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6826
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 01, 2019, 12:34:53 pm »
Has anyone commented on my case on shraeye in #558? Looking back, it's a bit weak, but I don't recall ANYONE even mentioning it.

@Debatepro, I suggest you read the post I mentioned above if you want to get "woke", or at least if you want to laugh at a scum attempting to make a case on town, whichever you think is more likely.

If I missed some mentions of it, I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong.

6827
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 01, 2019, 11:58:30 am »
also talks about how there are reasonable cases on him. if he's town, he knows any case on him is not reasonable because it is untrue. if he's scum, he should be trying to convince people that those cases are unreasonable. This is just weird. doesn't really affect my read.

Not everything people say is wrong: just because the conclusion is obviously wrong, doesn't mean the reasoning isn't towny - and sometimes correct, like Uncle's first case. I don't think calling the cases against me "unreasonable" helps the town effort at all: I can dismantle them, but disregarding them is scummy; as you said scum wants to completely destroy the cases, whereas town simply wants to point out the inconsistencies (the consistencies can stay).

Voting for me? I can't blame you.

L-2 already? Next time say it, but you said you're busy so fair.

6828
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 01, 2019, 11:50:12 am »
probably not much.  at this point i've almost tunneled down to the earth's core!! can't stop now, gotta get those achievements.

I feel the same way. Perhaps, in a way, we are the same. How unfortunate that we are on opposite sides.

...and how I'm the one that has a wagon. Oh well, at this point I've accepted my fate.

@ari, good, I like your D1 performance, now can you vote mail-mi?  :P

6829
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 01, 2019, 11:39:25 am »
MiX MiX, he's our man! If we can't lynch him, then scum will win!

False.

What can I do to prove my innocence?

@ari, I like that list, but mail-mi's missing; yes, it wasn't part of my original question, but still.

@mail-mi, at this point it's either me or you. Apologies if you're town, but I can't die today.

6830
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 01, 2019, 10:59:50 am »
1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.
You do know you're not in a QT with faust: everything you say will be heard by "town".
With that comment, I was trying to remind everyone that I don't think i'm dealing with town in these arguments. I immediately give the rest of my reasoning in 2.

Do you think we forgot? Because I know you forgot about something:

You also never answered this:

Thoughts on LaLight DatSwan raerae shraeye EFHW in no particular order?

This was so you would reread and get a better sense of your scumreads, but now that's not important, instead look at DatSwan raerae mail-mi.

Please do the above, we don't have much time.

6831
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 01, 2019, 10:49:36 am »
I'm perplexed by the instant acceptance LaLight's claim has gotten. When faust and DatSwan were masons, they were suspected for Days. True, it was mostly scum trying to spin the mason fakeclaim story, but I don't think I've ever seen faust assign the IC label so easily.

I'm instantly accepting LaLight's claim BECAUSE of that game. Scum are either very ballsy and want to create history by bluffing the mason claim, or there's no reason to not trust LaLight.

Besides, it's better to wait for D2 to wonder about that.

1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.

You do know you're not in a QT with faust: everything you say will be heard by "town".

I think the universe might collapse because I agree with MiX about this [singular] point and I'm not changing my vote [yet]. I just checked she never voted for LaLight or seems like even waved the FoS. Please explain [@faust] with references as those seem to be lacking, in general???
That is not what I am saying though. I say that

- there is scum on LaLight iff one of raerae/MiX is scum
- the people on LaLight are kind of scummy
- thus, likely, there is scum on LaLight, which implies by the first point that one of raerae/MiX is scum.

I'm going to rephrase what you say in some if/then logic:
1. If raerae or MiX are scum, then someone who is scum is on LaLight.
2. People on LaLight are scummy
3. Because scum are likely on LaLight, vote RaeRae.

Makes absolutely no sense to me. However, I'm a newb so... if your logic holds then Vote: MiX


Although this is horribly incorrect (as is faust's logic, really), this is exactly what I expected from you: I am scummier than raerae because I was one of the "scummy" people on his wagon, right? Also, weren't you voting for me already?

6832
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 01, 2019, 07:25:20 am »
Having reread DatSwan and mail-mi, I don't think DatSwan's scummy anymore; just somewhat null.

I also have a hunch that he's the mason, so vote: mail-mi, you haven't done anything this game other than (re)read and vote, such low effort usually comes from scum, maybe all wagons were on town and you feel like you have nothing to do. In fact, looking at them now, I don't think anyone's scum...

I would still like a shraeye lynch! But...I'll wait for D2 for that, I suppose.

6833
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 01, 2019, 05:54:58 am »
vote: DatSwan, because Mason claim

LaLight, the question was in #625, but now it's not important...

@shraeye, you also never answered this...

Who else do you have a scumread on? (Or as you would put it, who's a scumbuddy with me?)

@ari, just because me and faust think defensiveness is not good when you did it, doesn't mean we're scum...remember, there's a thing called playstyle, and that varies between people. For example, you are clearly more defensive than others, so I can't treat that as being scummy.

You also never answered this:

Thoughts on LaLight DatSwan raerae shraeye EFHW in no particular order?

This was so you would reread and get a better sense of your scumreads, but now that's not important, instead look at DatSwan raerae mail-mi.

Well looking at wagons.

LaLight was never based on much of anything. We do have prefectly fine wagons on MiX and raerae. So... if those are both town, then I don't see the need for scum to hop on LaLight. But... looking at the LaLight wagon, those folks on there aren't exactly a very townie bunch. I think the chance of scum being there is pretty decent. Which in turn is a point in favor of one of MiX/raerae being scum.

Vote: raerae

Hmm...raerae was never on LaLight's wagon.

@ss, why mail-mi?

Now that LaLight's out of the picture (and no one changed their mind about shraeye) I'll reread DatSwan and mail-mi; in the meantime, anyone wanna make a case on one of them?

6834
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 08:03:54 pm »
Voting without reason.

I want LaLight's answer to my question before I can solidify my case.

Why are you voting for ari? That's useless now.

6835
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 07:41:25 pm »
Mix is voting for LaLight for not contributing.

Wait a minute...when did I say this? Where did you get this from? Are you coming up with things on the fly now?

Unless I have the worst memory, I haven't actually stated why I'm voting for LaLight...

That seems to be going around a lot lately.

What has been going around? Me saying something shraeye did is scummy? People saying other things come from nowhere? Votes being unexplained? People finding reasons for votes that have no given explanation? Ambiguous post.

6836
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 07:33:37 pm »
Mix is voting for LaLight for not contributing.

Wait a minute...when did I say this? Where did you get this from? Are you coming up with things on the fly now?

Unless I have the worst memory, I haven't actually stated why I'm voting for LaLight...

6837
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 07:28:50 pm »
Vote: MiX

Really? I thought the other vote was a joke...why would scum care about pushing a wagon? They push themselves anyway. Especially at this stage of the day.

And if I were truly scum, how easy would it be for me to jump at your wagon? Ah, dammit, you can say I tried with that case...

Not sure what else to say here...the newbies are STILL on me, I forgot why at this poiint.

If anyone wants to ask me questions to accert their scumreads on me, feel free to do so, I have nothing to defend against at this point.

PPE: mail-mi has less time, it's not exactly fair to compare the two. I have to admit I didn't reread mail-mi, will do so.

6838
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 07:23:06 pm »
I'm a little concerned by the fact that we are about 23 hours away from the deadline and still don't have a clear lynch. I'm keeping my vote on mix but I will switch to the biggest wagon at the last second if it would prevent a no-lynch.
I think, "why are we moving so fast, we have plenty of time" disease got to us early on.  Of course here we are with very little time and a lot of arguing on our hands.  Did scum spread this disease? Did it just pop up? I don't know.

I believe dylan/mail-mi created this situation, where it was scummy to hammer beforre they said things, and now we have...this.

No lynching is pointless, I would sooner lynch one of my scumreads than nothing, despite how weak said scumread is. Lynching town is bad, but not having a chance to lynch scum is worse.

PPE

6839
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 07:01:33 pm »
how else will be move on?

how else will WE move on, typo.


I apologize in advance for the lack of effort I've been doing these last days...it's much harder to lynch than it is to vote and I'm having trouble finding out exactly what I need to do.

6840
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 06:57:55 pm »
I'm so frustrated by all the people not explaining votes. It's dumb play at best, scum at worst, and clearly you can't trust me because I'm so scummy for no reason anybody but faust seems to be able to point to.  MiX is too eager to jump to any wagon other than his that looks viable.

Vote: MiX

PPE MiX: I said what I said and I meant what I meant. Don't put words in my mouth.

Is this really how the day ends? Yes, of course I'm willing to jump anywhere, how else will be move on? My top scumread isn't getting any attention whatsoever, so I have to move on.

And yes, ari, but UoS already said...uh...they...are lenient with voting.

6841
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 06:51:10 pm »
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:

Vote:RaeRae

Based. On. What.

The. Last. Page. And. Half.

But what do you think is scummy? You're doing town zero favors by not explaining anything. If you're town and your the NK, what did you leave behind to help town?

A better way to word this is: if you think raerae's scummy, and you think she'll die today, what could you possibly gain from hiding anything at all?

6842
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 06:46:27 pm »
I'm a little concerned by the fact that we are about 23 hours away from the deadline and still don't have a clear lynch. I'm keeping my vote on mix but I will switch to the biggest wagon at the last second if it would prevent a no-lynch.

Thoughts on LaLight DatSwan raerae shraeye EFHW in no particular order?

6843
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 06:45:06 pm »
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:

Vote:RaeRae

Based. On. What.

The. Last. Page. And. Half.

What. Do. You. Think. Of. LaLight. And. Shraeye?

What changed your mind about raerae?

6844
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 06:02:09 pm »
Magic won't happen: vote: LaLight, shraeye won't die today.

For cases, I present EFHW's and...well, I want something before this:

@LaLight, why did you vote for me way back in #89?

6845
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 10:12:48 am »
Thank you for your answer faust, I definitly went too fast against raerae...there's just one thing I disagree: if you have 2 scumreads, you should vote for the one that has LESS votes; that way, you can start convincing town to vote for them, whereas the other person is easier to push...you should, of course, swap to the bigger wagon when deadline approaches, but that wasn't the case. This is a playstyle thing, however.

Actually what's making me decide raerae's town now is this...

Don't like how big the raerae wagon got, if she was scum she wouldn't leave shraeye's wagon since, as faust said, raerae's case on me implies shraeye's scummy, then there's WIFOM but still.

I was sane at the time; now I see why this is absolutely correct.

What do you think about shraeye? I don't remember hearing your thoughts on him...actually you said them in #476, do you stand by it?

6846
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 09:20:13 am »
I fear I can make these cases on everyone now...so please, destroy this and shraeye's case so I can improve as a player (or sheep if they're actually good  :P).
It does seem to me that you are having to imagine a lot of unproven things for your theory to work. It's easy to make up stories that feel right and startling when they turn out to not be true at all. .

Can you give examples of what things have to be true for my theories to work? I want these cases destroyed, not ignored.

6847
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 09:06:42 am »
I must say that I don’t agree with the raerae read. The only thing that makes me think all you people are onto something is her wagon summary post, which looked a bit too biased for my liking, but I think it probably comes more from a place of frustration than scumminess? I don’t know. I just trust her more, which may be misplaced trust... I would strongly prefer a different candidate for the death today.

I also think MiX’s tunnel on Shraeye is problematic. My reads on shraeye lean town as well, I think he disagrees with me a lot, but I still think he is coming from a town perspective. And I doubt MiX will be able to pull together a shraeye case strong enough to get a lynch today due to my understanding of our group advice of now.

So basically, if it ain’t the two of them then who is it? Because I am not on board with that theory at all.

Can you please say why shraeye and raerae are towny? Just saying that they are doesn't help me.

The others 2 lynches that I would consider are DatSwan and LaLight. mail-mi also exists in theory but he hasn't done anything scummy so I won't go there.


Also, I'll be here for the deadline.

6848
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 07:00:42 am »
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see a shraeye!raerae scum team...just look at their interactions:
Meh. I think their interactions stem more from the fact that they are a RL team than a scumteam.
raerae did announce her intention to be hard on Shraeye before role pms went out.

But she's not, all of that interaction seems...fake. Like they're trying to interact because pre-game they said they would. In reality, they're interacting with me, raerae in particular seems to USE shraeye to get a scumread on me. Eh, still don't like them.

6849
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 31, 2019, 06:46:17 am »
But also, since you really haven't had the time to do some sincere scumhunting and don't have strong reads, surely you wouldn't mind not voting today?

mail-mi not voting is one of the worst things he could do this day, a replacement's vote has a lot of value, he can read the game free of biases, thus getting a clearer vision on what happened; this obviously helps when scumhunting.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see a shraeye!raerae scum team...just look at their interactions:

- raerae asks for shraeye's reason for voting me, he doesn't give it, she's annoyed; this is so easily orchestrated by two scum wanting to look like they're interacting with each other, but really, why did raerae have to ask that? There's no way shraeye would simply answer, this was a waste of time.

- pushes for a shraeye!MiX scumteam, votes shraeye first then me; all the talk about shraeye's suspicious in itself: sure they know each other IRL but "he's dangerous as scum, exceedingly dangerous" is...excessive, then there's the "if shraeye flips scum MiX's next" which could very well be "if my scumpartner dies let's mislynch someone".

- keeps throwing shade on me while voting for shraeye (#191 is a great example of this); easily explainable if you see that she's preparing to jump on my wagon.

- more interaction between them that leads nowhere, now about shraeye's (new) case on me, admits he's right; a much better question to ask here would be "why did you pick 3 people to guess?" but that would make shraeye have to answer it; he eventually does, but not due to raerae.

- votes for me, the tipping point? My interaction with shraeye...which would at best point to a shraeye!MiX team. She points out more, but most of it is sheeping other's cases...although they're right, I don't like how she swapped BECAUSE of a slip that could only exist in shraeye!MiX, for me this was an excuse to ditch her vote on shraeye and start pushing my wagon. This is all in #329.

- tells faust shraeye's case depended on me being scum...then why did she vote for shraeye? Again, this feels like creating interaction out of thin air.

- says her case on me is (and I quote) "shows knowledge of shraeye's intent pre-game". And...? Did she forget everything else she said? At this point she's voting for me because...what, the only person on shraeye's wagon is me? I would totally take that opportunity of scum bussing each other and lynch...the most dangerous one (note how, in her PoV, we're both bussing); she already admited shraeye's more dangerous...my answer? She wants an active player out of the game and a player whose meta she knows in.

Much more interested in a shraeye lynch, but this is looking much better...again, I ask all of you to review this and point out any flaws. Unlike shraeye, I haven't read previous raerae games, but she seems more active than him, maybe this brings out her meta more? I fear I can make these cases on everyone now...so please, destroy this and shraeye's case so I can improve as a player (or sheep if they're actually good  :P).

6850
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M121: Philosophers Mafia Mafia (Day 1)
« on: January 30, 2019, 08:08:28 pm »
So for fun let's look at the two biggest wagons. 

looks at MiX and raerae's wagons

Don't forget about LaLight!


I should probably step in: I'm fine with a LaLight lynch, but I would much prefer a shraeye lynch...I've been rereading some of his games, what I've concluded thus far is that he's much more consistent as scum, whereas he jokes way more as town. Now, I've only read 3 games, but I think this is a decent pool for me to get a taste of his meta...I'd love to hear the opinions from anyone who has more information on shraeye's meta (especially raerae). This meta matches with scum!shraeye this game, in fact, I'm confident enough to make a case:

- His initial vote on me is classic scumhunting: obvious, low effort and pro-town, I see this as scummy, since he doesn't do much between this and saying the reason.

- When stating his reason on his first vote, he compounds this with my flailing, saying that I went back and forth on his case; then, when I defended it, he essencially disregarded it, using it to further his scumread: I believe no one would do this as town; yes, WIFOM states that scum wouldn't do it either, but shraeye has definitly commited to mislynch me, at worst he doesn't have to make a good case on someone else, at best he gets a free mislynch based on towny's cases on me.

- Throws a lot of shade on uncle, especially for "looking for scummy things" against EFHW; I think that was towny from Uncle, as I was doing the same, I never said anything because I hadn't found enough, but uncle clearly thought otherwise, EFHW was an unscrutinized player and needed some pressure.

- Gives a townread on raerae, which is a very safe play, as she said (he would be called out if he hadn't said it), and...I don't see any more scumreads. For me this signals he very clearly intends to mislynch me today and will figure out the rest as he goes along, which is fine, scum only needs 1 scumread per day.

All in all, what I would expect as scum, almost TOO perfectly. Everyone, please tell me all the confirmation bias I am in, I have to admit I've never done a case on scum before, not of this importance, usually all that was needed was "oh he's fakeclaiming, lynch"; I would love EVERYONE's opinion on this.


mail-mi, ewww on that raerae vote, no explanation at this stage of the day is bad, as raerae posted, no one has good cases on her, if she's scum you'll need to convince people to join her wagon man.

And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.

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