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51

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 24, 2018, 05:50:47 pm »

Vote: Galzria

No posts here in ~4-5 days? Last active today. Posted to sign in/out of M116.

Scummy people currently voting for Galz. Lack of content suggests scum are fine with the Galz lynch going thru. Gkrieg and Lalight/TWM look especially scummy today.

All of that is easily outweighed by Galzria, typically a highly and invested active mafia player AND the primary lynch option right now, not even trying to prevent his own lynch. Town!Galz is so very unlikely to do that, while scum Galz could be letting the bus happen or just banking on his teammates winning post-lynch.

52

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: April 24, 2018, 04:27:19 pm »

Pretty much none of these Hero-To-Gain-Philosopher's-Stone examples are useful interactions, except for the ones Chris listed, and then the first three of Gazbag (and I still don't think Stonemason works the vast majority of times).

You can overpay Potion if you weren't aware, Stonemason is probably the single easiest way to "clone" a Potion buy.

Ah, I've done that before but for some reason I was hyperfocused on the trashing ability.

53

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: April 24, 2018, 03:05:06 pm »

Despite this, you'll find there's a quite easy to find trend that cloning tends to be done at cheaper opportunity cost than gaining. Talisman giving a coin and not wasting an action compared to workshop, Changling being a one card opportunity cost with no action required vs any potential "gain a generic action" card.

Cloning is more restrictive, not less, than generically gaining them. But the cloning cards cost less or give other benefits by working within that restriction.

But this just means that it's even more true that talking about ways of gaining Potion cost cards without Potions is even more relevant in a conversation that started out about a way of closing a Potion cost card.

If it were the inverse, then this would be a good point.. if someone was saying how it's not easy to gain a Potion-cost card, then bringing up Changeling wouldn't necessarily be helpful, because Changeling has the extra restriction of needed to have first gotten a Potion-cost card.

Changling is a solid way to get further potion cost cards without gumming up your deck. That seems like a neat and useful card interaction. Part of why it's a solid way is that cloning a card can be done more easily or with other benefits as compared to gaining a card.

Pretty much none of these Hero-To-Gain-Philosopher's-Stone examples are useful interactions, except for the ones Chris listed, and then the first three of Gazbag (and I still don't think Stonemason works the vast majority of times).

These other examples of "potion gaining interactions" don't really do much to prove any point because they're not actually useful. If the desire is to show that "cloning" isn't particularly effective, it's not particularly compelling because so many of the "gaining" methods proposed are obtuse.

54

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: April 24, 2018, 02:39:06 pm »

Cloning suggests gaining a second copy of a card in your possession or that you're just gaining. It doesn't mean just "gaining things"; that was crj's entire point to start with.

And why is it strategically important to "clone" things instead of just "gaining" them?

This question, of course, is completely irrelevant to anything I stated. I never claimed a specific strategic benefit, just that others were pointlessly expanding a term.

Despite this, you'll find there's a quite easy to find trend that cloning tends to be done at cheaper opportunity cost than gaining. Talisman giving a coin and not wasting an action compared to workshop, Changling being a one card opportunity cost with no action required vs any potential "gain a generic action" card.

Cloning is more restrictive, not less, than generically gaining them. But the cloning cards cost less or give other benefits by working within that restriction.

55

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: April 24, 2018, 01:48:29 pm »

ITT people post pedantic edge cases that aren't even remotely close to any reason interpretation of the word "cloning".

Cloning suggests gaining a second copy of a card in your possession or that you're just gaining. It doesn't mean just "gaining things"; that was crj's entire point to start with.

Outpost and Possession are fantastically awful examples of trying to edge case, too. At that point we're just saying "Council room can clone Scrying pool because you MIGHT draw a potion and a silver to use that +buy with!!"

56

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 24, 2018, 01:02:05 pm »

What if scum are offering up their teammate Galzria for towncred? That would explain Galzria's absence and put FOS on DatSwan in particular,  also gkrieg.

I don't think you can make these accusations until after we know how galzria flips.

That's the beauty of hypotheticals. You can make accusations based off of whatever conditionals you want.

Town overall is quiet, which worries me because that would make sense if Galz was town and scum were okay with letting current momentum ride. But also Galz is exceedingly quiet, which makes very little sense if Galz is town. Makes more sense for it to be scum!Galz hoping I second guess myself.

After all, one of the self-proclaimed strongest town players would never be lurking it out on their deathbed!

TLDR the entire 0 defense given in recent days has shockingly not made me change my suspicions, still plan to lynch Galz. Am open to other suggestions but frankly given how little I can and do trust most of the rest of you it's hard to see why I'd follow one.

57

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 21, 2018, 04:33:56 pm »

If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW aren’t the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

OK so Lalight replaces in and immediately votes. This is unexpected.

Do we think Town!Lalight replaces in at what is very possibly MYLO and votes immediately?

58

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 20, 2018, 08:38:24 pm »

I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.

Fair, but if you're a 1-shot bulletproofer, do you shoot N1 when we don't even know what the distribution of scum roles is and don't have a good read on everyone yet?

Can’t you Bp yourself? And dead townies don’t make the odds of you successfully blocking a shot any better, so the only reasons to wait would be dead scum and scumreads / PR reads

?
Of course they do... limits the maximum potential to a lower quantity, thus raising the odds of success....

If you were to have BP'd a town player who was now dead, it would have been a successful shot to begin with. 

59

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 20, 2018, 11:23:10 am »

Unvote For some reason I forgot Datswan remade his vote count. Probably OK anyways but don't want to leave Galz L-2. Still my intent is on Galz atm

60

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 20, 2018, 11:10:34 am »

Thing that should be obvious:

If Galz avoids being lynched because his hammer of Robz would have been so incredibly stupid to do as scum, then it retroactively becomes not a stupid thing to have done as scum.

Very true. But if I lynch TWMLalight because I found the lurking even scummier, it means not that galz was smart but rather less scum than twm.

Nonetheless Vote: Galzria and hope for the best since it appears twm has no traction

61

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 19, 2018, 07:18:20 pm »

I'm conflicted because Galz really deserves to be lynched. But in that game when I was mason with Teproc I randomly pushed the Space lynch because she was flying under the radar heavily and it worked out.

So you're suggesting pushing a lynch on an under-contributing player? The post right before yours is where Cuzz just admitted to having been a lurker all through the game...

How is this at all relevant when my claim was that TWM is opportunistically lurking today, not the whole game? Cuzz hasn't lurked today.

62

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 19, 2018, 04:41:23 pm »

I'm conflicted because Galz really deserves to be lynched. But in that game when I was mason with Teproc I randomly pushed the Space lynch because she was flying under the radar heavily and it worked out.

63

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 19, 2018, 04:27:31 pm »

Not really relevant, but can't we always back into a win due to SK?

If we're in a 0T or 1T setup and Mafia know who the SK is they can Roleblock him every night.

Right.

64

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 19, 2018, 04:19:49 pm »

"Aren't we not really in MYLO in any circumstance" -- O
"We're in MYLO and he's lurking" -- O, literally one post later.

Meh.

65

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 19, 2018, 04:18:22 pm »

Anyways I'm going to the rash, foolhardy, insanely stupid thing and Vote: TWM

Calling it now, it's tactical lurking. TWM existed in this game day 1 and day 2. Day 3 we're in MYLO and he drops off the face of the planet?

66

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 19, 2018, 04:14:44 pm »

Not really relevant, but can't we always back into a win due to SK?

67

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 18, 2018, 08:22:10 pm »

I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.

Fair, but if you're a 1-shot bulletproofer, do you shoot N1 when we don't even know what the distribution of scum roles is and don't have a good read on everyone yet?

Can’t you Bp yourself? And dead townies don’t make the odds of you successfully blocking a shot any better, so the only reasons to wait would be dead scum and scumreads / PR reads

68

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 18, 2018, 07:46:37 pm »

I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.

69

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 18, 2018, 07:25:11 pm »

I'm personally finding it less likely that e was the SK kill than the mafia kill.

70

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 18, 2018, 07:21:18 pm »

Who do you think the SK shot, Galzria?

71

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 18, 2018, 07:11:37 pm »

said it day 1. said it day 2. saying it now.

Vote:Galz

Surprise!

(Serious note: I need to look more into this - Swan is right. He came out D1 gunning for me and for Faust, two of the stronger town players. He's made multiple verifiably false statements and cases against me, and has pushed relentlessly in a way that really, just doesn't feel natural)

You two aren't really two of the stronger town players tho.

72

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 18, 2018, 06:47:02 pm »

I intend to vote Galz. Not doing so right now because 2 votes is technically kinda sorta quickhammer range.

73

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 18, 2018, 06:15:27 pm »

From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.

I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).

Yeah this is basically my thought. Sometimes being super scummy and anti-town should get you lynched.

wait we just tried this tho

74

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion:Cities

« on: April 18, 2018, 05:40:13 pm »

Matchmaking matches you with people of roughly the same skill level, so someone playing online does not mean they will necessarily play good opponents. There are lots of people who understand nothing about Dominion strategy and if you are someone who understands even basic Eurogame strategy, you will never be close to being matched against them.

It is obvious looking at Chase's post history that when his profile says he is 13 years old that this is accurate. I fully believe Chase has games against his parents where he gets to build up to buy his ludicrously expensive custom cards and still wins.

Chase, I enjoyed reading your cards, another great set along the levels of Dominion: Gunpowder.

I don't think I was around for the (in)famous Gunpowder expansion.  Where do I find that thread? I'd very much like to read it.

It's easy enough to search within the Variants thread on "Gunpowder". Based on a discussion from a while back; it's really best to not go around linking to that thread.

I mean, the posters in gunpowder were less mocking and less toxic to a legitimate troll than the above posters (who hopefully are capable of realizing who they are) are being to a 13 year old, so I think perhaps that ship has sailed.

75

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)

« on: April 18, 2018, 05:03:18 pm »

@Gkrieg

Why did you think proposing a massclaim was remotely a reasonable option, and why do you think I should not just try to lynch you for SK + potential Dayvig hunting as scum?

How is proposing a massclaim SK or dayvig hunting? 

We are at MYLO.  The only PR that we are sure we have is a named tracker (slight chance that they are a JK instead).  It is generally within town's interest to do a massclaim at MYLO, seeing as we need to lynch correctly to win.  Unfortunately SK really makes things more difficult.  Even if we lynch scum today, we aren't assured to not lose tomorrow.  At this point we need to lynch mafia and also give the SK enough information to kill mafia as well.

It is definitely a reasonable option, you can't say stuff like "remotely a reasonable option" without saying why it is so outlandish.

Can you even explain the potential benefits of a massclaim?

The potential harms:

1) Reveal our tracker
2) Depending on claiming order, take a pretty bad 50-50 if scum get a convincing first claim of tracker.
3) Reveal any potential remaining relevant PRs
4) Narrow down who the SK potentially is, who is probably a pseudo-Vig for us right now.

The potential benefits:

1) We get one named tracker as a pseudo-IC... if scum don't counterclaim or claim first
2) Scum probably hide as VT claims for the rest of them, which might narrow the pool, except most town and SK will probably also be claiming VT