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1626

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Rules Challenge

« on: July 30, 2011, 05:51:39 pm »

shanty town??

Wrong because the card says you must reveal your hand, so you're wrong to argue you don't have to.

Throne Room

Correct, you might have action cards in hand and technically be required to play them with the Throne Room, but there is no rules reason to show your hand.

Donald X. has mentioned wishing we would have worded Throne Room like he did King's Court to avoid this sort of cheating. I was thinking about this and discovered Throne Room is not the only example. Which other cards could it be?

-Note added to OP

1627

Puzzles and Challenges / Rules Challenge

« on: July 30, 2011, 05:16:10 pm »

You have just played an Action card from your hand, but have yet to carry out the action described on the card. You decide for whatever reason you don't feel like doing it, so you don't. Your opponent suspects you may be cheating and demands to see your hand. You argue that you are not required to show your hand.

As a matter of fact, both you and your opponent are correct; you are in fact cheating, yet you are not technically required to show your hand. Which cards could you have just played?

Solved for one example: Throne Room.

1628

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought exercise: nerfs and buffs

« on: July 29, 2011, 01:53:09 am »

I would love to see an example game of Thief actually working, because I'm pretty sure I've never played one.

I was running a small basically Bishop and money deck, and my opponent had a Quarry, a lot of Villages, Bazaars, Festivals, and King's Courts, but no Treasures; essentially action chaining to no end. Then he realized picking up a few Thieves would wreck me, and it did. He didn't buy his 3 Thieves until Turn 13, just after I went green. Not long after, my deck was down to a Bishop, 1 Gold, a Province and 2 Colonies, and a fair number of VP tokens. (After resignation the log doesn't say how many I had, but the graph indicates it must be about 20) I technically had the lead still, but resigned due to the hopelessness of my scenario.

We both ignored Thief at first, and he told me afterward that he hadn't planned on it, just realized it in the moment.
Game log.

1629

Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry

« on: July 29, 2011, 01:06:42 am »

One more game, but I can keep this post short. This one was against mikemike, and the three relevant words are...King's Court, Ambassador. My final deck had 1 Copper and 28 other cards, his final deck had 10 Curses, 46 Coppers, and 28 other cards.
Game log.

1630

Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry

« on: July 29, 2011, 12:58:08 am »

So I really like double-Tactician decks, but of course they require cards with +$ on them otherwise you're going nowhere. Well I was playing a game where I wanted to go for such a deck, and the only virtual cash Actions were Pirate Ship and Mountebank. Salvager (technically also virtual cash I guess) and Upgrade were available for trashing, and I chose the more reliable and harmful Mountebanks for the cash. The village du jour was City, and the +2 card effect never mattered; may as well have been a normal Village.
Working with just Mountebanks for money you need 4 to buy a Province, so that's generally what I was working toward, but I didn't exactly figure out I should get 4 Mountebanks and stop playing Salvager; I bought a Gold near the end that just got Salvaged the next turn before figuring that out. Really this just dragged it out for my poor opponent, since I was playing multiple Mountebanks every turn...and then there's the real kicker: Ghost Ship. Every turn. He resigned once I bought my fourth Mountebank, and at the time he still technically had a lead of 5 points.

tl;dr: My double-Tactician deck used Mountebanks for cash, and I also was playing a Ghost Ship every turn, before the Mountebanks of course. My opponent resigned once I bought my fourth Mountebank.

Naturally you'd be wondering who would let me do all that without picking up a Ghost Ship or Mountebank for themselves...turns out it was the Larry.

Game log.

[Edit]
I think just looking at the contents of my final deck does just as much to describe my opponent's pain as my whole post does...
[13 cards] 4 Cities, 4 Mountebanks, 2 Tacticians, 1 Ghost Ship, 1 Salvager, 1 Province

1631

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: 4 provinces in 10 turns

« on: July 25, 2011, 10:11:38 pm »

With favorable shuffling, I feel a single Envoy may be able to do it.

1632

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Thanks everyone

« on: July 25, 2011, 01:35:38 am »

Ahh...gotcha..

Just gotta keep telling myself "it is just a game afterall"...  I'd prefer to go with "goodbye friends", since the people reading this forum are the ones I actually liked playing with.

Agreed. I guess I've been fortunate in my experiences so far; I've only had two or three bad ones that I specifically remember, but I can definitely sympathize with the sinking feeling of a sinking level.

1633

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Thanks everyone

« on: July 25, 2011, 01:01:39 am »

I've just gotta know...GCW?

I just did a quick search but figured it out before I saw any of the search results. "Goodbye Cruel World."

1634

Dominion Isotropic / Re: My two Coppers

« on: July 22, 2011, 11:56:59 pm »

Isotropic is run by one guy (dougz) who is friendly with Donald and Jay (Rio Grande Games). An official Dominion program being worked on in the (hopefully not too far) future. At that time Isotropic won't be kept up anymore. This topic has been discussed already quite a bit in the threads below. Before freaking out that Isotropic will be finished some day (not that I'm saying you would, but others did in one of these threads), keep in mind that Donald and Jay both want the game to be fun and whoever's working on it wants it to be good so they can pay rent, so I'm sure the commercial version will be great.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=175.0
(edit) quick FYI: In this thread, the discussion on a paid version is a few pages deep.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=256.0

1635

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Treasure Map in mid game?

« on: July 21, 2011, 11:16:03 pm »

Treasure maps create good bishop fuel.

Remodel fuel, too.

(edit) One of the fastest face-to-face games I've played involved Fishing Village, Treasure Map, Remodel, and there must have been some TM enabler as well (can't remember exactly what it was). It was a quick race to turn the riches the Treasure Maps brought us into prosperous land.

1636

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Double Tactician

« on: July 20, 2011, 10:03:39 pm »

Golem-ing into a Native Village instead of a Lab also works. Or anything else that can draw you at least one card and another Tactician with an action left.
To be fair, I've also seen a gamelog of this. The guy's strategy seemed mostly focused around getting this to happen, and in the end it worked! But he lost the game.
Still a cool feat though.

1637

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 19, 2011, 06:23:06 pm »

Hmmm, I guess that's why I was only pretty sure. 


I totally missed pulling something into the last players hand with Masquerade, but I also had totally overlooked the treasure tricks in my first attempts. 

lefaiison,
I think the detail you missed might be that the last player does not start with his Quarry in hand.  He just has Masq and 4 Coppers.  He then receives the 4 Talisman to replace his Coppers, plays his Masq, draws Quarry and a Copper, passes the Copper and receives the Contraband.

And this means all P1 has to do is buy a Contraband (instead of a Council Room) and pass it on down...

My original solution had Players 1-4 opening Talisman/Masquerade, Player 5 Contraband/Herbalist, and Player 6 Quarry Masquerade. Players pass the Talismans on down, and when it gets to Player 5's turn, he just puts Talisman back on his deck so he can pass it to Player 6, but having Player 1 buy Contraband eliminates the need for Herbalist.

1638

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 19, 2011, 05:57:42 pm »

Without Council Room I'm not sure how to get that Contraband into P6's hands.

With Council Room, P6 plays Masquerade then has 1 Copper and those other Treasures in hand, but that Copper obviously doesn't need to be there, so one way to look at it is that Council Room gave P6 an extra slot in hand that eventually went to a Copper instead of something useful.

1639

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 19, 2011, 05:46:44 pm »

I'll take a stab at it...

Looks like that works, but I didn't use Council Room. Our solutions do end with "You"/Player 6 playing the same Treasures.

1640

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 19, 2011, 05:38:26 pm »

In my solution Player 6 plays 1 Action card, then has 6 cards in hand, 5 of which cost $4. You need only one slot for Quarry.* My Kingdom requires 6 cards--well, 5 and Grand Market--4 of which cost $4 or less. As a final hint, something you were pretty sure of in an earlier post is wrong.

*it's a spoiler within a spoiler!

1641

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Riddle

« on: July 19, 2011, 04:42:34 pm »

kc forge/remodel/expand trash three colonies, gain 3 colonies
not sure if that counts though^^

That would only earn 30 points, not 33. I suspect the OP's solution is along the lines of guided's posted solution.

Dsnowman's solution is undoubtedly the best though.

1642

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 19, 2011, 04:13:21 pm »

I just got one player gaining all 10 Grand Markets on Turn 3 of a 6 player game 

Hmmm, well I am still stumped on that at this point.  Is this a solution with more than 10 Kingdom cards, or no?

No. In fact, it does not need even 10 Kingdom cards. I can post the exact number if you'd like.

1643

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 19, 2011, 03:33:24 pm »

I just got one player gaining all 10 Grand Markets on Turn 3 of a 6 player game 

1644

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 19, 2011, 02:56:19 pm »

(I think michaeljb may have come up with these first two before me, but I was too focused on the method I was using and thought these would take more than 10 Kingdom cards.)

Actually, nope. When you mentioned Masquerade and a large number of players Quarry and Talisman were jus the first cards that came to mind, but I haven't done any more work on maximizing number of Grand Markets on Turn 3.

To cover a couple things that have been pointed out in regards to the "original rules" of the puzzle, I was really just looking at ways to buy a Grand Market with no friendly interaction from other players (of course my Menagerie solution requires both players to play Sea Hag--or at least the first plays Sea Hag then the second plays an attack card that won't mess with your hand size--so that is sort of helpful interaction but not friendly in the same sense as buffing the Trade Route mat or Masquerading you useful cards).

I'm definitely a fan of the turn the discussion has taken towards getting gaining a whole bunch of GMs on Turn 3, regardless of helpful interaction--that's just awesome! So don't worry, you're not still the only one interested. I might even try to work on my own solutions now...

1645

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 18, 2011, 04:28:54 pm »

ehunt got the solution I was thinking of! When I said no Masquerade, what I should have said was no helpful interaction at all (like Trade Route or Council Room), but that's ok, because these other solutions are awesome.

Why is it Contraband            gets mentioned, but not Quarry                ?

Because you hadn't mentioned it yet, I suppose.

@Deadlock39: That Trade Route solution is awesome. Without thinking about it much, does your Masquerade solution involve passing Quarries and Talismans? (Talismen?)

1646

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 18, 2011, 12:50:08 am »

So turns out there are quite a few solutions I hadn't come across 

@Elyv: In your solution, it looks like you have Tribute interacting with all opponents, but it only interacts with the opponent to your left, so only the solution you listed for 2p works (but of course it will work for any number of players)

@ARTjoMS: With Mining Village, I know Secret Chamber would work, but I'm not seeing any other variations. Am I missing something here as well?

Here's a hint for the 3p solution I thought of...you have to go third, and one of your opening buys is a Menagerie. This solution has no friendly interaction (help from Masquerade/Ambassador/Council Room/Trade Route/etc).

1647

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 17, 2011, 02:55:15 pm »

The ht solution was an addendum to the other one; that is, you open ht sc and get cr'd and, say, sea hagged

Oh, I got it now. I misunderstood at first, I thought you were saying you would play the Horse Traders for +$3, rather than use it only for the reactionary draw to get Secret Chamber to $6. Clever, but still not what I'm looking for.

1648

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 17, 2011, 02:45:15 pm »

both opponents play council room and you have a secret chamber.

or, one of them attacks you instead, and you have a horse traders

That's a good one, but the solution I have in mind is quite a bit less friendly. Plus, if you had Lab+Secret Chamber, only one opponent Council Room need to be played, and then it pretty much works in 2p. So it's another solution I hadn't thought of, but mine can't be tweaked to work in 2p so easily.

Horse Traders gives you $3, where do you get the other $3?

1649

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Grand Market

« on: July 17, 2011, 02:29:50 pm »

1 and 2) Open Silver/Baron and draw them together with an estate on turn 3.

That's the solution I thought of for (1), but I'm looking for a different solution for (2). I edited that into the main post, but that might have happened after you saw it and replied.

1) Contraband/Secret Chamber

Cool cool, there is a solution I could not find.

The multiplayer solution is definitely more complicated than these 2, and involves an opening no one would really go for.

1650

Puzzles and Challenges / Grand Market

« on: July 17, 2011, 02:13:43 pm »

2-parter:

1) In a solitaire game, buy a Grand Market on Turn 3, without using Vault.
I've spent a good amount of time thinking about this, and I can only think of one solution so far.

2) In a 3p (or more) game, buy a Grand Market on Turn 3, without using Vault or Masquerade.
The solitaire solution works here, but the solution I have in mind does not work for 1 or 2 players.