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6526
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Silver or Spoils?
« on: December 09, 2012, 06:28:00 pm »
Well, here Donald X. says that Feast was once, "+1 Action. +$3. Trash this." and that it was too powerful. That makes me think that Spoils are usually better than Silver.

6527
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise
« on: December 09, 2012, 05:43:23 pm »
Yeah, the speed of BM+X is more of a benchmark than anything. How fast can it get to 4 Provinces, 5 Provinces, 8 Provinces, etc. The worry here is that BM+Inventor is too powerful, which is concerning because it could make for really boring games where everyone just plays that strategy. However, if I determine that BM+Inventor is no more powerful than BM+Smithy or BM+Envoy, then I'm OK with it. Smithy+Inventor is starting to get into combo territory, and I don't have any issues with that.

6528
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise
« on: December 09, 2012, 05:08:10 pm »
Well, I believe that the proper way to compare it with BM/Smithy is to buy one Smithy and then Inventors after that.  I think this hybrid should beat both BM/Smithy and BM/Inventor.

Really? Why? That assumes that Smithy and Inventor are always going to be on the same board. Even if it ends up being a powerful combo, I don't think that says much about Inventor's power in a vacuum.

6529
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise
« on: December 09, 2012, 04:31:52 pm »
It's not a statistically significant sample, but preliminary tests suggest that BigMoney/Inventor is way, way weaker than BigMoney/Envoy. Part of it is that Inventor costs $5, which is significantly more expensive than $4 and also means that you can't open Inventor/Silver. Another part of it is that, while Inventors in hand don't collide, any Inventors you draw dead are still dead. I'll run some more tests, but I'm not too worried at this point. It wouldn't surprise me if it ended up being weaker than BigMoney/Smithy on average.

6530
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise
« on: December 09, 2012, 04:10:53 pm »
I just found out that maybe Exchange has a problematic wording: Trash this .... For each trashed card gain ...  Does this mean that I get $7 card?

Heh, good call. I may have to reword that.

Quote
One question: Isn't BigMoney + Inventor (where you always buy it at $5 and maybe sometimes at $6) very strong strategy?

Well, that's a good question. I'll run a test to find out. Thanks!

6531
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 09, 2012, 04:03:52 pm »
I think the versions of it I've seen allow you to spend an action to pass it left.

6532
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 09, 2012, 02:51:08 pm »
Guilds had a placeholder name I cannot reveal at this time.

Dominion: Complexity?

6533
Rules Questions / Re: Spoils and Mint
« on: December 09, 2012, 02:43:53 pm »

The rules expressly say "You may only gain spoils from marauder, pillage or Bandit camp" so I guess that overrides mint text


This rule doesn't override anything.  It's more of a rule of thumb.  You can also gain spoils from the trash.  The simplest way is via Thief, but also if someone chooses to trash their spoils for whatever reason, you could gain it using some dark ages cards.

Actually, that's not quite true. Neither Graverobber nor Rogue can gain Spoils from the trash, it being outside their cost range of $3 to $6.

6534
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise
« on: December 09, 2012, 01:40:46 pm »
I've completed my post-Dark Ages overhaul of Dominion: Enterprise. This is the third major iteration of this set and I decided to keep the same thread this time, rather than create a whole new one.

Here are the changes I've made:

Surveyor and Gambler received wording changes but are functionally the same. Gambler now has you look at the top card of your deck rather than revealing it, since the reveal wasn't necessary to keep you honest.

Boycott got bumped from +$2 to +$3 when played to give more incentive for going for it. I may also add a +1 Buy.

Mercenary got a name change to Enforcer because of the Dark Ages card with the same name.

I've replaced Aqueduct with Floodgate. They both fulfill the role of, "buy this to make your next hand better", but Floodgate is far more compelling and versatile.

Barracks lost the parentheses around "from the Conscripts pile". I jazzed up Conscripts itself to make it worth gaining when the Curses have run out. It used to just read, "+$2. Trash this card. Each other player gains a Curse." Now you get to choose two options from a list of four. Also, Barracks and Conscripts combo a bit better this way. If they collide, you can use Barracks to dig for another Attack card, then use Conscripts to give out a Curse (or whatever) and then play the other Attack card. Also, rather than Conscripts trashing itself, it now goes back to the Conscripts pile. Finally, the Conscripts pile is 16 cards, using up the remaining cards in the hypothetical 150-card box.

I'm a bit worried that Conscripts will still be too weak. It is a one-shot that you sacrifice quite a lot of time to acquire. I might try it with the '+$2' and 'gain a Silver' options replaced by '+$3' and 'gain a Gold', but that might not be necessary. Cursing is powerful as-is.

I've cut Cathedral from the set entirely. It was too similar to Courtyard and way too powerful for simple big money strategies. In its place I tried 3 different cards that I've posted to this forum, and for now I've settled on an updated version of Exchange. It still needs some more playtesting, but it's the card I like the best so far in this slot. I'd like to have a Remodel variant and it's also nice to have another pure one-shot in the set.

Fund has received another major overhaul. I pulled the cost reduction in favor of just having it produce +$4/+1 Buy once as its one-shot effect, deciding that wasn't too powerful for $5 after all. I also incorporated Cathedral's 'one-shot that doesn't leave your deck' idea into it. See, it's a Silver that you can use once for the extra cash and buy. Then it just reverts to a regular Silver. This was a way I could do this concept without using tokens, which I had to use for Cathedral. If possible, I'd like to have this set be free of extra components.

Inventor is almost functionally identical to its most recent iteration. Before you either drew 3 cards or +1 Action and set it aside on your Inventor mat, where you could pull it back to your hand at the beginning of any turn. I realized that this is pretty much the same as having it just return to your hand at the start of your next turn, since you could then just set it aside again at no penalty. That way it wouldn't need a mat, so I made the change.

Tax Collector lost its +1 Buy (which felt tacked on to me). That leaves the set with only one +Buy card (Fund), but I might be OK with that in a set with so much gaining. Also, the attack no longer hits cards costing $2. I think it needed that buff, but more playtesting could prove me wrong.

That's it! Thanks once again to everybody who has given feedback and suggestions. You've helped make this set as good as it is, and it's a set that I really enjoy playing. So, thanks again and thanks in advance for any future feedback!

6535
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 08, 2012, 08:57:55 pm »
What a terrible experiment. What about this one?: Look at these cards (rinkworks's mini-set design contest winners).
Sorry to disappoint you! My experiment had the feature of only making one guy who isn't here feel bad.

Actually, I believe he's posted in this very thread.

6536
Good question. I'm guessing that in this case, one effect precludes the other and Alex decides which effect takes place. Either Alex gains the Province or Alex makes Betty reveal the Trader and gains a Silver instead.

It's different than how other triggered effects work, but I'm guessing that'll be the ruling. I'm not 100% confident, though.

6537
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 08, 2012, 04:21:14 pm »
Overall the card I most regret printing as-is is Scrying Pool; I'd rather it didn't Spy.

I've been meaning to ask, but does this mean it wouldn't even spy your own deck, or just that it wouldn't attack other players?

6538
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 08, 2012, 01:29:09 pm »
What a terrible experiment. What about this one?: Look at these cards (rinkworks's mini-set design contest winners).

No, please don't. I agree that Buggy's cards (Books of Magic, etc.) are bad. But if I had to show Donald X. a sample of fan cards to show that they could be worth his time, I wouldn't choose the mini-set contest cards. Don't get me wrong, I participated in the contest, and it was fun and an interesting experiment. But the fact remains that the result is (currently) a big ol' hodgepodge of cards that people had to come up with under time constraints, have had little to no playtesting, and have pretty much no cohesiveness as a set of cards.

As an example, I'm not proud of my winning submission. I'm guessing that playtesting will reveal that it's not sufficiently different from Torturer and certainly not unique enough to justify the amount of text on the card. If I had put the card in a fan expansion that I had complete control over, it probably would have been severely altered or scrapped by now.

6539
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: December 07, 2012, 11:12:39 pm »
Um, is this actually being built into Goko? Please say no.

Why? This is basically what I suggested they do. Well, part of it. What I said was it would be nice to have a way to bias towards games which are more balanced, i.e. have a village, card draw, trashing, etc. But I made sure to tell them this is just an option. Keep a full random option for sure. Also I told them that this much configurability was too much for the common user and to only include these types of things in advanced settings. The main settings can just have a handful of bias checkmarks (balanced, full random, attack heavy, no attacks, etc).

As long as it's just an option, that's completely fine. I'm just worried they'll build it in as the automatic randomization algorithm for Pro-ranked games. If that's not going to happen, cool.

I agree that in general, more options are good. Personally, I'd like an option to limit the total number of sets included in a board of 10 cards. I enjoy playing games with 5 cards each from 2 sets or ≈3 cards from 3 sets. A lot of marginal cards like Scout and Contraband are much more useful when matched with more cards from their set.

6540
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: December 07, 2012, 08:41:18 pm »
I strongly disagree with the implication that a board needs an engine to be interesting. Most of my favorite cards thrive in the absence of a viable engine.

you are just nitpicking here mate. obviously there will still be some boards without engines that are still going to be interesting. and if you prefer boards without engines well hey that's your opinion. but if other people were of that same mentality then would just play full random and take what they got. if they are going out of their way to use this sort of tool, they are most likely looking for some sort of board with interesting engine options.

i'm not sitting here trying to make any bold statement on which board is best. i'm just explaining the rationale for why people using this tool might prefer to see these types of cards.

That's all well and good, unless they build this into Goko as the only randomization option.

6541
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: December 07, 2012, 08:35:05 pm »
Um, is this actually being built into Goko? Please say no.

6542
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: December 07, 2012, 08:00:25 pm »
By default it seems to have 1 or 2 villages per set, which I'm not sure I like.

as someone who prefers full random i agree. but if a person is using a tool like this they are likely trying to create an 'interesting' board, typically one with some sort of viable engine. and in that case, a village is usually going to be a helpful card.

I strongly disagree with the implication that a board needs an engine to be interesting. Most of my favorite cards thrive in the absence of a viable engine.

6543
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: December 07, 2012, 06:35:14 pm »
By default it seems to have 1 or 2 villages per set, which I'm not sure I like.

6544
Dominion: Guilds Previews / First small Guilds Spoiler
« on: December 07, 2012, 04:48:58 pm »
I mined these placeholder card names from onigame's new Dominion Set Generator.

BEguild ($4)
CBguild ($5)
CVguild ($5)
DNguild ($2)
EPguild ($3)
GPguild ($3)
HVguild ($5)
IFguild ($4)
NHguild ($5)
NJguild ($2)
TPguild ($5)
UWguild ($4)
UYguild ($4)

Looks like Guilds will have 13 cards, as expected. Anybody want to waste some time guessing what these names could be abbreviations for?

6545
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: December 07, 2012, 04:01:59 pm »
BEguild ($4)
CBguild ($5)
CVguild ($5)
DNguild ($2)
EPguild ($3)
GPguild ($3)
HVguild ($5)
IFguild ($4)
NHguild ($5)
NJguild ($2)
TPguild ($5)
UWguild ($4)
UYguild ($4)

Sorry, couldn't resist.  ;D

EDIT: Added costs.

6546
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Town Commons (another shared resource card)
« on: December 07, 2012, 12:07:19 pm »
Cluckyb, That would make it swingy where you get more money having all your estates together.

I don't think that's any more swingy than a lot of stuff already in the game, like opening with Remake or Trading Post and drawing it with 2 Estates on turn 3.

6547
No opinions about Rebuild, brokoli?

6548
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Town Commons (another shared resource card)
« on: December 06, 2012, 08:03:28 pm »
You could have a clause like: At the end of each turn, if the player bought a Province, put a Silver from the Supply on the Commons mat.

6549
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Tactics
« on: December 06, 2012, 03:34:34 pm »
Wishing Well is actually one of my favorite cards, and has a lot of subtle plays hidden in there.
I can't think of any advice that holds in every situation; some general ideas nevertheless:

  • I almost always wish for the most frequent card in my deck, which is very often a copper.
  • Given several cantrips, I almost always play the wishing well next-to-last. That way I can still get the non-copper to use this turn.
  • Suppose I play a strong combo deck with lots of conspirators, and halfway my turn my hand is 3 coppers, and a wishing well. I play the well and it gives me a village. I usually now wish for a card that would break the turn, probably still copper. More in general: in strong decks I often wish for the card I don't want to have.
  • Clearly, if I have a guaranteed draw either now or later, that breaks all other rules. I could be two cards away from a reshuffle now, or maybe I will be a bit later this turn, or maybe there's an apothecary or cartographer in my deck coming soon.

And just to point out all these rules can be broken:

I remember playing a game IRL where my opponent opened swindler-silver and I opened wishing well-rebuild. No desirable $5 cards in the set. On his turn 3 he bought something for $4, and on my turn 3 I had CCCEW. Playing the wishing well got me another copper. I now wished for the rebuild in stead of the usual copper or estate. It wasn't actually on top, but I wanted this wishing well to fizzle, because I didn't want my rebuild to miss the reshuffle caused by his swindler on turn 4. At first I wanted to wish for province, but rebuild was ok too.

How did you open Wishing Well/Rebuild?

I'm guessing Stef actually meant Wishing Well/Remake or Wishing Well/Remodel, but I could be wrong.

6550
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Card-specific beginner traps
« on: December 06, 2012, 02:31:03 pm »
In my RL experience, Throne Room is often a beginner trap.  "Cool, with a $4 card I can get double-worth out of that awesome $5 card on the table!  WHAT VALUE!"  Then at the end of the game:  "Man, I can't believe how many times I drew that Throne Room dead!"

Sounds like you're thinking of less "noob" beginners than I do when I think of Throne Room... the fact that they are thinking of it as a copy of a $5 card that only costs $4 is thinking that I see as beyond the beginner phase... I know that when I first thought Throne Room was so great, I would be using it on Spy and Village and such... never thinking about the fact that a second copy of the card I played with Throne Room could have been there instead of Throne Room.

To be fair, I'm more likely to buy Spy in a game with Throne Room. You end up with an extra Action, which you wouldn't if you just played two Spies. It's not as good as Throne Room/Laboratory, but it's still a decent enough faux Village when you need one.

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