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51

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Can we get a play all supplies button?

« on: March 07, 2022, 06:01:17 pm »

Maybe Ingix would know if this is an issue, but I wonder if the fact that each Supplies gains a horse prevents an autoplay option from being possible--if you did autoplay supplies and there was something that was supposed to be triggered on when you gain something, then maybe the client would freeze up or crash. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but if there are any other autoplay options that involve multiple gains or buys, then presumably this wouldn't be an issue.

52

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Importer and Island Folk - when to take the extra turn?

« on: March 04, 2022, 03:33:14 pm »

So does none of the strategy behind Seize the Day factor into this, since Seize the Day costs you and a buy?

When you have Importer in the kingdom, not having to spend coins and a buy on the extra turn makes a huge difference in my opinion. The opportunity cost of seize the day early on is getting something else to help build your deck instead vs taking the extra turn later when 4 coins and a buy is not as much of your entire turn (e.g., this is why you don't buy Seize the Day on your first turn where you have 4 coins). On the other hand, there is no opportunity cost of Island Folk early when Importer is in the kingdom--you can't use the favors for anything else that game, and you're not spending your coins and a buy on it.

Now, if you don't have Importer, when should you pick up Liaisons to try to get favors for Island Folk, if at all? That's a pretty different consideration that isn't being discussed here.

Edit: a few words

53

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Importer and Island Folk - when to take the extra turn?

« on: March 04, 2022, 02:12:46 pm »

I would also think immediately would usually be best. I can think of a few times where you might want to wait, but I think you're still realistically more ahead in every case if you take the extra turn earlier:

• Tax
• If you want to take more of the bottom of a split pile, maybe you wait until it's uncovered (like Avanto)
• If you want to wait to see what your opponent does with their extra turn and try to counter it, wait until right after they use their extra turn
• Some scenario where you envision ending the game in two turns and don't want your opponent to be able to stop you

54

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies Preview 4: Recursion

« on: March 03, 2022, 07:55:31 am »

Am I missing something? I’m surprised nobody has commented on Lich’s below the line text wording. Shouldn’t it say “when you would trash this, discard it instead” or “when you trash this, put it in your discard pile” (I prefer this one—closer to Fortress wording) instead of “when you trash this, discard it”? I didn’t think you could “discard” anything from the trash to put into your discard pile—come to think of it, though, there’s no other card that tries to discard from the trash, so maybe this is something new that works differently (i.e., it has always been possible to discard from the trash, and it’s just never been done before).

Edit: added a few words

55

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: March 01, 2022, 03:22:01 pm »

If you have a watch tower in hand, Cache is a gold for 5$, which is often significantly worse than other things you could buy for 5$. It has to be a board where other 5$s are weak, and you have to have the watchtower in hand, and have exactly 5$, and then the cache is like pretty good.

There are some situations where cache is actually good which are being ignored. Cache is pretty great if you actually want the coppers. For instance on a fountain board with no buys and cache I played getting a single cache was a no brainer as it lets you hit 10 coppers while wasting less turns and the cheap gold is a bonus. There are situations where you have trashers but need things to trash in order to get their benefit. While cache is strictly a combo card and not likely to see much play it definitely has its niche.

Yeah, Cache is a pretty good combo card sometimes--it can be a bit finnicky to get if you need to trash cards, because you may need to draw cards in the right order, but it can be good there. I think the last few times I bought it, it was because of Keep, Guildhall, and/or Gardens. I don't know if I've seen it alongside Fountain or Triumph, but I think it could be good there, too.

56

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Allies

« on: December 09, 2021, 08:59:22 am »

Looks like Dutch website leaking some previews too early: https://www.999games.nl/dominion-bondgenoten-kaartspel.html

57

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Allies

« on: September 18, 2021, 10:38:40 pm »

400 cards and 31 kingdom piles. If they're all normal-sized non-Victory piles, that would account for 343 cards, leaving 57.  I'm guessing that Allies are some kind of non-supply card.  It could be a single kind of card, like Horses in Menagerie, but I'm gonna guess that there's different kinds of Allies, with probably 10 of each.  So, maybe 4 different kinds of Allies, leaving 17 cards for Events or some other landscape?  Of course, there could also be one or two Victory card piles, or a pile that has more than 10 cards like Port and Rats

My prediction for the rotating split piles: they're one-shot cards that work like Experiment or Horse where they return to their pile, except that instead of returning to the top of the pile, they return to the bottom.  So, they might start out like a normal split pile, 5 copies of card A on top of 5 copies of card B.  You buy a copy of card A, and now it's 4 of A on top of 5 of B, but then you play your copy of A, and it goes to the bottom of the pile, so now you have 4 of A on top of 5 of B on top of 1 of A, and so on. Or maybe it's more like Castles or Knights where each card is different, but probably not that, since it says piles, plural, and that would mean that there'd have to be at least 20 different cards

Hmm, that could be. I feel like the concept could be several things, so I'll make a few guesses, using encampment/plunder as the example cards:

1. It's like a split pile but the cards alternate--encampment, plunder, encampment, plunder, etc.
2. It's like a split pile but the 5 cards on the bottom all rotate to the top of the pile whenever something particular happens--maybe one of these: a player's turn ends, a player buys (or gains) a card from the split pile, or a player plays a card from the split pile. Note that the condition of rotating upon gaining a card from the split pile is basically the same as idea 1 above.
3. It's like Vampire/Bat but as a split pile--the last line of text on encampment would be that you exchange it for a plunder and vice versa
4. It's a normal pile but each card has two options, using upside down text for the second option so you have to rotate the card to read it--for each play of the card, you get to pick whether it's encampment or plunder

58

Rules Questions / Re: Timing of Donate and Mountain Pass changed

« on: September 10, 2021, 06:13:57 pm »

How did you find out about this, and where do these changes take place? Is there going to be a 2nd edition of Empires that has these changes and more, or are there changes to just these 2 cards? These changes are not yet active online.

In this post.
Donald posted the Seaside, Prosperity, and Hinterlands changes in October 2020, and then expanded the post with Adventures, Empires, Nocturne, Alchemy and Renaissance changes in July 2021.

Thanks, I do remember seeing that--I forgot these changes were part of that list.

59

Rules Questions / Re: Timing of Donate and Mountain Pass changed

« on: September 10, 2021, 01:26:52 pm »

How did you find out about this, and where do these changes take place? Is there going to be a 2nd edition of Empires that has these changes and more, or are there changes to just these 2 cards? These changes are not yet active online.

60

Rules Questions / Re: Sleigh gained to hand

« on: May 31, 2021, 04:01:50 pm »

Correct, if I gain a Sleigh to hand without having another Sleigh in hand, I can pick either option and it will discard sleigh once and do nothing else—no additional prompts.

61

Rules Questions / Re: Sleigh gained to hand

« on: May 31, 2021, 03:16:30 pm »

For the last one.. when you say as many times as you want, do you mean once for each Sleigh? Or is it actually putting a Sleigh into your hand more than once total? It definitely shouldn’t be possible to put a gained card into your hand once it has moved from its default gain location.

I mean it lets you do it infinitely. There’s either a bug or some confusing trigger timing. I think it’s doing this:

1. I have Sleigh A in hand and a gainer in hand.
2. I play my gainer to gain Sleigh B to my discard pile.
3. I can react Sleigh A to put Sleigh B in my hand.
4. I put Sleigh B in my hand and Sleigh A gets discarded.
5. Sleigh B now triggers and lets me put Sleigh A in hand.
6. I put Sleigh A in my hand and Sleigh B gets discarded.
7. Steps 3-6 keep repeating forever.

Step 5 is maybe the bugged step. I’m not sure if it’s counting discarding Sleigh A as gaining it and/or if it’s a delayed trigger and is triggering sleigh B on its own previous gain to the discard pile.

62

Rules Questions / Re: Sleigh gained to hand

« on: May 31, 2021, 11:17:18 am »

I'm not entirely sure if all the behavior is a bug or on purpose, but I still think it's strange how it seems to work. I tested all of these using workshop as the gainer.

If I gain something to the discard pile normally and have multiple sleighs in hand, it only lets me react with one sleigh, no matter which option I choose.

If I gain a sleigh to the discard pile normally and have 1+ sleighs in my hand, if I pick the topdeck option, it only lets me react with one sleigh.

If I gain a sleigh to the discard pile normally and have 1+ sleighs in my hand, if I pick the put in hand option, it lets me react repeatedly with sleigh as many times as I want. I assume this somehow has to do with the fact that the composition of my hand is changing each time and that a "new" sleigh is being placed in my hand in each step. I still think it's weird that this happens, given the other behaviors.

63

Rules Questions / Re: Sleigh gained to hand

« on: May 30, 2021, 02:13:52 pm »

If the other Sleigh stayed in your hand, did the client give the option to react again with the other one? It should have. You should be able to discard all Sleighs in your hand when you gain a card, even though only the first one would actually do its full ability.

I didn't think so--I just checked, and it doesn't give me the option to react again with the other one. It shows both "topdeck" and "put in hand" options with a "2" in the upper left corner of each option (so I think it's recognizing both sleighs)--no matter which option I pick, though, one sleigh gets discarded and nothing else happens. It doesn't react the second sleigh afterwards.

64

Rules Questions / Re: Sleigh gained to hand

« on: May 30, 2021, 05:08:44 am »

Oh yeah, you’re right about the nonstandard location and No Visiting portion. I think the reason is what you’re saying—the online client doesn’t let you choose which Sleigh to react with. In person, you would just say you’re reacting with the one you didn’t gain.

65

Rules Questions / Re: Sleigh gained to hand

« on: May 30, 2021, 12:45:45 am »

The wiki says:

If you gain a Sleigh to your hand (with e.g. Sculptor), and it's the only Sleigh in your hand, you cannot discard the Sleigh to put itself onto your deck.

Is this because of the stop-moving rule? Like, you gain the Sleigh, you discard the Sleigh by its reaction; it fails to move to your deck because it's already moved to your discard pile? Or can you not discard it at all? If not, why?

Yeah I can't see any possible reason that you can't still use the reaction and at least discard Sleigh. By the rules, when you discard a Sleigh after gaining a Sleigh, it is impossible to know if the Sleigh you discarded was the same one or not. So it must be the first one; you can discard it but it will fail to go onto your deck. This makes sense with stop-moving; the effect is expecting the card to be wherever it was gained to, but it has moved from there so the effect cannot move it.

By contrast, if you gain a Watchtower to hand, then you definitely should be able to reveal that same Watchtower to topdeck or trash it, because Watchtower's reaction doesn't require you to move it.

I think these are both correct--I just tested online and do see both of these behaviors.

Also, the online version does something else (may be a bug, but I think it makes sense according to the stop-moving rule)--I also tested using Sculptor to gain a Sleigh when I already had a Sleigh in hand. It didn't let me discard one Sleigh to topdeck the other Sleigh. It just discarded one Sleigh, and the other Sleigh stayed in my hand. I think this may be the stop-moving rule again--it's expecting to find the gained Sleigh in the discard pile and then topdeck that one, but because the Sleigh goes to hand when using Sculptor, the Sleigh you discard doesn't find the other Sleigh in the expected place.

66

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Tactician + Village Green

« on: May 23, 2021, 06:33:59 pm »

This one's probably more well known but Way of The Mole + VG works for +6 cards, just Mole anything and then Mole the first VG (but not any other) you discard

how does this get you six cards?  i am confused.  Wouldn't you just get +1 additional card if you discarded a moled vg?

You discard your entire hand.  That includes a VG.  You play the VG for way of the Mole, get +3 cards.  Then, you get the +3 cards for the first Mole

Oh, interesting, I didn't realize this would work like that, but I just tested it online and it does. Am I right that the sequence goes like this:

1. Play something as Way of the Mole.
2. +1 Action, Discard your hand.
3. Village Green gets discarded and gets played before the "+3 cards" of the previous Mole.
4. Choose to play Village Green as Way of the Mole.
5. +1 Action, Discard your hand (0 cards). +3 cards.
6. Draw the +3 cards from the remainder of the Way of the Mole in step 2. You now have 6 cards.

67

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.

« on: May 19, 2021, 10:19:02 pm »

The first player have a 59% chance of winning the game (maybe by one more turn).
At the end of the game, some player finish the turn (variant) instead of the real rule. But I don't think it's a good idea ...

1) What do you think of the first player advantage?
2) What are the positive points of this imbalance ? Why is it better to end the game immediately with the first player rather than end the second player's turn? (better gameplay ?)
3) Ten years after the creation of the game, do players prefer the variant? Or are the players happy with the real rule?

Thank you ! 

These questions get brought up a lot in the forums and Reddit, so I'll share my opinion and some ideas I've seen.

1) It's a real advantage, but you still have to capitalize with skill on using your advantage. There are many random aspects of Dominion, and you could make up a variant for each one, but I wouldn't suggest that...the opening random split of 5/2 or 3/4 is often very important, the cards in your turn 3 and 4 hand are random and very important, etc. It's about knowing what risks to take and how to play optimally given what happens--sometimes it doesn't work out, and that's okay. If you want to take all the luck out of Dominion, play a different game--I always recommend Prismata.

2) There really isn't a way to make the end of the game longer to fix the number of turns imbalance work out in a way that doesn't heavily warp the end of the game (player 1 cannot pile out if player 2 can go afterwards, etc.). The best variant I've heard of that may fix the player order imbalance went something like this--after you and your opponent(s) see the kingdom layout, you each bet debt tokens on getting to go first, with the one betting the most taking the debt and going first (like Mountain Pass).

3) Players understand that after many games and presumably getting equal first player and second player, the player order advantage all evens out. Yeah it can be tilting to go second on a kingdom with Donate for example, but one game of Dominion doesn't mean anything on its own. I think most people are happy with the real rule.

68

Dominion General Discussion / Re: New online version of Dominion (with neural-network based AI) from Temple Gates

« on: May 19, 2021, 12:02:37 am »

Presumably it just guesses the most likely card in its deck, the same way a person does (if they are properly deck tracking).

That's not always the optimal strategy, though--if finding a less common card helps your turn a lot more, then it may be worth it to guess that card instead of the most common card. E.g., you really need a village but the most common card is copper. I don't know how the new AI would handle it, but if it looked to the end of the turn or to the end of a couple turns, it could create a probability model out of different scenarios. I just wonder how slow/fast the AI will be--imagine if the remaining deck has multiple Wishing Wells, but Wishing Well is not the most common card remaining in the deck.

69

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: May 09, 2021, 10:46:51 am »

Possession + Way of the Butterfly was not cute.
(You return opponent's cards to supply gain cards for yourself)

pretty nasty actually

Procession + anything that can get cards out of your deck without trashing is pretty bad.  Masquerade and Ambassador, especially in 2-player, can be pretty brutal.  "Alright, let me just go ahead and Ambassador 2 Colonies here ...".  But at least with those you can protect yourself by just not buying those cards.  Nothing you can do to prevent a Way from being used ...

Actually, you can't always protect yourself from Ambassador or Masquerade. The Possession player can buy multiple copies of Masquerade and/or Ambassador and pass them to the other player during a normal turn--if the Possession player can then play Possession on the same turn, the other player has no time to get rid of the cards that were just passed to them.

70

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Variants to make the game more fair & less luck dependent?

« on: March 29, 2021, 01:02:26 pm »

You can also play chess instead of dominion. Solves all randomness issues.

Yeah, if you want to avoid randomness entirely, Dominion isn't a great game.

I highly recommend Prismata--only randomness is the unit pool available for purchase (like Dominion's random kingdom). One of the initial design ideas was to make something like a deck-building game where you always have your whole deck in hand--avoids randomness of draws. It doesn't really feel like a card game, but I recommend trying it out. It was called MCDS in development, which stands for Magic, Chess, Dominion, and Starcraft.

71

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ways to guarantee getting a $5 action by the fourth turn

« on: March 17, 2021, 01:48:24 am »

Donate should definitely be on the list.

How does guarantee? You are probably right, I just want to confirm (and my brain isn't functioning enough to think about it).

Works for 3/4 and 4/3:
Turn 1 - Buy silver
Turn 2 - Donate down to silver and 4 copper (4 or 5 debt)
Turn 3 - Pay off debt
Turn 4 - Buy 5 cost action

72

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Quesyion about Kiln and Stockpile

« on: January 28, 2021, 10:52:21 am »

Because Kiln says "first," you choose whether or not to gain a copy of the next card before following any of the instructions on that card.

73

Game Reports / Re: Conquest + Scrying Pool + Courtier

« on: January 15, 2021, 11:44:29 pm »

That is a great win!

74

Dominion FAQ / Re: Cargo ship leaves play by capitalism

« on: January 01, 2021, 03:52:37 pm »

For any duration card, once you play it, the effect listed on the card will always happen even if the duration card leaves play. Unless there is text that explicitly requires another condition to be fulfilled (like "if you did"), you always do as much as you can with the instructions on any card.

Also, I don't know if this is explicitly stated anywhere, but I believe most/all text in parentheses is not actually instruction that needs to be followed but more of helpful tips. I was looking at Haven and interestingly the "(under this)" was added in a second edition later--I don't think it functionally changed anything but made it helpful for tracking which card is associated with Haven's on-play ability.

There's no "reminder text" rule; text in parentheses applies. However the "under this" etc. on cards like Cargo Ship is just helpfully telling you how to track the effect; if the Cargo Ship is missing you still set aside a card, still get back the set-aside card.

Yeah, I didn't word that too well. I shouldn't have said "not actually instruction that needs to be followed," because you're right that parentheses text is not optional. Maybe there are some edge cases, but what I meant was not being able to follow the parentheses text usually still lets the rest of the card's instructions be followed normally--I think going by "do as much as you can" is a good way to go.

75

Dominion FAQ / Re: Cargo ship leaves play by capitalism

« on: January 01, 2021, 12:02:03 am »

For any duration card, once you play it, the effect listed on the card will always happen even if the duration card leaves play. Unless there is text that explicitly requires another condition to be fulfilled (like "if you did"), you always do as much as you can with the instructions on any card.

Also, I don't know if this is explicitly stated anywhere, but I believe most/all text in parentheses is not actually instruction that needs to be followed but more of helpful tips. I was looking at Haven and interestingly the "(under this)" was added in a second edition later--I don't think it functionally changed anything but made it helpful for tracking which card is associated with Haven's on-play ability.