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201
My Submission:




Quote
Evil Plan • $5 • Night - Duration
Choose one: set aside up to 3 Action cards
from your hand that you have a copy of in
play; or set aside an Imp from its pile. At
the start of your next turn, play the set
aside cards in any order.


My submission is Evil Plan. At worst, it will add an Imp to your deck and let you play it the following turn (effectively giving you +1 Action). As you build your deck, you will be able to set aside more cards (including prior copies of Imp).
This is obviously overpowered. The delayed vanilla net effects are either +1 Card, +1 Action, gain a near Lab or +2 Cards, +3 Actions.
That is significantly stronger than comparable cards like Lost City or Longship, respectively (your card is kinda like a digger) Golem or Ghost.

202
Unlike Torturer the card does not say that you could choose an option which you cannot do. So the second option is only for choice if you actually trash a card.

You can always choose options you cannot do, that's just a clarification on Torturer, not a modifier.
It is pretty obvious that this is not the intent behind the design.

203
Unlike Torturer the card does not say that you could choose an option which you cannot do. So the second option is only for choice if you actually trash a card.

204
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Revised versions of published cards
« on: May 09, 2023, 12:19:04 pm »
I missed that part which does indeed make the card too strong.

205
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Revised versions of published cards
« on: May 09, 2023, 01:42:28 am »
This only makes a difference with Black Cat.

206

Impeach
Event - $4

Exile a card from your hand to gain an Imp.


Sorry, could not resist a pun
This is obviously too good. Imp is a $4.5 and Exiling is pretty strong. When would you ever not open with this?

207

Most similar to Way of the Pig, it is essentially a cantrip, but you discard a card from play after drawing, which makes the conditional +1 Action easier to activate. It also allows you to play treasures in your action phase since that seems to be all the rage nowadays.
I don’t see how this could go infinite but there is definitely some loop potential if you can redraw and replay already played cards.

208
Sorry, my mistake.

209
Quote
Attila • 5CP • Character
2CP: Discard a Treasure card for +2 Actions and +1 Buy. 3CP: Discard a Victory card for +1 Card and +1 Action.+1CP for each Copper in play after the third.
You might want to clarify whether both options or only one is available per play.
I think that regaining CPs is a cool idea and the trade-off between trashing and Attila is cool in theory but I guess that you need a larger incentive.

210
Now what level of OP%  is considered ok?
A card being too strong or too weak is never ever OK. Just because the official game features some cards which are clearly overpowered does not imply that balance is irrelevant when you design fan cards.

There is also a difference between e.g. Cultist and Ironmonger, a broken design that is no fun and a very strong $4 that does not break anything. Your design isn't simply a strong $2, it is absolutey ludicrous at that price level.


The other feedback I tend to see is usually a "This is too op" and not much data showing why? Very few posts comment on how exciting it would be to play that card or oh that is interesting but under-costed compared to these official cards or based on this writing from the designer that core design has been playtested found to be problematic.
There is more (you exaggerate, most folks who host design contests provide deep feedback that includes other topics than balance) feedback on strength and costs here because that is easier to evaluate than how interesting, fun, innovative or game-warping a design is.

211


The idea is that if you don't have enough CPs, you can only reveal some cards and get some benefits. Perhaps there is a better wording to clarify this.

The vanilla shift exists to not make this not too crazy and automatic in the opening. Sure, you can gain some Horses and get a load of Villagers to not care about terminality for quite some time but no Coffers to ramp.

I feel pretty lost about the power level and chose 3 plays from a "normal" hand on the fly without any benchmark or deeper idea behind it.

212

Quote
Penny Pincher
Action - Liason
+2 Actions
+2 Buys
+2 Favor
I notice not many cards give multiple favor in official dominion so I thought might be nice to have cheap card do that. I went rather simple as the complexity will mostly come for the Ally. If the ally sucks well at least this card gives players a cheap but bad +2 Actions effect or +Buy effect as most engine decks really needed both.
This is just way too strong. Favors are generally good enough that a card doing nothing but terminally gaining +2 Favors would probably be fine at $2. Just some combinations with Allies for Penny Pincher (PP) would be:
Crafter's Guild: PP becomes a Village Workshop (though limited to 1 gain per turn, still extremely powerful).
Island Folk: If you can play just 2 PPs reliably, you get an extra turn each round.
Circle of Witches: PP is a nonterminal 2/3-Curser.
Fellowship of Scribes: Basically turns PP into a Village with 2 Buys attached.
Plateau Shepherds: Every PP is now also worth 2 VP.

An obvious comparison is Bauble, which effectively just gives +1 for each of the +2s that PP gives (with a bit more flexibility, but still).

These is kind of posts that ""show"" how strong/overpowered new cards are is one of the few comments you see on these forms. They all seem to be patterned after the a kingdom has X or Y this card would be too strong or comparing the card to many official cards that share DNA. Much of the ""gameplay"" of dominion is recognizing these power cases and if the board has enough support for the interaction without giving up other strong opportunities. So I wanted to go more into detail and compare PP to many other Dominion effects. Some combo are just strait too much such as autopileing, or infinite combos, or effects that generate mass value for too cheap. I don't believe PP has any of those issues assuming only using official Dominion cards.

The flat power level of +2 Actions with no +$ or +Cards  is pretty low as the Way of the Ox shows. The +2 Buys was added because to me PP still felt far too narrow to purchase this card if the Ally is middle power level and there was already another source of +Actions in the kingdom. But if the power level is too high I am willing to cut the +2 Buys as they are les core to PP's identify. The reason I did +2 vs +1 was it looked pretty mentally flows better with 2,2, vs 2,1,2 and +Buys to fall off in usefulness past the first unless Bridge effects are in the kingdom which typically break any decent card.

By the very nature of a Liaison its power level is highly dependent on the ally. Each of these ""break"" cases seems strong but not as centralizing as it first appears as many core official cards do better in similar situations already. Your statement that a terminally +2 Favor would be strong enough to see play feels silly to me. It would only see play on boards with plentiful +Actions from other sources and only if is is paired with the most strong Allies. Even then there are probably much better things players could be doing on that board. Now to focusing on the individual mentioned ""break"" cases.

Plateau Shepherds: Every PP is now also worth 2 VP.
If a board had a the basic village (+1 Card +2 Actions) would a player rather have more deck velocity with the +1 Card or flat 2VP? I am leaning toward early game the +1 Card as building as strong typically outdoes flat VP. If somebody had the $5$2 split then yes PP feels free and might lead to some feels bad, but so does most $5$2 split differences on like 30%+ boards. Now, in the mid to late game PP does provide some interesting options for amassing alt VP as the PP are worth 2VP but also Estates (which are easier to get with +2 Buys) can be worth 3VP. Gaining a PP card too late can easily lead to missing out on play it for favor meaning it is not worth 2VP and the more low velocity cards like PP and Estates players add to there deck the more often that will happen; which is common in alt VP strategies. This play pattern is very similar to distant lands, a bit easier as future plays of PP can prepay for late $2s, but also PP does self trash and has to remain in decks increase player's deck size while still providing very little value to players +$ or +cards engines. Feels like great deck to try out but not too dominate.

Fellowship of Scribes: Basically turns PP into a Village with 2 Buys attached. Now with this ally PP is very strong no doubt about that. PP is even more powerful as some decks PP becomes a Lost City with +2 favor can becoming +2 Cards if the hand is played right. But PP does get a bit clunky vs the official card listed as if a player gets a hand of 6 cards or above PP does a lot less. If PP is the only source source of draw they are limit to a 5 card hand with limits trashing opportunities and mega turn. This would be pretty common if VP card can't be trashed, Junkers or the payload in the kingdom are Treasure cards. Also if PP is paired with a more traditional draw effect the ability to get under 5 card can limit PP's ability to mimic Official Village or Lost City. A similar ally is League of Shopkeepers        with less of a hand management minigame it provides a lot value to the weak core of PP. Oddly enough though the +1 Action +1 Buy from the upgraded ally is much less relevant PP already does that. So not sure if scaling down the Flavor fixes this much vs just being decent. Also much like Merchant Camp the lack of +cards does make it much weaker then Market effects.

Circle of Witches: PP is a nonterminal 2/3-Curser. As I have learning in my experiences with Native Village the +1/2 Card +2 Actions tends to not work out as well as +1 Card + 2 Actions bit quite a huge margin. Some of the difference I suppose comes from the 1st play is doing basically nothing delaying the power spike by quite a bit. Other reasons is by doubling down on a faction effect much like journey token card Player maybe be trying to force a card vs play the reliable constant effects in the kingdom. This is doubly so when the combo faction effect miss shuffle and super delay the power spikes. So to me the 2/3 Curser seems slow enough to be nonterminal and not generate too many issues unless there is no trash and/or no shifting. Which in that case any half decent Junker would be too overcentralizing.

Island Folk: If you can play just 2 PPs reliably, you get an extra turn each round. It costs 5 favor not 4 favor right? so it take 3 plays of PP to get the 1st extra turn. Now given that players can pool favor on those extra turns PP could be quite overcentralizing. But still there are a few counters as Junker will slow down a low velocity card like PP a lot crippling there ability to loop there deck during the extra turn for much value or constancy. Mountain Folk has similar issues to Island Folk but as with both the ceiling of double turn much like ""Double Tactician"" decks. So good combo but more limit then first appears.

Crafter's Guild: PP becomes a Village Workshop (though limited to 1 gain per turn, still extremely powerful). I agree powerful but oddly limited as players pooling many tons of favor due to PP having +2 favor vs +1 would fall off. Architects' Guild seems to me to be the bigger gain focused break case as it can combo into its self to spend 4 or 6 favor in a turn.

League of Bankers seems to be the biggest break case as there is no ceiling for favor in a very direct +$ way. I have tried many game to break League of Bankers and have come up short more often then not, so having a custom card break that would be fun to me.

Peaceful Cult jumped out to be but official dominion puts strong trash at $2 pretty often and PP combining with it is quite comparable Rat Catcher a strong card but has awkward moments as that last curse is just never in the opening hand.

After looking at all the official Allies again I noticed a trend that the biggest powerful combos or break cases for PP were gains, +$, or +Cards which is the biggest downside PP has as it lack them. But the ratio of Allies that do that vs total allies is 7/23 so ~30% .Many of the other allies seem to be focused on providing extra +Buys, +Actions, or Shifting which are much less useful for PP. As breaking the cardis turning PP into a constant payoff source vs the decent enabler that I want it to be.

oh lastly comparison to Bauble is fair but doubling the favor output but losing the +$1 is big. As early PPs will very much cripple players ability to hit $5 on the early turns. Also being an action the generates +action vs Treasure is relevant often as most of us are aware, using our last action on a terminal draw hoping for treasure and getting villages. The timing is very different some allies don't care at all when the liaison is played some care a lot when the liaison is played.
I am just gonna comment on Plateau Shepherd. Dude, that is beyond crazy! You got 2VPs and then some (there is always Estates and perhaps some other $2) which could easily converge towards the VPs of a Duchy. A Duchy for $2 that is also a Necro with Buys.

You are absolutely correct in pointing out that a Necro with 2 Buys is weak, you’d rather have Villa or Festival and even those splitters have their issues as they don’t draw.
But trivializing stuff trashing, junking, drawing or extra turns is not gonna fix a totally broken card.

It might be OK with 1 Favour but even that seems dubious as the card still does 3 jobs then. Squire is also a flexible weak Village but at least you gotta play it terminally for the Buys, it is choose and not get everything.

213
This is interesting, but how do you envision tracking the cost of each one? Do i use a grease pencil on each card as i buy them? And erase after each game?


Quote
New Town
$1* Action

+1 Action per $1 this costs.
----
This costs $1 more per Action card in play (anywhere).

How many Actions will you need? It pays to plan ahead.
New Towns are also great trash-for-benefit fodder, if you can gain them at the right time.
Huh? You simply count the Actions in play.

214
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Revised versions of published cards
« on: April 30, 2023, 05:35:30 pm »
Is the Buy removal intentional? I hope not because this is a pretty serious nerf; that Buy is far stronger than an extra card.

215

216
Village Well/Lucky Copper looks cool but I don't think it would play well. Both cards are super luck dependent, especially the heirloom. If you draw it on T1, you probably have to name copper, then getting it right means +1$ and your next 4 cards all miss the shuffle, so you get to play whatever you bought super fast (and that may be a 5$). If one person gets this and the other reveals an estate,  the game is almost over.
We know from Doctor that shuffling after T1 is not as great as it first seems. Actually, more often than not, it outright sucks.

217
 
So ive like to make Fan cards and submit them to the Weekly design competition in the past, but ive struggled with feeling that my cards art bad, and that people dont like them being submitted(which im 99% sure is false, as people at most simply dont like the design and just ignore it. but my mind isnt fully rational).

I have no problems with low scores and not winning, but its been a negative loop when i come up with an idea, but feel like it will be bad anyway, and thus dont put more effort into it, and its worse than it could be.

Does anyone have encouraging words or tips?
I think that the quality here is pretty high. Designs are rarely unbalanced and it is more a guess or hunch about subtle power level issues than „dude, this Lab variant for $4 is too good“.

Then there is stuff like, is a card interesting to play with. That is much harder than to design something that works technically and power level wise and here feedback is, at least to me, most helpful. In your head it was a sweet idea, once other folks looked over it you realize that it is not that special or outright bad. I try to not let that discourage me but continue to come with ideas. Even if only one in ten is interesting, the other nine were nonetheless fun to design and you learned something on the road.

And, last but not least, card design is always subjective. For example I had once won a contest with a quick unrefined idea that I did not really like and that accidentally had some cool interactions. That is cool but to me it is more satisfying to put more effort into something that is then shred to pieces.

218
Slow Trade is crazy: Triple Peddler and keep junk temporarily out of your deck.

219
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 63: Sweet Dreams
« on: April 20, 2023, 01:39:41 pm »
The Secret Histories tell us that trashing a version of Hovel was the correct choice even with 4 Coppers. So here there exists the danger of a simple „buy no stuff, trash 2 Estates“ opening.

220
Strong at 5$, I think. Definitely not 4$.
Mine and variants like Taxman or Planter are slow and weak. Mine could be non-terminal or cost $4 and it would probably still suck.
Planter is, as I pointed out above, similar to one of the weakest $4s in the game.

221
So this is Taxman without the Attack but with some terminal sifting and drawing. The second turn effect is probably on average stronger than the Forum effect of Sea Witch. Even taking into account how strong Sea Witch and its sifting in junking games is relative to ordinary Witch, being a Duration is a serious drawback.

So a simply analysis would be: better than Taxman due to the sifting, worse than Taxman due to the Duration, similar to Taxman as the handsize Attack and the Duration draw roughly balance each other out.

So we look at a $4 (even if this is slightly better than Taxman, Taxman is nothing to write home about as Mine variants cannot be powerhouses).The on-gain effect is nice but you basically gotta overpay for this for it to matter.

222
Alright so I keep looking at what I submitted before and it doesn't really do what I wanted it to. So here's my revised submission, for better or worse:

Rainmaker still builds up the clouds by pseudo-trashing. I did like the limit on the old one, but I don't like the sound of "Discard up to 3 Rain from Exile" which would be the equivalent here. Anyways it gains a Rain in addition to the Exiled one, if you Exile like a Silver or a Duchy, which opens the floodgates and you can have a nice storm to bless your crops.

Notes: Rain costs $2 so that you can't just Exile it with Rainmaker to get extra Rain.
Rainmaker says "Exile a Rain" because I can't say "from the Supply" if it's not in the Supply, and "from the non-Supply" sounds stupid to me.
Rain ended up pretty similar to Figurehead but that wasn't the goal. At first it was a Treasure that gave +2 Cards, but that was basically a slightly worse Horse. This had more of the feel I was going for: it stacks up for simultaneous effect, rather than playing and returning in a chain like Horses/Spoils.

It has an accountability problem.  How can I prove that I don't have a Rain in hand?
It does not care whether I actually Exiled a Rain.  Is it intended?
The Rain is not Exiled from hand.

223
My Submission:




Quote
Maypole • $4 • Action - Treasure
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Choose one:
play a revealed Action card; or +1 Buy and
put a revealed Treasure card into your hand. Put
the rest back on top in any order.
I think this would probably be fine at $3. Vanilla-wise it is cantrip, Village or Market Square but unlike Sage it does not sift.

224


This is obviously mainly good in the late game in a draw engine. With enough draw power you might even be able to use two copies. Can also work a a middle-game support card for alt+VP decks. Due to the gathering mechanic there are potentially feedback mechanisms, i.e. A goes for Farmers so B will have to contest it and thus has an incentive to perhaps thin less or green earlier than he would otherwise.


It features a theoretical possibility for stalemates as the card does nothing to progress the game. But I think that is fairly theoretical and due to the gathering mechanic you have an incentive to eventually blow up all copies (but one, you might want to keep one as deterrent lest the other player amasses VPs with the last remaining copy) so the stalemate will eventually be broken

225
Looks too good. If you play them consistently they are half of Lab + Village which is obviously too good at $3. And this just looks at the cantrip and ignores the extra options and flexibility.

I disagree. The pure Lost City effect here costs $6 and 2 buys, which I think is a reasonable price. In this case, since you need to wait to draw the second card to get the Lost City effect, you expect to get that later in your turn which means decreased reliability compared to OG Lost City. And the other combinations aren´t that strong either, they definitely don´t warrant costing $4.
Think about Herald, a very strong card that is often rushed for. Think about how often those Heralds actually hit on average. Then compare this to your card which is guaranteed to „hit“ ever second time.

Another benchmark is Sea Chart. I am quite happy if they hit every second or third time.

About your notion that the other options are not that strong, yes, we only looked at what is best on average. But if one card can function as a Village, Lab and Market, i.e. as mono-engine card, that matters a lot. Many engines with terminal Buy sources can dud and if you have nonterminal sources you gotta pay a price (opportunity cost) if you overbuild on Markets or Market Squares to increase consistency.
Here you got all in one card.

So yeah, we are looking at a strong $4.

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