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701
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: July 02, 2017, 03:39:00 pm »
Urgh, am I really going to have to do full re-reads of everyone left alive? Who has time for that? Luckily the other things I really have to do this afternoon are listening to a bunch of choir repertoire (which stacks nicely with sitting around on the internet anyway), a load of house-cleaning, and going for a run... so the pressure for f.ds procrastination is really strong :-P

First, though, let me get one other thing out of my system. What's the chance of Awaclus not being a true IC? Has anyone else out there worried about it enough to have gone and reviewed all the discussion of possibilities for bus-driving and other role-based interactions now that we've had so many flips and know whose words we should have trusted? I hope this is just my paranoia thinking out loud, or my poor memory forgetting that it's already been covered properly in a discussion I haven't re-read recently enough, but I'd appreciate it if one or two other people would report back on that front -- I feel like it's a less demanding task to delegate than a full re-read, at least! Any takers? :-)

We have

1. No claimed protective townroles outside of Galzria, who is town if Awaclus is scum
2. No real way to doctor/protect a hider in the first place, since action priority etc. I don't believe doctor/JKing Awaclus does anything for TWM either.

So... One shot commuter? In the same slot as Restless Sheeper? (and if Awaclus is scum, we have Galzria and Jake confirmed town getting 2/3 of the rando slots. Did someone else confirm the third random slot?)

TLDR not seeing it.

Did you even read my post? E rr and I all claimed going for the 3rd random slot. e got it and flipped bus driver.

Right, so we have no real confirmation that the remaining scum couldn't have the third random slot instead of SK!e. Either way it's unlikely.

And we choose to believe that town!TWM is truthful when he says he hid behind Awaclus. So i was checking for ways that town!TWM could hide behind scum!Awaclus and still love.

702
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: July 02, 2017, 01:15:17 pm »
Urgh, am I really going to have to do full re-reads of everyone left alive? Who has time for that? Luckily the other things I really have to do this afternoon are listening to a bunch of choir repertoire (which stacks nicely with sitting around on the internet anyway), a load of house-cleaning, and going for a run... so the pressure for f.ds procrastination is really strong :-P

First, though, let me get one other thing out of my system. What's the chance of Awaclus not being a true IC? Has anyone else out there worried about it enough to have gone and reviewed all the discussion of possibilities for bus-driving and other role-based interactions now that we've had so many flips and know whose words we should have trusted? I hope this is just my paranoia thinking out loud, or my poor memory forgetting that it's already been covered properly in a discussion I haven't re-read recently enough, but I'd appreciate it if one or two other people would report back on that front -- I feel like it's a less demanding task to delegate than a full re-read, at least! Any takers? :-)

We have

1. No claimed protective townroles outside of Galzria, who is town if Awaclus is scum
2. No real way to doctor/protect a hider in the first place, since action priority etc. I don't believe doctor/JKing Awaclus does anything for TWM either.

So... One shot commuter? In the same slot as Restless Sheeper? (and if Awaclus is scum, we have Galzria and Jake confirmed town getting 2/3 of the rando slots. Did someone else confirm the third random slot?)

TLDR not seeing it. 

703
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: July 01, 2017, 11:59:33 pm »
Vote: Dylan this is L-1

Reasons:

1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.

You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.

substantially less by the order

Why? More claims have happened by the time I claimed, and yet I still chose to claim one that wasn't safe? Why would lying scum me do that?

Whos after you?

Awaclus -- I guess
Me -- I heavily hinted I was VT all of day 1
LaLight, Ashersky, Iguana -- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
e - I guess
Roadrunner - I guess




704
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: July 01, 2017, 11:49:51 pm »
Vote: Dylan this is L-1

Reasons:

1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.

You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.

substantially less by the order

705
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: July 01, 2017, 10:11:16 pm »
Vote: Dylan this is L-1

Reasons:

1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.

706
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The swingiest card ever
« on: July 01, 2017, 05:19:53 pm »
Quote
Followers is best understood as a weaker version of buying the only Goons off the black market.

That's... the only Goons off the black market is an absurdly strong and swingy option. I don't see how this is making an argument that it's worse than any single attack that has 10 in the supply.


707
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: July 01, 2017, 12:11:23 am »
Galzria? Galzria's not as conf!town, possibly more framable. Or Galzria could be scum himself. If I were scum, unless for some bizarre reason I think Faust has a vig shot i'm shooting Galz every time here.

This is worth exploring. You seemed to start down that road, but then retreat to thinking that Galz must be town and scumreading people who're interested in lynching him. What if Galz being alive is just evidence of him being scum?

You suggest looking at people trying to lynch Galz, which makes a lot of sense if you think he's our last useful town PR, but not if he's possibly the scum. I said back at #4089 that I think he's one of my top two suspicions for today after looking at voting patterns... I still stand by that reasoning, though I also still need to go back and read the stuff I said I wanted to look again at when I wrote the post.

I think Galz is the second most obvTown person here. I think the only reason someone would NK Faust over Galz is to try to play the WIFOM and frame Galzria, or, obviously, if Galzria was the scum he wouldn't NK himself. So thats why I have this seemingly contradictory set of positions.

Mafia almost certainly missed a kill. What do we think caused the missed kill other than Galzria? Because of that, I think it's far more likely that they're trying to set up Galz then Galz being the scum.


708
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 30, 2017, 04:24:07 pm »
Why do we think Faust died last night? Mafia should know with relative certainty that he was out of Vig shots, right? Faust was town, Faust confirmed the two people he vigged, they both died..

I suspect I know why Awaclus wasn't shot instead, but to avoid obnoxious retorts I'll list both cases: If I'm scum, it's too risky to shoot Awaclus. If I'm town, might as well keep someone around who will only vote for a town member.

Galzria? Galzria's not as conf!town, possibly more framable. Or Galzria could be scum himself. If I were scum, unless for some bizarre reason I think Faust has a vig shot i'm shooting Galz every time here.

So I'd look in the pool of (Galzria, people trying to lynch Galzria) as the most likely scum pool, with high prejudice towards the people trying to lynch Galzria. So Sudgy and Dylan.

I don't think I want to lynch Galz at any point in the future TBH, so I'd be losing if he's scum and i'm alive.

Vote: Sudgy

My preference is Dylan but since I'm mostly committing to not voting Galzria everI'll join his wagon.

Preferences: Dylan > Sudgy > Roadrunner/Space >> Galzria >>>> Awaclus

709
  What would it even mean to say "Mountain Pass is strong"? 

I have this same question about all Landmarks. With cards and events, one simple way to think of the ranking is "how often to you buy this"? Or, "if you could choose a card that you can buy but your opponent couldn't, which would you choose"? But with Landmarks, those ideas don't work.

My guess for a meaning "how high is this Landmark ranked" would be something like "how likely are you to play differently because this Landmark is in the game". Is that how other people think of it?

That's how I think of it.
Yes, me too. Then I don't get the ranking of Mountain Pass, because it basically never affects the way you build your deck, other than that you cannot buy cards while paying off the debt.

Mountain pass is essentially an alt-VP in that it throws off the "5-3 province autoloses" paradigm and can enable some slower-to-ramp engines to work. Though it is generally worse at this than all the other alt VP methods.

710
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 29, 2017, 02:03:21 pm »
Like Space, this is the series of events:

> Friction days 1/2
> Awaclus becomes likely!town and I proceed to scum hunt other people consistently (Faust, Ashersky, You, e for that short period obviously)
> Awaclus continues to vote me, professing that it's for the same original reason
> "oh wow you're both so stubborn to be continuing this"

It's beyond wrong, what you're saying is patently absurd to the point of gas lighting. I have played the game. He has not, substantially. There is a fundamental difference that you ignore. 

711
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 1
« on: June 29, 2017, 02:00:13 pm »
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!

Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?

I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.

You're currently the leading wagon, probably mostly because of the disagreement, which is a little problematic if you're town and can provoke more of us into wanting to lynch you anyway. I'm coming round to the idea that stubborn!town is a narrative that fits you. (I'm used to Awaclus, and I've seen instances where his playstyle works, as well as instances where it just serves to wind town up).

PPE 1

I'm sorry what exactly am I being stubborn about? I have gone days ignoring Awaclus and he did not change his vote or view. I've simply accepted it as reality since there's nothing I can do to change the situation. I haven't been voting Awaclus. I have been contributing to the discussions of the town. I have played mafia as much as I normally can ignoring the votes.

I think you have a favorable view of Awaclus and are trying to shift the narrative to reflect that when it makes literally no sense here. I have not taken an action since day 2 about this issue, there's simply nothing I can do to change his voting style as long as people like you allow this anti-town, anti-fun play style to persist through games.

There is no duality in the stubbornness here. If you think there is, you should suggest a behavior I am being stubborn about and what I can change about it.

Unless you're saying "you're stubborn about Awaclus calling people retarded", then sure, I guess. I just find that oddly hypocritical.

712
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 1
« on: June 28, 2017, 08:22:17 pm »
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!

Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?

I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.

713
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 1
« on: June 28, 2017, 07:06:18 pm »
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

714
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 28, 2017, 12:53:23 pm »
I'm fine dying here because it prevents Awaclus's substandard play from losing us the game at Lylo by hammering out of pure salt. And it truly is substandard play, even for the "I play by metagaming for most long term wins across games" philosophy. It only works in the slightest because the prominent f.ds mafia players apparently wish to allow it to work. /rant.

Not convinced me hammering LaLight as opposed to just not being there is the towniest looking thing, but it'd be really pretty desperate for me to do as scum. I guess under the assumption that the scum pair was O-LaLight the situation would be desperate enough for me to try it.

Either way I look forward to postgame justifications of "do literally nothing as confirmed townie" as pro-town play.

715
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 27, 2017, 07:59:04 pm »

716
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 26, 2017, 08:07:13 pm »
Everything I just said was 70% false scum is with decently high probability a strongman, making Galzria's role likely irrelevant.

Still makes no sense to shoot Faust over Awaclus/Galzria tho..

717
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 26, 2017, 07:49:48 pm »
I guess I just directed scum with that... but really that should be common knowledge.

718
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 26, 2017, 07:46:30 pm »
Galz cant jail himself so it made literally no sense for them to NK anyone else, except for some low WIFOM about galz it throws in.

719
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 26, 2017, 06:26:03 pm »
Also why is Galzria not telling us who else is likely!town?


720
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 26, 2017, 06:24:54 pm »
Why is Roadrunner in the pool?

Why did you kill faust last night?

Also I seem to have missed you becoming conf!town


721
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 7
« on: June 26, 2017, 04:05:55 pm »
Why would they NK Faust..?

If Galz is scum grats, because its technically possible, but I'll be playing as if he's conf!town now.

So we have 3 lynches to hit scum out of (Dylan, Roadrunner, O, Space, Sudgy). Still very possible to lose IMO,


722
Not the rarest event, but obnoxiously perfect shuffle luck in a Tournament-Inheritance board, I felt compelled to apologize the moment this happened:

Turn 3
F plays a Tournament.
F draws a Copper.
F plays a Silver and 4 Coppers.
F buys an Inheritance.
F inherits a Tournament.
F draws 2 Coppers and 3 Estates.
F takes 2 VP from Baths.

Turn 4 - Formerly O
F plays an Estate.
F draws a Copper.
F plays an Estate.
F shuffles their deck.
F draws a Copper.
F plays an Estate.
F draws a Copper.
F plays 5 Coppers.
F buys and gains a Province.
F shuffles their deck.
F draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Province and a Tournament.

Game #4686358

723
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: An "Empty the Supply" Variant
« on: June 24, 2017, 06:10:53 pm »
I'm very interested!

724
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 6
« on: June 24, 2017, 04:07:30 pm »
There's no chance of another wagon

No reason to risk a potential Scum!LaLight not hammering at DL

Vote: LaLight

back to couches

725
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 6
« on: June 24, 2017, 04:00:35 pm »
god i hate moving couches.

LL you need to convince me that LL lynch is worse than NoLynch it seems. Shitty position I know.

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