Actually I remember it pretty well, as Dominion was pretty much the first game I learned that wasn't Monopoly/Battleship etc. There's another thread that somewhat deals with this, but the biggest thing is mechanical simplicity - I despised mats at first, as they were a pretty weird concept to wrap my head around. But when starting with Base, the "10 cards at first" thing was straightforward - oh, this is how you play the game! You want cards, some of these cards give you cards! Sometimes you want to buy more things, and some cards let you buy more things! And this card - this card lets you play all of those cards! And it's only $3! BUY ALL THE VILLAGESI dont think its very good for that. You still need ten cards in the first game. And if you understand the concepts, i dont think its necessary to add cards one-by-one anymore.
Good point about 10 new cards in the first game. But I do think adding new cards slowly is beneficial for new players. It's hard for anyone here to remember what it was like when they were learning, [...]
Though my game also had Mountebank buying out curses, Cultist collision was very rare, even though I was buying many of them and had some sort of sifter. I think the "You may play enother" can't be treated as the primary part of the card - it'll be very rare except in the smallest of kingdoms.For instance in a Witch/Cultist match I suspect you want to buy cultist on your first 2 fives and then alternate duchy cultist after that otherwises the curses will kill you when piles run (they will)
I haven't gotten in on that debate in the other threads, but I am quite convinced that you'll want to buy a Witch before Cultist.
Why? Cultists chaining is nice (so you can give out junk more quickly). It also depends if there's a trasher, because once Ruins are low/out, you can trash Cultists for a nice benefit as well, likely putting yourself in position for a Province buy.
The rule doesn't say you put randomizers in the black market deck at all. It says: one of each kingdom cardYeah, but practicaly, that's what my friends and I do IRL. Anything else is insaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaane.
Lets say my draw-my-deck engine desperately needs buys and Sir Martin is the only one on the board. He flips up on my turn when I buy Dame Josephine. Now I have to hope none of the other 3 people in the group hit $5 on their turns or completely replan my deck.I would say it's bad strategy to aim for one card in that situation. Just my take.
Ugh, I hate the wording on Catacombs...Gain a cheaper card. It would have been better if it said costing less.Yeah, that seems...strange.
I believe we're still missing 6 cards.Yeah, 1 Looter still missing, plus Mercenary.
I am thinking this answers that.The reason why I think it should be TR-BoM is that TR says "Choose an Action card in your hand. Play it twice." When you choose BoM in your hand, it is still BoM; it hasn't transformed yet.Impossible, I say, for a few reasons. Chiefly: TR-BoM is impossible. BoM will always transform into something else. It is impossible to ever choose BoM.
This is what I argued. But the Procession ruling is strange then!
Probably because of order. "Trash a card. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it." In the first step, BoM moves into the trash and then turns back into BoM. "it" still refers to the card you trashed, which at the time of the second step, is a BoM. (Rather than, for instance, "Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than the trashed card cost when it was trashed.")
The reason why I think it should be TR-BoM is that TR says "Choose an Action card in your hand. Play it twice." When you choose BoM in your hand, it is still BoM; it hasn't transformed yet.Impossible, I say, for a few reasons. Chiefly: TR-BoM is impossible. BoM will always transform into something else. It is impossible to ever choose BoM.
Nooooo! You're making this much harder than needed.I sort of feel like BoM throne rooms itself. When you play it, the instruction is to play it (again) as a different card. It stays in play, turns into a different card, and I play it again (from in play).
This is incorrect though. As discussed earlier in the thread, BoM's mimicry is not an on-play effect. That is, you don't play BoM and then subsequently play it as something else. Rather, it's very first play is already as something else -- it mimics another card before being played.
Therefore, when you play TR-BoM, TR has no idea that the card being throned was, is, or will be a BoM. It just sees it as a Feast (or whatever you choose). You don't actually play TR-BoM, you play TR-Feast, with the peculiarity that the Feast you are playing is really a BoM in disguise.
Even if that's the case, there's not really, I don't think, such a thing as TR-Feast. There's TR-Card. If it transforms just before you play it (because it says play this as) then it becomes feast for TR to play it the first time. As part of becoming another card, it loses its transforming text until it leaves play, so Smithy wouldn't allow you to pick twice.
But if it becomes feast, gets played as feast by TR, leaves play, becomes BoM again, then the TR plays "it" again and a new selection needs to be made so that TR can play it as some other card.
Some are the actual cards, some are Goku versions (larger lettering).wow, all the card images are so dark.
What strikes me is that the main text on some cards have different size. That looks strange to me, at least when the cards are presented side-by-side like that.
I mean, I can certainly see your side of it, I think either interpretation can make sense, but this is the one Donald has picked for how this card works so I'm trying to explain it.Plus, Donald X's interpretation is what I think the vast majority of players, who will never visit this forum, will interpret the card. Erring on the side of that would make sense, too, if both are plausible.
BoM is a Ditto. It morphed into Feast.Okay, if BoM is a Feast, then it's only a Feast the first time you play it. On the second time Throne Room plays something, which card is it playing?But what Feast? After the first play, there is no Feast that exists anymore. Is it playing the card name Feast? Some arbitrary Feast from the supply?
It's playing the same Feast that it did before. It's lost track of it - it doesn't know where it is! - but so what?Maybe the correct ruling is that if BoM imitates a Feast in the supply, then when Feast says "trash this", then the Feast in the supply gets trashed too?I don't think that's how it works... BoM isn't imitating any particular Feast, it *is* a Feast.
No, I think you're missing something - I read "this is that card" as simply explaining when BoM morphs back into BoM - a clarification, not another step. Remember, the first step is "Play this as if it were an Action card..." and you did - you played it as a TM! So the other TM sees it and they trash.Well here is why I think this way. The Band of Misfits wording is: "Play this as if it were an Action card inSo, how many bugs will Band of Misfits have? I think Doug had an obscure one he never fixed.Some weird interactions with existing cards:
- Scheme needs to choose an Action card you have in play. But if you played, say, both a Village, a Band-of-Misfits-as-a-Village, and a Band-of-Misfits-as-a-Smithy, the interface for this becomes tricky to get right.
- Crossroads looks at "have I played Crossroads previously on this turn". I figure BoM-as-XR should count. Tricky to code though.
- Throne Rooming or King's Courting a BoM: after the first choice of card, it becomes that card, so you don't get to change it the second/third plays.
- Play a BoM as a Treasure Map with another Treasure Map in hand. You trash it and the Treasure Map from your hand. Do you get 4 Golds? TMap says "if you do trash two Treasure Maps". Note that, going by BoM wording, it does not become a Treasure Map until after being played. So I think at the time you trash it, it's not a Treasure Map, and therefore you don't get 4 Golds.
Furthermore, since the card actually leaves play while being played, BEFORE "this is that card until it leaves play" takes effect, it actually becomes a Treasure Map permanently once in the trash. If you Graverobber it from the trash, you can then later play it as a normal Treasure Map to trash it, and at that point it becomes a BoM again in the trash. LOL?- Play a BoM as an Island. As with TMap, it leaves play before the "this is that card until it leaves play" instruction, so it actually is still an Island on the Island mat, and therefore counts for 2 VP at the end of the game.
Well, Donald X. would have to step in, but in my opinion, leaving play means getting trashed or being placed on a mat, so BoM becomes BoM in those instances. Also, I would say it is very clear that you can play BoM as a TM, but you would need an actual TM in your hand to trigger the effect.
the supply costing less than it that you choose. This is that card until it leaves play." Two steps. In Dominion, when there are two steps, you always do them in order.
So okay, let's play a Band of Misfits. First step: "play this as if it were an Action card in the supply costing less than it that you choose". OK, TMap is in the supply, and I choose it, and now play as it. First step: "trash this and another copy of Treasure Map from your hand". Okay, I trash the Band-of-Misfits (which is still a BoM, keep in mind!), at which point it leaves play, along with a Treasure Map from my hand. Next step: "if you do trash two Treasure Maps, ...". But I didn't, I trashed a BoM and a TMap, so I don't get the reward.
Okay, done first step of BoM. Second step: "this is that card until it leaves play". That is, the BoM (which is now in the trash) becomes a Treasure Map, "until it leaves play". Well, it already left play, so too late, it'll need to leave play again sometime later to revert back to BoM.
Yeah. Compared to text-view Iso, it's preeeeeeeetty obvious Goku is a game.dougz@isotropic.org is a registered user on paypal...
In addition to any donations that we would like to make to dougz, we should also ask our companies to make contributions for him taking down the site next week. The productivity they will all start to get out of us will be well worth the donation
So true AND so sad. Good times.
I have a feeling rats are not going to be as good as people think. Okay, Forge two rats into a Province. That requires the collision of THREE cards. And if they don't collide, they're very awkward (Forge often doesn't know what to do with itself, Rats actively destroy your deck). It's like a three way treasure map!As far as I can tell, what everyone is trying to figure out is that Rats looks like pretty much the worst card ever, so everyone is trying to see how it could actually work well, and spot those situations.
You can draw your ENTIRE DECK!I wish I could look at the ending deck composition of my first ever game of dominion. It was with intrigues and I think most of my decks was a terrible hodge-podge consisting of the majority of scouts and probably very little silver, no gold.
Fun times.
You should pat yourself on the back for not going the village idiot route. I remember my first deck fondly - it was cellers, villages and markets. I could draw the whole deck and generate up to $7 on a regular basis!
I think it's funny that the village-idiot mentality is what seems to hook so many people in the first place. Sure, you probably didn't win that game, but I bet it sure was fun to play!
