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[flies]

I think you want to add something to your definition of engine about minimal deck size. I don't want to consider a golden deck an engine (but maybe you would). And if your deck is 5 Curses (and nothing else), that's certainly not an engine (and probably you have to try pretty hard to get a deck of 5 Curses).

You'd need a trasher that trashes itself.  Death cart... Any others?

[AJD]

I think you want to add something to your definition of engine about minimal deck size. I don't want to consider a golden deck an engine (but maybe you would). And if your deck is 5 Curses (and nothing else), that's certainly not an engine (and probably you have to try pretty hard to get a deck of 5 Curses).

You'd need a trasher that trashes itself.  Death cart... Any others?

Island. Someone else's Bishop.

[flies]

I think you want to add something to your definition of engine about minimal deck size. I don't want to consider a golden deck an engine (but maybe you would). And if your deck is 5 Curses (and nothing else), that's certainly not an engine (and probably you have to try pretty hard to get a deck of 5 Curses).

You'd need a trasher that trashes itself.  Death cart... Any others?

Island. Someone else's Bishop.

Island I'll grant, tho it's slightly gray.  Stuff other players do doesn't count, tho, fo srs.  Too many options there -- knights, saboteur, highway/swindler... 

[blueblimp]

I think you want to add something to your definition of engine about minimal deck size. I don't want to consider a golden deck an engine (but maybe you would). And if your deck is 5 Curses (and nothing else), that's certainly not an engine (and probably you have to try pretty hard to get a deck of 5 Curses).

You'd need a trasher that trashes itself.  Death cart... Any others?

Island. Someone else's Bishop.

Band of Misfits as whatever (say Chapel), then as Embargo.

[florrat]

I think we're slightly off-topic... Maybe we should start a new topic "How to define an engine" and maybe one "How to get your deck down to 5 Curses solitaire" (although there have been quite a few topics already about emptying your deck, and this is slightly easier)

[DG]

Scavenger + stash is quite engine like. I do like the concept of treasure engines.

[Davio]

How about the HoP/Mandarin Golden deck?

Copper-Silver-Gold-(random treasure providing $2)-Horn of Plenty
Play regular treasures, play HoP to gain Mandarin to put everything back, buy Province.

Is it an engine? It's quite crafty though.

[Jean-Michel]

How about the HoP/Mandarin Golden deck?

Copper-Silver-Gold-(random treasure providing $2)-Horn of Plenty
Play regular treasures, play HoP to gain Mandarin to put everything back, buy Province.

Is it an engine? It's quite crafty though.

This could be even more awesome with Potion and Vineyards on the board.

If non-BM money decks were engines, Venture decks would also be engines. I don't think they are though, they are... What, money engines?

[Awaclus]

Another good definition of an engine deck is this: if your opponent goes AFK every time it's your turn and he isn't slow-rolling you, you are playing an engine deck.

[Davio]

My engine definition is: With an engine, you can play the same cards more often than if you wouldn't have built an engine.

[PSGarak]

My engine definition is: With an engine, you can play the same cards more often than if you wouldn't have built an engine.

This lines up with my alternative "reshuffle frequency" definition.

[flies]

but golden decks are not engines.  combos (scavenger/stash) are also not engines.

[Awaclus]

but golden decks are not engines.  combos (scavenger/stash) are also not engines.

Aren't golden decks combos? Also, I think that engines are kind of combos, too.

[KingZog3]

but golden decks are not engines.  combos (scavenger/stash) are also not engines.

Aren't golden decks combos? Also, I think that engines are kind of combos, too.

They are generic combos. Like +actions then +cards. They combo, but lots of cards fit into those categories. Only 1 card has the on gain of mandarin.

[Polk5440]

Isn't this type of argument why WW wrote his 5 deck types article? To provide some kind of delineation? But then that wasn't good enough because what's the hard line between engine and combo?

I like thinking about decks on a wheel with the five idealized types around it as spokes. Real decks end up somewhere on that wheel.

[KingZog3]

I like thinking about decks on a wheel with the five idealized types around it as spokes. Real decks end up somewhere on that wheel.

Unlike those fake decks. I hate those phonies.

[theory]

Maybe he's referring to imaginary decks, which as we all know is on a different axis.

[AJD]

Maybe he's referring to imaginary decks, which as we all know is on a different axis.

On the plus side, they can be bought with potions.

…well, on the +i side, I guess, anyway

[Marcory]

Are you sure that's not too complex for Dominion? 

[qmech]

Maybe he's referring to imaginary decks, which as we all know is on a different axis.

On the plus side, they can be bought with potions.

…well, on the +i side, I guess, anyway

I've always been a fan of conjugate Dominion.  It's best not to mix it with the usual stuff though unless you're prepared for things to get real.

[Powerman]

Discussing if something actually is an engine seems pretty stupid to me because A) it doesn't help at all in playing those specific decks (Golden deck, HoP golden deck) and B) in non-specific examples, we know if we're playing an "engine".  Maybe it's a small engine or a big engine, but you show a game report to any random decent player on the forum, and you'll get basically the same answer as to what type of deck player X went with.

[Warfreak2]

Yes, it's not useful, but stamp-collecting is fun.

[blueblimp]

Discussing if something actually is an engine seems pretty stupid to me because A) it doesn't help at all in playing those specific decks (Golden deck, HoP golden deck) and B) in non-specific examples, we know if we're playing an "engine".  Maybe it's a small engine or a big engine, but you show a game report to any random decent player on the forum, and you'll get basically the same answer as to what type of deck player X went with.

It could be helpful if you want to answer a question like "what proportion of games are won by engines vs BM+X vs rushes vs etc." automatically by scanning logs.

[GendoIkari]

Yeah, Butchering a Curse is almost always better than playing a Monument (go ahead, edge case me, bro).  I dare say it's a very strong play.

Coppers and Curses are gone, and you're playing a Gardens deck. The Curse is the 30th / 40th card; it ups your Gardens. Or, more simply, you're playing Fairgrounds and the Curse ups those.

[Marcory]

You can throne room/KC/Procession a Monument; TR/Monument is a reasonable alternative to Throne Room/Butcher when you have only 1 curse in hand, and KC/Monument probably is superior to KC/Butcher in that circumstance--though of course the kingdom and the stage of the game would determine whether you want more VP or coin tokens.

More exotically: if your deck consists of KC/Scheme/Bishop/Platinum/Platinum/Colony/curse and your opponent has Mountebank or Masquerade, you would want to keep the curse to defend yourself against their attacks. In that case, if you had to buy an extra card, you'd prefer to have Monument than Butcher. (Granted, I'm not sure why you'd want either card in such a scenario, but we're edge-casing here.)