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Author Topic: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks  (Read 3318 times)

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LibraryAdventurer

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+13

So after looking at the contests that have been going on, I added a bunch of fan-made cards to a list of cards I plan to use with proxies a lot of times when I play.  I thought I'd give some testing feedback to the authors of the cards.  So in the past couple days, I played three games using the cards Investment (by LastFootnote) and Voyage (by markusin).  I ended up modding both of the cards from their original forms in ways that I think makes an improvement.

Investment: The first game I played with just myself using three characters (I choose a strategy and a little personality for each player and play in-character).  The investment card was a dead card the first couple times it was drawn because it was either drawn as the only action in a hand, or just drawn without an action I wanted to invest.  So, when I played with two real players in the second two games, I added a +$1 at the top, so it would do something on the turn that you play it (even if you play it without another action in hand).  I think that was the only tweak I made:

Investment
$5 cost  Action
+1$. You may choose an Action card from your hand. Set aside this and the chosen card (face up). Return them to your deck at end of game. When you play an Action card, +$1 per copy of it you have invested.

It worked very well in the two games we played with it, fun and useful but not overpowered.  Of course, it works best with a cheap cantrip (or village), like wishing well.  In the game I invested in wishing wells, pawns were the only source of +Buy on the board, but I had a couple big turns playing 3 or 4 wishing wells and then a pawn.  Anyway, we liked the card.

Voyage: There was originally a weird part at the bottom of the card which would run out the pile of Voyages really fast.  I knew I wouldn't like that part, so I dropped it. Then, in the first game with myself, it was slightly disappointing with the same problem investment had at first -that it usually didn't do anything on the turn it was played, even though it was nice for the next turn.  So here's the version we used in the second two games:

Voyage
$5 cost  Action-Duration
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal 3 costing from $3 to $6. Put those cards on top of your deck in any order. You may put one revealed card costing less than $3 into your hand. Discard the rest. At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards.

It seems a minor change to allow the player to keep one of the revealed cheap cards in hand and it makes the card do something helpful for the turn it's played (even when you don't have extra actions to draw the cards you just put on top).  This also worked well in the games we played.
Both cards were put to good use.

So... I was thinking about continuing to do this kind of post when I play with cards designed by the community here.  Is posting this feedback helpful?  Do you think anyone might be offended when I make tweaks to their card when I use it?

LastFootnote

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2013, 09:02:14 am »
+3

Hell YES it's helpful! Thanks for playtesting Investment! I will strongly consider your change, and by that I mean that it (or a change like it) will likely be added the card unless my own testing strongly veers in the other direction.

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 12:44:06 pm by LastFootnote »
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Polk5440

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2013, 01:27:18 pm »
+2

So... I was thinking about continuing to do this kind of post when I play with cards designed by the community here.  Is posting this feedback helpful?

Definitely.

Quote
  Do you think anyone might be offended when I make tweaks to their card when I use it?

I hope not!
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markusin

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2013, 02:00:55 pm »
+5

I'm in joyous disbelief that, of all the cards submitted for the Treasure Chest design contest, you decide to playtest Voyage, a card I thought I overbuffed at the last second. Not only that, you came up with a fix for the biggest problem I had with it: that it doesn't stack if you play 2 on the same turn. With your change, it does.

Edit:okay, it still doesn't stack, but at least the first on is useful somewhat without becoming way OP.

Also, playtesting Investment is really awesome. I remember thinking that the premise of the original card proposed by LF was really cool.

I think you can make a lot of people happy by continuing to do this kind of thing. There are a lot of great ideas people come up with, but the creators sometimes don't have time to playtest them.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 02:04:44 pm by markusin »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2013, 03:49:41 pm »
+4

Quote
  Do you think anyone might be offended when I make tweaks to their card when I use it?

I hope not!

My take on this is that it's extra cool if you test it as-is first, then make tweaks if you feel they're necessary, like you did with Investment. I wouldn't be offended if you made any tweaks before testing a card, but depending on how radical the changes are, your testing may or may not actually be useful to the card's author. Like if you had changed Investment to just say "+4 Cards" and that's it. Not very useful.

But to clarify, I found your feedback in this case very useful. The most important feedback you can give a card's author is, "Is this card fun to play?" Balance is important, but if a card's imbalanced, it's often not fun to play anyway. If a card's just no fun, then it's a dud and not worth making even if it's perfectly balanced. So fun is more important than balance in that respect.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 04:26:34 pm by LastFootnote »
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Nic

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2013, 04:54:59 am »
0

While we're on the topic, I have been getting some playtesting in over the past month. Mainly Ascetic and Landlord, but I've also gotten in games with Mortuary, Prefecture, and Indulgence. I've been meaning to post about it for a while, but I haven't found the time. I'll start my own thread for it, but if you're interested in the tweaks, here goes.
Quote
Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Cards
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.
This guy definitely needs some draw to keep from whiffing, and this seems to be the sweet spot. It's a fun way to get rid of Coppers while getting a slight edge in points, but it's impossible to build a deck around it like you can with Bishop or Goons.
 
Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action +1 Buy.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.
Landlord could use a +Buy somewhere in order to make good on its potential as a Victory card. It's quite fun as-is, and it's nice to buy a Lab guilt-free when you're supposed to be greening. But just like people predicted, the person with the most Landlords invariably lost, because there was no way to sneak a three-pile.

Quote
Mortuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may trash a card from your discard pile or hand.

While this is in play, when you trash a card costing $2 or more, +1 Card.
Playtesting this guy had a different lesson; it would be a bad idea to change anything. A non-terminal Hermit already neuters a lot of attacks, and if were any better you would be actively hoping to get junked. Maybe the bonus could proc on cards $1 or more, but one of the Shelters already has an on-trash benefit.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 10:15:29 pm »
0

Okay, I wanted to test out some more fan-made cards, but I just realized that I made significant changes to one of them before playing with it (and it probably still needs a tweak).  So I'm not sure if that would count as positive feedback or just 'here's my version of this card'.  The other card I played two games with I liked, but the people I played with didn't, and even I liked it less after playing with it than before.  So maybe I'll pass on the feedback for those particular cards and go on to test a couple others...

LastFootnote

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 07:58:03 am »
+1

Okay, I wanted to test out some more fan-made cards, but I just realized that I made significant changes to one of them before playing with it (and it probably still needs a tweak).  So I'm not sure if that would count as positive feedback or just 'here's my version of this card'.  The other card I played two games with I liked, but the people I played with didn't, and even I liked it less after playing with it than before.  So maybe I'll pass on the feedback for those particular cards and go on to test a couple others...

"We didn't like the card," is very useful feedback. The more information you can give about why you didn't like it, the better. But even just, "This wasn't fun," is helpful. I would be very interested in hearing which card this was, especially if it's one of mine.

I'm curious about the other card too, even if it's not the original. We can learn something, even if that something doesn't apply to the original card.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 08:05:01 am by LastFootnote »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 10:54:01 pm »
+1

The cards I played with were a modded version of Majordomo by Robz888 and Ring Leader by Powerman.

Here's my version of Majordomo that we played with:

Majordomo
$5 - Action
+1 Action. Discard a card. If it is a… Victory card: +2 Cards, Treasure card: +$3, Action card costing at least $2: +3 cards.

This worked well as a high-end $5 cost card in the two games I played (the original is $4 cost), but we didn't have any dual-type cards in those games.  I think this would probably be a bit overpowered with dual-type cards.  Of course, I could always specify "non-action victory card", and then there'd only be one OP edge case (Harem), and that's not so bad.

The only change I made to Ring leader was one suggested in the thread to make it look at 3 cards instead of 4:

Ring Leader
$3 - Action – Attack
+2 Cards.
When you buy or play this, each player (including you) reveals the top 3 card of his deck, discards one that you choose, and puts the rest back in an order he chooses.

I liked it pretty well, but the two people I was playing with didn't think it was very fun. (I think part of the reason they didn't like it was that one of the games we played with it also had Lookout which is similar except without the attack and they like Lookout better.)

I'll make the disclaimer of my playtesting that neither me nor the people I normally play with are very good players, and the people I play with aren't familar with the cards that I don't own (I only have Intrigue and Seaside so far).  Just FYI.
Edit: The next cards I'm planning on playtesting are Patrol by Watno and Drift Bottle by ray.  Also next time, I'll start a new thread...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 11:16:30 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Asper

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 06:02:34 pm »
+2

I don't know if it really matters, but i'd like to mention i agree with what LastFootnote wrote. Most of us are very happy (possibly even a bit flattered) if their cards are playtested by strangers. It's sometimes extremely hard to see flaws in your own designs, also when playing a "solo test", because you have a certain idea how a card has to play in your head.

So go on and +1 :)
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ray

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Re: Trying out some fan-made cards (Investment and Voyage) with tweaks
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2014, 02:20:42 am »
+1

The cards I played with were a modded version of Majordomo by Robz888 and Ring Leader by Powerman.

Here's my version of Majordomo that we played with:

Majordomo
$5 - Action
+1 Action. Discard a card. If it is a… Victory card: +2 Cards, Treasure card: +$3, Action card costing at least $2: +3 cards.

This worked well as a high-end $5 cost card in the two games I played (the original is $4 cost), but we didn't have any dual-type cards in those games.  I think this would probably be a bit overpowered with dual-type cards.  Of course, I could always specify "non-action victory card", and then there'd only be one OP edge case (Harem), and that's not so bad.

The only change I made to Ring leader was one suggested in the thread to make it look at 3 cards instead of 4:

Ring Leader
$3 - Action – Attack
+2 Cards.
When you buy or play this, each player (including you) reveals the top 3 card of his deck, discards one that you choose, and puts the rest back in an order he chooses.

I liked it pretty well, but the two people I was playing with didn't think it was very fun. (I think part of the reason they didn't like it was that one of the games we played with it also had Lookout which is similar except without the attack and they like Lookout better.)

I'll make the disclaimer of my playtesting that neither me nor the people I normally play with are very good players, and the people I play with aren't familar with the cards that I don't own (I only have Intrigue and Seaside so far).  Just FYI.
Edit: The next cards I'm planning on playtesting are Patrol by Watno and Drift Bottle by ray.  Also next time, I'll start a new thread...

Glad to see someone showed some interest in the card.
This card had been added to our game box already.
If you had not tried the card yet, here is the remade version: (remove the useless mat and unexpected combo with on-trash ability)

Drift Bottle
Type: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards.
You may gain a card with Drift Bottle Token on it and discard a card per $ it costs.
You may move the Drift Bottle token to a card costing between $3 and $6.
Setup: Put the Drift Bottle token on Silver.
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