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[Robz888]

I'm a huge skeptic of Adventurer. If it's better than Scout, it's not by much. And really, it's the only card in the game where one can easily say, "miscost!" It just would work much better at $5. At $6, you virtually never want it, and I don't think I've ever purchased it on Goko, maybe once or something.

But this highly interesting Kingdom made it a worthy buy.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131218/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1387393687738.txt

Code: [Select]

Baron, Scavenger, Golem, Baker, Counterfeit, Mystic, Soothsayer, Tribute, Adventurer, Grand Market
The presence of Baker allows for a Soothsayer opening. Then what? SCSN opts for the engine, and there's definitely something to it, with GMs, Bakers, Golem and Scavenger. Lack of trashing makes it not so automatic, though.

He Soothsayers me, causing me to draw an early $8. I decide from then on that I'm just going to try to outrace the engine with a BM deck. I pick up 2 Counterfeits (such a strong card), which will do a little bit of Copper clearing for me and also get the most bang out of the Golds I'm gaining from my Soothsayers.

On a mid-game $6, I decide that Adventurer is the right call, over Gold or a third Counterfeit. The reason: I actually have a decent number of Golds in my deck relative to Copper, and only one other terminal (Soothsayer). What I didn't realize is that the Adventurer works really nicely alongside my Counterfeits when I am able to draw them together, because Counterfeit lets me do something with that Treasure and gives me a +buy.

I don't know how much of this game was luck, it ended up a bit lopsided. On a side note, my current thinking is that Soothsayer is a not-so-great card for an engine player trying to play against a money deck if he doesn't have his engine going yet, because that extra card is so useful to my deck, and he's not cursing me constantly enough for it to hurt me. But this might just be an extreme example of that.

[Polk5440]

I really enjoy games like this one. Thanks for sharing.

On a side note, my current thinking is that Soothsayer is a not-so-great card for an engine player trying to play against a money deck if he doesn't have his engine going yet, because that extra card is so useful to my deck, and he's not cursing me constantly enough for it to hurt me. But this might just be an extreme example of that.

I am coming to the same conclusion. Lately, I've tried delaying buying Soothsayer by a shuffle or two rather than opening with it. I don't know. The extra card early versus Curses early is a tough thing to value. Both are stronger in the early game (Cursing early is better for you, extra card is better for them) because the effects on early hands compound over the course of the game. What's their relative strength, though? And does that change over the course of the game?

I think my initial rule of thumb with the card (buy it when I would buy Witch and if I want it, get it ASAP) is not right.

[sudgy]

Just a random note, I think Scout is fine priced at $2 or $3.

[Warfreak2]

Soothsayer isn't good for building an engine - it doesn't slow down the opponent in the short term, and it floods you with Gold. Soothsayer is more suited to a BM deck, a slog, or a combo - Soothsayer/Counterfeit for example - or adding to an engine later, once the draw is there and the economy needs to be built.

[Robz888]

Just a random note, I think Scout is fine priced at $2 or $3.

I think it would still be the worst card in the game, or at least in its virtual tie with like Adventurer and maybe Harvest or something.

The price at which it stops being absolutely terrible is I think $0.

[ConMan]

Just a random note, I think Scout is fine priced at $2 or $3.

I think it would still be the worst card in the game, or at least in its virtual tie with like Adventurer and maybe Harvest or something.

The price at which it stops being absolutely terrible is I think $0.

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH ROBZ

[ashersky]

The price at which [Scout] stops being absolutely terrible is I think $0.

How often would you gain it if it was like this?

Scout
Action - $4
+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Victory cards into your hand. Put the other cards on top of your deck in any order.
—
In games using this, when you gain a Victory card, you may gain a Scout.

[Robz888]

The price at which [Scout] stops being absolutely terrible is I think $0.

How often would you gain it if it was like this?

Scout
Action - $4
+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Victory cards into your hand. Put the other cards on top of your deck in any order.
—
In games using this, when you gain a Victory card, you may gain a Scout.

I've mentioned this exact thing before... yes, this would make it much better. But the price would then be irrelevant, except in a trash for benefit sense.

Scout is not worth paying for. It's not a bad card, it doesn't hurt you, it's just not worth paying for. It's better than nothing, so if the choice is "nothing" or "Scout," you actually will take Scout.

[WanderingWinder]

Scout is SOMETIMES better than nothing. Often not though.

[Awaclus]

Scout is SOMETIMES better than nothing. Often not though.

Yeah, usually nothing is better than Scout!

[DG]

Soothsayer isn't good for building an engine - it doesn't slow down the opponent in the short term, and it floods you with Gold.

An action that lets you gain 6 cost cards can be very good payload in an engine with remodels, apprentices, or even upgrades. The problem is really that the soothsayer pollutes decks with the curses but also accelerates the game with the card draw, meaning that there isn't time to build the engine. The golem in your example game was always likely to be too late.

[KingZog3]

Scout is SOMETIMES better than nothing. Often not though.

Yeah, usually nothing is better than Scout!

I played a crazy weak board where I had a Market, Harem, Scout thing going, along with another cantrip. The reorder was essential for the cantrips, and picking up Harems was great. Just saying.

[jaybeez]

Really cool game, thanks for posting.

What would the dream Adventurer board really be?  I think whatever it is, it would include Chapel, Tunnel, Counterfeit, a village (Worker's I think, possibly Hamlet), and Warehouse.

[Warfreak2]

Soothsayer isn't good for building an engine - it doesn't slow down the opponent in the short term, and it floods you with Gold.

An action that lets you gain 6 cost cards can be very good payload in an engine with remodels, apprentices, or even upgrades. The problem is really that the soothsayer pollutes decks with the curses but also accelerates the game with the card draw, meaning that there isn't time to build the engine. The golem in your example game was always likely to be too late.

Right, it's more of an engine payload. If you want an engine that plays saboteur every turn, you don't open saboteur.

[Schneau]

Really cool game, thanks for posting.

What would the dream Adventurer board really be?  I think whatever it is, it would include Chapel, Tunnel, Counterfeit, a village (Worker's I think, possibly Hamlet), and Warehouse.

Probably not Chapel actually. Adventurer is most useful if you need to skip some bad cards to get to your Treasures, but have managed to get rid of your Coppers. So, I'd replace Chapel with Moneylender here.

[brokoli]

Just a random note, I think Scout is fine priced at $2 or $3.

I think it would still be the worst card in the game, or at least in its virtual tie with like Adventurer and maybe Harvest or something.

DON'T TALK ABOUT HARVEST

[terminalCopper]

Adventurer's dream board needs platinum.

It might also have stonemason.

[Davio]

Really cool game, thanks for posting.

What would the dream Adventurer board really be?  I think whatever it is, it would include Chapel, Tunnel, Counterfeit, a village (Worker's I think, possibly Hamlet), and Warehouse.

Soothsayer is interesting in that it does two things that make a case for Adventurer.

If played by yourself it gives you Gold(s) to draw.
If played against you, it gives you Curses to skip.