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[Delseban]

Round 2 Chapel Division
Delseban beats def (4-3)

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-130448-2d2f7bd8.html

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-132056-c8ccc36f.html

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-131439-8df3d993.html

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-133518-5028872a.html

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-134835-e097d259.html

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-140311-fc33e135.html

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-141110-86e51322.html

[def]

lol? Did you mess up something, Delseban?

In this last game, there was a bug. Now that I see the log, I played no Potion turn 9, but isotropic offered me to put back Alchemist, two Treasuries, Herbalist (what the?) and Treasure. I was very confused about the Herbalist there and thought that I could put Alchemist back, not noticing I didn't play a Potion. I chose to put an Alchemist back and totally didn't understand why it didn't appear in my next hand. We both didn't notice that I didn't play a Potion. Long story short, thinking it was a bug that changed the game (instead of only a bug in what is displayed), both of us agreed to not end this game, which I was very thankful for, especially since Delseban got a Possession next turn. I would have played on otherwise, instead of resigning. If Delseban would have reminded me that I didn't play a Potion or wouldn't have agreed on replaying the last match, this wouldn't have happened, I would have played on and maybe lost, maybe won (I felt my deck was tighter there so I could grab Possession soon, too, and play it more regularly, but that's speculating. But it was no way near a lost game. And even if, see, I ended the other games where I noticed early on that I would lose instead of resigning.)

But it happened. We played another game, which I won.
Here it is: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-143310-5f50086f.html

Why would we have played that otherwise if this seventh game would have been the last?

So the result we yesterday agreed on is def beats Delseban (4-3), and Delseban was fair enough to accept this since he had some better luck during games 2, 3, 4 and had the chance to buy the final Province in game 6 for a win.

I was about to post some very positive words about Delseban's fairness in this situation, until I saw this post.

I'm very confused and somehow upset now.

[theory]

Do you have an explanation, Delseban?

[Geronimoo]

DG defeats AJD 4-3 in a Round 2 match in the Thief division:

Game 1: DG 44 – 35 AJD
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-113837-6ff2e929.html
We both went more or less Envoy / big money; I opened Trader with the intention of increasing my Silver density for the Envoy to pick up, but it didn't end up paying off fast enough.

Game 4: DG 34 – 7 AJD
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-122340-a171283e.html
A punishing Ghost Ship game. At least, I felt pretty punished; we both opened Ghost Ship / nothing, and then DG hit $5 again on turn 5 for a second Ghost Ship, and the next thing I knew DG had three Ghost Ships, a Bazaar, a Forge, and a Nobles before I had my second $5 turn. When I had $4 on turn 3 I got a Sea Hag, which might have been a mistake since it slowed my economy down just as much, and I didn't get to play it often enough to have much of an effect.

Just randomly looked at both these games. If you're going Envoy big money, opening Steward/Silver is... not very good (rather the opposite )
And opening Sea Hag is far far better than opening Ghost Ship (despite the $5 opening). If there was a better trasher than Forge, it might be a different story, but on this board Sea Hag is a necessary evil.

[Donald X.]

In this last game, there was a bug. Now that I see the log, I played no Potion turn 9, but isotropic offered me to put back Alchemist, two Treasuries, Herbalist (what the?) and Treasure.

I suspect this wasn't a bug, just the program not explaining everything in detail.

On the turn in question you played Treasuries, Alchemist, and Herbalist. All three cards do something when discarded from play; so, you have to order those effects, and the program lets you. In practice you would always put Alchemist ahead of Herbalist (that way you can use Herbalist to put a Potion on top if you have one while still putting Alchemist on top, and hey if you don't want Alchemist on top that's still optional). The program asks though, and the resolution is potentially different based on your decision in the case where you have a Potion in play.

[GendoIkari]

The logs for the match between GendoIkari and 123dude:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-120407-432acc42.html GendoIkari, 47-36
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-121306-9f8b4b15.html 123dude, 47-36
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-123104-3b7736f1.html GendoIkari, 51-47
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-123726-6b2d7528.html 123dude, 46-45
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-125134-520ec2ae.html GendoIkari, 29-24
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-125932-1a0b6f20.html 123dude, 34-26
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-131310-c2f2db80.html GendoIkari, 42-16

[def]

In this last game, there was a bug. Now that I see the log, I played no Potion turn 9, but isotropic offered me to put back Alchemist, two Treasuries, Herbalist (what the?) and Treasure.

I suspect this wasn't a bug, just the program not explaining everything in detail.

On the turn in question you played Treasuries, Alchemist, and Herbalist. All three cards do something when discarded from play; so, you have to order those effects, and the program lets you. In practice you would always put Alchemist ahead of Herbalist (that way you can use Herbalist to put a Potion on top if you have one while still putting Alchemist on top, and hey if you don't want Alchemist on top that's still optional). The program asks though, and the resolution is potentially different based on your decision in the case where you have a Potion in play.

Thanks for the reply, Donald. You are reading almost every topic here, don't you?
I figured out why parts of it happened. I shouldn't have called it a bug, it was just very confusing and in the heat of the moment I had no clue of what was going on and thought it was a bug (blame the machine and not yourself, it's easier this way ).
I reproduced it now:

the message I got was like "clean up which card next> Treasury Alchemist Treasury Treasury Herbalist Copper Copper" (some money is missing, otherwise it's the same)

I didn't read properly, it doesn't say put cards back, it says clean up cards (and I'm no native English speaker, which maybe would have been helpful here, too. Or, just being more intelligent and carefully reading things. Choose one). Everything went right, but it still was confusing. Normally isotropic discards cards from play automatically, which it didn't do here with Alchemist. You need more than one card that can be put back to see thes "clean up ..." message, right? Honestly I can't remember seeing it before, normally it is just "put back this and that".

I see the reason now why Herbalist AND Copper are appearing here, but it contributed to my confusion.

So, I misread the interface here, which is my fault. My point is still valid, though, since Delseban could have reminded me that I had no Potion in play, like "hey, def, what's your problem, you had no Potion in play", which would have led to my reply "Oh. Right. I'm dumb." and the game continues...

[kn1tt3r]

It's just because the cards trigger on "cleaning up". So if you choose to clean up Herbalist first, you can first put a treasure back on top, if you choose to clean up the Treasuries first, they can be put back on top first. If you accidentially clean up your Gold first you originally wanted to put back with Herbalist, you won't be able to do so anymore. If you coose to clean up Alchemist first, nothing happens because there was no Potion in play.

This might have been less confusing if the question were "which clean-up effect do you want to use first? Herbalist, Treasury" (or something like that) without mentioning cards that would do nothing anyway, but whatever... the way it is it follows the rules very strictly, so it's fine imo.

[Arctem]

Not sure if it's too late to say this, but Yariv won our Round 1 match by me failing to show up to our match yesterday. I was too busy to post anything yesterday, but it would be nice if he would still be able to continue on to the next round.

[theory]

Hmm.  That's interesting.  I had put you both down as a forfeit, but I can reinstate Yariv, I suppose.

[greatexpectations]

@ theory/rrenaud

are you guys going to make a separate results thread for rounds 2/3/4/etc or should we continue using this one?  it is sort of convenient to keep all of the discussion in one thread, but with that many rounds this thread might get massive and have many diverging discussions.

[theory]

There's already a lot of round 2 reports in here.  I think we have no choice but to keep going.  For what it's worth, in a 256-person tournament, you need 255 matches, and we're already more than halfway done since the number of matches will exponentially decrease.

[GendoIkari]

@ theory/rrenaud, could you update the bracket results with the scores I posted? It's doesn't really matter of course, so if it's a lot of work don't worry about it, but it would be nice to have just for posterity. Thanks!

[theory]

Yep, I'll do that as soon as I get some time free.

I've updated the bracket with everyone else's scores, but work has a habit of interrupting my hobby :-)

[PerdHapley]

Danno77 beat me 4-3 (round 2 Witch Division) in an intense series of games. At one point I had him 3-1, but he staged a great comeback.

Game 1 (perdhapley): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-120509-78556437.html
Game 2 (perdhapley): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-120845-6ff21d47.html
Game 3 (danno77): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-121632-afb36924.html
Game 4 (perdhapley): log missing
Game 5 (danno77): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-122729-b715a63f.html
Game 6 (danno77): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-123112-fc404621.html
Game 7 (danno77): http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-123735-6837627e.html

Congrats to danno on his second upset in a row and good luck in the rest of the tournament!

[nomnomnom]

Gardens Division - Round 2
nomnomnom(5) 4 : 3 eEnder(28)

Game 1
nomnomnom 40 : 9 eEnder
In this game I dish out 8 curses and receive none because I'm luckier with my bane card. Not much else to say.

Game 2
nomnomnom 25: 35 eEnder
After eEnder had opened with Develop/Potion(Apothecary the only potion card) I thought I had already won planning on going for Salvager-BM. However with the help of Cellar and Embassy eEnder manages to buy 5 Provinces in 14 turns and before I know it the game is over.

Game 3
nomnomnom 36 : 21 eEnder
We both open Remake/Silver and build a Wharf/Worker's Village-engine. In turns 3 and 4 I bought Silvers whereas eEnder buys engine cards. In the end the game is too short for eEnder to make use of his superior engine and I come out ahead.

Game 4
nomnomnom 30 : 32 eEnder
I get a 5/2 start with Chapel and Witch on the board and go for both thinking I would win easily. Surprisingly for me I both start buying Provinces later and receive more curses.
After post mortem I think going Witch-BM would have resulted in a fairly easy win for me.

Game 5
nomnomnom 49 : 5 eEnder
Ambassador game in which I go for Minions and eEnder chooses Cities. But the Cities never reach level two and my Minions let me buy points while eEnder is stuck buying Cities.

Game 6
nomnomnom 17 : 36 eEnder
With Young Witch on the board I'm very unhappy about my 5/2 start and open YW/ nothing. eEnder buys YW and Trade Route (the bane) and things don't go well for me. I probably made several mistakes but I never had the feeling that I was close to winning and was preparing myself for the deciding game.

Game 7
nomnomnom 30 : 18 eEnder
Because of this thread I know that Bishop/Chapel is quite a potent strategy and it does show here. Although I didn't play it perfectly it is fast enough to not get too far behind ( in this case I started buying Provinces one turn later) and it never chokes.

Thanks to eEnder for a very close and intense match.

[Brando Commando]

Witch Division -- Round 2 -- Rabid vs. Brando Commando

Rabid defeated Brando Commando 4 games to 2.

I won't comment on each game, but Rabid proved that he understands how to manage a complicated drawing deck and deserved the win for sure.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-130325-601343c8.html 

Rabid, 38-28

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-125740-8eab26fb.html

Brando Commando, 41-40

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-124759-9646ef9f.html

Rabid, 24-1.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-123413-04668b32.html

Rabid, 62-20.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-121107-e95ccbe1.html

Rabid, 45-44.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-120126-ffd473e3.html

Brando Commando, 45-28.

[Rabid]

Thanks for the games Brandon, was a fun match.
I especially liked your 1 point win in this game:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-125740-8eab26fb.html

[ScottPilgrim92]

ScottPilgrim92 wins against JazzPianist by 4-0
I must say I got a little lucky in some games.

Game 1:
ScottPilgrim92 36-30 JazzPianist http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-130804-d3aa4b74.html

Familiar was the key card here. With the 5/2, we both opened the same way, Wharf/nothing. on my first 4 I got a potion and started buying familiars, while JP, having always hands with either 2/3 or 5/6, didn't. That was the deciding factor, I think.

Game 2:
ScottPilgrim92 18-Resign JazzPianist http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-131841-2199e910.html

Again there was only one good way to open with 5/2, and we both opened that way. Luckly, I got to 7 early and bought a forge, which helped me to clean up my deck and play my jester more often. That difference gave me the edge.

Game 3:
ScottPilgrim92 35-29 JazzPianist http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-132854-6141bbc3.html

Once again it was a mirror match to get the remodel/grand market engine running. The Inn made some crazy turns for both of us. A mix between luck and early Inning was the key in this game.

Game 4:
ScottPilgrim92 37-24 JazzPianist http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-133559-34e101de.html

We again went for the same strategy (alchemist), but I took an oasis instead of silver, and got a festival for the buy, while he took early on a second potion, which was a great idea I copyed later. In fact, the things would have gonne different If I didn't see that I needed the second potion.

Thanks a lot for the games, JazzPianist! =)

[Glooble]

I hope it doesn't confuse things if I post the game logs from my round one face off against pops. I only saved half of them,so I had to wait until the others were on council room. I have them now:

Game 1:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-115258-073cac1f.html
Game 2:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-120728-0ec34723.html
Game 3:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-121924-392c8727.html
Game 4:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-123036-35b4a2b6.html
Game 5:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-124035-be7899dd.html
Game 6:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-125538-eacfaabd.html\
Game 7:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-131102-f7bee34c.html

[greatexpectations]

Festuca beats greatexpectations 4-1 in the chapel division round 2.
each game was pretty close, with very similar strategies in 3 games. had a few cagey end games in there too. i'd say Festuca is a far better player than her seed and level might indicate.

Game 1 - Festuca - very similar strategies with witch, upgrade, inn.
Game 2 - Festuca - witch and trader, with cache and tribute to make it interesting.
Game 3 - greatexpectations - highway/grand market/peddler vs a modified jack.  if festuca plays straight jack she probably sweeps me.
Game 4 - Festuca - my warehouse/stash vs her warehouse/peddler/bridge. her 11 card fairgrounds are the difference.
Game 5 - Festuca - nearly identical worker village/steward/money decks. differences are her jester to my remodel. couldn't hit my double province turn and stalled from duchy green.

edit: changed some pronouns

[theory]

i'd say Festuca is a far better player than hisher seed and level might indicate.

[guided]

Welp, got my ass kicked tonight. Have fun with the rest of the tourney, y'all.

[v3ck]

v3ck 4-1 guided (Witch Division)

v3ck 16:30 guided (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-190425-f52339ea.html)
v3ck 46:19 guided (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-191308-d7cdc22c.html)
v3ck 39:32 guided (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-192429-04f0a756.html)
v3ck 42:37 guided (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-193010-13f0e122.html)
v3ck 94:71 guided (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/05/game-20111205-194158-8f7100fe.html)

[guided]

Game 2: Made absolutely the wrong choice in opening Wharf. Hunting Party was the only remotely good option other than just taking the Ambassador for $5.
Game 3: Shrugged off Ghost Ship thinking Shanty Town would be too good a defense. And while it is a decent defense, it's not enough.
Game 4: Dunno. I'm 50/50 on whether this was pure bad luck or whether Lookout was stronger than I expected here. I was aware of its use as a sorta-kinda soft counter to Bureaucrat, but that usage really doesn't wow me.
Game 5: Rotten luck. I never managed to hit a Masquerade on a Possession turn.

All in all, I got outplayed. Congrats to v3ck on advancing.