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Messages - Galzria

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15076
You know, eRobzyon (see, I don't stoop to name calling. I been debate better than anyone here without needing to resort to those tactics), as much as I dislike your odds of being Robz (and I've made my views quite clear), I'm still very cautious and suspicious of the lurkers - as someone else was so kind to point out. After all, while you may be the best fakeRobz here, you're certainly not the only one, and I can't let nonRobz's hide in the shadows pretending any longer. That is far more egregious anti-Robz play than anything I've yet seen.

Your arguments against me are misguided, paper-thin, and at times completely nonexistent - but mostly they're just wrong. Nonetheless, I won't persecute you over making a bad case. Your other actions speak for themselves. For now however, I need to hear from the lurkers before making a decision.

15077
Ah, but I DID leave a note. Something you would KNOW if you were truly Robz.

In fact, I do believe most of the other Robzian's here will support my claim. Just because YOU didn't read the memo isn't my fault. Then again, the simpler explication is that you are not Robz.

 
Okay, note to all: I will be away this weekend, and may not be as responsive as usual. PLEASE ADD ME AUTOMATICALLY TO ANY AND ALL MAFIA GAMES THAT MAY ARISE. I will try to respond manually, but may not be able to check in all that much. And I don't want to miss any games.

15078
do you think pops is above reproach? explain your town read on him, Robz, in light of Galzria's arguments.

Actually, I have no problem with Robz's statement. He's one of my town reads, and like O, I trust him. I would LIKE to lynch Pops, but I've already laid out my case. I'm not going to keep pounding the drum trying to twist peoples arms into joining me. If they want to do so, they can by their own reads and reasons.

I'm tempted by their case against Grooble, but right now primarily see you as my fallback option to lynch. My vote, I think, will stay on Pops where it belongs, but if I feel it's the overall right choice for the town, I'll switch if needed.

15079
Yeah, We want to make sure Al Liars never plays another game of mafia past D1 again.

As Robz, I approve this message.

15080

You hide the fact that you made an immediate vote, in only your third post.  This is breaking the ultimate Robz rule of careful deliberation before voting.  You are far too reckless to be a Robz.

I did not attack you due to your attack on me, except that your unfounded accusations were very anti-Robz behaviour.  This made me suspect you, and that suspicion only grew as the day wore on.  After careful evaluation of your posts, the only logical conclusion was that you were (and obviously, still remain) an imposter!  I see your deceit, Galzrobzia.  Or maybe should I call you... GALZRIA.

My arguments are not fallacious whatsoever, whereas your arguments are built on baseless speculation.

You claim to have grown suspicious of me as the day wore on, yet how could you? I, Robz, was away for 3 RL days on VA, as anybody who was TRULY Robz would know. Hence I only made a TOTAL of 4 posts, and yes, my vote came at 75% of the way through my game-day - a truly Robz timeframe.

Now, I wonder... As I was away skiing for most of D1, and didn't have access to the internet (you'll notice no posts of mine during that span of time), I wonder how it was that YOU seem not only unaware of the true Robz's absence, but that you were also able to post during this time period??

Two lies then!

#1 That your suspicion of me grew as the day wore on. Impossible, as I was absent.
#2 That you're Robz, since Robz would have KNOWN he was absent and couldn't post.

You sir, are a fraud. And around here there's a saying: "Lynch al Liars".

15081
I have no way to prove my claims, but they are true nonetheless.  If I were able, I would have cast 3 votes on Galzrobzia yesterday.  See how he is trying to get me lynched now?  He is clearly threatened because I saw through his facade yesterday into his inner anti-Robz.  I laid a strong case against Galzrobzia and he is now fearful that others will catch on to what I already see.

I stand by what I said yesterday.  Galzrobzia's non-case today only makes me more confidence in my anti-Robz read on him.

Vote: Galzrobzia

The only case you made against me was that I voted for anti-Robz behavior, and stuck to my guns, in a fashion only achievable by a true Robz.

You would have these fine people FORGET that you used emoticons in your very first TWO posts, something Robz would never do. Furthermore, you built your "case" (see above) against me as a counter argument to someone who attacked you. You can try all you want to twist the facts, but indeed sir it was YOU who accused your accuser! My vote on you D1 prior to yours on me stands testament to that.

Furthermore, just because you HAVEN'T used all 3 votes does not excuse the fact that you COULD. For all we know, they could be silent votes, that add in without being seen. Your fallacious arguments reveal your true nature.

Admit it now and save us the trouble of weaseling it out of you!

15082
I would like to suggest that eRobzyon is lying and deserves to be lynched. He claims that he is being trolled by the Mod, but not only have I seen no proof to that claim, Voltgloss's vote count numbers suggest quite the contrary.

He doesn't just list eRobzyon under 3 different name incarnations on the player list, he claims that there are TWELVE people alive, and it takes SEVEN to lynch. Since eRobzyon accounts for a whopping THREE, votes, that means we need 7 of just the remaining 9 players to lynch. Leaving eRobzyon in is a danger to me, and to anybody else who might be misguided into thinking they are Robz.

Unless we stand together now, eRobzyon will quickly be able to run this town. We must reveal him now for what he really is. Let's cast him out before he runs this town!

15083
Where's Volt? I need a vote count! I need to know if...

In all honesty, I'm just curious where we stand. I wouldn't mind switching to Jo, but I want to hear from at least O first. And I would rather lynch Pops still.

15084
UNVOTE

Your unvote has exploded the universe, and now there is nobody left alive. The vacuum of space is deafening.

Twas the unvote heard round the world.

I think we should all lynch Robz for being disingenuous. We all know Robz would never unvote, so he must be hiding something. Certainly a very scummy thing to do. {bold}fakevote: Robz888{SLASHbold}.

15085
UNVOTE

Your unvote has exploded the universe, and now there is nobody left alive. The vacuum of space is deafening.

15086
Damn! Open ended quote! And I can't go back and fix it! Just respond with an @, instead of quoting me.

15087
PEdit: I strongly dislike that Jotheonah is mentioning how much he messed up Day 1 and that he's lost all credibility in almost every friggin post.  I'm still fine with a policy lynch on him.
Anyway, I think we could use a little more sheeping if we actually want this day to end. And I, who has lost all credibility, may as well be the one to do it.

Galzria, there is something to the fact that Jo in this game and Jo in MII represent by far the biggest difference in play among any repeat players in our games of mafia. I was terrified of Jo in MII. Volt was a superior arguer, and Insomniac knew I was mafia... but Jo was the only one who could put together a great argument AND was sort of on the right track about me being mafia. He was truly a player to be reckoned with, and a huge asset to the town. In this game, he's insane.

I agree, and I know Dsell and C.F. also feel (at least to a degree) the same way. Dsell left with his vote ON Jo after all. Axxle, do you think that lynching Jo would provide us much information? If he comes up Mafia, well, great. But if he comes up Town, what does it give us to work with?

Robz, as you're also up on my list of town reads with C.F. and O, I put the same question to you. What do we learn by lynching Jo (for Policy, or because his play HAS been so different) if he DOES come back town? A mislynch here isn't the end of the world, but I would really rather avoid it. I can agree that Jo has been... well, he's looked bad this game. And maybe he WAS trying something new. But it stands as SUCH a stark contrast to how he played town in M-II, that believing his claim is a tough pill to swallow. So I probably COULD be talked into lynching him (I've voted him once already earlier in this game day), but I would want to make sure the merits are stronger than the consequences.

15088
The thing is ... I'm such an easy target. And since I became an easy target, pops hasn't touched me. He's all but insisted I'm town. What is up with that if he's scum?

Well, consider this: Has your crazy given *everybody* here reason to suspect you (Just nod your head yes here)? If you ARE town, who would KNOW that besides you? Hmm? And if you got lynched for your crazy, and *viola!* came up town, who would look good having predicted it? Hmm...

That said, I'm still not convinced you're town.

Honestly, I'm appreciative that your even still considering it. But there's a double standard here, kinda. You say pops is targeting you cause he knows I'm town, you say he's NOT targeting me because he knows I'm town. Either you can't have it both ways, or it's not much of an argument.

Me'n'You, D2, M-II. I used you as a friend so if you got flipped (There were 3 votes on you of 4 needed to lynch) as town, it would vindicate me, and make my case against Kuildeous look great. It DOES work both ways as Mafia.

15089
Jo, I've just about had it with you getting on every single bandwagon that doesn't have your name at the top....

I can't make heads or tails of Jo this game. I liked him better when I knew his role. :(

Then again, when I knew his role was TOWN, this was not how he played. But then, this is a broken record. I just don't know what to do with him here. I'm sorry to say that my biggest D1 regret was not lynching him then, because now I feel stuck with him... not wanting to lynch for Policy, but having a hard time chalking anything he does now up to nothing more than more crazy.

That being said, he HAS had a span today of decent posts. Still... Ugh.

15090
The thing is ... I'm such an easy target. And since I became an easy target, pops hasn't touched me. He's all but insisted I'm town. What is up with that if he's scum?

Well, consider this: Has your crazy given *everybody* here reason to suspect you (Just nod your head yes here)? If you ARE town, who would KNOW that besides you? Hmm? And if you got lynched for your crazy, and *viola!* came up town, who would look good having predicted it? Hmm...

That said, I'm still not convinced you're town.

15091
O and Pops are extremely different. They both have short posts, but O clearly explains himself. He's not an irritant, at all, not the way Pops is.

O has been in the past... but I think that was more MY reaction to his playstyle than O himself. Here, (as I've indicated) O has given me one of the strongest town reads.

15092
I should note that there is SO much more left on the cutting board. But when scum is scummy, it's just hard to choose which quotes to use. I focused *mostly* on D2, although he was arguably at his most scummy in D1. It's certainly when he had most of the town riled up over his play. It's because of that though that I decided to cut much of D1 activity out. If you want even more post from me that includes his D1 scumminess, I can provide it. I just didn't feel it was necessary at this point.

15093
I apologize to all for my absence. I said the other night that I would post when I got home after work, but unfortunately I was held late waiting for a Press Release, and when I got home I had to grab my stuff and rush off to the airport (spent Saturday/Sunday/Monday with Father). He doesn't have a strong enough reception to access the internet from my phone at his house, nor does he use a computer for internet (My god... I don't know how he lives. It was KILLING me to be in a black-whole for 3 days!). The message that was sent to Volt yesterday was sent by my Girlfriend on my behalf. She's been more or less keeping me up to date on the goings on here (though I cannot convince her to play!  :'(). I didn't arrive home until about 3:15 am this morning and went straight to bed. However, I'll be home all of today, and much of tomorrow, so I'll be around some more.

Now, on to the good stuff!

My god are you guys helpless without me! I've never seen so much posting that basically reads "Just waiting... can't do anything else..." - Seriously. I don't know how said it, but unless Pops and I are BOTH Mafia (We're not. I would have to be Mafia for that to be true) there are at LEAST 2 other Mafia out there. I'm appreciative of Robz coming back and trying to get conversation started again on other fronts. But for now, I'm going to stay focused on Pops, because I do think he is the most likely Mafia player in our midst. I've posted my argument in here, but before I post it I'm going through and editing / rearranging to include newer things since my absence, and to make it a little more coherent.

Before I begin, what does a Mafia post look like? What sort of "accusations" do they make to further their case and push a wagon?

From M-II, D1, Robz (Mafia) in response to Morgrim7 (Town):
That said, I claim to be a villager.

Surely you can muster a better defense than "I claim to be a villager." You meant to say, "I am a villager."

From M-IV, D1, Pops (?) in response to Axxle1 (Town):
"If I flip town" can be simplified to "if I flip" or "if I'm lynched", when the person speaking is town.  Sometimes these little Freudian things turn out well, sometimes they don't.  But  like the bonus points here.

From M-IV, D2, Pops (?) in response to Axxle2 (?):
Axxle 2 is one of the scummiest players itt.
I try to contribute and I'm scum.  People can be doing other things than just waiting for Galz to post.

Scum try to contribute.  Townies contribute.

To begin with, there are a few key crimes I would like to center in on Pops for:

#1: Stop right there! That's a foul!:

Referee is a brand of IIoA which is already a little black book tell.  So.

Wait! Before I continue, I would like to point out that Pops rarely EVER quotes. His posts are VERY hard to read out of the context of the conversation happening around them. This is a blunting tactic used to make it harder to go back and make a strong case against him, because you can't always tell to whom he was referring, or why. So I'll do my best here to provide some context (as best I'm able), so that you don't get lost.

The above quote speaks for itself however. It's something he loves to claim others are doing (he used it as the backbone to his case on Axxle), but indeed is something Pops himself has subtly (at times) tried to do himself. Here's a sampling of Pops telling everybody else how to play. Again, most without context (as he was sure not to provide any):

SFS is such a cute poster.  Why did the public at large need to know how many shots you had, SFS?  Did you think about it? Sigh.

pairings without flips are dumb.

Rolefishing behavior is incredibly anti-town, even if it rarely is a useful scumtell.

Everyone stop it.

Vote: Galzria

SK-hunting is one of the strongest little black book tells.  In absence of much else, this is my number one suspicion.  In particular the preoccupation with NKs suggests Galzria is able to kill at night.

Jo stop voting Robz you're being an idjit.

Galzria, the issue with town gambits is that you're lying.  You either lied then or are lying now, because you didn't believe in your Robz case.  That triggers a broad range of psychological effects that read scummily.  So you're left with no one to blame but yourself if you get lynched - you've essentially sent yourself a scum pm instead of a town one and then played the game.

Don't do it again.

Lynch mafia, not scum :/

lynch mafia not scum.

I just don't see Joth being scum.  If Glooble is town he probably knows his twin and joth is town too.  If glooble is scum with joth I doubt he claims twinnage because it could come out wrong.  Glooble isn't a terrible lynch but his posting has improved quite a bit today.  I'd rather lynch Axxle2 or Galz.

@frisk - lynch mafia, not scum.

I finish with those two last because it's something that's been said in almost every Mafia thread to date. It's good play, right? I mean, who cares about how scummy somebody plays, as long as we lynch Mafia, not Scum. The problem is, the way Pops uses this is as a defense. He's basically saying "Yes, I'm playing like scum. Scummy scum. Scummiest scum. But it's ok, because as long as you don't lynch me, we'll be good!"

"Lynch Mafia, Not Scum" is not a defense. It's an excuse. It's an excuse to play any way you wish, and not have to justify it. There is VERY little Scummier than that. Furthermore, when called out on his Referee behavior, and the use of his "little black book" to call foul or get tells on everybody, he came up with this beauty of a hedge:

The tells don't always work.  A fullhouse doesn't always win.  Just makes good odds.

When it's pointed out that the above quote is absolutely NOTHING but hedge, Pops goes for broke:

Idk what hedging is you folk will have to explain it to me.  I've never heard of it before so I can't own or disown the behavior.

Anybody here who believes this deserves to lose this game. Seriously. "Mr. Mafia" himself claiming to have never heard of "hedging your bets"... I just... I don't even... wow. I spent like, 5 minutes laughing my ass off over this. Anyway, back on point. An example:

Q: "Hey Pops, how come your little black book gave you such strong Mafia tells on Townie Axxle1?"

A: "The tells don't always work.  A fullhouse doesn't always win.  Just makes good odds."

Q: "Hey Pops, how come your little black book gave you such strong Mafia tells on Townie Galzria?"

A: "The tells don't always work.  A fullhouse doesn't always win.  Just makes good odds."

Q: "Hey Pops, how come..."

A: "The tells don't always work.  A fullhouse doesn't always win.  Just makes good odds."

Moving on.

#2: Why won't this vote STICK!?!?:

Robz likes to claim that my votes are all over the place. It's true, I vote more than he does. But I always provide a reason for my votes. I always make a case. For example, D1 I voted for Axxle, Jotheonah, Pops, and then Axxle again. D2, I voted for Jotheonah, and Robz. In all, I've voted for 4 people - 3 of which were sincere (Not counting troll votes during trolling times... ah, those were happy times). I agree with Robz that excessive voting is bad. I'm not QUITE as stringent as he is, but I do try to restrain myself. Pops on the other hand...:

If anyone places an upvote they shouldn't remove it (it's like editting a post).

I upvoted Green Opal because I find woodwork lurkers amusing, so there's your explanation.


No-lynching is only a good strategy if there is some reason to believe that dramatically more information will be available on later days.  In a closed setup, there's no reason to believe that. 

Vote: jotheonah

Humor is, actually antitown.  It's distracting and it's not analysis.  It's not necessarily scummy though, it often denotes a certain levity a townie can feel that a nervous mafiate will not.

I'm voting jotheonah because he seems to be letting his opportunity to make a joke distract him from doing any scumhunting.  Also, this particular joke, calling oneself scum, has a delicious irony as scum but matching value as town and thus is slightly more likely to be made by scum.

Someone had a particularly hideous IIoA post, I think it was joth but I'm lazy and not sure.

Power roles are supposed to claim when they are at L-1, a nonvoting player has indicated willingness to hammer, and no one has taken the chance to back down.  Then the player claims a power role or VT.

unvote, vote Insomniac

SFS is a professional poker player. Since he is A) town and B) good at reading people we should all just copy him.

unvote, vote Robz

vote: glooble for now.

I very much disagree with his opinion of Tables.  Though maybe that means I should vote Tables.

Theorel, all my votes this game have been serious, except for my vote where I pretended to copy SFS, that was a trollvote.

This vote is serious. 

Vote: Axxle

His posting has read like a referee and not like a player.
(Bolded last sentence is my own emphasis, to tie into my first point, and because of the pure delicious irony of it)

Vote Captain Frisk

He's also one of my weaker townreads.  PoE.

Vote: Galzria

SK-hunting is one of the strongest little black book tells.  In absence of much else, this is my number one suspicion.  In particular the preoccupation with NKs suggests Galzria is able to kill at night.

Jo stop voting Robz you're being an idjit.

Whew. 7 people voted for so far, 2 of which are confirmed town (Insomniac and Axxle1). I havn't even listed the posts of his made throughout the day (and there are a number) that read as such:

Axxle 2 is one of the scummiest players itt.

Eventually, one of those votes will stick. (One did D1 at least). Pops is fishing for bandwagons. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he just wants to see SOMEBODY get lynched. You know who would make a *great* candidate? Galzria. Here's the problem. He knows I'm town. He also knows that my setting up the 1v1 with him means that if I get lynched he IS the most likely target D3. I mean honestly, can you give me a SINGLE good reason he wouldn't want to vote me right now? My gambit arguable makes me the most suspicious for "lying", right? He was certainly quick to point it out and pound away at that drum... except now, well, he has some magic case against Axxle2 that makes HIM more suspicious than me!

I just don't see Joth being scum.  If Glooble is town he probably knows his twin and joth is town too.  If glooble is scum with joth I doubt he claims twinnage because it could come out wrong.  Glooble isn't a terrible lynch but his posting has improved quite a bit today.  I'd rather lynch Axxle2 or Galz.

Frisk - Yessir, that's a first choice and a second choice. 

Pops would rather not lynch me today now because he KNOWS I'll come up town, and he knows exactly how that'll make him look. He'll claim this next sentence is survivalist (a Mafia tell in his little black book, btw), but I don't MIND being lynched today. When I played for the gambit it was with the thought that if my death brings down a Mafia, that's a damn good trade off. If I can get that Mafia lynched WITHOUT my death, well hell - of course that's better. But if push comes to shove, I don't mind being lynched to vindicate myself and hang the lamp of doom over Pops.

#3: Accountability:

This is arguably the least important of the 3 points, but if you willfully play to add little value to the game, you deserve to get lynched. This is a behavior thing, and unlike above, is a "I don't like the way they've played" argument more than anything else. He has admitted to being capable of playing better. Saying more. Adding more discussion to the conversation. Every time he's questioned about it though, he just turns the other way. "I didn't want the lurkers to get bogged down, so I've only been posting 1 liners"

Playing sub-optimally never helps the town. Ever. Holding back, or being obscure for no reason, causing suspicion and stirring the pot just to "see what happens" without giving a reason or following up with your radical claims do nothing useful. All it does is make it harder for the town to actually get decent reads. If this is town play, it's not town play I want in my town. If it's Mafia play, well then it's excusable - but still not wanted in my town.

In all, the evidence I believe adds up to Pops being Mafia (no sir, not scum, but Mafia). I'm willing to risk my neck to prove it, but I have no reservations in casting my Vote: Popsofctown at this time.




15094
Srsly where is Galzria? Is he ok?

Working out the post now with modifications to include new posts since my absence. Intro explains where I was, but in short (so I can get back to setting everything straight), work ran late Friday, I had to rush to the airport and spent the weekend with my Father, who lives out of service area. My girlfriend sent the message to Volt on my behalf yesterday. I'm back now, and will be home today and most of tomorrow, then back to work (and regularly scheduled programming).

15095
I am the one Robz to rule them all, but really Volt is a bastard and made me a vanilla townie

Quote from: Voltgloss
You are a vanilla townie TAKE THAT!

I believe Insomniac might be Robz, along with me. His post is clear, articulate, factual, does not contain humor, and unlike Morobzm7 and eRobzyon, doesn't use emoticons.

15096
Vote: eRobzyon.

He used emoticons, TWICE, which is very anti-Robz.

eRobzyon is not his true identity. Indeed, I believe he is actually eHalcyon.

15097
This game will have a night start.

And what a night it was.  8)

Which eRobzyon is this? How do I know which one to chalk down my reads on? Are you team Jacob or team Edward?

I claim team Robz - and nobody else can join!

There's only one of us I swear.  Voltrobz is trying to stack the deck against me!  We only get to vote once.  :'(

But you avoided my team queston! Intentional mislead! Scum tell!

I claim you are NOT Robz. He would never ignore an inquiry.

15098
This game will have a night start.

And what a night it was.  8)

Which eRobzyon is this? How do I know which one to chalk down my reads on? Are you team Jacob or team Edward?

I claim team Robz - and nobody else can join!

15099
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: June 16, 2012, 05:56:05 pm »
I feel decent about this team, and would rather TINAS not have last choice, so will not be vetoing it.

15100
Alright, I've written up the post RE: Pops, and just have to paste it in now, but seeing as I've only heard from Glooble and C.F. I'm going to hold off on putting out to give others a chance to talk. SFS, Grujah, Tables, Robz, O, and Dsell - I would like to hear from you guys. We have 12 people involved. I don't want this to be dominated by 3 or 4.

Go ahead and post it, but I'm unfortunately basically V/LA for the next few days.

No problem. You, Robz, and many others. Enjoy!

I'll post it when I get home this evening.

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