Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

51

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 29, 2020, 06:56:14 pm »

My submission:



Apiary
Action - Duration, $4

Now and at the start of your next turn, choose 1: +1 Villager and +1 Buy; or gain a Honey.

Honey
Treasure, $5*

+3 Coffers
-
Provides 1 Coffers less per Honey in play, other than this.

(This is not in the supply.)

I kept wanting to do something with Coffers and Villagers and Buys, this was the best way I could think to work it.
...

Unless I'm misunderstanding Honey, it starts off as a Coffer-gold and just gets better in multiples. This seems way too strong to me - even if Honey was only a Coffer-silver and couldn't scale I still think it would be very strong to gain with Apiary.

Edit: I misread Honey as providing more coffers per copy of Honey in play rather than less. It still seems pretty strong though, especially given that the other mode of Apiary isn't completely terrible to have a copy of in your deck.

It also seems like it would encourage money strategies a lot but if that's what you're going for it's not an issue.

52

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 29, 2020, 01:14:14 am »

As it is strictly better than Smithy, it has to cost $5.

The discarding isn't optional.

53

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 28, 2020, 10:19:25 pm »

So, I'm going to put up a card from a past contest, see if it gets any love:



Feedback still welcome - the biggest question I have is if the cost is fine at $4 or should this maybe be a $3.

This feels like a potential $5 to me. The easiest comparison is with merchant guild - if you buy two of these you get a very similar effect as having one merchant guild provided that you draw into them, and unlike merchant guild it doesn't take up terminal space, although it does give you $1 less.
$4 might be more fun though provided that it isn't too crazy.

I'm pretty sure $3 would be underpricing this.

54

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles

« on: July 26, 2020, 11:21:03 pm »

I play Develop, trashing a card costing $x. This causes me to gain two cards. One of the gained cards costs $x. How did this happen?

You could also trash a $3 cost and reveal a Trader for one of the gained cards.

55

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 26, 2020, 11:08:32 pm »

Yield

+1 Buy
Reveal your hand. +$1 per different card type you reveal.
-
During your turns, this costs $1 more per different card type you have in play.

Treasure
$4

A variety-themed payload card.

56

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 26, 2020, 02:29:03 pm »

Contest question: are designs with multiple cards permitted? And if so, does only one of the cards have to fulfill the two vanilla effects criterion?

I'm thinking about things like split piles, hermit/madman, vampire/bat, heirlooms, and travelers here.

57

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 24, 2020, 11:06:41 pm »

Contest #81 Results

I wanted to use at least a bit of playtesting with my judging this week, but playing everybodys' cards just wasn't feasible. So, I picked the ones I thought were the best and then played those to decide on an actual winner. I'll comment on the ones I didn't test first before getting to those I have tested (which I am awarding honorable mentions) and ending with the one I have picked as the winner. Other than that though, these are in no particular order.


Scenic Route - grep

Scenic Route
$5 - Action
+2 Cards
If the previous card you have played this turn was not Scenic Route, +2 Actions.
While this is in play, you cannot buy Attack cards.

So, this is interesting. I like the way that the top does "Lost City, but weaker". However the bottom half doesn't feel great to me. In games without attacks, it does nothing to mitigate the power of the card, and in games with essential attacks either you can just buy some attacks before stocking up on these (with most attacks you don't want a ton of copies anyways, as many either don't stack or run out). I would really like to see the top half of this return someday with a different downside.


Moat - majiponi

Moat
cost $2 - Action - Reaction
+2 Cards
This turn, you are unaffected by other players' playing Attack cards.
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may play this from your hand.


A moat variant. In 2-player games, almost strictly better than the official Moat (edge case: you cannot choose to be affected by another Attack). In 4-player game, for example, when Alice plays a Militia, you can draw and protect yourself "this turn"; you have to discard 3 cards when Bob plays another Militia.

I feel like this suffers from a variant of the attack-reflection problem - playing this out of your hand and completely no-selling an Attack is a very strong reaction effect, so in games with this the correct move may be for both players to avoid attacks and also Moat.

This dynamic doesn't occur in multiplayer though.


Waterwheel - mandioca15

Waterwheel (Action, $6)

+3 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand.
———
When you gain this, trash a card from your hand. If you didn’t, return this to its pile.

A big problem I have with this card is how expensive it is. It's basically a masquerade+, but its high cost ($6.5 because you need to actually have a card in hand to trash too, which will often be Copper) makes buying this for trashing purposes not a viable strategy much of the time. Buying it just as a draw card, however, is super underwhelming. I feel like this would work much better at $5, or perhaps at $4 with mandatory trashing.

I am a big fan of the below the line effect on this one, but I don't think the rest of the card works well with it.


Auramancer - spineflu

Auramancer • $2^ • Action
+$2
-
While this is in play, Actions with +$ amounts in their text are also Treasures.

I feel like you rarely will want to buy this card. Unless this lets you play 3 or more additional cards it is worse than a Festival. It costing a potion is a major opportunity cost, especially given that you don't really want more than 1 or 2 copies (at least they turn into silvers upon being played though). I can see there being games where it ends up playing an interesting role but I believe those will be relatively rare and usually pretty obvious.


Scouting Party - Jonatan Djurachkovitch

Scouting Party
Action-Reserve - 4$
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.
----------------------------------------------
You may call this before or after you resolve an Action to reveal the top 4 cards of your Deck: discard any number and put the rest back in any order.
----------------------------------------------
When you gain this, put it on your Tavern mat.

This is like a Cartographer effect with the differences that a) it's not a cantrip but instead just a +1 Action and b) it can be saved for use whenever you want it most. I feel like you'll want to call this right after playing itself the majority of the time because this sort of sifting is pretty strong. The most interesting thing it does is how it gains itself to the tavern mat - with that, buying one for its ability to be used next turn seems like an interesting play to make.


Horseman - [TP] Inferno

Horseman
$3
Action-Reaction
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard 2 cards.
-------
When any player plays an Attack card, you may play this from your hand.
(+1 Action has no effect if it's not your turn)

I like the way that this lets you get a Village effect if you play an Attack card with it. However, the fact that it reduces your handsize combined with the rather specific reaction condition makes me feel as if it would be a better with a different top half that helps let it be an enabler more easily.


Pushy Salesman - LibraryAdventurer

Pushy Salesman
- Action - Duration - Attack
Now and at start of next turn: +, +1 Buy.
At the start of next turn: If no other player gained a curse since your last turn, +1 Coffers.
-
While this is in play, when another player ends their buy phase, they reveal their hand. If they have any unspent or unplayed treasures, they gain a curse and a copper.

This feels rather centralizing to me. It's like a Mountebank that, rather than being able to discard a curse to defend against, you have to give up control over building your deck. I wish the attack was less severe, or at least ran out eventually, so that taking this was more of an option.

It's also swingy in that you often don't have control over your exact coin production so whether your plans will be unaffected by this or not is up to chance a lot of the time.


Salt - Fragasnap

Salt
Types: Treasure, Duration
Cost: $3
$1. When you play this and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.While this is in play, when you gain or trash a card costing at most $4, you may Exile it.

This is an interesting effect, but a bit niche. I feel like it would be better as a Silver+ that worked on $5 cards, in order to make it more universally something worth considering while still letting it be good where it is now.


Employ - LordBaphomet

Contracter [one per player]
+1 Card, +1 Action, exchange one of your Ally cards with another player's.

Watchman - Ally - Reaction
Discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand.
-------------------------------------------
While this is on your ally mat, when you gain a card you may trash it.

Financier - Ally - Reaction
+1 Buy, +1$
--------------------
While this is on your ally mat, when you gain a treasure you may set this aside. If you do, play this and return this to your ally mat at the end of your turn.

Thug - Ally - Attack
+2 Cards, each other player with 4 or more cards in their hand discards one card.

Conman - Ally - Attack
+2$, Each other player takes 1 debt or gains a copper, their choice.

Craftsman - Ally
+1 Action, gain a card costing up to 3$.

Hag - Ally - Attack
Each other player gains a curse. You may trash a curse from your hand.

Tavernkeeper - Ally
+2 Cards, +2 Actions, discard 2 cards.

Courtesan - Ally - Victory
+3$, take your -1 card token.
-----------------
This is worth 2 VP if on your Allies mat at the end of the game.

Propagandist - Ally
+1 Action, +1 Buy, +1$
----------------------------------------------------
When this leaves your ally mat, take your -1$ token.
----------------------------------------------------------------
While this is on your ally mat, if you bought a victory card this turn, you may take 1 debt to gain 1VP.

Slaver - Ally - Curse
+3 Cards, +1 Buy
----------------------------------------------
This is worth -2 VP if on your Allies mat at the end of the game

This is an interesting concept. I feel like there's too much going on here for how much depth it adds to the game though. It seems like a lot of the time the optimal play will be to use your first Employ each turn to take whatever Ally you want to play the others as - spending more than 1 Employ play in a turn taking Allies sounds like something that would be very difficult to justify, especially in multiplayer games.

I also agree with whoever else said that the VP at the end of the game shouldn't be on this type of card - as is it can potentially give a relatively easy 4VP to whoever ends the game in 2p.


Horse Wrangler - Xen3k

Horse Wrangler - Action Duration - $3
Now and at the start of your next turn, gain a Horse.
-
Until the end of your next turn, if you have fewer than 3 Horses in Exile, when you play a Horse, Exile a Horse from its pile.

This is an interesting take on Horses that I don't think I've seen before. It kind of worries me how much draw having 2 of these and playing them every turn adds to your deck though. (You get 5 Horses every turn for the cost of 1 terminal Action play each turn).


Scout - silverspawn

It's everyone's favourite Intrigue 1st edition outtake! Scout was usually not an actively bad card to have and the new Reaction effect combined with the low price makes me think that this is actually rather strong for a $2 cost. I like the way you can use this as a makeshift Village although I don't think its particularly good at that function.

A minor complaint is that the cheap price makes it easy to load up on and make each turn take forever, as the Scout effect takes a while to resolve.


Innkeeper - faust

Innkeeper - $4
Action - Reserve - Command

Gain a Gold. Put this on your Tavern mat.
-
When you play a Gold, you may call this, to play a non-Command Action from the supply, leaving it there.

This seems kind of crazy to me. The on-play effect is already decent, if a bit weak for its price (comparison with Leprechaun) but the reserve effect is so good considering that in games with this you will already easily have access to a lot of Golds, potentially letting you use a $4 terminal to play whatever terminal you want every turn. It is true that playing a bunch of these will dilute your hand, but that's easily ameliorated by the presence of TfB, which isn't uncommon. Even without TfB, dilution due to Golds isn't usually that bad because of how good a bunch of Golds are at buying things.

Arbiter
Action - $5
+1 Buy
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card that isn't a Treasure, gain a Gold

This is usually going to be at least "Gain a Gold" for $5, which isn't great by itself, but it's relatively easy to get 2 or 3 golds out of this. The main reason I'm not rating this higher is because of the crazy potential it has with things that gain a lot of cards - with Haggler or one of the Horse gainers it's very easy to get to 4 golds or more off of this card. You won't always want that many Golds but, as with Innkeeper, there's often TfB that can put them to good use.

Marooner
+$3
Exile this and another card from your hand. Each other player reveals the top card of their deck and discards it if it costs $3 or more.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it and each other player with 4 or more cards in hand puts a card from their hand onto their deck.

I like the concept of a Stockpile-like attack. However, the on-play combined with the Reaction effect seems strong to me, and that makes me worry that games with this would often be very slow affairs. I don't think that there's anything wrong with it balance wise though.


Honorable Mention: Elite Village - D782802859

I really like how this makes building easier while being a pain during greening. However, the downside is just too harsh to consider taking this if there are any other decent Villages - when playing with this it's clear that putting more than one Victory card atop your deck (as one of the prime reasons to build up is to double-buy provinces) is just too harsh a downside. I think that this would be much improved if it did the Sea Hag thing so that it could only ever give you a 4 card hand - with that I think that the decision between going for this or not would be a lot more interesting.


Honorable Mention: Salesman - grrgrrgrr

The setup rule here is great - it can make a mediocre card great or a great card awesome but since it's only the +Buy token and not one of the others it can't make things completely broken. The event itself I didn't really think added much to the game though. Although the bottom half was a very clever way to ensure that it was always usable, it ultimately was just a slight increase in flexibility that didn't really require planning - the possibility of using Salesman doesn't make having Buys more enthralling than it normally is.


Runner-Up: Flea Market - anordinaryman

Flea Market - Action - $3
+$2
During your buy phase this turn, you may buy cards from the Trash for $1 less than their cost but not less than $0.
-----------------------------
Setup: Put the top card of each Supply pile into the trash.

First, a technical note - the way this is worded, the cost reduction doesn't stack. This didn't matter in my tests and I doubt you'd often care about it though.

Using this as a building card was interesting. Using this leads to building differently than you would normally because of how good a deal you get via use of multiple buys, especially on cheaper cards.

However, it really suffers from wanting +Buys - using it as a terminal Gold isn't that great because of how it picks up from the trash most of the time. I also didn't get a chance to test this in multiplayer but I'm a bit worried about how it would do with more than 2 people. Even with these issues though, it still ended up creating a good game dynamic that felt unique.


Winner: Specialty Shop - X-tra

     

I remember seeing this on the variants part of the Discord a while back - I'm happy you didn't take my comments into account because it would be hard for me to pronounce it as winner if you had. Also I'm pretty convinced I was wrong now.

Playing with this just added a whole new dynamic to the game. It definitely has the capability to be game-warping (I experienced this) but it is in a good way because "buy Specialty Shop" is hardly a coherent strategy by itself - the timing of the buys and what to actually use it for are also key aspects.

It can also draw dud cards on the Shop mat in which case it's not fantastic - although putting one of these in play to gain cheap dud cards on a +Buy can still be a decent use.

The only thing I would do to change this would be to make it only put Kingdom card piles costing less than $6 - that way, no one can ever be locked out gaining a particular card completely (OK it can still happen in 6p but there are official cards that aren't great at 6p either so that doesn't concern me).


Results Summary:

Honorable Mentions: Elite Village by D782802859 and Salesman by grrgrrgrr

Runner-up: Flea Market by anordinaryman

Winner: Specialty Shop by X-tra

Overall this weeks cards were interesting, it was fun looking through all of these!

58

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 24, 2020, 04:38:13 pm »

I think this is a good place to put the absolute deadline for this week.

I'll have the results written up within 12 hours.

59

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 23, 2020, 02:16:47 pm »

24 Hours Remaining

60

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Just Some Random Cards: #51 - Tiddlywinks

« on: July 20, 2020, 02:49:13 pm »

#52 - Prospector

Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
...

This should set aside and then discard at the end - this makes it so that infinite loops can't happen (especially with a cost-reduced Patron, which would give you infinite coffers).

61

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 17, 2020, 07:13:43 pm »

Thank you alion8me but I guess I finished them off while you were compiling your post, and you wrote them up much nicer than me . I'll delete the duplicates from my post.

Ah sorry! I just wanted to make sure that a partial list wasn't left up.

62

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 17, 2020, 06:46:20 pm »

For reference the dividing lines in the game are:
Reveal after attack to be unaffected (Moat)
1 VP (Mill)
2 VP (Nobles, Harem, Island)
While in play, attacks don't affect you (Lighthouse)
Topdeck if you didn't buy Victory card (Treasury)
Topdeck treasure when you discard this from play (Herbalist)
Topdeck if you played potion (Alchemist)

Setup mat and coins (Trade route)
Reveal on gain to trash or topdeck (Watchtower)
Actions cost 2 less (Quarry)
Gain double on $4 or less buy (Talisman)
Trash treasures in play when bought (Mint)
May topdeck new gain (Royal Seal)
Gain gold when you buy Victory card (Hoard)
+1 VP on buy (Goons)
Can't buy if copper in play (Grand Market)
Costs 2 less per action in play during buy phase (peddler)

Set aside from hand on attack, +1 card and return to your hand next turn (Horse Traders)
Add bane (Young Witch)
Cards cost 2 less (Princess)

May gain this when you gain duchy (Duchess)
When other player gains province, trash this to topdeck gold (Fool's gold)
When dicarded, gain gold (tunnel)
This is gained onto deck (nomads)
Reveal to gain silver instead of other card (trader)
When gained, gain two coppers (hoard)
When gained, opponents gained silver (embassy)
cards cost 1 less (highway)
When gained, opponents gain a curse (igg)
Gain cheaper card on buy (haggler)
Shuffle any actions from discard into deck when gained (inn)
Topdeck treasures in play (mandarin)
gain cheaper card on gain (border village)
Remodel card when gained (farmland)

Discard when attacked to gain 2 silvers, topdecking one (beggar)
Gain attack when trashed (squire)
when dicarded without buying, trash this and gain X (hermit)
When you trash a card, may discard this for gold (market square)
When you play another attack, trash this and gain X (urchin)
Gain two ruins when gained (death cart)
gain 3 silvers when trashed (feodum)
put into hand when trashed (fortress)
+1 card when trashed (rats, overgrown estate)
gain cheaper card when trashed (catacombs)
+3 cards when trashed (cultists)
gain duchy or 3 estates when trashed (hunting grounds)
gain gold when trashed (sir vander)

Use these for inspiration or reference! Note: the wordings were altered to make it faster to type

I would like to note, this is missing a few;

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, +2 Cards, then put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck (Secret Chamber) (yes this counts even though it's a first edition only card)
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from a hand of 5 or more cards, to draw 2 cards then discard 3 (Diplomat)

Overpay for Action cards (Stonemason)
Overpay for trashing (Doctor)
Overpay for Silvers (Masterpiece)
Overpay for topdecking (Herald)
Setup: each player starts with +1 Coffer (Baker)
When you buy a card, +1 Coffer (Merchant Guild)

Call for +2 Actions (Coin of the Realm)
Call for trashing (Ratcatcher)
When another player plays an attack card, play this from your hand (Caravan Guard)
Call for discard your hand, draw 5 cards (Guide)
Call for a copy of gained card costing up to $6 (Duplicate)
When this is your first buy, pick a card costing up to $4 to distribute (Messenger)
When you buy this, gain another one (Port)
Call for remodel-in-place effect (Transmogrify)
Worth 4VP on tavern mat (Distant Lands)
When you gain this, other players draw a card (Lost City)
Call for Throne effect (Royal Carriage)
Call if you have $2 unspent (Wine Merchant)
Call for Adventures tokens (Peasant/Teacher)
Exchanging for other cards upon discarding (Various)

When you gain or trash this, gain a silver, putting it somewhere special (Rocks)
When you gain this, take VP from its pile (Temple)
When you gain this, put it in your hand, +1 Action, and go to your Action phase (Villa)
When you discard this from play, take 6 Debt that you may pay off (Capital)
When you gain this, if you have at least 5 Action cards, +2 VP (Emporium)
When you buy this, +1 Buy (Forum)
While this is in play, when you gain a Victory card, +1 VP (Groundskeeper)
When you gain this, gain a Gold per Gladiator you have in play (Fortune)
Worth 1 VP per castle you have (Humble Castle)
When you gain or trash this, +1 VP and gain a Silver (Crumbling Castle)
When you gain this, gain a gold and discard attack (Haunted Castle)
3 VP (Opulent Castle)
When you gain this, gain a Duchy or 3 Estates (Sprawling Castle)
When you gain this, reveal your hand. +1 VP per Victory card in hand and/or in play (Grand Castle)
Setup: Add 1 debt to each supply pile (Tax)
Setup: Put 8 VP tokens on the Silver and Gold piles (Aqueduct)
Setup: Put 6 VP tokens here per player (Various)
Setup: Put 2 VP on each non-Gathering supply pile (Defiled Shrine)
Setup: Choose a random Action Supply pile (Obelisk)

Setup: Set aside the top 3 Boons face up (Druid)
When you discard this other than during clean up, set it aside and put it in your hand next turn (Faithful Hound)
This is gained to your hand (Various)
In games using this, when you gain a card costing $3 or more, you may exchange it for this (Changeling)
When you gain this, take a Boon and receive it either now or at the beginning of next turn (Blessed Village)
When you gain this, trash up to 4 cards from your hand (Cemetery)
Setup: Put the 3 Zombies into the trash (Necromancer)
When you gain this, gain a gold (Skulk)
When you gain this, receive a Hex (Cursed Village)
When you trash this, you may discard and Action card to gain a Ghost (Haunted Mirror)
Worth 1 VP per Estate (Pasture)

When you gain this, you may trash a Copper from your hand (Ducat)
When you gain this, +2 Villagers (Lackeys)
When you gain this, gain another one (Experiment)
When you gain or trash this, take the Flag (Flag Bearer)
When something causes you to reveal this, +1 Coffers (Patron)
When you gain or trash this, +1 Coffers and +1 Villager (Silk Merchant)
When you gain this, +2 Coffers (Spices)

When another player gains a Victory card, you may play this (Black Cat)
When you gain a card, you may discard this to topdeck/put it into hand (Sleigh)
When you gain this, Exile a Gold from the supply (Camel Train)
When you gain this, you may discard Treasures for Horses (Hostelry)
When you gain a card, you may play this (Sheepdog)
This has the same cost as the last other card gained this turn (Wayfarer)
Instead of paying this card's cost, you may trash an Action card from your hand (Animal Fair)
During your turns, this costs $1 less per card you've gained this turn (Destrier)
During your turns, this costs $3 less if your discard is empty (Fisherman)
When you gain this, +2 Cards, +1 Buy, return to your Action phase (Cavalry)
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may play it (Village Green)
When any player gains a multi-type card, you may play this (Falconer)
Setup: Set aside an unused Action costing $2 or $3 (Way of the Mouse)

I think this should be all of them.

63

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: July 17, 2020, 06:02:58 pm »

Dragon

Gain a Treasure card to your hand. Each other player reveals their hand and trashes any cards whose name includes the word "village".

Action
$6

Dragonslayer's Village

+1 Card
+2 Actions

-

When another player plays a Dragon, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, they trash it instead of following its instructions.

Action-Reaction
$4

Dragon's Hoard

+$8
-1 VP

-

If you have a Dragonslayer's Village in play, you must reveal and trash this from your hand.

$14
Treasure-Reaction-Curse

Someone a while ago said something about there not being enough really bad card ideas on the really bad card ideas thread. I hope this fixes that.

64

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 17, 2020, 05:04:34 pm »

Thank ya'll!

Also, I agree with everyone else that Carline's judging is fantastic - I'm worried about how I'll be able to follow that up!

Anyways...


Contest #81 - A Fine Line

Design a card/card-shaped thing that has a dividing line, where the effect under the line is unique. Reactions almost always have them, but there are other types of things you can do with them too: on-trash, on-gain, reserve, setup, while-in-play, or in-games-using-this effects just to name a few. Traveler lines and the use of other non-supply piles are fine, but below-the-line effects similar to "when you discard this from play, you may exchange this for an X" are not considered to be unique for the purposes of this contest, even if X isn't gained by any official card in this way. So, out of the official travelers, Page would not satisfy these rules but Peasant would due to Teacher. Double-line (or more) cards are fine, as long as at least one of the below-the-line effects are unique.

I'll be here to check if there are any questions regarding the rules of the contest throughout the week. Good luck!

65

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Just Some Random Cards

« on: July 17, 2020, 03:15:16 am »

Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.

#49 - Pit Stop

Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.

It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.

This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.

I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".

On the contrary, the card is far weaker than Hamlet, Squire or Druid. The only it beats which provides extra Buys is sometimes Pawn.

I don't think the power level of the card on average is problematic, the high end seems way too crazy for my liking though.

Aside from the extreme end of being able to empty the copper pile in one turn (King's Court, Royal Carriage, and Champion all make this relatively easy to do), this also does silly things with cost reduction. Put a few Highways in play alongside 3 Pit Stops and now you've just bought an entire pile in one turn. I know you can do this in other ways but as far as I am aware there is no other nonterminal that you can play 3 copies of to get a total of +9 Buys, let alone one that costs $2.

I don't think the concept of being able to turn Actions into Buys is problematic, the quadratic scaling just gets out of hand way too quickly when having a ton of +Buys is useful.

They are stop cards and without cost reduction, the marginal benefit of an additional Buy decreases massively.
 So no, there is no craziness. If there is any, it is due to the cost reducers, not due to some very weak Necropolis+.

Playing nothing at all buy KC+Pit Stop gives you 18 buys. From just 2 cards. It's far too close to "in games using this; there is no buy limit".

Does the craziness come from Pit Stop or KC? And in how many Kingdoms with Pit Stop and KC are 18 Buys worth significantly more than 3 or 4?

I think the craziness comes from Pit Stop - I would argue there's no other card that comes close to giving you as many +Buys off of KC. A +Buy'd Squire or Sir Martin only gives half that amount, and that's a somewhat difficult case to trigger (Teacher is required in the case of Squire, and you have to either grab Sir Martin specifically with Seaway or use a cost reducer if not using Teacher), in comparison to Pit Stop which needs no such token to already provide twice as much.

+18 Buys isn't often useful, but in the situations you do want it Pit Stop makes it way too easy to obtain.

The bottom line for me is that changing Pit Stop to not stack wouldn't appreciably change the power level of the card on average but prevents it from being completely insane when it's good.

66

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Just Some Random Cards

« on: July 16, 2020, 05:12:02 pm »

Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.

#49 - Pit Stop

Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.

It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.

This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.

I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".

On the contrary, the card is far weaker than Hamlet, Squire or Druid. The only it beats which provides extra Buys is sometimes Pawn.

I don't think the power level of the card on average is problematic, the high end seems way too crazy for my liking though.

Aside from the extreme end of being able to empty the copper pile in one turn (King's Court, Royal Carriage, and Champion all make this relatively easy to do), this also does silly things with cost reduction. Put a few Highways in play alongside 3 Pit Stops and now you've just bought an entire pile in one turn. I know you can do this in other ways but as far as I am aware there is no other nonterminal that you can play 3 copies of to get a total of +9 Buys, let alone one that costs $2.

I don't think the concept of being able to turn Actions into Buys is problematic, the quadratic scaling just gets out of hand way too quickly when having a ton of +Buys is useful.

67

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Just Some Random Cards

« on: July 15, 2020, 03:07:15 pm »

Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.

#49 - Pit Stop

Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.

It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.

This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.

I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".

68

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 14, 2020, 06:29:00 pm »

I also feel like you will very rarely be able to reveal this during your Night phase and not your Buy phase (it would basically require that there are night cards in the setup).

Just a comment on this, the card is Night type, so it can always be played during the Night phase.

Oh that makes sense.

I would put the "When you have at least 7 unique cards in play, you may play this from your hand." under a dividing line, usually reaction effects are like that. I interpreted this as a pure reaction with the Night type added to it to force Night phase to be a phase in the current game because of the nonstandard placement of the reaction effect. My interpretation is still wrong either way but I think changing the formatting would make the correct interpretation more obvious.

69

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 14, 2020, 03:23:22 pm »

New entry - rewards variety and gets stronger the earlier you play it.

Isn't this supposed to have the Attack and Doom types also?

It should have doom. It doesn't have action because you play it in your action or buy phase from the reaction.

He said Attack type, not Action type. And he's probably right; you should be able to defend against it.

The reward for playing it in your action phase is super strong, but also hard to ever get. That makes it hard to know if it's balanced or not... in games where you can get to 7 unique cards in play during your action phase, this might be far too powerful.

I feel like the action part of this is basically never helpful because if you can get 7 unique cards in play consistently, you are probably drawing your deck with or without Fae Market.

Black Market and Storyteller are maybe the only cases where this isn't true, but I'm still not sure of it, because playing a bunch of different treasures with Storyteller basically guarantees you draw your deck and playing BM into Fae Market still requires a bunch more cards for setup.

I also feel like you will very rarely be able to reveal this during your Night phase and not your Buy phase (it would basically require that there are night cards in the setup).

I think it should have an effect of payload during your Action phase, that would make the restriction on when it can be played mesh a lot better with what the card does.

70

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.

« on: July 13, 2020, 05:45:40 pm »

I was just reading through the secret histories, for Conspirator you say that it replaced a really crazy card late into set development that was to be fixed up for a later expansion. Has a fixed version of that card been released and if so what is it?

71

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 10, 2020, 10:24:56 pm »

Yeah, that's probably a better way of thinking about it. I think the ability to choose which card you get next turn is really really important though.

Not getting 2 Actions but "play two Actions" is really important too, especially when it is on a splitter that does not draw. If there is only one other Action in your hand, it basically halves the power of the village.

It's not clear to me that you have to select both actions before playing them; the way I'm reading it, you select and play action #1 from your hand before even selecting action #2. I agree that it is quite a bit weaker if you use that interpretation of the card.

The card should probably have an FAQ to make this question clear, given that we both interpreted it differently. (Alternatively, it could have "set aside" or "do this twice" wording to align more closely with existing cards.)

72

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 10, 2020, 05:58:46 pm »

The net effect of the card is not +2 Actions on turn 2, because you don't have to draw it or the card you used it with, that's why I made the Lost City comparison.

I tried to illustrate with my last post why it is unwise to seperate the net effects of Durations. If you view the second turn stuff isolated from the first turn stuff, the card looks far better than it is:

Haunted Woods is a next turn triple Lab! And I thought even Double Labs are overpowered!
Well, yeah, but it is dead on the first turn and the net effect of the card is the same as that of Smithy, -1 Action and +2 Cards.

Captain's Quarters has gross effects of +2 Actions on the first turn and +1 Card and +1 Action on the second turn. That's a net effect of +2 Actions which is Double Village, which does no exist officially, which makes it tricky to evaluate while taking similar stuff like Port and Bustling Village as rough benchmarks.

OK, now we saw that the card is basically a splitter that also Schemes and delays the "draw". Delaying the draw sucks, providing the Actions spread over 2 turns like Fishing Village and the quasi-Scheming is brilliant for consistency.

Lost City on the other hand is net +1 Card and +1 Action and has very little to do with Captain's Quarters. The former net draws, the latter does not.

Net effects are only the first step, the subtleties of a card are much more interesting (and IMO very hard when it comes to Durations which is why I have no idea whether this is a $4 or a $5). But getting net effects right is important because it makes it less likely that you miscategorize and thus misevaluate a card (not saying you did!).

I agree with a lot of the things you said here, especially the first two sentences. I've perhaps not been explicit enough in how the fact that the 1st turn effect is often passable (if Shanty Town is the only Village, you will probably buy it given good terminals, even if it is more often than not a Necropolis) combined with the strong second turn effect (it is not just a scheme combined with a village; this effectively gives you an extra draw ahead of the Scheme too).

Captain's Quarters can be said to net draw, if you're comparing it to Village. If I play Village, I get net +0 Cards. The first turn of Captain's Quarters, I get net -1 Cards, but on the second turn, I get net "+2 cards" where the two cards that I draw are Necropolis and whatever Action I set aside. The "+2 cards" are also stronger than any ordinary +2 cards because one of the two cards is going to be something I really want it to be.

By the same reasoning, isn't a Village really like Laboratory that draws you a Necropolis and something else? That just seems like a really convoluted way of thinking about it. Captain's Quarter loses a card the turn you play it (like Necro) and gets you a card the next turn (like Lost City). It's as if you played a Village this turn and next turn, except that the draw from this turn gets pushed back to next turn.

Yeah, that's probably a better way of thinking about it. I think the ability to choose which card you get next turn is really really important though.

73

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 10, 2020, 03:34:39 pm »

The net effect of the card is not +2 Actions on turn 2, because you don't have to draw it or the card you used it with, that's why I made the Lost City comparison.

I tried to illustrate with my last post why it is unwise to seperate the net effects of Durations. If you view the second turn stuff isolated from the first turn stuff, the card looks far better than it is:

Haunted Woods is a next turn triple Lab! And I thought even Double Labs are overpowered!
Well, yeah, but it is dead on the first turn and the net effect of the card is the same as that of Smithy, -1 Action and +2 Cards.

Captain's Quarters has gross effects of +2 Actions on the first turn and +1 Card and +1 Action on the second turn. That's a net effect of +2 Actions which is Double Village, which does no exist officially, which makes it tricky to evaluate while taking similar stuff like Port and Bustling Village as rough benchmarks.

OK, now we saw that the card is basically a splitter that also Schemes and delays the "draw". Delaying the draw sucks, providing the Actions spread over 2 turns like Fishing Village and the quasi-Scheming is brilliant for consistency.

Lost City on the other hand is net +1 Card and +1 Action and has very little to do with Captain's Quarters. The former net draws, the latter does not.

Net effects are only the first step, the subtleties of a card are much more interesting (and IMO very hard when it comes to Durations which is why I have no idea whether this is a $4 or a $5). But getting net effects right is important because it makes it less likely that you miscategorize and thus misevaluate a card (not saying you did!).

I agree with a lot of the things you said here, especially the first two sentences. I've perhaps not been explicit enough in how the fact that the 1st turn effect is often passable (if Shanty Town is the only Village, you will probably buy it given good terminals, even if it is more often than not a Necropolis) combined with the strong second turn effect (it is not just a scheme combined with a village; this effectively gives you an extra draw ahead of the Scheme too).

Captain's Quarters can be said to net draw, if you're comparing it to Village. If I play Village, I get net +0 Cards. The first turn of Captain's Quarters, I get net -1 Cards, but on the second turn, I get net "+2 cards" where the two cards that I draw are Necropolis and whatever Action I set aside. The "+2 cards" are also stronger than any ordinary +2 cards because one of the two cards is going to be something I really want it to be.

74

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 10, 2020, 02:14:26 am »

If this is still taking from in play, I still think it needs to be $5. The turn you play it, it's a Necropolis, which isn't great. However, on the second turn, it acts as a Lost City that draws into whatever action you set aside last turn! This seems like it's clearly too strong for $4 to me.

That is like saying that Merchant Ship should be a $7 because it is a DoublePeddler on the second turn or that Fishing Village needs to be a $5 because it is a Bazaar on turn 2.
Haunted Woods is even a triple Lab on turn 2, totally overpowered!

If you count the net effects of the card, it is + 2 Actions. It is better than DoubleVillage in one respect, Scheme-ing stuff (well, slightly worse as you are forced to play at the start of the turn) and worse in two respects, being a Duration and thus staying out and not drawing on the turn you play it.

So the crucial question to judge this card is whether a DoubleVillage is a $4 or $5.
If Port would not exist, I’d say $5. But I have a hard time imagining a situation in which I would pay $5 for this in a Port Kingdom. Of course this might say more about Port being too strong than the actual card.

I think Port does this with some of the official $5 villages too. Bazaar in particular seems like it is almost never worth getting in a Port game, Bandit Camp also seems like it is very infrequently worth getting. A lot of the others are situational and it would depend on the kingdom.

It's not like Captain's Quarter has a similar enough effect to Port that it is almost strictly worse than it. It simply does something different, and pretty unique for a village.

The net effect of the card is not +2 Actions on turn 2, because you don't have to draw it or the card you used it with, that's why I made the Lost City comparison.

Also, I think it being a nonterminal action is a pretty big deal when it comes to making a next-turn comparison. The only thing that it costs when setting up is a card in your hand, in contrast to Haunted Woods and Merchant Ship. So even though the next turn effects of those are pretty hefty, they're moderated by the fact that they still cost an action to play at some point. Fishing Village doesn't which is why the next turn effect is only a single Bazaar rather than two of them or something. "Lost City into whatever action you want that was in play last turn" is just so much stronger than "Bazaar" that I can't imagine it should cost less than $5, even though Captain's Quarter doesn't give you +$1 the turn you play it like Fishing Village does. I will admit that I think it's close though, I doubt costing it at $4 would completely break the game open but I think $5 would make it more interesting in gameplay.

Physician - Action - $6
+1 Action
Play any number of Treasures from your hand. You may spend any amount of $ to trash a card from your hand costing up to the amount spent. Then, draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

I feel like the card name requires some kind of self-trashing ability just to make a "Physician, heal thyself" joke, but that takes away from what I'm trying to do with the card.

This seems like something that could lead to monolithic money decks, even with it costing as much as it does. It's hard to know without actually trying it though.

75

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: July 10, 2020, 01:06:25 am »

Where is this setting aside an Action card from? That should be specified.

If this is still taking from in play, I still think it needs to be $5. The turn you play it, it's a Necropolis, which isn't great. However, on the second turn, it acts as a Lost City that draws into whatever action you set aside last turn! This seems like it's clearly too strong for $4 to me.

It's from play, thanks.

Is it really that powerful? It seems a little more powerful than the "play a card this turn and next" duration that Donald tested and found to be too weak

This is both easier to use on what you want to (instead of having to collide it directly with whatever you want to play next turn, you just have to play both in the same turn) and it does something on the turn you play it rather than effectively nothing. Also the something that it does on the turn you play it (being a Necropolis) encourages having a higher action density, which makes it easier to build a deck where you can use this on what you wanted.

Basically, I think this is way better because being a Ruined Village the turn you play it << being a Necropolis the turn you play it.

I've thought about having to pay $2 to set aside an action, do you think that weakens it enough? I want it to cost $4 so it can be gained by workshop variants.

That sounds like it would make it massively weaker. I don't think it needs nearly as steep a penalty on play to be priced at $4. You could try having it discard a card after it plays set aside card on turn 2; I think that this would ordinarily make it weaker than you might want for a $4, but the on-gain should balance that out. Or something else like that, the important thing I think is that the penalty both be somewhat small and always manageable. The main litmus test I'm using here is, how does this compare to Shanty Town. It can obviously be a good bit better than Shanty Town because of how weak Shanty Town is (and its cost of $3 as opposed to $4), but I think the version of the card without any penalty is clearly in a league of its own.