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76

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 27, 2020, 05:11:37 pm »

Final Version!

77

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 27, 2020, 05:08:23 pm »

24 hours left!!!!

Also, I have a couple of questions:

Update to Bale - removed the +buy from the discard clause since it doesn't really need it
/Harvest           - was worth way too much VP. Now has a cap of 4 and lightly punishes big money, and also decks which use 1 card like lab, governor, etc.

Edit - Should I raise the VP to discourage trashing the heriloom?

Do you lose 1 VP per differently named card you have at least 4 copies of? Or is each individual copy going to bite when the 4-mark it hit? (also make sure the final version is mentioned in the original post)

The heirloom itself is worth 1 VP less, not the cards. What do you mean final version in the original post?
Also, that is not the final version. The final version says 4 or more, instead of at least 4.

I think they're asking, if I had a deck of 4 Scouts and one Bale, would the Bale be worth 3 VP or 0 VP?

Yes. Thank you.

The bale would be worth 3 VP

78

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 27, 2020, 03:49:46 pm »

24 hours left!!!!

Also, I have a couple of questions:

Update to Bale - removed the +buy from the discard clause since it doesn't really need it
/Harvest           - was worth way too much VP. Now has a cap of 4 and lightly punishes big money, and also decks which use 1 card like lab, governor, etc.

Edit - Should I raise the VP to discourage trashing the heriloom?

Do you lose 1 VP per differently named card you have at least 4 copies of? Or is each individual copy going to bite when the 4-mark it hit? (also make sure the final version is mentioned in the original post)

The heirloom itself is worth 1 VP less, not the cards. What do you mean final version in the original post?
Also, that is not the final version. The final version says 4 or more, instead of at least 4.

79

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 26, 2020, 10:25:18 am »

That updated version of Canary doesn't seem to fix the infinite loop. The Treasurer gets set aside and then returned to play when you play it again.

I don't see a lot of issue with the infinite loop. Al stars have to align from 3 different sets, and the combo does not have infinite buys. To be really overpowered you also need an engine with a lot of extra buys. If that would happen, and you manage to pull it of... YOU HAVE EARNED IT!

This is not even that hard to pull off. Just play treasurer to trash it. On a later turn, you only need those 3 specific cards in your hand to pull it off. Also, if tomb is in the kingdom that's infinite VP

With small I mean that if you randomize the chance that this kingdom hits is very small.

Still, it is possible and I don't think any way to get infinite VP should exist in this game

It already does (Goons/Forum/Highway/Trader).

Ism't that combo limited by the amount of silvers?

80

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest

« on: August 25, 2020, 03:29:06 pm »

Updating Sea Hag via a sort of merge with Spy.

If you play this multiple times, you can ruin someones turn with curses

No you can't, it has to discard the curse to give them another.

Sorry, didn't read that well

81

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest

« on: August 25, 2020, 02:56:09 pm »

Updating Sea Hag via a sort of merge with Spy.

If you play this multiple times, you can ruin someones turn with curses

82

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest

« on: August 25, 2020, 12:17:49 pm »

I happen to agree that sea hag is a fine design, but I think talking about power level is looking at the wrong spectrum. Cards generally aren't fun or unfun base solely on power level. If you doubt this, just look at donate.

Well, sure, but how fun a card is lies in the eyes of the beholder.
It is much easier to get consensus on more objective criteria, like the swinginess of Tournament or the massive underpowerdness of Spy.

I don't think this is a case where you want to give up on optimizing the thing you care about directly because it's harder to measure

It's not like powerlevel is almost the same as fun-level. It's a totally different thing. Ditto with swinginess. Very low powerlevel is the best proxy because everyone agrees that a card that never gets bought isn't fun, but high powerlevel really doesn't tell you much.

I'd make a poll -- come up with 10 plausible candidates, vote for the least fun one, then resdesign that one.

I could make a poll to replace sea hag, if that would be better

83

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 25, 2020, 12:15:55 pm »

It loses less VP each time, but the threshold is one lower. Costs two so it can't be trashed with most attacks.

84

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 25, 2020, 11:13:35 am »

That updated version of Canary doesn't seem to fix the infinite loop. The Treasurer gets set aside and then returned to play when you play it again.

I don't see a lot of issue with the infinite loop. Al stars have to align from 3 different sets, and the combo does not have infinite buys. To be really overpowered you also need an engine with a lot of extra buys. If that would happen, and you manage to pull it of... YOU HAVE EARNED IT!

This is not even that hard to pull off. Just play treasurer to trash it. On a later turn, you only need those 3 specific cards in your hand to pull it off. Also, if tomb is in the kingdom that's infinite VP

With small I mean that if you randomize the chance that this kingdom hits is very small.

Still, it is possible and I don't think any way to get infinite VP should exist in this game

85

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest

« on: August 25, 2020, 09:48:31 am »

1) It produces no resources
2) It is really, really, good. You need to buy it in the opening or else you will drown in curses.
3) There is already a cheap junker in seaside, ambassador, which is much more interesting

86

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 25, 2020, 09:08:52 am »

That updated version of Canary doesn't seem to fix the infinite loop. The Treasurer gets set aside and then returned to play when you play it again.

I don't see a lot of issue with the infinite loop. Al stars have to align from 3 different sets, and the combo does not have infinite buys. To be really overpowered you also need an engine with a lot of extra buys. If that would happen, and you manage to pull it of... YOU HAVE EARNED IT!

This is not even that hard to pull off. Just play treasurer to trash it. On a later turn, you only need those 3 specific cards in your hand to pull it off. Also, if tomb is in the kingdom that's infinite VP

87

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest

« on: August 25, 2020, 09:05:43 am »

So here's one for Spy:

Enforcer - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+ $1
Each other player discards a card costing at least $2 per other Enforcer you have in play (or reveals they can't), then draws until they have 4 cards in hand.

The resemblance with spy is rather weak. It should be some sort of deck attack like rabble, oracle, scrying pool, etc. Maybe it can reveal from deck per played, then discard or put back, your choice? I do like the per played idea, makes it not too slow.

Ok sure, I focused on just the cantrip Attack aspect. I think your idea would be much slower than Spy though? You'd have several cards at once to consider.
But I'll submit another idea going down the Sea Hag route:

Scallywag - Action Attack, $4 cost.
+ $2
Each other player reveals the top card of their deck. If it's an Action or Treasure, they discard it and gain a Curse onto their deck.

It's hitting somebody just once between turns. Maybe still nasty enough an Attack to cost it $5?

I think it should cost five since it makes 2$ and also discards good cards but always leaves useless ones.

88

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 24, 2020, 07:04:16 pm »

Bale (for Harvest):

Utterly lunatic with Copper trashing in multiplayer games (where you don’t get that many Actions anyway).

Is it worth too many VPs? Should I bring it back to 4/-1 instead of 5/-2?

89

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest

« on: August 24, 2020, 03:39:48 pm »

So here's one for Spy:

Enforcer - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+ $1
Each other player discards a card costing at least $2 per other Enforcer you have in play (or reveals they can't), then draws until they have 4 cards in hand.

The resemblance with spy is rather weak. It should be some sort of deck attack like rabble, oracle, scrying pool, etc. Maybe it can reveal from deck per played, then discard or put back, your choice? I do like the per played idea, makes it not too slow.

90

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 24, 2020, 02:05:22 pm »

Bale (for Harvest):

91

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: August 24, 2020, 12:53:44 pm »

Scout(-1) - Action -  Victory - $3
+1 Action
Look at the top four cards of your deck. Put the rest back in any order.
----------------------------------
0 VP

Scout(-1) - Action -  Victory - Shelter - $3
+1 Action
Look at the top four cards of your deck. Put the rest back in any order.
----------------------------------
0 VP
------------------------------
Setup: replace your three starting estates with Scout(-1)s

92

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: August 24, 2020, 12:43:39 pm »

Scout(n) - Action - $(4+n)
+1 Action
Look at the top four cards of your deck. Put the Scout(n-1)s into your hand and the rest back in any order. (A Scout(-1) is a Victory Card.)
------------------------------
When you gain this, if n is not zero, gain a Scout(n-1)

Infiniscout - Project - 20$
When you gain a Scout(n), gain a Scout(n+1)

MegaScout - Action - $Infinity
Look at the top four cards of your deck. Put all scouts(-1 to infinity) in your hand and the rest back in any order.
------------------------------
When you gain this, gain all Scout(n)s, where n>-1

93

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: August 24, 2020, 12:18:58 pm »

Scout Scout - 5$
+1 Action
Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Put the Scouts in your hand and put the rest back in any order.
---------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain a scout.

94

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 23, 2020, 05:27:40 pm »

I have a similar contest about updating past cards in the "Card Updating Contest" thread, if any of you are interested. Sorry if this is off-topic.

95

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest

« on: August 23, 2020, 05:22:48 pm »

Card Updating Contest 1

Make a new version of one of the following cards:
Sea Hag (curser using duration, top-of deck/bottom-of-deck, or using mats)
Spy (non-terminal deck attack. Try not to make it too slow)
Tournament (somehow gains from fixed deck of prizes. You can make your own prizes or use the same ones. Make sure it's not as rich-get-richer)

Judging will be in about two weeks

96

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.

« on: August 22, 2020, 07:36:36 pm »

Was Groom intentionally made as a "gainer" ironworks? Or was it a concept of its own that ended up similarly?

97

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 22, 2020, 08:24:55 am »

Isn’t it obvious? You always do as much as you can. If there is 1 VP on a Landmark, you just take 1 instead of 2.
And if you put a VP on a Landmark that does not interact with VPs on it, well, then it does not interact with it.

I just think that adding to landmarks is weird and outside of the rules and shouldn't be touched. It should stick to just adding to gathering piles. You'd also need lots of explanation in the rulebook...

98

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 22, 2020, 07:52:57 am »

What does adding to a landmark mean? The "six per player" ones deal them in twos, so what happens if there is an odd amount of tokens on them. What does it mean to put tokens on a landmark that doesn't give them out like Palace or Keep.

99

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 21, 2020, 02:54:36 pm »

Update to Bale - removed the +buy from the discard clause since it doesn't really need it
/Harvest           - was worth way too much VP. Now has a cap of 4 and lightly punishes big money, and also decks which use 1 card like lab, governor, etc.

Edit - Should I raise the VP to discourage trashing the heriloom?

100

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 21, 2020, 02:42:05 pm »

The problem with copperfield is it is concentrated in one card, stealable by thief. This is a ~14-point swing, which can easily decide games.

The VPs are not tagged to Copperfield, but to the Coppers. Without Coppers, Copperfield is worth nothing. Due to that, the VPs are attached to a lot of junk cards. You can have such a huge swing only when you keep all the Coppers in your deck; so the penalty is huge. And I am not talking about the boards, where a lot of Coppers (or even the Copperfields) are trashed or Exiled, or whatever.

Thief sucks because:1) It doesn't produce resources. Attacks should also produce resources (+2$ for militia, +2 Cards for witch, etc).

Thief produces Money by stealing it from others; Thief+ potentially produces VPs. If a given board doesn’t support Thief+, then it should not be bought.
 

2) It trashes other's copper's, which helps them

Whether stealing Coppers with Thief+ is good for the opponents or not is not trivial.

3) It has been successfully re-implemented by noble brigand and by bandit (which replaced theif in the base second edition), so there is zero reason to play with theif when other cards do the same thing but better.

Thief+ clearly does different things.
The whole point of Thief + Copperfield was to address all those problems. I wanted to design a Thief that can be useful and interesting on certain boards.
Maybe I miss something fundamentally, but so far none of the criticisms could convince me.

Listen, almost the entire community agrees thief is a bad card, and other then that there's nothing I can say to convince you (and yes, outside of cases like counting house or gardens you do always want to get rid of coppers and theif helps opponents do that).

You are talking about the official Thief here. I never did that.

As for my first point, let me run a scenario for you. Assume we both have 7 coppers. You play thief and reveal my copperfield and steal it. You now have an extra 7 points (new copperfield) and I lost seven points (my copperfeild is gone), so that's a 14-point swing in your favor which can easily decide games. All because you got lucky with thief.

This scenario is the extreme case (6 Coppers by the way, one is replaced by Copperfield). It can happen of course, but often enough it will not. I don’t want to repeat all those other possibilities again; please have a look at my previous posts. Anyway, back to your scenario (the extreme case). I now have 2 Copperfields and a bunch of Coppers. If I want to score with those, I have to keep them for the rest of the game. You, who have lost your Copperfield, have the option to steal it back, or more interesting, ignore all that junk, get rid of your Coppers (my Thief+ may even help), buy nice Engine pieces and beat me, because you have a thin deck and I have all the ballast.

I have the feeling that you don’t understand Thief + Copperfield. On one hand you say it is too weak, on the other hand you say it is too strong. In the extreme case it could be swingy, but the VP swing is connected to a massive amount of junk. The real question is rather, how often it would happen that the Copperfield Thief with all the junk makes the better deal.

It would be nice if someone else could give their opinion about this.

I amnot contradicting myself. Thief is really weak. Copperfield is way too strong. It turns the game into a hot potato match of who can steal everyones copperfeilds.