15976
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Where's the official app?
« on: April 28, 2012, 05:00:32 am »
No, they are both future incarnations of The Doctor, also starting with D.
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15977
Solo Challenges / Re: Geronimoo's challenges - The Black Market
« on: April 28, 2012, 04:24:16 am »
Is there any way on Iso to dictate what cards are in the BM deck?
If not.... Ugh. >.>
If not.... Ugh. >.>
15978
Dominion Articles / Re: Throne Room
« on: April 27, 2012, 02:00:07 pm »I haven't tested it, but a Throne Room on a Feast provides two cards, so I'm not sure, the Treasure Maps may set off twice. (I'm also not sure why the Feast thing works, but it does).
Feast doesn't have a conditional clause that states that in order for a card to be gained, Feast must be trashed.
Fair enough. While it isn't logical to me, as you can't trash a card twice... since it doesn't specify "if you do", I can see why it would work. Damn you grammar rules!
15980
Rules Questions / Re: loophole?
« on: April 27, 2012, 01:34:56 pm »You use copper to buy silver and gold collecting more money as you go along your hand is nearly always Buy Money with very little action.
That's what I thought. See the first half of my first post.
15981
Dominion Articles / Re: Throne Room
« on: April 27, 2012, 01:32:42 pm »But if your hand is Throne Room-Treasure Map-Treasure Map-Treasure Map, you can get 8 Gold on deck with only 3 maps!I don't think you can. Treasure map says "If you do trash two Treasure Maps", but you can only trash the first treasure map once.
(not a serious comment)
I haven't tested it, but a Throne Room on a Feast provides two cards, so I'm not sure, the Treasure Maps may set off twice. (I'm also not sure why the Feast thing works, but it does).
15982
Rules Questions / Re: loophole?
« on: April 27, 2012, 01:13:15 pm »
I believe you are talking about the difference between what is called "big money (BM)", where all you do is buy treasure and VP cards, and an engine, where you use the 10 kingdom cards to produce a faster strategy? (This is, of course, an overs implication). Am I correct?
If all you have is the Base set, Big Money (or Big Money + X, where X is 1 kingdom card), will usually be dominant. There are few boards where it will fall to an "engine". This is largely due to the general flavor of Base cards. Nothing strings together quickly enough to beat 18 (BM) turns, or BMX (often Smithy) in 14 turns.
The best advice if you want to move away from that into more complicated play, is to grab a few expansions. Intrigue allows for some basic engines, seaside gets fun (try fishing village and wharf).
If there is a misunderstanding in the rules though, it would help to know exactly how you are currently playing. Your turn starts with 5 cards. You may play one action, and you have one buy. You may play any or all of your treasures, add up their value, and purchase 1 card costing up to that value. All treasures in play, your hand, and new bought cards go into your discard, and you draw 5 new cards. When your deck runs out and you can no longer draw, you reshuffle your discard.
Any card action that gives $, provides it for that turn only, and is counted with your treasure in the buy phase. Any action that gives you + X action, allows you to play that many more actions this turn, and any action that gives +draw makes you draw those cards immediately.
If all you have is the Base set, Big Money (or Big Money + X, where X is 1 kingdom card), will usually be dominant. There are few boards where it will fall to an "engine". This is largely due to the general flavor of Base cards. Nothing strings together quickly enough to beat 18 (BM) turns, or BMX (often Smithy) in 14 turns.
The best advice if you want to move away from that into more complicated play, is to grab a few expansions. Intrigue allows for some basic engines, seaside gets fun (try fishing village and wharf).
If there is a misunderstanding in the rules though, it would help to know exactly how you are currently playing. Your turn starts with 5 cards. You may play one action, and you have one buy. You may play any or all of your treasures, add up their value, and purchase 1 card costing up to that value. All treasures in play, your hand, and new bought cards go into your discard, and you draw 5 new cards. When your deck runs out and you can no longer draw, you reshuffle your discard.
Any card action that gives $, provides it for that turn only, and is counted with your treasure in the buy phase. Any action that gives you + X action, allows you to play that many more actions this turn, and any action that gives +draw makes you draw those cards immediately.
15983
Solo Challenges / Re: My first solo challenge: The Forges
« on: April 27, 2012, 12:17:15 pm »
I can get a theoretical* of 10 turns.... But actually DRAWING the cards to get anywhere close to that would be insane. Like trying to actually pull off a puzzle 1 solution, but crazier.
15984
Solo Challenges / Re: Geronimoo's challenges - Indiana Jones and the acquisition of a lot of money
« on: April 26, 2012, 05:21:40 pm »
Check - Just ran a pretty good run that accomplished both anyway, so I'm happy with it; submitting now - Looking forward to seeing how much faster it can be done.
15985
Solo Challenges / Re: Geronimoo's challenges - Indiana Jones and the acquisition of a lot of money
« on: April 26, 2012, 05:12:06 pm »
Is it shortest turns to END a game WITH a mega-turn in it, or shortest turns TO the mega-turn?
15986
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Where's the official app?
« on: April 25, 2012, 11:46:54 pm »
O, I fully agree that information of ANY kind has been, well, lacking. And I don't disagree that it's a pretty bad business model. And heck, if they ASKED my opinion, I'd let them know.
But they haven't, and it isn't my place to complain about it. I'm just happy that it IS coming, and happy trusting that extended wait time means a better product. If that trust is misplaced? I'll be first in line to let them hear it. But until then, demanding more, our complaining about things 100% out of our control (as SOME have done, or continue to do) is silly.
But they haven't, and it isn't my place to complain about it. I'm just happy that it IS coming, and happy trusting that extended wait time means a better product. If that trust is misplaced? I'll be first in line to let them hear it. But until then, demanding more, our complaining about things 100% out of our control (as SOME have done, or continue to do) is silly.
15987
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Where's the official app?
« on: April 25, 2012, 11:28:07 pm »"goodness of their hearts" wa reference to the recent complaining about Iso and DougZ.
Take a minute to review your post. Where did it make any reference to Iso and DougZ? You brought up exactly 2 entities - RGG and Donald X. - in the paragraph preceding the quoted statement; how was I supposed to infer that this was a reference to Iso and DougZ?
I think we've established a clear difference in a certain other thread between being critical and being malicious. The only thing preventing people from presenting their honest opinions is the censure that they receive for being ostensibly untactful. But seriously - something's quite not right here regarding the release of the official app, and it should be known, preferably in a nice, civilized manner.
Sorry, the post was in response to baroosma, who it seems ha taken up the mantle of complaining about everything he can think of. There was no direct reference in my post to the previous thread, although the point is still relevant. I don't, at glance, take you to feel this way about all the same issues baroosma does.
However, to your point about making a profit: I agree. I said there is a time and place. Complain about the card game itself if you like. It's a released product that you've paid for. Complain about the app after you have it - I take no issue. But unless you have, and have paid for it already? They owe you nothing.
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Goko Dominion Online / Re: Where's the official app?
« on: April 25, 2012, 11:15:59 pm »There are times and places to be critical. When someone provides you something out of the goodness of their heart, is not one of them.
Uh, hello?
RGG makes a profit
Donald X. makes a profit
Now I'm sure that the folks at RGG and Donald X. enjoy playing and making board games of all shapes and sizes, but saying that they're doing it "out of the goodness of their heart" is blatantly false.
"goodness of their hearts" wa reference to the recent complaining about Iso and DougZ.
15989
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Where's the official app?
« on: April 25, 2012, 11:11:07 pm »should quit complaining and quit feeling entitled.Goddammit I really wish people would stop using this phrase. It really makes me feel entitled to shove a boot up their ass.
That's generally nice that you feel that way and all, but it's a serious issue. The instant gratification, what have you done for me today, you owe me because I say so - it's all ridiculous and condescending.
The world doesn't revolve around you, me, or anyone else here. We are entitled to nothing. RGG doesn't have to release any more games. Donald doesn't have to associate with us. An app doesn't have to be made. They do these things because it brings enjoyment to them, and to us.
There are times and places to be critical. When someone provides you something out of the goodness of their heart, is not one of them. When you have NO insider knowledge of the goings on within a company/production team, is not one of them. Just because the world doesn't meet your wants NOW, is not one of them.
I am excited for, and look forward to, the release of the official app, and know that every day spent not having it, is a day they spent making it worth the wait. Keep up the good work boys.
Cheers
15990
Dominion Articles / Re: Throne Room
« on: April 25, 2012, 10:45:16 pm »
That is only true for actions that provide ONE additional action however, which is why I don't like the comparison that says it is a level 2 city. Because every case is unique, it must be evaluated on a case to case basis.
15991
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: House rule: Start w/ 3 Estates and <you choose> coppers
« on: April 25, 2012, 10:34:46 pm »
University + Scrying Pool becomes fun quickly, especially if workshop is on the board. Then you only need to hit 3 early to kick-start. 4 might still be optimal however.
15992
Dominion Articles / Re: Throne Room
« on: April 25, 2012, 10:20:13 pm »
I think the point was, a level 2 city leaves you with 6 cards, 2 actions, compared to a throne room + lab, which leaves you with 7 cards, and 2 actions. Unless you're just ignoring card draw and pointing out that a throne roomed cantrip is effectively a village - ie. Leaves you with 1 more action than you started with?
15993
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Discussion on non-random game selection and TrueSkill ranking
« on: April 24, 2012, 10:40:30 am »
When I look for games personally, the only things I change are "ranked players only", and "point counter prohibited". I think veto mode is as much a cheat as selecting bias, or as declining games until you get a board you like.
The most unbiased model, I think, would be only to count random (no bias) games (not proposed between players, who could game the system) between two opponents whose name and rank are, along with the board, completely hidden until both sides accept. A player resigning would lose the game, while the remaining player earns nothing (yes, it allows win stealing, but takes away unearned win potential). The games only count for wins when ended on piles or province/colony.
The most unbiased model, I think, would be only to count random (no bias) games (not proposed between players, who could game the system) between two opponents whose name and rank are, along with the board, completely hidden until both sides accept. A player resigning would lose the game, while the remaining player earns nothing (yes, it allows win stealing, but takes away unearned win potential). The games only count for wins when ended on piles or province/colony.
15994
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Throne Room
« on: April 24, 2012, 12:45:57 am »
For me, and I may be way off, I find that I often ignore it, unless I'm:
A) Planning an action heavy deck from the start, with decent trashing, and figure the chances of drawing it dead are slim. In this case I don't care as much about what it pairs with, just that it isn't dead. Still, I won't skip a pricepoint for it.
B) I see a lot of single action cantrips - Lab, Stable, GH, etc. - but NO villages of any kind. Here I know I can draw my deck out easily, but with only 1 action, I need a good reason to. TR chains allow me multiple terminal plays - even when forced to TR a cantrip.
C) Similar to B, if I know that I want more terminals than actions available to me (think Goons + Bridge, with only Worker's Village... Oh gods. Yum.). Here I want to TR-TR-TR... To get multiple action plays off 1 action.
A) Planning an action heavy deck from the start, with decent trashing, and figure the chances of drawing it dead are slim. In this case I don't care as much about what it pairs with, just that it isn't dead. Still, I won't skip a pricepoint for it.
B) I see a lot of single action cantrips - Lab, Stable, GH, etc. - but NO villages of any kind. Here I know I can draw my deck out easily, but with only 1 action, I need a good reason to. TR chains allow me multiple terminal plays - even when forced to TR a cantrip.
C) Similar to B, if I know that I want more terminals than actions available to me (think Goons + Bridge, with only Worker's Village... Oh gods. Yum.). Here I want to TR-TR-TR... To get multiple action plays off 1 action.
15995
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Can NV/Bridge lead to a stalemate?
« on: April 23, 2012, 06:29:30 pm »With the right buy priorities, this occurrence is really really rare.. you only need 6 Native Villages (and that's if you're going for the full 8-buy mega-turn, so even in those rare cases where you end up placing a lot of NV's on the mat, you should just be able to buy 1-4 extra as needed to compensate. I've found it's usually safe to break the no-more-than-2-Native-Villages-ahead-rule once I've hit 6 Bridges (i.e. I only need 1 more), so you can grab extra NV's then, as well.
Also, extra Native Villages on the mat is usually a pretty nice occurrence.. as it likely means a hand with a few of Bridges with the NV to start the mega-turn, and a lot of chances to grab more. With 6 NVs on the mat, for example, you have 5 chances (once you grab the mat) to draw more Bridges onto the mat, and your odds of doing that are much higher with all of the NVs in your hand already.
When going for a NV-Bridge mega turn, how do you decide when to pull the trigger? That is, are you trying to get all the Bridges onto the mat at once, or is it OK to have a bunch of extra NVs on the mat so you can try to pull in more Bridges from those?
If all you've purchased are NV/Bridge, or even if there is a silver in there, you should have a solid idea of how many cards you have in your deck total. Look to see how many cards are on your mat. If you've bought 14 cards (7 each NV/Bridge), and your mat contains 15 cards (4 copper, 2 estates, 3 Bridge, 6 Native Village), then you have 9 cards left in your deck - 4 after you draw your hand. Even if you hold 0 Bridges in hand (meaning all 4 on draw pile), you know you can pick them up.
Generally though, just watch closely what goes onto the mat, and how many of your remaining cards you can draw. Watch your opponent. If he gives you time, wait. If he is putting on pressure, know how many points you can get in a *worst case*, then decide if you can wait, or need to fire at 85-90%.
15996
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Can NV/Bridge lead to a stalemate?
« on: April 23, 2012, 03:31:04 pm »
I find unless I get great draws, I can't smoothly buy 5 bridges while tucking away with nv every turn. Especially as picking up the NV's becomes so simple with bridge in play. It's VERY rare I don't have one silver. Usually I get two. 3 may be a bit high, but is hardly a stretch if you see mirror. You recognize early that having them is going to be an advantage.
At worst, with just one and a spare copper (not hard to grab as the NV pile will empty so quickly, and you're left with spare buys), that's 5 Province's, 1 Duchy. Since he needs a 12 point swing to tie after Provinces, that's still 3 and 5 for him - more than he can get in one turn.
The point stands that most likely the person to fire first will come out on top.
At worst, with just one and a spare copper (not hard to grab as the NV pile will empty so quickly, and you're left with spare buys), that's 5 Province's, 1 Duchy. Since he needs a 12 point swing to tie after Provinces, that's still 3 and 5 for him - more than he can get in one turn.
The point stands that most likely the person to fire first will come out on top.
15997
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Can NV/Bridge lead to a stalemate?
« on: April 23, 2012, 03:22:01 pm »
With 5 bridges in play, and your original 7 coppers, you have 12 coins. Province's cost 3 each. That's half of them at the very least, and there's a good chance you've snagged at least one silver. If you've gotten 3, that's worth 2 more Province's, making 6, giving you a 24 point advantage if he gets the last two. That means he'll need all the Duchy's to tie. So I think you still just have to launch first, and not worry about a stalemate.
15998
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Am I right to be upset?
« on: April 23, 2012, 12:31:23 am »
I don't think it's "gang up" syndrome to point out that many players, yes even experienced ones sometimes, have an irrational fear of buying an embargoed card. Even on a board without trashing or pseudo trashing, one, heck even 2 dead cards aren't going to ruin your game, but a lack of economy will.
If you're scared to buy silver, how do you plan to hit 6? Or 5 with consistancy? One good hand is better than two poor ones. As long as you don't draw your silver and curse together, you're probably better off.
I don't think "not playing with embargo" is a fair answer. It's a strategic element to play, like any curse giving card. I can't see how, even from a late position in 3/4 player it would play kingmaker, ESPECIALLY on a board that did have a means of dealing with the curses.
Look, I'm as guilty as the next guy at failing to these same mistaked from time to time. But I'll be darned if I blame my opponent for something in my control. You'll never learn with a "It wasn't my fault" mentality. We're not here to gang up, we're here to offer advice so that the community improves. I enjoy good competition, and like seeing strong play. But if you beat me, I want to know what mistakes "I" made.
If you're scared to buy silver, how do you plan to hit 6? Or 5 with consistancy? One good hand is better than two poor ones. As long as you don't draw your silver and curse together, you're probably better off.
I don't think "not playing with embargo" is a fair answer. It's a strategic element to play, like any curse giving card. I can't see how, even from a late position in 3/4 player it would play kingmaker, ESPECIALLY on a board that did have a means of dealing with the curses.
Look, I'm as guilty as the next guy at failing to these same mistaked from time to time. But I'll be darned if I blame my opponent for something in my control. You'll never learn with a "It wasn't my fault" mentality. We're not here to gang up, we're here to offer advice so that the community improves. I enjoy good competition, and like seeing strong play. But if you beat me, I want to know what mistakes "I" made.
15999
Solo Challenges / Re: 3 - No buys allowed
« on: April 22, 2012, 07:19:53 am »
I don't see a huge problem splitting them. Non-KC just isn't going to be as fast. You can play it strong, but once KC is added it warps the way cards play. I can't think of any strategy that can't be tweaked to be better with the addition of it.
So the choice as it stands, is try to compete on turns, or try for the bonus point. They can't really coexist.
So the choice as it stands, is try to compete on turns, or try for the bonus point. They can't really coexist.
16000
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Not a misclick
« on: April 21, 2012, 05:47:25 pm »
Grujah, why not TR the KC, playing both KC on remodels, using the first 4 plays to convert plat into colony, the last 2 to convert the colony to a province, and golem to X? You should still win by 6 + X (if X is a VP card)