I feel that would make sense.

Not if it's going to destroy your deck's ability to function. As you play more games, you'll get a feel for when to buy Victory cards depending on your and your opponents' decks.
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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2014, 11:28:26 am »
0

Are you implying that you have hands full of "VP"?  Have you purchased any Estates/Duchies other than your starting three Estates?

Some Duchy's to catch up to his Province lead when he leads by more than 1 Province, yeah.

So just something that comes with time, eh?  Shucks, lol.  I'll keep practicing then :D

Every green card you buy decreases your average buying power (think of each card as bringing a certain buying power to your deck. green cards bring zero).
Try to only buy duchies in the 'end game' (when the provinces are running low or you are close to a three pile ending).

That makes sense, but I shouldn't buy them to even close the gap between our VP scores?  I feel that would make sense.

Not if it's going to destroy your deck's ability to function. As you play more games, you'll get a feel for when to buy Victory cards depending on your and your opponents' decks.
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Re: New Player!
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2014, 11:48:26 am »
+2

Are you implying that you have hands full of "VP"?  Have you purchased any Estates/Duchies other than your starting three Estates?

Some Duchy's to catch up to his Province lead when he leads by more than 1 Province, yeah.

Every green card you buy decreases your average buying power (think of each card as bringing a certain buying power to your deck. green cards bring zero).
Try to only buy duchies in the 'end game' (when the provinces are running low or you are close to a three pile ending).

That makes sense, but I shouldn't buy them to even close the gap between our VP scores?  I feel that would make sense.
You need twice as many Duchies as he has Provinces to close the gap: twice as many purchases that could have been spent on something that improves your deck but were spent on dead cards instead. If you keep improving your deck, you can possibly catch up with Provinces later, but if you keep buying Duchies, you might end up never getting a single Province. If you're playing Big Money, typically you can start buying Duchies when half of the Provinces have been bought, but that might vary depending on your opponent's strategy.
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BadAssMutha

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2014, 11:50:31 am »
+2

Some good tips here, and I'll add my two cents.

Balance your terminal actions (ones with no +actions) with your villages (cards with +2 actions, and possibly more). Oftentimes, I see new players buying a bunch of terminals that they wind up drawing together and can't play, or on the other end, buy a bunch of villages when they have no use for the extra actions. Villages and terminals should be around 1:1 in your deck, with a couple extra villages perhaps if they're terminals that draw cards (drawing dead is a waste of both a card in your hand, as well as that action play for the shuffle you're in).

Opportunity cost is a huge factor. Think about what you're NOT buying this turn, and why your purchase is a better option. Silver can be a good choice if you find yourself with too many terminals and no way to line up an engine.

Watch out for when you shuffle. Anything you've bought in the past few turns doesn't usually come into play until after your next shuffle, so sometimes it can be good to get to the bottom of the deck quicker. Conversely, if you have all your good cards in play, it may be better to hold off shuffling your deck of junk and ruing your bad "luck" for the next few turns.

You'll get a feel for when to buy VP cards as you learn the game. Usually, you want to wait until half the Provinces are gone before going for the Duchies, but this can depend on how resilient you think your deck is. If you know you have a good deck with a few Golds, and are at the top of your shuffle, you can pick up a few extra VP here and there without it affecting you too much. But sometimes, even if you're down by a Province, you need to fix the problem that made you down in the first place, rather than making your deck worse with small VP cards.

Finally, have an idea of what your opponent's deck is capable of. Is it better than mine, or comparable, and why? Were those back-to-back Province turns lucky draws, or can he sustain that pace? It can really help you to not panic when you see your opponent get a few good turns in a row, if you know that the rest of his deck is therefore full of crap. This is also important in terms of knowing how many buys your opponent can muster for a 3-pile ending, as well as knowing if you really do need to go after those Duchies.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 11:57:17 am by BadAssMutha »
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elahrairah13

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2014, 12:17:03 pm »
+1

I'm compiling my tips for someone who is playing base-only and is on their first few games.
What do you guys think?

- if Chapel is on the board, buy it in one of your first few turns. Trash all coppers, estates, curses that you can.
- if Witch is on the board, buy it the first time you have $5+. Play it every chance you have until the curse pile is run out
- if Village is on the board, do not buy it your first two turns. wait until you have multiple terminal actions (terminal actions are actions that do not have +1 action) already in your deck
- do not buy copper (later you will learn to buy copper in a few instances, mostly if you just care about getting to $5 a turn instead of $8, or if you are aiming for Gardens)
- if you have $6 or $7, buy a Gold.
- if you have $8+, buy a Province (later you will learn that you might prefer to wait on Provinces until your deck is robust enough... but when you're first starting? keep it simple)
- when in doubt, buy money
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2014, 12:45:36 pm »
+5

Balance your terminal actions (ones with no +actions) with your villages (cards with +2 actions, and possibly more). Oftentimes, I see new players buying a bunch of terminals that they wind up drawing together and can't play, or on the other end, buy a bunch of villages when they have no use for the extra actions. Villages and terminals should be around 1:1 in your deck, with a couple extra villages perhaps if they're terminals that draw cards (drawing dead is a waste of both a card in your hand, as well as that action play for the shuffle you're in).

I can't agree with this advice. Except in the vaguest sense of "balance your deck composition". It is almost always better to have a deck with too many terminals, than too few. So one should aim for a couple extra terminals, not a couple extra villages. In a treasure+terminals kind of deck, you should not be afraid of some terminal collision, you should be afraid of having a turn where you don't play your terminal.

I think the worst trap that new players tend to fall into is too many nonterminal actions. Which are generally much weaker than terminals, but feel safer and allow the "chaining" of actions that can feel quite nice, but is often just spinning wheels. But this mistake happens to all players at all levels, and most people could improve their overall game by buying more terminals.
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flies

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2014, 12:50:11 pm »
+1

this advice would certainly improve the play of most beginners, but it might also make the game really boring in turning it into a pure algorithm.

I prefer to think of it in terms of maxims that improve your play, which offer the decision to the player:

* Don't buy too many terminals. 
* Villages help with this, but often silver is better than more actions.
* Estates and copper are bad. Getting rid of them is good.
* The game can be roughly divided into a building phase and a greening phase.  Greening too early makes it hard to buy provinces, whereas building late won't help your score.
* There are exceptions to each of these rules depending on what's on the board and what's happening in the game.  Figuring out the exceptions is really fun.
edit: due to Mic Qsenoch
* playing lots of non-terminals is fun but doesn't always help you buy provinces. 
* (slightly more advanced) Terminals are generally stronger than non-terminals and collisions aren't the end of the world.

Card specific notes:
* Each curse you give to other players is one less curse that will end up in your deck, which means that playing witch is a much better defense against witch than moat is.
* Militia and Witch are much stronger attacks than spy or Bureaucrat.
* Chapel is da bomz.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 12:55:59 pm by flies »
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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2014, 12:52:56 pm »
0

These are amazing tips!  I'll be sure to use them in my next games!  Thanks so much!

More tips are appreciated!
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GendoIkari

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2014, 12:54:50 pm »
+2

Becoming really good at Dominion is really easy; there's just 2 things you have to do:

1. Play, play play. The good players on this forum have played thousands of games. Play against those who are better than you; take note of the things they do.

2. Read every article on this forum.

Enjoy!  ;D
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Kirian

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2014, 12:56:55 pm »
0

The good players on this forum have played thousands of games.

So have a lot of us bad players!
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flies

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2014, 12:59:00 pm »
+3

earlier there was some confusion as to terminology.  this glossary might help: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Glossary

It's kind of dense to read by itself, but it does give a feel for how we dominion nerds think.
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Re: New Player!
« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2014, 01:07:48 pm »
+3

Shameless Plug

I know the tutorial is sort of old and a little outdated (the fifth video still talks about isotropic because the two times I've attempted to make a video to update it, Goko wasn't working), but I've been getting some positive feedback recently about it so maybe this would be helpful.
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Re: New Player!
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2014, 01:18:02 pm »
+3

Shameless Plug

I know the tutorial is sort of old and a little outdated (the fifth video still talks about isotropic because the two times I've attempted to make a video to update it, Goko wasn't working), but I've been getting some positive feedback recently about it so maybe this would be helpful.

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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2014, 01:21:21 pm »
+2

Shameless Plug

I know the tutorial is sort of old and a little outdated (the fifth video still talks about isotropic because the two times I've attempted to make a video to update it, Goko wasn't working), but I've been getting some positive feedback recently about it so maybe this would be helpful.

Thanks, I'll be sure to give that a watch.

@Gendo: I watched that video and found it not very helpful.  Simply buying only Villages is not going to help you win.  Ben I believe is his name actually plays the better strategy as a "bad player"
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GendoIkari

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2014, 01:30:57 pm »
0

Shameless Plug

I know the tutorial is sort of old and a little outdated (the fifth video still talks about isotropic because the two times I've attempted to make a video to update it, Goko wasn't working), but I've been getting some positive feedback recently about it so maybe this would be helpful.

Thanks, I'll be sure to give that a watch.

@Gendo: I watched that video and found it not very helpful.  Simply buying only Villages is not going to help you win.  Ben I believe is his name actually plays the better strategy as a "bad player"

Hope I didn't cause any confusion; that video is meant to be a joke; though it does help showcase a common beginners mistake; buying too many villages and not enough money.
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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2014, 01:32:17 pm »
0

Shameless Plug

I know the tutorial is sort of old and a little outdated (the fifth video still talks about isotropic because the two times I've attempted to make a video to update it, Goko wasn't working), but I've been getting some positive feedback recently about it so maybe this would be helpful.

Thanks, I'll be sure to give that a watch.

@Gendo: I watched that video and found it not very helpful.  Simply buying only Villages is not going to help you win.  Ben I believe is his name actually plays the better strategy as a "bad player"

Hope I didn't cause any confusion; that video is meant to be a joke; though it does help showcase a common beginners mistake; buying too many villages and not enough money.

Ha, no you didnt.  I watched it last night and realized it was horrible.  Yet it has so many up-votes...I'll never understand why lol.  I was actually laughing while I watched.
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Re: New Player!
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2014, 01:45:31 pm »
+1

it has so many up-votes...I'll never understand why lol.
I was actually laughing while I watched.
Looks like you understood why.
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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2014, 01:48:08 pm »
0

it has so many up-votes...I'll never understand why lol.
I was actually laughing while I watched.
Looks like you understood why.

I had played at least enough games and read enough to realize that it was a really foolish move on his part to only take Villages :P.  I did beat the 4th or 5th boss on the base campaign and the one afterwards in one shot though this time.  So that's improvement :D
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Re: New Player!
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2014, 02:06:25 pm »
+2

  • Make sure you only pick up cards from your deck with your left hand.
  • Make sure to announce the value of the treasures as you put them down (e.g....I will play Copper, Copper Copper)
  • Moats are awful
  • If playing online Multiplayer, make sure you check the underneath of the cards to see what colour you are supposed to be playing, a lot of people forget this. One time I thought I was blue and I played a massive Smithy chain and then watch my opponent pick up all the provinces.
  • Feel free to challenge me on Goko anytime, my username is Eevee
  • Wear Sunscreen
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WNxTyr4el

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Re: New Player!
« Reply #74 on: January 10, 2014, 02:13:04 pm »
0

  • Make sure you only pick up cards from your deck with your left hand.
  • Make sure to announce the value of the treasures as you put them down (e.g....I will play Copper, Copper Copper)
  • Moats are awful
  • If playing online Multiplayer, make sure you check the underneath of the cards to see what colour you are supposed to be playing, a lot of people forget this. One time I thought I was blue and I played a massive Smithy chain and then watch my opponent pick up all the provinces.
  • Feel free to challenge me on Goko anytime, my username is Eevee
  • Wear Sunscreen

Thanks, I'll have to play against you sometime!  I don't understand that 4th tip though.  I only played against a friend twice online but didn't see any such thing.
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