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1301

Dominion General Discussion / Re: New Promos: Church, Captain (Gen Con 2019)

« on: August 06, 2019, 01:56:19 pm »

I don't think that Captain is a $7. A simple heuristic is vanilla stuff (sure, there is other stuff like Captain being bad because it is a Duration and misses shuffles and being good because doing stuff at the start of your turn increases concistency). If you play around with it you can easily see that it is weaker than KC. For example Captain-Peddler has net effects of +1 Card, +1 Action, +2 Coins whereas KC-Peddler has net effects of +1 Card, +2 Actions, +3 Coins.

I mean. Sure. But you can't make Captain hit Peddler the second time, and the first is capital-T tricky because you'd need to hit it with a bunch of cost reduction first. Also can you talk through those numbers? I'm not seeing how you're getting them.

1302

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 06, 2019, 11:58:08 am »

@Gendo -
feel like it's definitely going to shine in strength in kingdoms with a variety of costs - potions, debt, etc. - that there's nothing to change things into.

Also is <4> or <8> cheaper? because I don't think that's ever been errata'd.

1303

Dominion General Discussion / Re: New Promos: Church, Captain (Gen Con 2019)

« on: August 06, 2019, 11:07:37 am »

any rough idea when these'll be available via bgg?

1304

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 06, 2019, 11:02:45 am »

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.

I think you misunderstand something - this does not veto any buys. It just makes it so that when you buy a card, one of the cards you have in play changes its form. The "if you didn't..." clause in there is just to prevent trying and failing to exchange Coppers when the Curses have run out.

EDIT: You're right that it does veto buying a Copper when you have nothing in play. But that's really a fringe case.

Right but like, it's a constant swindler while it's out; in a kingdom where buys are the only way to gain things, that's way too powerful. Its not even just the first buy in a turn - it's every buy. Way too strong for $3.

1305

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 06, 2019, 10:18:56 am »

Charlatan
$3 - Action/Duration/Attack

+1 Buy
Until your next turn, when another player buys a card, they choose a card they have in play and exchange it for a card costing at most the same as the chosen card with a different type. If they didn't, they return the bought card to the supply. At the start of your next turn: Gain a Silver to your hand.

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.

1306

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions

« on: August 06, 2019, 09:51:49 am »

I also took out a couple cards (well, one pile, and then a contingent pile) that people might find interesting.

Here's the pile:


aaaaand here's the contingent pile (it's a unique one):


Rules for Gods cards - at the end of the game, each one in your deck is worth -2VP; Any time they would be trashed or lost track of, they're returned to the Gods pile.

My rationale for removing them was 1) way too swingy/hard to balance 2) Ruins are funnier 3) the weird rules around KC/Throne Room-ing them 4) Would need to include Night card rules in a set that otherwise does not have Night Cards 5) weird rules unique to that pile.

Again, not part of Heresy, just a fun outtake while I prep for next weeks set, Syndicate

1307

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 06, 2019, 09:15:04 am »

Wow, it's a $4 pillage that's reusable! Except, it doesn't actually discard cards. Instead, it maliciously havens them.

I think it's too much. First of all, the effect this has on the opponent's next turn is actually worse than Pillage; with Pillage, they at least have the chance to redraw the discarded card. More importantly however, this sets itself up to be stackable: play Customs one turn, and you will be able to attack with 2 Customs on the following turn. I think this is going to be too crippling.

From a tracking perspective, it's probably not a good idea to keep a bunch of cards from different players on the same card.

You can probably fix the tracking thing by putting an island-mat-style customs mat in. Everyone gets a customs mat, this makes people put things on their customs mat. Maybe even have like, slots, "A", "B", "C", "D", in the event there's a lot of these that come out, so you can keep track of which cards were hit by which Customs.

Also you could probably make this into a $6 super mean attack card by having them draw a card first (instead of you gaining a Spoils)

Although when Customs clears, they're probably set up for a mega-turn.

1308

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions

« on: August 05, 2019, 06:10:59 pm »

Another card I couldn't remember/find the OP on, this card died forum-wise among a pricing dispute (was priced at $6, that was too little; priced at $9 was too high; etc) - pricing it with a potion, and making it only able to bury a Victory/Curse when initially playing it seems to even it out a bit.

I think it's based on Kru5h's Cell:

Cell

This card is probably way too powerful. Comparable to Hireling I think, but cheaper.

You mention "making it only able to bury a Victory/Curse when initially playing it" as if you've done that, but your card only says "set aside a card." Assistant can bury any kind of card.

Also, you might want to word Assistant like Scheme: "At the start of each of your Clean-up phases, you may exchange a card you would discard from play with the set aside card," because as it's worded currently, it can allow you to get an indefinite amount of effective Hirelings.

Good call on the wording.
The only able to bury a Victory/Curse part - how do you get a Victory or Curse into play to swap in? (aside from Heretic or Inheritance, I guess?)

edit: realized what happened - we meant different things - I meant the only opportunity to bury vanilla green/purple was during the initial play; you thought i meant you could only bury green/purple during the initial play.

1309

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 06:08:56 pm »

Here is my submission:


I wanted to do something that prevented cleaning up your cards. Originally, this didn't clean up any cards (including your hand) but then I realized that was too strong. This can work well with while in play effects (highway, groundskeeper, etc.). This works best if you're not drawing your deck every turn. Also when critiquing, note the downsides if you play this before a reshuffle (all your played cards miss the reshuffle).

To preempt people from saying that this is too strong compared to Outpost consider this: If you get a deck that can work with outpost (guide, or a well trashed deck) you can effectively double your turns for the rest of the game. If you have a deck that can draw settlement every turn then settlement doesn't provide a great benefit, since all your played cards can't be played again. If you can't draw settlement every turn, then while it will give you extra turns, it won't double your turns for the rest of the game.

I feel like its too strong to be priced at $5 without an additional restriction. Like if this read "+5 cards, go back to your Action phase" (which is essentially what its saying) thats like a $6 or $7 card. Maybe add a restriction where if its the second Settlement it does that?

It's not quite +5 Cards. It's like what you said (in quotation marks) but with discard your hand first. I still definitely agree that it's too strong for just [$5], though. I'd price it at [$7] or add an additional restriction.
I don't get what you said that I put in bold, though. Does what?

Well right now, it's "If this is the first Settlement you played this turn", right?
and Night cards are inherently non-terminal?
So make the first one do nothing and the second "If this is the second Settlement you played this turn", which adds a treasure map-esque element to the card.

Here is my submission:

I don't know if it's worded like this but the idea is that you can veto someone's veto, so if I have played a veto, then play a Village, someone else discards a Veto from play to make me play something else, then I can discard my Veto to be able to play my Village.

Can you veto someone else playing a veto? I thought debt was kinda like potions, in that it was orthogonally priced from $

1310

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 05:45:59 pm »

Here is my submission:


I wanted to do something that prevented cleaning up your cards. Originally, this didn't clean up any cards (including your hand) but then I realized that was too strong. This can work well with while in play effects (highway, groundskeeper, etc.). This works best if you're not drawing your deck every turn. Also when critiquing, note the downsides if you play this before a reshuffle (all your played cards miss the reshuffle).

To preempt people from saying that this is too strong compared to Outpost consider this: If you get a deck that can work with outpost (guide, or a well trashed deck) you can effectively double your turns for the rest of the game. If you have a deck that can draw settlement every turn then settlement doesn't provide a great benefit, since all your played cards can't be played again. If you can't draw settlement every turn, then while it will give you extra turns, it won't double your turns for the rest of the game.

I feel like its too strong to be priced at $5 without an additional restriction. Like if this read "+5 cards, go back to your Action phase" (which is essentially what its saying) thats like a $6 or $7 card. Maybe add a restriction where if its the second Settlement it does that?

1311

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions

« on: August 05, 2019, 04:40:13 pm »

done, and also i changed the name because i didn't realize I'd used "Crumbling" twice.

1312

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 04:33:46 pm »

Source
Type: Action / Duration
Cost: $4

Add 4 Coin tokens to this. While any remain, at the start of each of your turns, you may remove a Coin token from here for +$1, +1 Action, or +1 Buy.

feel like you could almost do a thing where each option has like, a space for a coin token, and when you remove a coin you can't pick that option again, thereby protecting against having this be a cheaper hireling

edit: ah i see you edited it to get rid of the "I'm actually a cheaper hireling" option

1313

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions

« on: August 05, 2019, 04:09:07 pm »

My wording on Crumbling Bridge was much too strong, but I do think it's too strong for a Ruin.

Maybe change it to be a silvers-only Bridge?

1314

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions

« on: August 05, 2019, 03:46:47 pm »

These look cool, I'll take a look at the other cards too, I'm just rejoining the forum after a few month's break.

I really like the Clergy, I'll maybe take a closer look at each specifically later. Two of the sisters have the colors switched.

Did the reversed colors with the Looter-Nuns, to make the most important types (Action, Attack, Victory) show up better.

Because of the way treasures are played, I think you can pretty much always play Cursed Coin, I think that might break it.

yeah but you still gotta deal with the curse from it. Also you can only play one per turn, you're SOL if you get ruined with several of them.

Crumbling Bridge looks much too strong.

?

Not sure why Review is worded like that, I think the original wording was better if I'm remembering it correctly.

this puts it more in line with how other intrigue-y choice cards are worded; I probably wouldn't have done it this way if I'd had more than two options, but here we are.

Archbishop looks incorrectly worded, I'm not quite sure how to fix it.

You think so too, huh? I had a couple more clumsy options ("total up the cost of all cards trashed this and gain 1% per $2 of the sum of cards trashed's cost"?) and am open to suggestions on how to fix that.

Thanks for checking these out!

1315

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions

« on: August 05, 2019, 03:04:12 pm »

Last wave of cards for Heresy: aka variants on other peoples cards & why it's a dark ages sequel

First up:
Clergy. All trashers of various flavors.


this is the only double potion cost card in this set. Can probably run the Ruins pile very quickly in a deck with +Buys.
edit: realized I had a ping-pong problem where if two players had a Ward, it'd keep going forever. Added a two use max per Ward.


Made this a bit stronger since the weekly design contest. It also makes sense as a potion-remodel in this set.

There's five of each type of Ruins; If you've got Dark Ages, mix 'em on in. They're all at best situationally useful; tried to make a ruin for most other card archetypes, including treasure ruins, duration ruins, and reaction ruins.


And cards where I riffed on someone else's idea:

From Gubump's "Planetarium" thread.


don't remember who made this originally. I changed the first non-vanilla line to be specific (which helps with census treasures like philosopher's stone).


variant on kru5h's card "Ivory Tower"


variant on scolapasta's Archbishop that brings it a little closer to the original Bishop from prosperity and makes you play a minigame to get him back into your deck.


Based on kru5h's "Cell". pricing it with a potion, and making it only able to bury a Victory/Curse when initially playing it seems to even it out a bit.

1316

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 10:37:32 am »

that's why you've got seven - six to play to trigger the discard, one to yeet the discard back to the draw pile.

Sure, you could build a deck of 6 Fishmongers, play them all, then play 5 again. You will have 11 Buys and all Actions will cost $5 less. That's great, you can get a lot of engine components in one turn. But in all the subsequent turns, you will not be able to keep the Fishmongers in play so you will only profit from the extra Buys; they will degenerate into mere Market Squares for $5 (respectively double Market Squares).
I think a more realistic scenario is one in which you will gain less Fishmongers and build up your engine more gradually.

Bear with me, because I think it's a neat card that deserves to be in the running: You've gotta CYA for your edge cases, not just the nominal uses.
You've got a deck with seven Fishmongers.
You've got a hand  of 5 Fishmongers.
You play one. You draw a Fishmonger.
You play a second. You draw a Fishmonger.
third, fourth, fifth, you don't have deck to draw, but you're racking up buys.
You play a sixth. You don't have deck to draw, but it triggers the discard. You keep your buys. You still have a fishmonger in your hand.

You play the seventh - all the sudden you have deck to draw, from your discard. And seven buys. And you can do it again. And again.

The fix for this is either some sort of alternate substate of "in-play" (turn them sideways?) where they can only be discarded when they're in the alternate state, i think. On the turn they're played, they'd need to go from in-play (normal) to the alternate state, and only then be discarded as there'd be six or more in play.

Thanks, you are right and I changed the wording.

Also i kinda like your idea of the cards going to limbo rather than your discard pile, and only going from limbo to the discard pile at the start of your cleanup. Makes for some kind of subtle niche situations where your opponent scrapping your fishmongers can cause them to miss the shuffle if you have a big enough turn.

It’s simple, I like it. A little bit boring, but seems balanced. I think putting the coin on the first option was the right move.

yeah i was thinking villages should be simple. Also it's boring because i seem to kick up a shitstorm every time I think outside of vanilla.
i guess there's power grid fans on this forum so this should be right up your alley. forgive the bad photoshop work, I do much better with physical art.


+


a classic spineflu hubris card.

I like this. It is a bit wording- / material-intense for what it does but the notion of a Treasure that becomes weaker with limited plays is cool as it (often/always?) creates a run and later everybody wants to trash their Commodities.
Although if you run 2 copies, playing them alternatingly, they are still partly-delayed Golds (2 this turn, 1 next turn) if demand is down to zero. So perhaps the card is a bit too good?

hm. yeah. Maybe swap that first line for "if you have an even number of Commodities in play, $2; otherwise $1".
edit: also the first is only a partly-delayed silver - when you play it, you've only got one Commodity in play. So one is (1+MD, 1), the next is (2+MD, 1), etc

1317

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 10:21:21 am »

that's why you've got seven - six to play to trigger the discard, one to yeet the discard back to the draw pile.

Sure, you could build a deck of 6 Fishmongers, play them all, then play 5 again. You will have 11 Buys and all Actions will cost $5 less. That's great, you can get a lot of engine components in one turn. But in all the subsequent turns, you will not be able to keep the Fishmongers in play so you will only profit from the extra Buys; they will degenerate into mere Market Squares for $5 (respectively double Market Squares).
I think a more realistic scenario is one in which you will gain less Fishmongers and build up your engine more gradually.

Bear with me, because I think it's a neat card that deserves to be in the running: You've gotta CYA for your edge cases, not just the nominal uses.
You've got a deck with seven Fishmongers.
You've got a hand  of 5 Fishmongers.
You play one. You draw a Fishmonger.
You play a second. You draw a Fishmonger.
third, fourth, fifth, you don't have deck to draw, but you're racking up buys.
You play a sixth. You don't have deck to draw, but it triggers the discard. You keep your buys. You still have a fishmonger in your hand.

You play the seventh - all the sudden you have deck to draw, from your discard. And seven buys. And you can do it again. And again.

The fix for this is either some sort of alternate substate of "in-play" (turn them sideways?) where they can only be discarded when they're in the alternate state, i think. On the turn they're played, they'd need to go from in-play (normal) to the alternate state, and only then be discarded as there'd be six or more in play.

1318

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 10:07:21 am »

so
edge case nitpicking but if there were a bunch of treasure-action or night-actions out played in the treasure/night phases, would that still count towards the potential shutdown on this?

Yes.

less edge case nitpicking but when you play six of these on a turn, are they immediately discarded? or do they wait around until your cleanup phase for that? If they're discarded right away, what stops you from thinning your deck to six or seven of these, autocycling them for infinity buys, then playing three and clearing the copper, silver and estates piles for a game over/victory?

The infinite loop cannot arise as you play the card, draw a card and only then, if the condition is fulfilled, discard all your Fishmongers. Furthermore, Fishmonger only reduces the price of Actions.

that's why you've got seven - six to play to trigger the discard, one to yeet the discard back to the draw pile.

Additionally, infinity buys can still buy out the copper pile, which in a gardens game or game with Action-Victory cards makes it break, not to mention you can still three pile on actions whenever

i feel like at $4 you'd want your cantrips to not provide cost reduction AND +Buys

That's why I chose an initial price of $5.

sorry, was going off your first post of it when I was replying.

1319

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 09:57:49 am »

A shot at a Duration with a variable length:


$5
Fishmonger
Action-Duration

+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
———————
While this is in play, at the start of your turn, +1 Buy and Action cards cost $1 less during your turn (but no less than $0).
This stays in play until any player, including you, has 6 Action cards in play.


I don't know whether the wording is clear. The idea is that this should get immediately discarded when somebody has 6 Actions in play.
I am not sure about the parameters. This could be too expensive at $5 and 6 Action is fairly arbitrary; it requires testing to see what the best number of Actions is.

so
edge case nitpicking but if there were a bunch of treasure-action or night-actions out played in the treasure/night phases, would that still count towards the potential shutdown on this?

less edge case nitpicking but when you play six of these on a turn, are they immediately discarded? or do they wait around until your cleanup phase for that? If they're discarded right away, what stops you from thinning your deck to six or seven of these, autocycling them for infinity buys, then playing three and clearing the copper, silver and estates piles for a game over/victory?

i feel like at $4 you'd want your cantrips to not provide cost reduction AND +Buys, even if they're self-scrapping. Maybe have them provide cost reduction OR buys based on whether there's an even/odd number of cards in play (kinda like that one treasure from nocture whose name is escaping me), like "if there's an odd number of action cards in play, +1 Buy; otherwise, Action cards cost $1 less during your turn (but no less than $0)"?

1320

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Semi-Interesting Dominion Moments Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 09:44:15 am »

Today I trashed a Province with Catapult reaching 8$ to grab the last Province and win with a one-point lead because of the curse from the Catapult.

It felt weird trashing a Province with Catapult.

thematically, it must have been an obscenely large catapult.

1321

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: August 05, 2019, 09:18:48 am »

]It’s simple, I like it. A little bit boring, but seems balanced. I think putting the coin on the first option was the right move.

yeah i was thinking villages should be simple. Also it's boring because i seem to kick up a shitstorm every time I think outside of vanilla.


i guess there's power grid fans on this forum so this should be right up your alley. forgive the bad photoshop work, I do much better with physical art.


ft.


a classic spineflu hubris card.
If you really wanna make it fit entirely as a promo card, you could have a punchout coin token on the same cardboard slug as the Market Demand track.
edit history:
v4: Card text for Commodity is changed to read:

If you have a Commodity in play, increase the Market Demand track one step.

$1 plus $ based on the current position of the Market Demand track.
-
At the start of your next turn, +$1.
When you discard this from play, lower the Market Demand track one step.
-
Setup: In games using this, include the Market Demand track when setting up the Kingdom.

v2: updated first sentence to "If you have an even number of Commodities in play, $2; Otherwise $1." to make it less absurdly scaling.

v1: Commodity - Treasure / Duration - $5
"
+$1 per Commodity you have in play.

+$ based on the current position of the Market Demand track.
-
On your next turn, +$1

When you discard this from play, lower the Market Demand track one step.
-
Setup: In games using this, include the Market Demand track when setting up the Kingdom.
"

Market Demand (Coffers-style mat for tracking Market Demand value)
Setup: Place a coin token on the right-most space of the track. When a card instructs you to lower the track, move the coin token to the next space on the left.

1322

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!

« on: August 04, 2019, 07:14:18 am »

yeah sure i'll bite. Here's one that works with captain, workshop, etc as kind of an inverse cost reducer. It's not always gonna be worthwhile (when there's no cards that select by price on the board) but workshopping grand markets sounds pretty chill.

edit: fixed to remove some ambiguity

What exactly does "select" mean here? What does "selecting" a card costing $2 more actually do?

so take a peek at Workshop - "Gain a card costing up to $4" - this is selecting a card from the supply that costs up to $4, then gaining it. This lets you select a card costing up to $6 with it.

Or consider Smugglers. If you have this project, your opponent bought a province last turn, you can smuggle a province.

If that's how you intend the card to work it is broken: Bandit/Soothsayer gain Provinces and Treasure Map gains 4 Provinces.

figured out a cleaner way to phrase the card (i'll change the actual image on monday when im not working off a phone):

During your Action phase, cards everywhere cost $2 less (to a minimum of $0).

1323

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!

« on: August 03, 2019, 09:59:53 am »

yeah sure i'll bite. Here's one that works with captain, workshop, etc as kind of an inverse cost reducer. It's not always gonna be worthwhile (when there's no cards that select by price on the board) but workshopping grand markets sounds pretty chill.

edit: fixed to remove some ambiguity

What exactly does "select" mean here? What does "selecting" a card costing $2 more actually do?

so take a peek at Workshop - "Gain a card costing up to $4" - this is selecting a card from the supply that costs up to $4, then gaining it. This lets you select a card costing up to $6 with it.

Or consider Smugglers. If you have this project, your opponent bought a province last turn, you can smuggle a province.

1324

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions

« on: August 02, 2019, 02:42:13 pm »

Updated Orrery to be a cantrip and cost $2^

Part 3 of 4
Or: How to potions overpay without wrecking your deck.


Coffers but with potions.

Here's some vanilla applications:

an event that doesn't use a buy and has a variable cost


a combo treasure


a nonterminal cantrip-or-trasher


a festivillage

And a set of unique "occult" cards that borrowed from the Boons in terms of what does what.

1325

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!

« on: August 02, 2019, 11:28:44 am »

yeah sure i'll bite. Here's one that works with captain, workshop, etc as kind of an inverse cost reducer. It's not always gonna be worthwhile (when there's no cards that select by price on the board) but workshopping grand markets sounds pretty chill.

edit: fixed to remove some ambiguity

edit 2:
Revised to this:

which does essentially the same thing and also wrecks Band of Misfits a little bit, since when you play it, its cost is now $3.