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101

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 21, 2020, 01:28:40 pm »

The problem with copperfield is it is concentrated in one card, stealable by thief. This is a ~14-point swing, which can easily decide games.

The VPs are not tagged to Copperfield, but to the Coppers. Without Coppers, Copperfield is worth nothing. Due to that, the VPs are attached to a lot of junk cards. You can have such a huge swing only when you keep all the Coppers in your deck; so the penalty is huge. And I am not talking about the boards, where a lot of Coppers (or even the Copperfields) are trashed or Exiled, or whatever.

Thief sucks because:1) It doesn't produce resources. Attacks should also produce resources (+2$ for militia, +2 Cards for witch, etc).

Thief produces Money by stealing it from others; Thief+ potentially produces VPs. If a given board doesn’t support Thief+, then it should not be bought.
 

2) It trashes other's copper's, which helps them

Whether stealing Coppers with Thief+ is good for the opponents or not is not trivial.

3) It has been successfully re-implemented by noble brigand and by bandit (which replaced theif in the base second edition), so there is zero reason to play with theif when other cards do the same thing but better.

Thief+ clearly does different things.
The whole point of Thief + Copperfield was to address all those problems. I wanted to design a Thief that can be useful and interesting on certain boards.
Maybe I miss something fundamentally, but so far none of the criticisms could convince me.

Listen, almost the entire community agrees thief is a bad card, and other then that there's nothing I can say to convince you (and yes, outside of cases like counting house or gardens you do always want to get rid of coppers and theif helps opponents do that).
As for my first point, let me run a scenario for you. Assume we both have 7 coppers. You play thief and reveal my copperfield and steal it. You now have an extra 7 points (new copperfield) and I lost seven points (my copperfeild is gone), so that's a 14-point swing in your favor which can easily decide games. All because you got lucky with thief. If you really want to make an heirloom for thief, I suggest instead making one for noble brigand or bandit.

102

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 21, 2020, 10:39:38 am »

Sorry if it seems like I was laughing at your card, I was just making a joke to describe what I think it's problem is. I think it's a great idea, however should be worth less VP. This is worth more then a province, and it can be stolen by thief. This means that if someone buys theif, everyone else does; like a knights scramble but worse. However, you are right in the way that the power level of copperfield is different every game.

Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate any feedback.
Please keep in mind that the VP worth a Province or more are spread over a lot of cards that are otherwise better junk. Just think about having a starting deck, where each Copper is a Mini-Harem ($1 / 1VP). Would you always keep them in your deck?

Boards that allow rapid trashing of the Coppers will largely ignore Thief+. If a player decides to go for Thief+ and the VP-Coppers, they do it at the cost of having a junk deck. This will be sometimes a valuable option, but other times not. I am confident that on many boards, if someone buys a Thief+, the opponents can still ignore it, even when the Thief+ player is able to steal all the Copperfields.

I think its problem is that it puts Thief on the board.

Could you please tell me what the problem with Thief is?

The problem with copperfield is it is concentrated in one card, stealable by thief. This is a ~14-point swing, which can easily decide games. Thief sucks because:
1) It doesn't produce resources. Attacks should also produce resources (+2$ for militia, +2 Cards for witch, etc)
2) It trashes other's copper's, which helps them
3) It has been successfully re-implemented by noble brigand and by bandit (which replaced theif in the base second edition), so there is zero reason to play with theif when other cards do the same thing but better

103

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 21, 2020, 09:14:15 am »

My submission:

>Get my Copperfield trashed with thief
>Lose ~7 VP and quietly weep

Also btw 1VP per copper is i think way too much. Comparing to shepherd's pasture - Estates cost more, there are less of them, and they are a dead card in your deck.

I am sorry to see you laughing at my cards. Let me tell you what I think about it:

You say Estates are dead. I say they are less dead in combination with Shepherd than Coppers with Thief; I wouldn’t exactly call the Coppers lively. Let’s say, Thief steals Copperfield, so what? The Thief player has gained ~6VP at that very moment, but for what prize? To get the VP through the finish line, the Thief player has a lot of ballast to carry around. For each single VP they want to score via Copperfield (2 VP if they stole a Copperfield and can keep them), they have to keep a Copper in their deck.

You mentioned in your post #6771 that the Heirloom-extended cards presented so far would dominate the game. I haven’t looked at all entries, but I would say that Thief +Copperfield would still not dominate a lot of games. If there is good trashing, or nowadays even Exiling, and all Engine components are around, a player not going for Thief (or doing so late in the game to upset their Thief opponents), would weep if their opponent steals their Copperfield and Coppers along the way –for joy.

However, if things are a bit different, e.g. no good trashing, the presence of some Engine components under par, maybe a strong Gold gainer, or some powerful Treasures (including other Heirlooms) around, Thief+ actually can be considered to be gained and is probably in some games a must-buy. That is how I view the power of Thief +Copperfield: Excellent in some games, ok-ish in some others, weak in still others.

Either way, the presence of Thief+ plus in a Kingdom and of Copperfield in the player’s decks, forces the players to think about the strength of Thief +Copperfield. I thought that’s a good criterion to make a card interesting.

Sorry if it seems like I was laughing at your card, I was just making a joke to describe what I think it's problem is. I think it's a great idea, however should be worth less VP. This is worth more then a province, and it can be stolen by thief. This means that if someone buys theif, everyone else does; like a knights scramble but worse. However, you are right in the way that the power level of copperfield is different every game.

104

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: August 20, 2020, 11:06:59 pm »

Scrap market - 6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+1 Coin
Gain a silver
Gain a horse

Scrapped Market -
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+
Gain a Silver
Gain a Horse
You may trash this card, if you did: Discard a card. If you have any + actions remaining, you now have 1 less. This turn, buying a card requires 2 buys. Take the - token. Trash a silver from your discard pile. Return a horse from your discard pile to the horse pile.

Marketed Scrap
+1 Card. For each +1 Action is Horses, choose a Buy: +1 Silver, $$$

105

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 20, 2020, 10:41:42 pm »

My thoughts about this contest:
First of all, this is a really great concept and there are lots of good ideas being posted. However some heirlooms seems to be elevating their heirloomees to a must-buy status, turning the game into something with only one strategy. I think even mine is guilty of this. If we look at the heirlooms:
Shepherd/Pasture: Firstly, pasture helps shepherd draw. That much is obvious. However, going for the estates is only feasible with buy and/or gainers. Even then, it's not like you get that many points out of it and it will need to be complemented by something else. Finally, shepherd doesn't work well with thin trashing decks or decks that like to hide away VPs (Island, exile, native village, etc.), and also with shelters
Haunted Mirror/Cemetary: Cemetary is only useful to get rid of curses and starting estates, maybe copper. You probably won't have more than two in your deck. Also, cemetary is a trasher just in case there isn't another one. Haunted mirror I think can be compared to arena, only you lose 1$ for that turn and get a ghost instead of 2VP. Early game that's good, but I don't think I'd take that deal with only a few turns left in the game. Plus, you can only use it once (barring Treasurer  I guess)
Magic Lamp/Secret Cave: tbh haven't played enough with this to know the strategy or how game-warping wishes are. Sorry.
Goat/Pixie: The only reason pixie has goat is so double flames gift isn't broken on a board with no trashing. Yeah goat is a good card, but doesn't really dominate strategies in any way other than some bonus trashing.
Tracker/Pouch: Again not much intersection, other than pouch's buy taking advantage of tracker's top decking effect. Easily one of the weaker heirlooms. Not much effect on boards, unless there is no other buy.
Cursed Gold/Pooka: Here's an heirloom that actually makes it's card weaker, by being explicitly referenced, but I guess we can't do that in the contest... Cursed gold really shakes up the openings and makes for interesting choices but again, not really a deciding factor on what strategy to play. Pooka's alright, I guess.
Fool/Lucky coin: Lucky coin was only put in to stop the boonage of fool, then Donald X. never took it out. No intersection here. I think Lucy Coin is best compared to Cursed Gold, as they can both be hard choices on whether to play. Again the silvers are rarely game-breaking, other than foedum I guess?

Point is, the heirlooms are all there either as little boosts to underpowered cards (tracker, shepherd), something to rein in a card's effect (Pooka, Pixie), or, y'know, just cuz its cool (fool, cemetary). Let's look at my entry: the whole being a unique card adds to harvest (also tying in the discard effect), and the discard for coffers is there so that it won't screw up openings. I'm worried the VP might be pushing it, though. Comparing to pasture/shepherd:
Unique name = Being VP for shepherd
Discard for coffers = 1$ treasure
Mini-museum for actions = VP for estates? Actions are something you'd want in your deck anyways, while the estate bonus plays more like a traditional alt-VP (i.e. you need enablers like gainers, buy, etc)

Thanks for staying with me for this wall of text...

106

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas

« on: August 20, 2020, 05:21:39 pm »

My friend wanted a card to kill engines . I think this should do the job. 20 in the supply. Could maybe add +1 action

Even if you win this is worse then duchies

107

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 20, 2020, 04:57:57 pm »

My submission:

>Get my Copperfield trashed with thief
>Lose ~7 VP and quietly weep

Also btw 1VP per copper is i think way too much. Comparing to shepherd's pasture - Estates cost more, there are less of them, and they are a dead card in your deck.

108

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 20, 2020, 03:57:33 pm »

With this, the opening splits would be: 3/3, 5/1 and 4/2. That's kinda cool in a way. I like the card too.

Edit: Oh but wait. The discarding clause, it happens even during Cleanup, correct? If so, then the Coffers makes the opening split even weirder.

Some openings are strictly better then others though. Split the six coppers into two hands. Then if you put the bale in the first hand, that's better then putting it in the second hand, since you can use the coffer earlier. Is this a problem, or simply harmless luck that barely will affect the game?

For example 111BE/EE111 is better then 111EE/111EB since now the first player can open 3/4 if they want, or 3/3 while the second player doesn't have such a choice

109

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: August 20, 2020, 03:48:51 pm »

Scrap market - 6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+1 Coin
Gain a silver
Gain a horse

110

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 20, 2020, 03:42:19 pm »

Bale for Harvest:
1. Harvest could use the extra naming power
2. Likes variety too, it's a mini-fairgrounds
3. Gets a bonus when discarded, and if harvest or other actions do it you can use it this turn

111

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest

« on: August 20, 2020, 03:23:41 pm »

Would be a good idea for a week of the weekly design contest.

We did have it once, right back at contest #18.

Variants on official cards might be a big enough field to explore with contests, or maybe not. Depends on how flexible you'd allow things to be, like would borrowing mechanics from other expansions be allowed? If not, I doubt there would be much room. Unless you do like Empires did to Prosperity, a new expansion extending a current expansion theme.

Another fun contest would be for a "sequel" expansion, like how adventures is the seaside sequel, and empires is the prosperity sequel. I guess renaissance is a bit of guilds and dark ages. However, it would be fun to do new mechanics to complement Intrigue, or Nocturne maybe? Corncucopia would be interesting too.

112

Variants and Fan Cards / Card updating contest

« on: August 19, 2020, 02:50:35 pm »

How would you guys feel about a new design contest, similar to the weekly design contest, about updating bad cards from older expansions, much like was done in the Base and Intrigue with the replaced cards? The cards could be tweaked, or could be a whole new card with the same concept or mechanic (like scout and patrol). Each week would have three or so cards from older expansions to improve.

113

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 18, 2020, 07:14:30 pm »

I realised my old submission didn't need to say any number, so here's a new one: (sorry pubby)


A scullion was the guy who swept and cleaned the kitchen.
Edit: whoops scullian should be duration. Sorry

114

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 15, 2020, 11:59:25 am »

Update to Gild - now a project, golds are only revealed so it encourages buying multiple cheap VPs.

115

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 14, 2020, 11:07:31 am »

Here's my entry: Gild
Apply Gold to your VPs to make them extra fancy. Likes gold gainers, but also has a mine capability built-in. An alt-VP strat that was inspired by Groundskeeper.

116

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.

« on: August 13, 2020, 09:52:50 pm »

How do you make the final version of cards? Do you use Photoshop or something similar or do you have the publisher or artist do it? Also, do you write to artists after you are done the final version of an expansion? Sorry for all of the questions!

117

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 13, 2020, 09:52:02 am »

Official any number Dominion cards:
Cellar (discard, to draw)
Vault (discard, for coin)
Inn (reveal actions, to shuffle into deck)
Storeroom (discard, to draw), (discard, for coin)
Artificer (discard, to gain onto deck equal in cost to amount discarded)
Night Watchman (discard, from five cards revealed from deck)
Crypt (treasures, to put into hand on later turns)
Silos (discard coppers, to draw)
Hostelry (discard treasures, to gain horses)
Black Market (play treasures, for coin to buy from black market)

118

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.

« on: August 12, 2020, 03:46:23 pm »

Are there any mechanics/effects/themes you regret using on a card that could have been better elsewhere? (ex. reactions, attacks, an interesting top/bottom on an otherwise bland card, etc.)

119

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 12, 2020, 12:06:04 pm »

This is a Butcher variant using a new mechanic I've been thinking about: Apprentices. Apprentices are cards that get better over the course of the game by fulfilling certain actions. They do this via Experience tokens, represented by the purple gem. Experience tokens are limited, similarly to the wood cubes for projects. Each player can only have three.

I'm afraid that you will max out the apprentice tokens very fast, and then this becomes an inexpensive expand variant. In most cases you can have the full effect on your second buy of it.

Yeah that's probably the case too often. I'll change it to an earlier version where the way to get tokens was on-play.

This is busted. The correct play here is to discard three cards on the first play to turn this into an expand for 4$ with +1 card (btw +1 Card is imo an extremely awkward bonus and I think no terminal card in the game has it. If you need a small bonus to buff a card, use buy or money.)

120

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.

« on: August 08, 2020, 08:02:49 pm »

Would you have made Holstery an overpay card if you could have?

121

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 06, 2020, 10:18:33 pm »

A simple project for this week. Strong sifter, but it lowers your handsize.

Not only is this really really good, but also will take way too long to resolve.
For reference, playing warehouse twice gives +6, discard six, so this is almost as good as a free double warehouse each turn

122

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 06, 2020, 04:53:16 pm »

A golem but not really. Watch out! If it plays a copper you can't buy another one. I think playing up to four cards counts as big?

123

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 04, 2020, 09:10:14 pm »

Would sinister plot count for this contest?

124

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Collecting WDC cards into an expansion

« on: August 01, 2020, 11:39:30 pm »

Slap a minus two cost token on viceroy, and bam! Infinite loop with BoM. It needs the command type.

125

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 01, 2020, 11:31:22 pm »

Updated submission: