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Messages - Cuzz

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376
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 14, 2018, 08:06:12 am »
I was waiting another day to give him a chance to say anything useful because of time zones but it’s definitely time to vote: SirClemens at this point.

377
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 08:01:42 pm »
Hmm.. I don't think PPS is a strong D1 vote, because he is actually quite likely to make scumslips if he lives long enough. And I think I may still even be voting for him :-/

Catching up on more recent posts tells me I need to re-read Galz, but in the meantime I'll go with vote: robz, which is more gut than usual for me.

Also not really sure of the case on Robz. Space, what is your reason for a Robz vote?

378
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 07:57:57 pm »
Can someone summarize the case on Galz (I’m not counting the pps read list thing as a case)? I’ve been following pretty closely and still don’t really see it.

379
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 06:09:38 pm »
also unvote

380
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 06:09:02 pm »
Cool, iguana is confirmed town

huh?


381
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 01:27:27 pm »
Scumslips are barely a thing anyway and this is a seriously weak one at that.

I've already admitted it was weak. It's no weaker than iguana math and I'm not ripping into anyone over that.
I am, however, entirely the wrong person to try to tell scumslips barely exist seeing as most glaring examples are my own.

I guess you can use it to give you a read on Galz if you want, though I disagree with the argument. My indignation is more about calling it a “scumslip” which I guess means something much stronger to me than it does to you.

382
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 12:47:05 pm »
Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria

Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.

Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.

Oh wait you were serious about this? The idea that leaving yourself off a read list is indicative of a scum alignment is a pretty extraordinary claim and I will need some extraordinary evidence to believe it.

It's every bit as good as the iguana long division method for finding scum D1. As I recall everyone ever has put themselves on the list. To not do so is a willful act but not necessarily a conscious one. I'm placing my bets on this being a scumslip.

This seems insane to me and I am fairly certain that I have never done this. One does not need to spell out a read of onesself because one knows that one is town (or is lying) and one also knows that all other players expect one to present onesself as town. I find it more scummy when people go out of their way to say "hey all I'm town in case you didn't know," though I feel like town does it enough for it to be pretty much null.

Scumslips are barely a thing anyway and this is a seriously weak one at that.

383
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 11:01:58 am »
I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method.

I know all of these words individually but I have no idea what this means on the whole


Iguana did the early cryptic BS thingy and everyone decided to let that be a basis for picking sides on the "issue" and then trying to base reads of how people responded to it. Yes, I know that is how mafia works but I felt like this particular thingy was not worthwhile of doing the mafia thing around yet it has basically molded the D1 mindset and I'll have no part of it, except, you know, the part I'm having of it right now where I just call it null and void.

But, like, people did respond to it and pick sides and there was a lot of discussion about it. So you are deciding to completely ignore almost all of the content and interactions from D1 so far because you didn't like how it originated?

384
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 10:51:39 am »
Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria

Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.

Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.

Oh wait you were serious about this? The idea that leaving yourself off a read list is indicative of a scum alignment is a pretty extraordinary claim and I will need some extraordinary evidence to believe it.

385
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 10:26:13 am »
Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?

People are strange.

Jesus, dude.

386
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 09:58:23 am »
On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.

Vote: Cuzz

Cool! Care to show your work for the rest of the class?

387
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 09:30:34 am »
Not feeling DatSwan

Like, you don't think DatSwan is scum, or you're not feeling any of the things DatSwan has said/done?

388
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 09:29:50 am »
Some reads so far:

Slight townread:
TWM
faust
Galz

Slight scumread:
DatSwan
LaLight
SirClemens

Null:
pps
Space
mcmc
iguana

Robz:
Robz

Literally has not posted yet:
Teproc


389
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 09:21:21 am »
That is, if you find us scummy for reading iguanas post as townie, fine. But unless you're suggesting that it's scum pushing a town narrative on a scum partner after his opening D1 post, then to find us scummy should mean that Iguana gets moved more into the town column.

Ok, but I think you can find 2 people scummy while also thinking it is unlikely that they are scum partners.

So like, to illustrate this, DatSwan's long post is pretty scummy, and the quick sheeping of faust by LL and Clemens on DatSwan is also pretty scummy, but I don't specifically expect a DS/LL or DS/Clemens scumteam.

390
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 09:09:14 am »
And I typically do a DAMA at some point in the game but had taken January off for Dryuary. So haven't done one. Meta joke.

Ah ok missed the typo. I am all on board for some DAMA this game.

391
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 13, 2018, 09:01:12 am »
So DatSwan said some stuff:

Teproc posting 0 times is not alignment telling at all. Stuff happens, he should be prodded but no one here can reasonably say he is lurking - As he just doesn’t do that.

So we just clearly have incompatible definitions of lurking so probably not worth debating this.

I hate the ii discussion because as we go to night 1 all it means is that he will be targeted if he is Town and not if he is skum. Suppose that speaks against potential SK.

I think this translates as: "This discussion is useless because all it means is that ii is confirmed scum if he's alive tomorrow."

??

I completely disagree with the premise anyway, but is that really what you're trying to say? Also what on earth does this have to do with an SK? 

Galz mis reading me is skummy based on every game we have ever played together.

What are you referring to with "Galz mis reading me is skummy" and how is does "based on every game we have ever played together" support this? Can you flesh it out for those of us who have never played with both of you?

It’s February and still no dams posts from TWM so probz skum there.

Huh?

Oh and i think cuz could be skum

vote: cuzz

Care to explain this? You just gave "reasons" for two other people being scummy, but then planted a vote on me with no justification whatsoever.

392
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 11:02:56 pm »
I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method.

I know all of these words individually but I have no idea what this means on the whole

Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria

Is this a serious vote?

393
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 04:07:25 pm »
I can't imagine that Teproc not posting yet is actually alignment indicative of him.

Any thoughts to share on those who have posted?

394
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 04:02:07 pm »
I asked a question which Cuzz answered and now everyone is clear on where he stands on the matter.

Yes, just in case there is any ambiguity, I disliked iguana's post but I also dislike having no posts at all.
Which I suppose your latest vote illustrates.

Do you think Teproc is scummy for not posting or is it more of a prodding kind of vote?

I think it is definitely anti-town and possibly scummy.

395
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 01:48:45 pm »
I asked a question which Cuzz answered and now everyone is clear on where he stands on the matter.

Yes, just in case there is any ambiguity, I disliked iguana's post but I also dislike having no posts at all.

396
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 01:47:34 pm »
That is, if you find us scummy for reading iguanas post as townie, fine. But unless you're suggesting that it's scum pushing a town narrative on a scum partner after his opening D1 post, then to find us scummy should mean that Iguana gets moved more into the town column.

Ok, but I think you can find 2 people scummy while also thinking it is unlikely that they are scum partners.

397
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 01:39:41 pm »
No read:
Everybody else (Space, Teproc, PPS)

Oh, wow, Vote: Teproc yeesh

398
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 01:34:36 pm »
Disagree completely. You're looking at it in a vacuum based purely on numbers. I'm looking at it through the lens of a social construct. Players have alignments, and players have actions/reactions. Those actions/reactions are influenced by their alignments, and absolutely tip the scales beyond a purely mathematical outcome.


Let's look at what you actually said:

Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:

Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana

Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.

To paraphrase: "There are four possibilities. I think one of the ones where iguana is scum is least likely. Therefore he is probably town" This is circular nonsense.

You're talking above about actions and reactions, but your original post said nothing at all about anyone's actual reaction to iguana's post. Like maybe I am missing something, but you were the one trying to frame your argument in terms of the relative likelihoods of 4 possible scenarios and I absolutely do not follow how the conclusion was supposed to follow from anything you said, except possibly as a pure tautology.

Can you break down the second quote above and explain it to me like I'm an idiot?

399
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 11:37:55 am »
Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:

Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana

Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.

Since this has led to some other interactions, e.g. Robz's agreement with Galz, can we take a moment and talk about how utterly awful this reasoning is? You cannot value all other possibilities equally because Iguana is more likely to be town in the first place. Iguana is more likely than not town because there are more town than scum in this game, not because of any argle bargle about how his scum partners would respond to his post.

There is this weird bias where people seem to be subconsiously assuming that everyone starts off with a 50/50 chance of being town/scum and then updates these probabilities from that baseline based on reads, and it leads to a ton of terrible arguments.


Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.

This is fine if you wanna use this as your reasoning, but don't commit crimes against conditional probability in the process.

400
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« on: February 12, 2018, 10:19:56 am »
I mean do you want me to give you thought out and backed-up ideas early D1? I create interactions!

I don’t understand this post.

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