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AdamH

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What is the audience for this?
« on: December 27, 2013, 03:39:38 am »
+6

Some people make videos of Dominion game play. I love watching them and I make them too, it's super-great. I mean, for me personally I make the videos because I like doing it and a few people have said they like to watch them. And for me personally I like watching other peoples' videos because it helps me get better at the game.

But why does everybody else watch/make Dominion videos? What kind of people watch Dominion videos, and why? What is it that they're looking for when they watch Dominion videos? I want to know. Would it be useful to explain things more often in a way that would make sense/benefit someone who is less experienced at Dominion? What experience level should I be aiming for when I'm making my commentary?

Why do I want to know? Well there are two reasons. The first is that an awareness of what people like and don't like in Dominion videos probably can't hurt in making them better for the people watching. So yeah that's useful to know.

But the reason I'm asking now is because someone has inquired about streaming Dominion Online and I think I want to give it a shot. Maybe it's a thing, you know? I think I can deal with the technical aspects of it and maybe there's an audience for it. But I'd like to hear about what people want to see and what they like and don't like so I know what to keep and what to throw away when I'm aiming for a live audience.

I have a couple of ideas from what I've gathered talking to a few people, hurdles I think might be non-trivial to deal with, but I'd really like any input anyone has to offer here. Why do you watch Dominion videos (or why not)?
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AdamH

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 03:49:29 am »
0

Some challenges:

I talked to someone and he made a good point: when people stream a first-person shooter or a Mario game, it's very relatable. One can just sit back with their popcorn, watch a person play, and easily be able to follow what's going on.

This might be a difficult obstacle for streaming Dominion. One can just stream a Dominion tutorial all of the time but that will get old pretty quickly. I really want to talk about higher-level stuff than just the mechanics of what's going on. Sure I can say what the cards do before each game and repeat some concepts a lot, but how do you translate what's happening on the screen to someone who has never seen any of this before while not boring the people who know what's going on?

I mean, it sounds like an impossible problem, but people stream Hearthstone apparently and there's a huge following. There are probably more cards in Hearthstone than there are in Dominion. What do they do and what is the basic knowledge that their audience should know before being able to make sense of what they see? How do they convey that knowledge to their viewers? I mean there must be something, right?

Another challenge: how do you find the right audience? Or do you just stream and hope people find it and like it? It seems like nobody is doing this, so first we have to convince people that they care, then we have to convince people that they want to watch, which seems very difficult. Should we try and get people from the forums on board at first?

These are all questions I don't really know the answers to. Maybe I have guesses but I really don't know so any input is appreciated.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 05:35:43 am »
0

I'm watching Dominion on YouTube because getting to see the game from another perspective is interesting and because sometimes I'm too tired to play Dominion myself but still want to do something Dominion related. I'm making Dominion videos to improve my English pronunciation.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 07:46:44 am »
+4

I think they should be aimed at someone above a beginner's level. Well, maybe there should be beginner's ones too, I don't know. I haven't watched a whole lot of dominion videos, but from the few I have, I've taken quite a lot out of them from getting to see how someone better than me approaches a game and how much thought goes into it.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 01:15:07 pm »
0

because sometimes I'm too tired to play Dominion myself but still want to do something Dominion related.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Adam, if you're going to stream Dominion, then just talk about whatever is going through your mind as you play. Go ahead and assume that your viewers are familiar with the cards. You mentioned Hearthstone, but I'll go further than that; some people stream Magic: the Gathering and assume that their viewers are familiar with the cards. Compared to that level of complexity, Dominion is nothing.  ;)

Basically, just do the same thing in the stream that you do in your videos.

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 02:42:55 pm »
0

I agree. I still plan to stream at one day, but wasn't able so far. But what I like to do there is basically just the same as in my YouTube videos.

And to respond to the original question: I'm making Dominion videos because I enjoy making them. I enjoy watching high level play in tourament games and in non-tournament games I enjoy watching videos with a good balance of humor/entertainment and strategic talk.

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 05:04:15 pm »
0

All right, seems like the people here have a direction they'd like to see this go in. I guess that's at least a start.

Earlier today I tried streaming with Nick, it went OK, but not many people were around to watch.

Here's my twitch channel. I'll see if I can be online at a certain time: http://www.twitch.tv/adamhorton
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2013, 02:29:02 am »
0

After more talking and some thinking I have more things. Sorry this thread is kind of like a place for us (me) to brainstorm; as always, if there are other ideas out there I'm certainly interested in hearing them.

So other than a few minor technical things (like Goko letting me start a game of Dominion, no bigs) I can probably start streaming when I just play matches. It's not too prohibitive at the moment, and it should become much less prohibitive when I upgrade my computer, which should happen shortly. I think I have a decent idea for what direction I should go in terms of content, so thanks to everyone who has responded here, that helps a lot.

It seems that the main challenge left for the future of streaming Dominion is building an audience. It's probably the case that these other games are bigger than Dominion so it's easy to just start streaming them. Nobody is out there wanting to watch Dominion streams because nobody is streaming, and vice versa, so if this is ever going to get off the ground, someone has to break the vicious cycle and that's probably going to take some effort.

Well I'm not exactly the kind of person that's going to let the reason why this doesn't work be because I didn't try.

So I'm at least going to put in the effort; and the obvious starting point is the community "here". ("here" means the people who read the forums and the people who watch on YouTube) I can plug my stream here and on my channel, and other people here can either watch it and/or recommend it, and I feel like if it's going to work that's our best chance. It was also recommended that I have a schedule, where I at least stream at a certain time every week. Once there's an actual audience, it's going to be much easier to expand that audience.

But that doesn't happen without support. If I don't get it, that's fine, I'm not offended, but I'm at least going to try and do it. So I think I'll try doing a stream once or twice in the next couple of days and see if anyone wants to watch, and see what general interest is. Maybe it will take off, who knows?
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2013, 02:46:56 am »
0

I have never really been big on watching streams of anything.  I would rather be playing whatever it is that's being streamed.  I might watch it if I was somehow unable to play, though.

If someone figures out the magic of spectated gaming and can explain to me how to enjoy it better I hope they send me a pm.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2013, 04:14:05 am »
+2

For me, it's not that I can't play the games in question, but that I can't play them as well as the streamer.

For speedrunners, they do tricks I wouldn't dream of otherwise, and for competitive games like League of Legends, I get to see the game played at a level that I don't have the patience and skill to achieve.

That's what I had in mind for the audience of streamed Dominion. Not that I couldn't play, but that I can't play from the perspective of someone at 5000+ or Level 50+ on the isotropish leaderboard.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2013, 09:47:27 am »
+2

Adam: I'm with you. Let me know when, and I'll try to give you some games.

I also might look at streaming myself. I supposedly set up to do so a few months back, though I haven't actually tried it yet...

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2013, 10:32:28 am »
0

Well, I like watching Dominion videos, but don't expect to me catch any live streams. My schedule is too variant for that. connecting your streams to your channel would be great.

I mostly watch Dominion videos for the commentary on strategic decisions. I'd actually like to make Dominion videos of my own someday in order to expose some of the thought process that goes into my decision making. I wouldn't want to watch videos without any commentary.

Good luck on your endeavor, and wouldn't mind playing a few games against you either.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 09:57:33 am »
+3

I'm doing this, right here, right now. Probably be on for a few hours.

Edit: and of course, by "right here", I mean on my own youtube channel :P

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 04:30:40 am »
0

What do I need to do to setup a stream? I might try to do something like this as it seems a lot less of a headache than recording and editing videos and stuff.

And what's the load on the processor? As it is my laptop crashes ~1/50 games due to overheating, would streaming video significantly increase that number?

@WW The link to your youtube channel in your signature is broken.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 04:36:30 am by SheCantSayNo »
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 07:16:13 am »
0

So I learned something yesterday: it's possible to do a live stream on YouTube. I literally had no idea.

I know that on Twitch users can configure their accounts such that they get an E-mail whenever the channels they subscribe to go live, I wonder if there's a similar thing on YouTube. This plus SCSN's questions are very good questions that I just don't have the time to answer right now.

It seems there could be a lot of pros to doing our streaming on YouTube, it will be much easier for us to build our starting audience because there is already a following on YouTube. On the other hand, nobody I've talked to so far has heard of YouTube live streams yet, and Twitch has a huge following for this kind of thing, so I wonder if there are reasons for that.

I used Open Broadcasting Software (OBS) to stream on Twitch, I think I've achieved a basic competency with that software so if that ends up being something one can use with YouTube also I may try and put together some resources to help people get started.

This is exciting  ;D
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 07:21:50 am »
0

What do I need to do to setup a stream? I might try to do something like this as it seems a lot less of a headache than recording and editing videos and stuff.

And what's the load on the processor? As it is my laptop crashes ~1/50 games due to overheating, would streaming video significantly increase that number?

@WW The link to your youtube channel in your signature is broken.
I'll try to get to explaining this (and fixing my signature) later today. Don't have time right now.

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 01:20:22 pm »
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Just a random question, if you stream something to twitch, can you download the video from there?
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2013, 01:56:28 pm »
0

Just a random question, if you stream something to twitch, can you download the video from there?

I know that you can set it to save videos of your streams fors well or two and you can save videos on your channel if you want. Not sure about downloading them though
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2013, 04:50:14 pm »
+4

What do I need to do to setup a stream? I might try to do something like this as it seems a lot less of a headache than recording and editing videos and stuff.

And what's the load on the processor? As it is my laptop crashes ~1/50 games due to overheating, would streaming video significantly increase that number?

@WW The link to your youtube channel in your signature is broken.
I'll try to get to explaining this (and fixing my signature) later today. Don't have time right now.
Okay, signature fixed. Load on the processor - I don't know. I don't notice it, but on the other hand I have a quite new desktop. Actually recording otherwise was a bit of a strain... well, I dunno, I guess you just try it and find out.

Streaming: Well, if you want to do it on YouTube, 1. Get a channel. 2. I think you have to sign up for it? I did ages ago, I *think*, and there is something about having to be in good standing - I think you might have to upload videos with a certain frequency - I'm not sure about this bit. 3. Go to your "Video Manager", set up a live event. 4. Download their app - this took me like 1 minute, linked to it right out of trying to make my first stream. 5. Start streaming. There's a button on the left to share a window, which is what I'm using in my streams.
Eh, there's a lot more details, but nothing all that difficult - I just sort of stumbled my way through it, took me about 30-45 minutes to figure it all out.

Pre-post Edit: Or there's a how-to right here: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2853700?hl=en&ref_topic=2853713

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2014, 08:53:16 pm »
0

So I tried setting up my YouTube for streaming, it really wants me to use Google+ Hangout to stream, which is completely terrible. There doesn't seem to be a way for me to stream just the part of the window that Dominion takes up, it wants me to have my entire browser window at the very least. This is terrible, why would anyone want to use it?

Is there a better way to do this? None of the resources I've found are able to address this.

Streaming on Twitch has given me exactly what I want, because I get to use OBS (Open Broadcasting Software) which lets me actually set things the way I want. I'd really like to keep my YouTube audience when I start streaming, and archive my streams on my channel, but wow this interface is terrible. Has anyone out there had any more success?
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2014, 09:19:39 pm »
0

AdamH: I am subscribed to a lot of people on Youtube, and they will usually send out a twitter message and/or upload a short video that just says "I'm streaming now!  Come watch!" with a link when they are streaming.  That may work for you?  You could also tell people in advance, like "I'll be streaming in 4 hours!"

Things like this are why I wish we had an IRC channel for these forums.  I'm on IRC all day...
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2014, 09:22:56 pm »
0

I plan to have a schedule for a certain time each week I start streaming. Do you think just telling people on YouTube that I plan to do that would be enough, even if I stream on Twitch?

I was thinking about having a thread here that people could subscribe to and I'd post when I play, I'm really hoping to start that next week. I'm getting a new computer and it should be delivered tomorrow and that's really the last thing I'm waiting on at this point.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2014, 09:29:34 pm »
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I plan to have a schedule for a certain time each week I start streaming. Do you think just telling people on YouTube that I plan to do that would be enough, even if I stream on Twitch?

I was thinking about having a thread here that people could subscribe to and I'd post when I play, I'm really hoping to start that next week. I'm getting a new computer and it should be delivered tomorrow and that's really the last thing I'm waiting on at this point.

In my experience trying to get people to play games, you should probably send reminders close to the time of the event.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2014, 05:07:35 pm »
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All right, I did some testing today and a lot of setting up of my new computer and tomorrow I should be ready to stream some Dominion! I'm going to post in the General Dominion Discussion board to try and get some more visibility and do a little something on my YouTube channel and try and get this going.

...so here goes nothing...
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2014, 01:20:10 pm »
0

Well I'm going to try and start streaming now. Goko's create game isn't working but hopefully Automatch will still be a workaround. Forums have been down most of the morning as well but I really want to do this so I'll be streaming...

Here's a link to my Twitch channel

Hope to see you there!
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2014, 09:27:58 pm »
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You should play a game where both people record it, and then edit it into one video so you can show both perspectives.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2014, 09:54:03 pm »
+3

You should play a game where both people record it, and then edit it into one video so you can show both perspectives.

Qvist and I have several videos like that, if this is what you want...
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2014, 02:32:17 pm »
+2

Hello Adam,

I love watching Dominion videos and the more skilled the player, the better. Also I like explanations, why this is better than this or why this strategy will not work. I am to get really good in playing Dominion, but I sometimes are not in the mood of playing myself.

I very much appreciate watching videos since I understand that they it takes some time to create them and I especially enjoy your experimental format where you see both players card at the same time. Love it!

If there are no videos to see, I will watch streams or recorded stream since I understand that they are much easier to create.

I just watched the beginning of your first streamed video. Great! The quality is so much better without the whole browser window. I now understand that you didn't like youtube.

Enjoy yourself
SirD
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 02:36:54 pm by SirD »
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2014, 10:46:49 am »
0

Thanks for your feedback, I'm glad you like it.  ;D

Qvist and I will be streaming for a bit starting now.

My channel: http://www.twitch.tv/adamhorton

His channel: http://www.twitch.tv/davqvist

Multitwitch: http://www.multitwitch.tv/adamhorton/davqvist
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2014, 12:54:02 pm »
+1

I currently have 148 subscribers on YT. If I get 150 subscribers, I'll reveal something for the 2014 edition of the "Best Cards List" in our stream.  ;)

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2014, 05:26:48 pm »
0

I continue streaming for a little bit if anyone wants to listen...

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2014, 05:55:46 am »
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Can anyone explain the difference between streaming and streaming to me? I mean, I'm using (read: I haven't used for a long time) livestream procaster and that's streamed, which is how the f.ds championship bronze medal match against OWB was streamed life, and I know at least some people were watching it.

For content: So far, most people have made videos and shown their approach to the actual game and talked about their strategies, but I've already encountered some criticism saying that some viewers regarded that as boring and preferred more of a popcorn dominion approach - whatever that exactly means - but your videos, AdamH, seemed to meet their taste. I must admit that I haven't watched many videos lately, so I don't really know what people tell when they record/stream (I will fix this.).

Maybe it's worth to consider a channel where several people contribute? Like someone taking over videos where the main focus is strategy (break that down into strategy for beginners, strategy for advanced etc.), others meeting the popcorn dominion audience, others meet the *insert other funny categories here* guys.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2014, 07:14:38 am »
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Maybe it's worth to consider a channel where several people contribute? Like someone taking over videos where the main focus is strategy (break that down into strategy for beginners, strategy for advanced etc.), others meeting the popcorn dominion audience, others meet the *insert other funny categories here* guys.

Interesting idea. I'm interested in some comments on this.
I found streaming a lot harder than making YT videos because there will be gaps - either between games or when there are boring games or, when I play with Adam, while he is muting me - and then I have a hard time knowing what to talk about. I'd appreciate some ideas to make this more interesting.

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2014, 08:44:00 am »
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streaming a little bit again...

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2014, 10:57:17 am »
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Can anyone explain the difference between streaming and streaming to me?

Did you misspeak here? I'm not sure what you're asking. When I talk about streaming, it means that people are watching what I do and say live (with about a 20 second delay) and I can interact with them through the chat.

For content: So far, most people have made videos and shown their approach to the actual game and talked about their strategies, but I've already encountered some criticism saying that some viewers regarded that as boring and preferred more of a popcorn dominion approach - whatever that exactly means - but your videos, AdamH, seemed to meet their taste. I must admit that I haven't watched many videos lately, so I don't really know what people tell when they record/stream (I will fix this.).

"Popcorn Dominion" videos. What that means to me is a video that's entertaining to watch, even for someone who isn't watching the video just to get better at the game. To make a contrast, WanderingWinder is really really good at the game and when I watch his videos I learn things, but a more casual player might not. If he gets an unfortunate draw, he rarely shows much emotion in the process. I'd like to think I'm OK at the game, so casual players may certainly get better watching my videos. But I try to make my videos somewhat entertaining by showing my sense of humor (which I realize isn't for everyone). I talk a lot more to the video so maybe it's a little more accessible, and if I get a bad draw I'll whine about it, which some people might think is funny. These are at least my thoughts.

Maybe it's worth to consider a channel where several people contribute? Like someone taking over videos where the main focus is strategy (break that down into strategy for beginners, strategy for advanced etc.), others meeting the popcorn dominion audience, others meet the *insert other funny categories here* guys.

Is that what this was intended to be?
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2014, 04:54:00 am »
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Can anyone explain the difference between streaming and streaming to me?

Did you misspeak here? I'm not sure what you're asking. When I talk about streaming, it means that people are watching what I do and say live (with about a 20 second delay) and I can interact with them through the chat.

For content: So far, most people have made videos and shown their approach to the actual game and talked about their strategies, but I've already encountered some criticism saying that some viewers regarded that as boring and preferred more of a popcorn dominion approach - whatever that exactly means - but your videos, AdamH, seemed to meet their taste. I must admit that I haven't watched many videos lately, so I don't really know what people tell when they record/stream (I will fix this.).

"Popcorn Dominion" videos. What that means to me is a video that's entertaining to watch, even for someone who isn't watching the video just to get better at the game. To make a contrast, WanderingWinder is really really good at the game and when I watch his videos I learn things, but a more casual player might not. If he gets an unfortunate draw, he rarely shows much emotion in the process. I'd like to think I'm OK at the game, so casual players may certainly get better watching my videos. But I try to make my videos somewhat entertaining by showing my sense of humor (which I realize isn't for everyone). I talk a lot more to the video so maybe it's a little more accessible, and if I get a bad draw I'll whine about it, which some people might think is funny. These are at least my thoughts.

Maybe it's worth to consider a channel where several people contribute? Like someone taking over videos where the main focus is strategy (break that down into strategy for beginners, strategy for advanced etc.), others meeting the popcorn dominion audience, others meet the *insert other funny categories here* guys.

Is that what this was intended to be?

I didn't misspeak. I meant that when I record for putting videos up on youtube, it's streamed anyway because the software I use for recording is a streaming software as well.
The link you gave is probably something of that kind. My idea was just that it might be hard for a single player to fill a whole channel unless you're on a gap year or physically ill but not handicapped in any way preventing you from playing dominion and streaming it. And that a number of different approaches ( a) popcorn, b) strategy, c) discuss NBA/Bundesliga/Australian Open results while playing dominion, ...) within one channel would attract a wider audience.
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2014, 07:36:40 am »
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Ah, well there's some software out there that's capable of streaming live and/or saving video files. When I stream, I stream to Twitch.tv and others can watch it there and chat with each other and me while I'm playing. If that isn't done then the end result is pretty much the same as just putting the video up on YouTube, only there you get a chance to edit it first.

I wonder who put together the DS YouTube channel, and if they can make the settings such that it just pushes what other channels put out to its subscribers. I don't know if that's possible but it seems to me like that's what the point of that channel is. Maybe not and I'm just clueless...
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2014, 10:55:38 am »
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the difference between streaming and streaming is streaming.
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flies

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2014, 10:57:32 am »
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I currently have 148 subscribers on YT. If I get 150 subscribers, I'll reveal something for the 2014 edition of the "Best Cards List" in our stream.  ;)
I'd buy that for a dollar! (I mean, i'm your fiftieth subscriber.  gimme reveals. gimme gimme.)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 12:04:50 pm by flies »
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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2014, 02:22:08 pm »
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I currently have 148 subscribers on YT. If I get 150 subscribers, I'll reveal something for the 2014 edition of the "Best Cards List" in our stream.  ;)
I'd buy that for a dollar! (I mean, i'm your fiftieth subscriber.  gimme reveals. gimme gimme.)

Sure, but unfortunately not before Saturday when I get back home.

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Re: What is the audience for this?
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2014, 03:43:39 pm »
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i will wail, gnash my teeth, and pull at my hair until then.
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