26
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Simultaneity
« on: March 12, 2012, 03:53:56 pm »
Tournament?
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27
Council Room Feedback / Re: Wot, no Megaturn?
« on: March 09, 2012, 12:02:10 pm »
True enough. And, the Silvers are fodder for Governor-remodeling into more Governors.
28
Council Room Feedback / Re: Wot, no Megaturn?
« on: March 08, 2012, 04:29:03 pm »Not to turn this into a Game Reports thread or anything, but I can't help but think that opening Silver / Silver is better for the kind of megaturn that you were looking for.
I don't know if I had a well-defined plan at the start of the game. I think I was going for cantrips to keep my effective deck size small, then bootstrapping up to Governors and then King's Courts. The early Remodel helps keep my deck flowing pretty nicely. But, I think I did get my economy off to a slow start.
It'd be interesting to try playing this board a few times to see if Remodel/Silver beats Silver/Silver.
29
Dominion General Discussion / Re: A real wtf moment.
« on: March 08, 2012, 09:19:45 am »My favorite example of this:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120215-091334-e85fae18.html#GewoonD-show-turn-10
My opponent plays a Governor for remodeling, and I gain an Inn on his turn with an empty deck, shuffling 6 Actions from the discard pile.
I did this recently. And immediately after, my opponent played a Fortune Teller; discarding all my carefully stacked cards.
Ouch!!
31
Dominion General Discussion / Re: A real wtf moment.
« on: March 08, 2012, 08:57:14 am »In general, a player does not benefit during someone else's turn. It can happen, though.
My favorite example of this:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120215-091334-e85fae18.html#GewoonD-show-turn-10
My opponent plays a Governor for remodeling, and I gain an Inn on his turn with an empty deck, shuffling 6 Actions from the discard pile.
The game was also notable for ridiculous Governor/Margrave shenanigans. I happily gave him card after card... only to take them all away with a Margrave at the end. At first I wondered what was taking him so long when I played a Margrave. Then I realized how big his hand was -- he discarded 10 cards twice, and 9 cards one other time!
The punchline? He was the one who got the "Bully" goal.
32
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: would you pay $6 for this card?
« on: March 07, 2012, 04:36:15 pm »On the other hand, at a cost of $6 this card competes with Gold, whereas Lab is frequently a great pickup in those hands that fall just short of $6. And if you end up using this card as a village very often, then boy was that an expensive village.
True, but unlike every other village, you would never use this as a village unless you had two terminals to play(*). So, an expensive village, but an exceptionally useful one.
(*) (Modulo some reshuffle control, of course.)
33
Council Room Feedback / Wot, no Megaturn?
« on: March 07, 2012, 03:32:11 pm »
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120302-083352-7d32e416.html
Turn 15, I gain all 8 starting Provinces. Did I miss Megaturn because Colonies were available? Or because I didn't "buy" the Provinces?
Turn 15, I gain all 8 starting Provinces. Did I miss Megaturn because Colonies were available? Or because I didn't "buy" the Provinces?
34
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: would you pay $6 for this card?
« on: March 07, 2012, 03:28:10 pm »
I like it! Could be very fun with King's Court: maybe the best non-terminal drawer?
35
Dominion Articles / Re: Goons
« on: March 06, 2012, 09:12:44 am »What about for a classic Goons Engine deck? I presume thats harder to simulate, as you need to be able to react and create the 3 pile ending when you're ahead. But I've always played that I don't buy copper till I think the game is going to end on this turn or the next. Is this sensible?
It's not quite that simple- if you've got lots of draw and trash you can often handle some coppers that'll just get discarded to your opponents' Goons anyway- but you're definitely on the right track. In practice, most players seem to dilute their Goons engines with copper and green far too soon, and my reluctance to do that is (I suspect) the major reason Goons is one of my best cards. I hesitate to give more detailed advice than that, because obviously it depends, but as a general rule of thumb you should be willing to forego more of your extra buys than you'd expect, in the engine-building stage at least.
I'm a much more mediocre player, but I've noticed the same thing. Whenever I see somebody buying Coppers on an early Goons turn, it always makes me glad.
36
Dominion Articles / Re: When to Venture
« on: March 05, 2012, 02:09:34 pm »When to Venture
A single Venture is strictly better than Silver in a pure money deck since you are guaranteed to hit $2 with every play (the $1 from Venture and Venture will find at least a Copper) and can be worth as much as $4 (assuming no Platinum of course).
Apart from a few marginal cases, anyway. Horn of Plenty is a Treasure card worth $0, so Venture could in principle only be worth $1. Also, it could find Philosopher's Stone with less than 5 cards between Deck and Discard Pile. Or heck, it could find a Potion.
37
Game Reports / Re: When to ignore Sea Hag (?)
« on: March 05, 2012, 06:17:36 am »Finally: why didn't this earn PileDriver for curses? I had all 10, and I won. Other cards give PileDriver even if you trash them later on, right?
Maybe it only counts it if you actually buy them, rather than have them given to you.
I've seen it awarded on Embargo boards. Maybe they don't want given-out curses to count because there'd be too many PileDrivers? Then again, you already don't get PileDriver unless you win.
38
Council Room Feedback / Re: New Councilroom feature: goal page and some new goals
« on: March 03, 2012, 08:16:04 am »
Should this be a MegaTurn?
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120302-083352-7d32e416.html
I checked the Goals page:
http://councilroom.com/goals
It says "bought" all Provinces in a single turn, whereas I Governor-Remodel'ed to get most of them. Is that why I miss out?
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120302-083352-7d32e416.html
I checked the Goals page:
http://councilroom.com/goals
It says "bought" all Provinces in a single turn, whereas I Governor-Remodel'ed to get most of them. Is that why I miss out?
39
Game Reports / When to ignore Sea Hag (?)
« on: March 02, 2012, 06:13:50 am »
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120301-131714-add74c9c.html
cards in supply: Apothecary, Bank, Council Room, Hamlet, Highway, Lookout, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Sea Hag, Wharf, and Woodcutter
So, I see Lookout on the board, and I remember it's a great Sea Hag counter. And then I see Apothecary, and I think... screw it, I'm doing something different here! Opponent opens Lookout, I open Potion, and then she buys a Sea Hag as I get my Lookout.
Turn 3 is textbook: she plays Sea Hag, I play Lookout. Then I start getting Apothecary and Wharf, with some Hamlets thrown in, continuing to deal with the curses pretty well. (Apothecary + Lookout is a nice combo too! Unfortunately, I discover Wharf + Lookout is a bit of a nombo; it draws the top-decked curses into my hand at the start of my turn).
Things start picking up around Turn 10: I buy 2 Highways, 2 Hamlets, and another Apothecary. Now I'm starting to get an engine which laughs at Sea Hags, despite the fact my opponent bought a second Hag the turn before. Turn 13, I buy 2 Highways and 2 Wharves. Nice!
With Hamlets, I haven't been discarding for Buys, due to the Wharf. Soon though, I realize all those Highways give me plenty of purchasing power, so I'd better have the Buys for it! I end it on Turn 15 by buying 3 Provinces and 6 free cards: 2 Duchies, 2 Hamlets, and yes, 2 Curses. That empties the latter two piles to end the game.
It's always very satisfying to ignore a power attack and win (and also to win by emptying Curses). 4 Provinces in 15 turns is respectable, especially vs. Cursing attacks. In this case, I think my opponent may have erred by never buying a single Wharf. Maybe the Sea Hags were hurting her early purchasing power, and also using up her terminal actions?
Finally: why didn't this earn PileDriver for curses? I had all 10, and I won. Other cards give PileDriver even if you trash them later on, right?
cards in supply: Apothecary, Bank, Council Room, Hamlet, Highway, Lookout, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Sea Hag, Wharf, and Woodcutter
So, I see Lookout on the board, and I remember it's a great Sea Hag counter. And then I see Apothecary, and I think... screw it, I'm doing something different here! Opponent opens Lookout, I open Potion, and then she buys a Sea Hag as I get my Lookout.
Turn 3 is textbook: she plays Sea Hag, I play Lookout. Then I start getting Apothecary and Wharf, with some Hamlets thrown in, continuing to deal with the curses pretty well. (Apothecary + Lookout is a nice combo too! Unfortunately, I discover Wharf + Lookout is a bit of a nombo; it draws the top-decked curses into my hand at the start of my turn).
Things start picking up around Turn 10: I buy 2 Highways, 2 Hamlets, and another Apothecary. Now I'm starting to get an engine which laughs at Sea Hags, despite the fact my opponent bought a second Hag the turn before. Turn 13, I buy 2 Highways and 2 Wharves. Nice!
With Hamlets, I haven't been discarding for Buys, due to the Wharf. Soon though, I realize all those Highways give me plenty of purchasing power, so I'd better have the Buys for it! I end it on Turn 15 by buying 3 Provinces and 6 free cards: 2 Duchies, 2 Hamlets, and yes, 2 Curses. That empties the latter two piles to end the game.
It's always very satisfying to ignore a power attack and win (and also to win by emptying Curses). 4 Provinces in 15 turns is respectable, especially vs. Cursing attacks. In this case, I think my opponent may have erred by never buying a single Wharf. Maybe the Sea Hags were hurting her early purchasing power, and also using up her terminal actions?
Finally: why didn't this earn PileDriver for curses? I had all 10, and I won. Other cards give PileDriver even if you trash them later on, right?
40
Dominion Articles / Re: A Primer on Luck
« on: February 28, 2012, 09:46:51 am »
+1 for emphasizing human cognitive biases.
41
Rules Questions / Re: Trader and gaining multiple cards at once
« on: February 23, 2012, 10:16:43 pm »So say there's 1 Curse left in the pile, and you buy an Estate, which has 2 Embargo tokens on it. You have Trader in hand. Can you gain 2 Silvers?Yes. There are two things happening to the same player, so the player whose turn it is orders them. They are the same thing so whatever. Each one resolves with you picking to take Silver instead of Curse; you gain two Silvers.
Cache is not actually different. Even though Cache tells you to gain two Coppers, you can't gain two Coppers simultaneously; one has to get gained first, because things can happen when cards are gained that have to be ordered, and in any case they go to your discard pile in some order. So you can buy Cache with only one Copper in the supply and reveal Trader twice to get two Silvers.
Did this today, in fact, in an IRL game.
42
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Help for Beginners
« on: February 22, 2012, 04:26:42 pm »I'd probably recommend using a mixture of random and fixed. To explore basic concepts, pick a card and make sure it gets at least one friend in the random bunch. So say, "this game is going to be a Gardens game, but we're going to reroll unless there's a +buy that doesn't trash".
"This game is going to explore goons engines, so we're rerolling until we get goons and a village."
If anyone has an Android device, check out the Dominion Shuffle app. It lets you stipulate all kinds of conditions like that, so you don't have to re-roll. For instance, you can require Goons, require at least one card that gives at least +2 actions, and just shuffle once.
I'd recommend it even if you don't have specific requirements. It's the best option for randomizing when you have multiple expansions. It's even better than dominiondeck.com, because it picks the Bane card with Young Witch, and chooses whether you'll play with Colony in a Prosperity game.
43
Dominion General Discussion / Re: When do you take the curse in torturer games?
« on: February 22, 2012, 04:21:37 pm »
When should you take the curse? When you've built a robust lead and it will empty the third pile.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1592.msg25376#msg25376
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1592.msg25376#msg25376
44
Game Reports / Re: All 5 prizes + a Duchy in a single turn w/o King's Court!
« on: February 19, 2012, 08:11:19 pm »
That was Destry, not tlloyd, and he got the goal.
Did you post the wrong link?
Did you post the wrong link?
45
Game Reports / Re: All 5 prizes + a Duchy in a single turn w/o King's Court!
« on: February 17, 2012, 02:45:58 pm »Nice. I once gained all 5 prizes in a single turn with a single Province (the turn immediately after buying that Province)!
Was it an offline game? I don't see you as having the ChampionPrizeFighter goal.
46
Council Room Feedback / Re: New councilroom feature: historical level/#games graphs
« on: February 17, 2012, 09:25:32 am »How would that not add any more information?The level is the mean skill minus three times the standard deviation. The upper bound would be the mean plus three times the standard deviation. If the figure would show both the mean and the level (=the lower bound) we would already know both the mean and the standard deviation, and hence could infer the upper bound. Drawing it separately would hence not add information as such.
Ah, I misread you originally. I thought you meant plotting the mean would not show any more information.
47
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Official(?) Dominion App Available on iTunes
« on: February 15, 2012, 12:51:34 pm »I love isotropic, but my biggest gripe is that the logs don't let you fully reconstruct the game. (You play a Smithy and draw three cards -- which three cards?!)
It clearly isn't an issue of preventing the opponent from seeing private information: already, the game logs show e.g. what each player draws at the end of their turn.
Full game reconstruction is a minimum standard I think we should ask of the logs. I've been waiting for the official app and assuming it will offer this feature. If not, I think we should keep bugging them until they put it in.
Another thing I just remembered: for logs with Masquerade on the board, it doesn't tell you what cards were passed. This means that it's generally impossible even to know the deck composition as a function of turn.
Usually cards enter the deck by "gaining", and leave it by "trashing". I think Isotropic does well tracking both of those in every case. But "passing" is an added mechanism whereby cards both enter and leave the deck, and Isotropic doesn't remember what gets passed.
I think "Deck composition as a function of turn" is potentially a very good visualization of a game. I really hope the official app makes it possible for all games. And if not, it's worth lobbying for!
48
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Official(?) Dominion App Available on iTunes
« on: February 14, 2012, 01:02:32 pm »CouncilRoom will be hugely affected, naturally, by the kind of logs outputted. It could be better than Isotropic, and it could also be worse.
I love isotropic, but my biggest gripe is that the logs don't let you fully reconstruct the game. (You play a Smithy and draw three cards -- which three cards?!)
It clearly isn't an issue of preventing the opponent from seeing private information: already, the game logs show e.g. what each player draws at the end of their turn.
Full game reconstruction is a minimum standard I think we should ask of the logs. I've been waiting for the official app and assuming it will offer this feature. If not, I think we should keep bugging them until they put it in.
49
General Discussion / Re: Math Nerds...
« on: February 14, 2012, 12:49:58 pm »Aaaargh, QWERTY, don't even get me started on that one. I hate not having learnt Dvorak when I first started using a computer. As a software developer, I type quite a lot and I'm sure Dvorak instead of Qwerty would lead to faster development time and less errors, but where do I find the time to switch over?
I switched to Dvorak for a year or so when starting grad school. It wasn't that hard, though the first 2 weeks or so were quite frustrating! It was very comfortable, but what brought me back was the Vim text editor. I used a hybrid layout for a while, but I just found it easier to cave and use Qwerty.
What I really wish is that Dvorak had taken over before Vim was invented.
50
Council Room Feedback / Re: New councilroom feature: historical level/#games graphs
« on: February 14, 2012, 09:13:38 am »I really like the graphs -- now I can stop tracking my own trend manually.
I had been doing that too, until I found the archive.
Do you think the Leaderboard history curve would look too messy if it included also the mean TrueSkill rating in addition to the lower bound (=level)? Ideally I would want to see also the upper bound for the skill as I would find it more visually pleasing to see a curve with associated credibility intervals, but that would obviously not add any more information. The mean, however, would tell something that is not apparently visible in the level.
How would that not add any more information?
Anyway, I had been planning to do a detailed statistical analysis of the historical logs. Still would like to, but having these graphs available takes off the urgency, and I'm inclined to focus my mental efforts on actual work for the time being.