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51

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest 122: That Other Way of Drawing

« on: July 19, 2021, 07:28:15 am »

Aww I've been waiting for months to win a WDC so I could do DtX!!! I was going to name it "Quick on the Draw" darn you X-tra!!!
"

52

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #121: All Things Come to an End

« on: July 16, 2021, 06:01:47 pm »

FWIW, when Magic decided to print a card with "End the turn" on it, they had to add a whole new rules section to the comprehensive rules to describe the 6-step process that happens when you end the turn.

I wonder if you can just get away with "You cannot play any more cards or buy any cards or events this turn".

That would work and it would be a fun card, but it wouldn't fit this contest anymore.  Thanks for the suggestion though

You could do "End your Action and Buy phase." And that gets the point across. I think just "End your turn" is confusing as you see here, different people are unsure as to whether ending your turn includes or precludes your Clean-up phase (which is definitely part of your turn). Better to just avoid all ambiguity.

53

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #121: All Things Come to an End

« on: July 16, 2021, 05:56:56 pm »

Sorry last minute submission:



Was originally +3 cards and allowed self-chaining in order to deter this + big money, but that was pretty clearly too monolithic even as part of an engine. +5 cards also made this too good with big money, so now it's just +4 cards.

54

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 15: Level Up

« on: July 13, 2021, 03:49:08 am »

Unjer's Progress is a landscape card you can buy. It's buy neutral and costs $1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4 for a total of 10 levels of Progress. Here are a few of their cards:



These aren't the final versions I don't think, just what I had on hand. Hopefully they can post their set.

55

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 15: Level Up

« on: July 11, 2021, 11:10:47 pm »

This sounds just like Unjer's "Progress" cards. We've been playtesting a bunch of them in the Discord.

56

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 11, 2021, 05:13:40 am »

Thanks for judging! I really enjoyed this week's contest, the season mechanic is really interesting, I'd love to see more cards using it! I really enjoy the 12 turn season starting in Winter, I just played a playtest with it and its super cool how a year ends right about when the game does on average. Good entries everyone!

57

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 09, 2021, 01:06:38 pm »

If NoMoreFun intends to use the ordinary 20 turn season (he has not posted that he wants to deviate from the standard) the Winter nerf is likely not necessary.

You make some good points. Let's go ahead and modify the rules then, for a 12-turn "year". If anyone wants to go with the original 20-turn or a different number like 16, they can do that too, just specify that that's the intention

Assumed by this we were making 12 turns the default, and opt-in to 20 turns. I personally don't like "Winter is past when the game would usually end by anyway, so its fine if the bonuses are overpowered" solution. I agree winter should be the strongest bonus, but a double lab at $5 is a bit excessive.

58

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 09, 2021, 01:00:09 pm »

In Summer: Exile a card costing up to $5.

From where?

Anywhere. Abduct your opponent's duchies right out of their hands and swipe them to your exile.

59

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 09, 2021, 04:03:38 am »

I don't usually do this, but I like NoMoreFun's card enough that I want to make the card art for him, and its said when a submission has no art. I made one with his original design, and one with my wording and balance suggestion in case they want to use it.

Original:


My suggestion:

This version just makes what you put in the rules clarification explicit. I know its not strictly needed, but Don X felt he had to put (instead of your discard pile) on cards that were gained onto your deck, so I don't think its something that's obvious enough to be left out of the card. (Similarly to how hireling doesn't strictly need this stays in play but does anyway).

Obviously I'm partial to the latter, but up to NoMoreFun which one (if either) they'd like to use for their submission.

60

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 08, 2021, 09:01:55 pm »

I like this change: may i use the rule change for my card?

Of course, go ahead! It's X-tra's idea after all, and I just remade the original graphic I posted so it would look more dominion-y (matching font for numbers and text too).

61

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 08, 2021, 11:50:22 am »

Made tracker art for the 12-turn starting in winter version:


(not a graphic designer so please feel free to critique the design)


I was on the fence before but the more I think about the more confident I am that this version of seasons is likely the best. It guarantees a play in spring for the first shuffle, you'll actually be able to see winter in a large majority of games, and the next spring doesn't start until turn 15, the most common turn games end. It will play identically to the 20 turn seasons until turn 9, where you would be in Autumn here but have 2 more turns of Summer in the former, so I think this version is a great compromise. Also of course, has a nice parallel with IRL by starting in "January".

62

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 07, 2021, 09:44:16 pm »

Wrangler
Action/Season - $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a Horse...
In Summer: to the bottom of your deck
In Autumn: onto your deck
In Winter: to your hand

Rules clarification: In Spring, you Gain a Horse (to your discard pile)

Just want to let you know, Spring, Summer, and Autumn, this card is a delayed lab, with varying degrees of delay (with Autumn being equally strong as lab). However in Winter, this card is a double Lab. A double lab is pretty significantly stronger than a lab, DonX tested it at $8 and it was still too strong. Its okay that winter be a really strong effect, stronger than the cost would suggest, but that is pretty overboard. I suggest having Winter discard a card after gaining horse to hand. That way its +3 cards, +1 Action, discard a card. Still strictly stronger than lab, and still easily the strongest of the four seasons, without it being too crazy. Otherwise, I really like the card!

Cantrip + gain a Horse onto your deck isn't "equally strong as Lab."  It would only be equivalent to a Lab if you actually draw the Horse in the same turn. It's hyperbolic to call a card that's only a Lab if combined with another Cantrip "equally strong as Lab". You're right about Winter being a double Lab, though.

I didn't say "equivalent to" I said "equally as strong as". Setting up your next turn with a horse is about as good as getting +1 card now. There are definitely situations where you'd rather have a horse top-decked then get +1 card now, for example when you've already drawn your whole deck. With a drawn deck, autumn is *stronger* than a lab. Autumn is not a lab, but there are situations where it stronger than lab, and situations where it is weaker, and imo those occur about equally often. That's all that is meant by equally strong as. Autumn wrangle is to lab as Supplies is to peddler, they're not the same, but they are about as strong.

63

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 07, 2021, 06:11:28 pm »

Wrangler
Action/Season - $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a Horse...
In Summer: to the bottom of your deck
In Autumn: onto your deck
In Winter: to your hand

Rules clarification: In Spring, you Gain a Horse (to your discard pile)

Just want to let you know, Spring, Summer, and Autumn, this card is a delayed lab, with varying degrees of delay (with Autumn being equally strong as lab). However in Winter, this card is a double Lab. A double lab is pretty significantly stronger than a lab, DonX tested it at $8 and it was still too strong. Its okay that winter be a really strong effect, stronger than the cost would suggest, but that is pretty overboard. I suggest having Winter discard a card after gaining horse to hand. That way its +3 cards, +1 Action, discard a card. Still strictly stronger than lab, and still easily the strongest of the four seasons, without it being too crazy. Otherwise, I really like the card!

64

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Alchemy Reforged! [Feedback Needed!]

« on: July 07, 2021, 09:46:24 am »

Nerfed two cards, switched to a new version of Chain Reaction. Here is the change for reference:
                  OLD:                                       NEW:
 

Royal archives went from +9 cards, discard 3 to +8 cards, discard 2. Could still be too strong, would make it still discard 3 if so.

65

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next

« on: July 07, 2021, 09:22:43 am »

Part pageant part gain a card with debt, bookkeeper checks every turn to see if you're still in debt and sticks around if you are, at a price of course. Nets to terminal +$3 (ish) and a gain, and is basically a cantrip workshop if you can remain in debt. Basically a duration that stays in play until you buy a card, letting you stockpile until then.

This card was originally checking debt at the end of buy phase, then playing at the start of next turn to avoid Capital's debt, but then I realized that card didn't really need to be a duration, but then again it isn't the most broken combo with Capital. Original had +4 coffers 5 debt, but people thought +4 coffers was too much to put on a card on play regardless of debt. I am partial to keeping it at 5 debt though if its too strong at 3 coffers still.

66

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 06, 2021, 09:52:46 am »

Now if the effects are not or not always useful in that very season the card is naturally weaker.
Your second version looks decent, you get strong effects in Spring and Summer but not for long. Especially the Winter effect is weak (either you want villages and have some in your deck already, so the marginal benefit of extra villages is small, or you don’t want villages anyway and the card is basically just a Market Square) and should compensate for the strength of the card early on.

I already made this very point in a previous post: Workers Village is an engine piece so having this on a Season card is weak due to matching issues. Not so with single card engine pieces like Fugitive or cantrip trasher that do not have to be matched with anything (that’s why non-terminal draw is so powerful).

Ah see, that's exactly my point! Normally a worker's village effect with an extra action would easily be $4.5 or $5, but because its on a card that doesn't give that effect reliably, you can't expect it to be nearly as strong since it has marginal benefit in an engine that otherwise had to be built without it. Likewise you can't rely on the peddler payload, and you can't rely on continued thinning. It would be much preferable to get a single Fugitive, trasher, peddler, and worker's village than it would be to get 4 Tempests, and for that reason alone, Tempest should be cheaper than any one of those 4.

Also its a good thing to mention here, that the classic cantrip trasher for $4.5 thing is calculated for optional trash. Using Hideout as a baseline for mandatory trash, it's closer to $4. So really the only effect that is potentially too strong on this card is the Fugitive one, but hey that's printed on a $4, so I think overall the card is not as overpowered as you think (If you still think it is, I admit the version with the cantrip workshop *was* overpowered, just not for the reason you stated).

67

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 06, 2021, 02:17:38 am »

I totally disagree. Cantrip trashers like Junk Dealer and Upgrade are very much used in the midgame and are certainly worth far more than cantrips. You are right that you prefer them immediately in the opening but that doesn’t make midgame trashing worthless. Same with a Double Lab, that is always powerful.

The notion that you gotta somehow average these powerful effects as you don’t get them during the entire part of the game and that this makes the card basically a Harbinger, a cantrip with a minor bonus, is simply wrong as you get a strong effect in all Seasons.

For how much would you buy a trasher that said "This only trashes in a 3-turn window this game"? That is clearly no where near as strong as a $4.5. And after playtesting a bit and talking to other people about the season mechanic, I am absolutely certain that a season card's effects each individually need to be stronger than the price as a whole. Four $4 effects on a season card is absolutely not worth more than $4. You can't use old logic in a new situation and automatically expect it to apply.

68

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 05, 2021, 05:21:05 am »

Sift, trash, gain, draw. That's ALWAYS useful.

It's always useful *when you want it*.

When do you not want to sift, gain or draw? I literally always want to!
You can be too thin but that is unlikely to be the case in Summer.
So the first version of this card is always useful and notions like consistency, lack of control or whatever are of minor relevance.

I think you misunderstood. I never said there would be times where you wouldn't want those effects, I said there would be many times you *would* want a particular effect from tempest but can't get it cause its not the right season. Its worse than "x" because its not "x" every time you want "x". Put a different way, how much would a card that said "+1 Card, +1 Action, If its turn 6, 7, or 8, trash a card from your hand" be worth? If you said $4.5, you're dead wrong. That's barely worth more than a straight cantrip, $2.5 or $3 at most. Likewise for each of the other effects. A card that was "+1 Card, +3 Actions, +1 Buy, but only if its turns 12, 13, or 14" would similarly be so much worse than Worker's village. Putting all 4 barely-more-than-cantrip effects together just gets you back to $4.

69

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 05, 2021, 12:30:10 am »

Btw, I too am going with a version of the 12-turn season that X-tra proposed, one starting in middle of Winter instead of start of Spring, for the same reasons he laid out. I think it solves the different seasons on t3/t4 thing much more naturally than a 16 or 20 turn season, and its nice thematically to start in "January". Here is my art for the tracker:

70

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 04, 2021, 09:29:00 pm »

Tried to color-match one of segura's old season cards, which iirc used asper's original colors.

I don't think Seasons need/should have a new border color. Those are all reserved for cards that play outside of the normal times. Reactions play on your opponents turns, Reserve calls happen after a trigger, Night is a brand new phase, Duration on future turns, etc.
Seasons are not a new phase or timing, just a new type, so the same colors should be fine. Looters, castles, knights, etc. all add rules to the game but don't affect timing, and so have a new type but not new color, thus seasons likewise should do the same.

71

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 03, 2021, 06:42:12 pm »

Alright I've tweaked the card a bit:


Now each individual effect is reasonably a $4.5, which is nice because it offers a way to bring those 4 cards into the game where right now they can't be standalone. A mix of cards that could have been. Spring is inspired by Wind's gift, Summer by Fire's gift, Autumn was Earth's gift inspired but now its more Field's gift, and now Winter is Snowy Village inspired.

72

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 03, 2021, 05:39:18 pm »

Sift, trash, gain, draw. That's ALWAYS useful.

It's always useful *when you want it*. If you don't have control over when its each of those things, then it is strictly worse than any of those things individually. You may get Tempest in summer without the cards you want to trash, or really need to gain a card but miss Autumn by a turn, etc. For example, a cantrip trasher is significantly weaker when you only have a 3 turn to trash all your junk cards, and then not again for 9 turns. So my logic is, 4 effects that are all ~$5, are weakened significantly by the season mechanic, and then brought back up to $4 when we combine 4 of them together.

I will submit though that this card in particular is too strong, I think a good Season card will have each individual effect be $4.5 if its a $4, or each effect be a $4 if it's a $3.

73

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 03, 2021, 06:10:09 am »

It is obviously overpowered.
Fugitive and a cantrip that trashes are $4.5, cantrip workshop is a $5 and Lab plus Market Square is at least a $6.

I'm not sure if that's obvious. Each of those bonuses are are intentionally worth more than $4, because you only get each of those bonuses a limited time. It's a cantrip that trashes yes, but it'll only be that for a 3 turn window, meaning it basically a one-shot, or two-shot if you're lucky. You lose out on a lot of regularity and consistency you'd get from having just a cantrip trasher, so I think that makes the card overall weaker than what each of the components would give you. Its not like a "choose one", where having options makes the card as a whole stronger than any individual option, its the opposite. It's "you don't get to choose one". But hey maybe I'm wrong, maybe the versatility is enough to counter the inconsistency, but for sure I don't think the normal rules of judging card strength by cost of individual effects applies here.

74

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 03, 2021, 04:30:12 am »

If the intention was for Spring to not be seen again, then I don't see why 20 was chosen, since plenty of games go past 20. I thought it was more intuitive that you'd want to see Spring again, because you're obviously not going to play the cards in the first two turns, and that leaves Spring in basically t3-5, meaning any card that mentions Spring with the 20 turn system either needs to be an opener or is just irrelevant, and I don't think that's smart design wise. In fact, I think it would be more interesting with an approach that does see Spring again most games, it makes that season relevant and is kind of nice thematically. If its 20 turns, then Winter effects are just going to be sad in general because most games you'll just never see them. So I don't see why making two seasons virtually irrelevant is worth ensuring seasons don't double up (which honestly doesn't seem that big an issue anyway. I'd rather expect to be able to see at least an entire season most games than just expect to end around Autumn). However all that said, I can see the argument for 16 turns, since that's just a bit longer than the average game at 15.5 turns.


Anyway, here is my first attempt at a card (built for a 12 or 16 turn season).



No idea if this is balanced, still testing the waters a bit. Not sure if seasons as a whole should be stronger or weaker than their each individual effect. I went with strongest in winter/autumn and weakest in spring/summer here.

75

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season

« on: July 03, 2021, 03:17:38 am »

I personally think 20 turns for a full cycle is a bit antiquated. In 2013, a game lasting 20 turns was pretty conceivable, and slogs were more common. I think the average turn length of games has decreased by almost 2 turns since the days of isotropic if I recall correctly. Therefore, I think it appropriate to use for myself (and anyone else who agrees with my assessment), a 12-turn tracker. This way one would be guaranteed to at least reach winter in most games (assuming we start in spring), since even the fastest strategies on average end around turns 10-11, with normal games of 14-15 turns still just barely into the new spring. It also has the added benefit of thematically fitting with the 12 months of the year, which I think is nice. Here is a sample tracker I found:



I will replace the above picture with one I am making in photoshop. Either way, I think this concept can be very interesting!