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Messages - LordBaphomet

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76
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: August 22, 2020, 07:36:36 pm »
Was Groom intentionally made as a "gainer" ironworks? Or was it a concept of its own that ended up similarly?

77
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 22, 2020, 08:24:55 am »
Isn’t it obvious? You always do as much as you can. If there is 1 VP on a Landmark, you just take 1 instead of 2.
And if you put a VP on a Landmark that does not interact with VPs on it, well, then it does not interact with it.
I just think that adding to landmarks is weird and outside of the rules and shouldn't be touched. It should stick to just adding to gathering piles. You'd also need lots of explanation in the rulebook...

78
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 22, 2020, 07:52:57 am »
What does adding to a landmark mean? The "six per player" ones deal them in twos, so what happens if there is an odd amount of tokens on them. What does it mean to put tokens on a landmark that doesn't give them out like Palace or Keep.

79
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 21, 2020, 02:54:36 pm »
Update to Bale - removed the +buy from the discard clause since it doesn't really need it
/Harvest           - was worth way too much VP. Now has a cap of 4 and lightly punishes big money, and also decks which use 1 card like lab, governor, etc.

Edit - Should I raise the VP to discourage trashing the heriloom?

80
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 21, 2020, 02:42:05 pm »
Quote
The problem with copperfield is it is concentrated in one card, stealable by thief. This is a ~14-point swing, which can easily decide games.
The VPs are not tagged to Copperfield, but to the Coppers. Without Coppers, Copperfield is worth nothing. Due to that, the VPs are attached to a lot of junk cards. You can have such a huge swing only when you keep all the Coppers in your deck; so the penalty is huge. And I am not talking about the boards, where a lot of Coppers (or even the Copperfields) are trashed or Exiled, or whatever.

Quote
Thief sucks because:1) It doesn't produce resources. Attacks should also produce resources (+2$ for militia, +2 Cards for witch, etc).
Thief produces Money by stealing it from others; Thief+ potentially produces VPs. If a given board doesn’t support Thief+, then it should not be bought.
 
Quote
2) It trashes other's copper's, which helps them
Whether stealing Coppers with Thief+ is good for the opponents or not is not trivial.

Quote
3) It has been successfully re-implemented by noble brigand and by bandit (which replaced theif in the base second edition), so there is zero reason to play with theif when other cards do the same thing but better.
Thief+ clearly does different things.
The whole point of Thief + Copperfield was to address all those problems. I wanted to design a Thief that can be useful and interesting on certain boards.
Maybe I miss something fundamentally, but so far none of the criticisms could convince me.


Quote
Listen, almost the entire community agrees thief is a bad card, and other then that there's nothing I can say to convince you (and yes, outside of cases like counting house or gardens you do always want to get rid of coppers and theif helps opponents do that).

You are talking about the official Thief here. I never did that.

Quote
As for my first point, let me run a scenario for you. Assume we both have 7 coppers. You play thief and reveal my copperfield and steal it. You now have an extra 7 points (new copperfield) and I lost seven points (my copperfeild is gone), so that's a 14-point swing in your favor which can easily decide games. All because you got lucky with thief.

This scenario is the extreme case (6 Coppers by the way, one is replaced by Copperfield). It can happen of course, but often enough it will not. I don’t want to repeat all those other possibilities again; please have a look at my previous posts. Anyway, back to your scenario (the extreme case). I now have 2 Copperfields and a bunch of Coppers. If I want to score with those, I have to keep them for the rest of the game. You, who have lost your Copperfield, have the option to steal it back, or more interesting, ignore all that junk, get rid of your Coppers (my Thief+ may even help), buy nice Engine pieces and beat me, because you have a thin deck and I have all the ballast.

I have the feeling that you don’t understand Thief + Copperfield. On one hand you say it is too weak, on the other hand you say it is too strong. In the extreme case it could be swingy, but the VP swing is connected to a massive amount of junk. The real question is rather, how often it would happen that the Copperfield Thief with all the junk makes the better deal.

It would be nice if someone else could give their opinion about this.

I amnot contradicting myself. Thief is really weak. Copperfield is way too strong. It turns the game into a hot potato match of who can steal everyones copperfeilds.

81
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 21, 2020, 01:28:40 pm »
Quote
The problem with copperfield is it is concentrated in one card, stealable by thief. This is a ~14-point swing, which can easily decide games.
The VPs are not tagged to Copperfield, but to the Coppers. Without Coppers, Copperfield is worth nothing. Due to that, the VPs are attached to a lot of junk cards. You can have such a huge swing only when you keep all the Coppers in your deck; so the penalty is huge. And I am not talking about the boards, where a lot of Coppers (or even the Copperfields) are trashed or Exiled, or whatever.

Quote
Thief sucks because:1) It doesn't produce resources. Attacks should also produce resources (+2$ for militia, +2 Cards for witch, etc).
Thief produces Money by stealing it from others; Thief+ potentially produces VPs. If a given board doesnít support Thief+, then it should not be bought.
 
Quote
2) It trashes other's copper's, which helps them
Whether stealing Coppers with Thief+ is good for the opponents or not is not trivial.

Quote
3) It has been successfully re-implemented by noble brigand and by bandit (which replaced theif in the base second edition), so there is zero reason to play with theif when other cards do the same thing but better.
Thief+ clearly does different things.
The whole point of Thief + Copperfield was to address all those problems. I wanted to design a Thief that can be useful and interesting on certain boards.
Maybe I miss something fundamentally, but so far none of the criticisms could convince me.
Listen, almost the entire community agrees thief is a bad card, and other then that there's nothing I can say to convince you (and yes, outside of cases like counting house or gardens you do always want to get rid of coppers and theif helps opponents do that).
As for my first point, let me run a scenario for you. Assume we both have 7 coppers. You play thief and reveal my copperfield and steal it. You now have an extra 7 points (new copperfield) and I lost seven points (my copperfeild is gone), so that's a 14-point swing in your favor which can easily decide games. All because you got lucky with thief. If you really want to make an heirloom for thief, I suggest instead making one for noble brigand or bandit.

82
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 21, 2020, 10:39:38 am »
Sorry if it seems like I was laughing at your card, I was just making a joke to describe what I think it's problem is. I think it's a great idea, however should be worth less VP. This is worth more then a province, and it can be stolen by thief. This means that if someone buys theif, everyone else does; like a knights scramble but worse. However, you are right in the way that the power level of copperfield is different every game.
Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate any feedback.
Please keep in mind that the VP worth a Province or more are spread over a lot of cards that are otherwise better junk. Just think about having a starting deck, where each Copper is a Mini-Harem ($1 / 1VP). Would you always keep them in your deck?

Boards that allow rapid trashing of the Coppers will largely ignore Thief+. If a player decides to go for Thief+ and the VP-Coppers, they do it at the cost of having a junk deck. This will be sometimes a valuable option, but other times not. I am confident that on many boards, if someone buys a Thief+, the opponents can still ignore it, even when the Thief+ player is able to steal all the Copperfields.


I think its problem is that it puts Thief on the board.
Could you please tell me what the problem with Thief is?
The problem with copperfield is it is concentrated in one card, stealable by thief. This is a ~14-point swing, which can easily decide games. Thief sucks because:
1) It doesn't produce resources. Attacks should also produce resources (+2$ for militia, +2 Cards for witch, etc)
2) It trashes other's copper's, which helps them
3) It has been successfully re-implemented by noble brigand and by bandit (which replaced theif in the base second edition), so there is zero reason to play with theif when other cards do the same thing but better

83
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 21, 2020, 09:14:15 am »
My submission:


>Get my Copperfield trashed with thief
>Lose ~7 VP and quietly weep

Also btw 1VP per copper is i think way too much. Comparing to shepherd's pasture - Estates cost more, there are less of them, and they are a dead card in your deck.

I am sorry to see you laughing at my cards. Let me tell you what I think about it:

You say Estates are dead. I say they are less dead in combination with Shepherd than Coppers with Thief; I wouldnít exactly call the Coppers lively. Letís say, Thief steals Copperfield, so what? The Thief player has gained ~6VP at that very moment, but for what prize? To get the VP through the finish line, the Thief player has a lot of ballast to carry around. For each single VP they want to score via Copperfield (2 VP if they stole a Copperfield and can keep them), they have to keep a Copper in their deck.

You mentioned in your post #6771 that the Heirloom-extended cards presented so far would dominate the game. I havenít looked at all entries, but I would say that Thief +Copperfield would still not dominate a lot of games. If there is good trashing, or nowadays even Exiling, and all Engine components are around, a player not going for Thief (or doing so late in the game to upset their Thief opponents), would weep if their opponent steals their Copperfield and Coppers along the way Ėfor joy.

However, if things are a bit different, e.g. no good trashing, the presence of some Engine components under par, maybe a strong Gold gainer, or some powerful Treasures (including other Heirlooms) around, Thief+ actually can be considered to be gained and is probably in some games a must-buy. That is how I view the power of Thief +Copperfield: Excellent in some games, ok-ish in some others, weak in still others.

Either way, the presence of Thief+ plus in a Kingdom and of Copperfield in the playerís decks, forces the players to think about the strength of Thief +Copperfield. I thought thatís a good criterion to make a card interesting.
Sorry if it seems like I was laughing at your card, I was just making a joke to describe what I think it's problem is. I think it's a great idea, however should be worth less VP. This is worth more then a province, and it can be stolen by thief. This means that if someone buys theif, everyone else does; like a knights scramble but worse. However, you are right in the way that the power level of copperfield is different every game.

84
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: August 20, 2020, 11:06:59 pm »
Scrap market - 6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+1 Coin
Gain a silver
Gain a horse
Scrapped Market -
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+
Gain a Silver
Gain a Horse
You may trash this card, if you did: Discard a card. If you have any + actions remaining, you now have 1 less. This turn, buying a card requires 2 buys. Take the - token. Trash a silver from your discard pile. Return a horse from your discard pile to the horse pile.

Marketed Scrap
+1 Card. For each +1 Action is Horses, choose a Buy: +1 Silver, $$$

85
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 20, 2020, 10:41:42 pm »
My thoughts about this contest:
First of all, this is a really great concept and there are lots of good ideas being posted. However some heirlooms seems to be elevating their heirloomees to a must-buy status, turning the game into something with only one strategy. I think even mine is guilty of this. If we look at the heirlooms:
Shepherd/Pasture: Firstly, pasture helps shepherd draw. That much is obvious. However, going for the estates is only feasible with buy and/or gainers. Even then, it's not like you get that many points out of it and it will need to be complemented by something else. Finally, shepherd doesn't work well with thin trashing decks or decks that like to hide away VPs (Island, exile, native village, etc.), and also with shelters
Haunted Mirror/Cemetary: Cemetary is only useful to get rid of curses and starting estates, maybe copper. You probably won't have more than two in your deck. Also, cemetary is a trasher just in case there isn't another one. Haunted mirror I think can be compared to arena, only you lose 1$ for that turn and get a ghost instead of 2VP. Early game that's good, but I don't think I'd take that deal with only a few turns left in the game. Plus, you can only use it once (barring Treasurer  I guess)
Magic Lamp/Secret Cave: tbh haven't played enough with this to know the strategy or how game-warping wishes are. Sorry.
Goat/Pixie: The only reason pixie has goat is so double flames gift isn't broken on a board with no trashing. Yeah goat is a good card, but doesn't really dominate strategies in any way other than some bonus trashing.
Tracker/Pouch: Again not much intersection, other than pouch's buy taking advantage of tracker's top decking effect. Easily one of the weaker heirlooms. Not much effect on boards, unless there is no other buy.
Cursed Gold/Pooka: Here's an heirloom that actually makes it's card weaker, by being explicitly referenced, but I guess we can't do that in the contest... Cursed gold really shakes up the openings and makes for interesting choices but again, not really a deciding factor on what strategy to play. Pooka's alright, I guess.
Fool/Lucky coin: Lucky coin was only put in to stop the boonage of fool, then Donald X. never took it out. No intersection here. I think Lucy Coin is best compared to Cursed Gold, as they can both be hard choices on whether to play. Again the silvers are rarely game-breaking, other than foedum I guess?

Point is, the heirlooms are all there either as little boosts to underpowered cards (tracker, shepherd), something to rein in a card's effect (Pooka, Pixie), or, y'know, just cuz its cool (fool, cemetary). Let's look at my entry: the whole being a unique card adds to harvest (also tying in the discard effect), and the discard for coffers is there so that it won't screw up openings. I'm worried the VP might be pushing it, though. Comparing to pasture/shepherd:
Unique name = Being VP for shepherd
Discard for coffers = 1$ treasure
Mini-museum for actions = VP for estates? Actions are something you'd want in your deck anyways, while the estate bonus plays more like a traditional alt-VP (i.e. you need enablers like gainers, buy, etc)

Thanks for staying with me for this wall of text...

86
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« on: August 20, 2020, 05:21:39 pm »
My friend wanted a card to kill engines ???. I think this should do the job. 20 in the supply. Could maybe add +1 action


Even if you win this is worse then duchies

87
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 20, 2020, 04:57:57 pm »
My submission:


>Get my Copperfield trashed with thief
>Lose ~7 VP and quietly weep

Also btw 1VP per copper is i think way too much. Comparing to shepherd's pasture - Estates cost more, there are less of them, and they are a dead card in your deck.

88
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 20, 2020, 03:57:33 pm »

With this, the opening splits would be: 3/3, 5/1 and 4/2. That's kinda cool in a way. I like the card too. :)

Edit: Oh but wait. The discarding clause, it happens even during Cleanup, correct? If so, then the Coffers makes the opening split even weirder.
Some openings are strictly better then others though. Split the six coppers into two hands. Then if you put the bale in the first hand, that's better then putting it in the second hand, since you can use the coffer earlier. Is this a problem, or simply harmless luck that barely will affect the game?

For example 111BE/EE111 is better then 111EE/111EB since now the first player can open 3/4 if they want, or 3/3 while the second player doesn't have such a choice

89
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: August 20, 2020, 03:48:51 pm »
Scrap market - 6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+1 Coin
Gain a silver
Gain a horse

90
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 20, 2020, 03:42:19 pm »
Bale for Harvest:
1. Harvest could use the extra naming power
2. Likes variety too, it's a mini-fairgrounds
3. Gets a bonus when discarded, and if harvest or other actions do it you can use it this turn

91
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest
« on: August 20, 2020, 03:23:41 pm »
Would be a good idea for a week of the weekly design contest.
We did have it once, right back at contest #18.

Variants on official cards might be a big enough field to explore with contests, or maybe not. Depends on how flexible you'd allow things to be, like would borrowing mechanics from other expansions be allowed? If not, I doubt there would be much room. Unless you do like Empires did to Prosperity, a new expansion extending a current expansion theme.
Another fun contest would be for a "sequel" expansion, like how adventures is the seaside sequel, and empires is the prosperity sequel. I guess renaissance is a bit of guilds and dark ages. However, it would be fun to do new mechanics to complement Intrigue, or Nocturne maybe? Corncucopia would be interesting too.

92
Variants and Fan Cards / Card updating contest
« on: August 19, 2020, 02:50:35 pm »
How would you guys feel about a new design contest, similar to the weekly design contest, about updating bad cards from older expansions, much like was done in the Base and Intrigue with the replaced cards? The cards could be tweaked, or could be a whole new card with the same concept or mechanic (like scout and patrol). Each week would have three or so cards from older expansions to improve.

93
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 18, 2020, 07:14:30 pm »
I realised my old submission didn't need to say any number, so here's a new one: (sorry pubby)


A scullion was the guy who swept and cleaned the kitchen.
Edit: whoops scullian should be duration. Sorry

94
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 15, 2020, 11:59:25 am »
Update to Gild - now a project, golds are only revealed so it encourages buying multiple cheap VPs.

95
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 14, 2020, 11:07:31 am »
Here's my entry: Gild
Apply Gold to your VPs to make them extra fancy. Likes gold gainers, but also has a mine capability built-in. An alt-VP strat that was inspired by Groundskeeper.

96
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: August 13, 2020, 09:52:50 pm »
How do you make the final version of cards? Do you use Photoshop or something similar or do you have the publisher or artist do it? Also, do you write to artists after you are done the final version of an expansion? Sorry for all of the questions!

97
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 13, 2020, 09:52:02 am »
Official any number Dominion cards:
Cellar (discard, to draw)
Vault (discard, for coin)
Inn (reveal actions, to shuffle into deck)
Storeroom (discard, to draw), (discard, for coin)
Artificer (discard, to gain onto deck equal in cost to amount discarded)
Night Watchman (discard, from five cards revealed from deck)
Crypt (treasures, to put into hand on later turns)
Silos (discard coppers, to draw)
Hostelry (discard treasures, to gain horses)
Black Market (play treasures, for coin to buy from black market)

98
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: August 12, 2020, 03:46:23 pm »
Are there any mechanics/effects/themes you regret using on a card that could have been better elsewhere? (ex. reactions, attacks, an interesting top/bottom on an otherwise bland card, etc.)

99
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 12, 2020, 12:06:04 pm »


This is a Butcher variant using a new mechanic I've been thinking about: Apprentices. Apprentices are cards that get better over the course of the game by fulfilling certain actions. They do this via Experience tokens, represented by the purple gem. Experience tokens are limited, similarly to the wood cubes for projects. Each player can only have three.
I'm afraid that you will max out the apprentice tokens very fast, and then this becomes an inexpensive expand variant. In most cases you can have the full effect on your second buy of it.

Yeah that's probably the case too often. I'll change it to an earlier version where the way to get tokens was on-play.


This is busted. The correct play here is to discard three cards on the first play to turn this into an expand for 4$ with +1 card (btw +1 Card is imo an extremely awkward bonus and I think no terminal card in the game has it. If you need a small bonus to buff a card, use buy or money.)

100
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: August 08, 2020, 08:02:49 pm »
Would you have made Holstery an overpay card if you could have?

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