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Author Topic: Best opening for a Herald engine  (Read 2982 times)

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achmed_sender

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Best opening for a Herald engine
« on: January 04, 2014, 09:47:13 am »
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Just played this game:http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140104/log.505d72d7a2e6fa3316de089e.1388846389429.txt

Just got destroyed by a really nice herald engine, my opponent played the engine very well. The thing is, he probably just took the better opening right?

How does the power-opening Village/Herald do against Feast/Silver? :)

Really, I couldn't believe that my opponent made me gain 8 of the curses, playing a witch from t4 to t12 (with one break). I  had to play lucky and tried to rush the Duchies (which almost worked, 1 VP short of a tie at the end), but as said, he played the endgame quite well, imho.
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Awaclus

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2014, 09:52:53 am »
+1
He was incredibly lucky with that turn 3 Witch buy.
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soulnet

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2014, 09:58:57 am »
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Quote from: Awaclus on January 04, 2014, 09:52:53 am
He was incredibly lucky with that turn 3 Witch buy.

Definitely. After you have the first Witch, Cantrips are better than Silver, so Herald hits more and you play Witches more often. But, there was nothing to ensure he was going to get the Witch that early. Moreover, if he did not and kept not buying Silver, with the incoming Curses, regular luck would make it really difficult for him to ever get a Witch.

Maybe open Village/Feast to avoid the Silver is better for an Engine that Silver/Feast.
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SCSN

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2014, 10:08:52 am »
+1
I think going for an early Witch here is a pretty big mistake. I don't want one until I'm drawing my deck each turn or somehow have a big surplus of Villages.

The deck you want to build is a huge Minion chain powered by Heralds and Nomad Camps for the +buy. The first focus should be trashing, i.e. get a Count as soon as possible. Because Herald is on board you don't want Silver here, so Feast/Village is the right open.

Get a Count with Feast, more Villages with 3, Feasts with 4 (later Nomad Camp and Heralds), trashing them into Minions. Trash aggressively with Count, once you've your deck under control add Witch.

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Warfreak2

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 11:00:09 am »
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Count is good trashing in the early game, but once you have Witches and Minions and Heralds, trashing your whole hand isn't such a good proposition (OK, you can keep one or two cards). So, you have to get it ASAP, and that takes priority over Witches. Cursing is going to have a bigger impact once your opponent also can't trash a whole hand of cards, so you'd actually prefer to delay getting the Witch.
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If the only engine on the board is Procession->Conspirator, I will play it.

ehunt

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 11:34:17 am »
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Quote from: Awaclus on January 04, 2014, 09:52:53 am
He was incredibly lucky with that turn 3 Witch buy.

incredibly lucky seems pretty strong here. The probability that he gets 5 on the second shuffle is similar to (in fact slightly greater than) the probability of splitting 5 2.
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ehunt

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2014, 11:35:29 am »
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Quote from: ehunt on January 04, 2014, 11:34:17 am
Quote from: Awaclus on January 04, 2014, 09:52:53 am
He was incredibly lucky with that turn 3 Witch buy.

incredibly lucky seems pretty strong here. The probability that he gets 5 on the second shuffle is similar to (in fact slightly greater than) the probability of splitting 5 2.


Ok, i take it back -- drawing the witch on turn 4, that's incredibly lucky.
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ehunt

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2014, 11:41:48 am »
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soulnet

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2014, 12:16:56 pm »
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Quote from: Warfreak2 on January 04, 2014, 11:00:09 am
Count is good trashing in the early game, but once you have Witches and Minions and Heralds, trashing your whole hand isn't such a good proposition (OK, you can keep one or two cards). So, you have to get it ASAP, and that takes priority over Witches. Cursing is going to have a bigger impact once your opponent also can't trash a whole hand of cards, so you'd actually prefer to delay getting the Witch.

You will probably play all those cards first and trash the hand afterwards (especially non-terminals like Herald and Minion) so I don't see your point. You can always topdeck the Witch if you have to choose between terminals.
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Warfreak2

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2014, 12:21:16 pm »
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That's assuming you don't Herald into Count, but you have a point - there aren't really any key terminals here. You're not going to draw three more Nomad Camps than you can play.
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If the only engine on the board is Procession->Conspirator, I will play it.

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 11:10:25 am »
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DG

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Re: Best opening for a Herald engine
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 12:36:10 pm »
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You could also have played a witch on turn 4 if you'd overpaid for a herald. Not sure if it's entirely wise though.
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