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Messages - Gazbag

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326
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: March 19, 2018, 07:01:21 pm »
Hearing aid
$0-Action
Each other player draws 2 cards.

327
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: March 19, 2018, 01:53:55 pm »
Okay so yesterday I wrote a massive post going through all of your cards because it was snowy and I had nothing else to do, and I was just finishing it off this afternoon instead of doing work because I'm an idiot and I accidentally deleted it instead of posting it. So I'll try and just write something shorter on a few cards I had any real problems with. I was literally up to Urbanisation!!!  :'(

Sheriff: Seems too strong, I think it needs to cost at least $3. You can get one of these for $4 on the opening and then one for $5 on the second shuffle and that gives you 5 tokens so it's kinda like you've bought a terminal Silver curser for $4 which seems a little too good for me.

Farmer: This seems like it is to Journeyman what Oracle is to Catacombs, so I thinm it can get away with being $3.

Town/Road: This seems like a pretty clear $5 to me. Playing a Town and then Road is better than Lab! Sure, you have to draw them together for that to happen, but this can even just be a regular Village or a Smithy if you double play the Road. I think all this extra functionality makes up for the early unreliability. The Road gain isn't even mandatory!

Cliffside Village: This is incredibly powerful, but you probably realise that. Better than Junk Dealer easily, villages are great.

Necromancer/Zombie: I don't think a kingdom pile based around the Rogue/Graverobber+Knights interaction is a good idea. These game would never end!

Tribunal: I'd be careful about this, the attack seems like it could be very frustrating! I imagine Tribunal big money to be particularly agonising!

Minister: It's probably broken, but all the cost reduction cards are so I guess it just join the party!

Improve: I think this should just be remodel, not expand. Trashing an Estate to gain a $4 is similar to Summon and Seaway as a thing where you're spending $5 on a $4 but getting some other benefit. Trashing one to get a $5 has basically no decision involved because it's almost always going to be better than buying the $5.

I had plenty of other small thoughts, too lazy right now.

328
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion:Cities
« on: March 19, 2018, 09:52:56 am »
I think we should just let Chase have his fun and leave him to it. The fact that he tested his cards vs Province big money in a Colony game should be signal enough that it's a waste of time at this point. There are plenty of other fan sets made by people who are dying for this kind of analysis and feedback on their cards.

329
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« on: March 18, 2018, 11:30:54 pm »
Overlord can be a Debt cost reserve card. I wouldn't recommend it though. I guess it can be good as Wine Merchant on the last turn or something.

330
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 18, 2018, 03:09:37 pm »
I really like it as a reserve.  That seems to fix the Counting house/Settlers/Harbinger problem nicely.
At the cost of making the card terminal. Harbinger might sometimes misfire but it never hurts. With sifting/discarding it can also sometimes be smartly used midturn.
Gatherer can also hurt you if you have only one good card in your discard pile. We know that from Herald's overpay ability.

Gatherer costs $2 so it shouldn't be particularly strong. It's also up to 2, so if you have 1 good card you can still just topdeck that. I'd like to end up about as strong as Tracker, perhaps topdecking 3 wouldn't be too much.

331
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« on: March 18, 2018, 12:40:30 pm »
I think all that making Rebuild terminal does is make the mirror even more luck based as you basically play it the same and hope they don't collide...

332
The other thing about Port is that its special ability only fires if you buy it, and $4 Villages are at their most powerful when you can gain them.
You can still gain a Port with a Workshop and it'll still be as good a a regular Village.

333
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 17, 2018, 04:58:25 pm »
I dislike the new Igloo as it is vulnerable to handsize attacks. I also don't consider the old one to have been overpowered. Terminal space is usually limited so you have to think hard about whether that extra card is really worth the action.

The new one is a bit stronger unless there's a handsize attack, so there's that!

Here's a simpler non-reserve version of Sleigh, you can't save this up for next turn so it's a little weaker but it seems worth the simpler wording.


And here's a nerfed Rediscover. It was pretty obviously overpowered on reflection, not quite sure what I was thinking!

You need to build up a bit before you can use it and it gets harder and harder to call multiples in one turn as you trash cards from play.

And a couple of new reserves:

Gatherer:

Counting House and Harbinger type things always get flak for not working if the discard is empty, so I thought something looking at the discard was a good fit for a reserve effect. It gives a Coin token that you can save for the big turn when you topdeck 2 things. Is this too weak? Would it be op with +1 Action?

Spelunkers:

I've had this discard 3 to gain a Gold to hand thing floating around for a while, thought I'd try it on a reserve. Too boring? I like that it's tricky to incorporate in an engine because you have to discard at the start of turn. Probably would have to make sure it isn't broken in big money I guess, I doubt it is though. Seems really good to open with so I costed it at $5, is that reasonable? 

334
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Metropolis
« on: March 17, 2018, 03:57:21 pm »
Hi, I like some ideas here but think they need a little more work. Here's some random thoughts, sorry if they're incoherent or if I can't read and misunderstood something.

Defaced Coin: Yeah this is just like a bad Bonfire, I think it'd be better as a Silver for $3 or $4 to make it play a little differently. I'd probably like it if Bonfire didn't exist, but it's hard to compete with an Event because they don't take up a kingdom card slot.

Recycle: The "Re" prefix makes this sound like a Remodel variant. It's clever that this discards a card so it can still trash from the hand and also works with an empty discard. It's probably quite weak and I'm guessing that returning to the supply is a theme of the set errr yes it is I read the intro now. I'd prefer seeing things that actually have a reason to return things to the supply other than "it's the theme of the set" you know, like what Ambassador does.

Market Stall: Money! It's quite a lot of time until this becomes better than Silver. Oh it's supposed to get +$2 per empty? That seems a little better. Market cards are supposed to give +buy though so I'd suggest a name change.

Broker: Its just the top part of Market Square that makes endgame piling a nightmare to track, I don't know about that. Oh there's a new one, I think the thing with this is that the supply trashing ability is weak enough as to not really make the card stronger so if you really want it just staple it onto a simple-ish card you already have I'd say.

Shadow Council: Woop! Broken card! I think you're just underestimating how good Necropolis is to be honest. Like, just Necropolis for $3 would still be a good card that you would buy most of the time even though it's "strictly worse" than a bunch of other cards. You're going to buy these anyway because they give +2 Actions and then give out a bunch of Curses for almost no opportunity cost.

Hawkers Village: Oh there's a new one of these too, I actually have to read the thread eww. Eh I'm not sure about this, it's either a really bad village or a terminal Silver, in both cases making you discard a good card to draw a random card, which seems like a drawback. So it seems even worse than Necropolis as a village and worse than Silver as money.

Doomsayer: Shouldn't this give out Hexes? So a Fugitive that gains more Fugitives and then they become blanks, seems like it's broken with trash for benefit and useless without?

Penitents/Blessing: This does seem a little weak, like Blessing is strong- a super Masq! But having to take a Penitents with it is a downside and then Blessing also gives your opponent a hefty amount of free draw/trashing, I'm not sure it really needs that 2nd downside?

Extravaganza: Hmmmmm, this takes a while to build up but when it does the game will just end. I can see this leading to very degenerate games where you have to play around piles from really early in the game when there are gainers on the board. Like with a Workshop, once 3 piles get low enough one player will just be able to get them to 3 with workshops and then King everything but actually they can king more workshops and deplete more piles and then just like empty the supply and play everything 10 times. I don't know, seems like it'll lead to degenerate games pretty often. Also tracking nightmare.

Theatre Village: It's probably fine but maybe a bit similar to City? I'm not sure whether this 3 or fewer thing is sufficiently different from just counting empty piles to be worth the trouble.

Dismissal: Needs to let you look through your discard pile, like Hermit/Settlers and friends. Seems very strong, probably a little worse than Remake overall, but not that much worse at all, trashing from the discard is very good. Dismissing a Dismissal for a $5 is a little like Remaking a Remake too.

Inventor: I like this the most out of these self gaining things because it actually gives you something to do with the cards you're gaining and it isn't completely dead when they run out.

Banquet: Way too easy to break. Like even in an average engine this will easily make $10+ and it's useless outside of those decks. I think Horn of Plenty captures this concept in a much more reasonable way.

Merchants Pass: Ignoring rules questions, this is just Gold with 2 buys a lot of the time. I don't think the drawback will ever really come into play unless your building inefficiently anyway.

Poisoner: This is a weaker Sea hag that costs $5? I would only buy this if there was Apprentice or something.

Token of Fame: I'm usually buying $5 actions over Gold so I doubt I'd get this ever. Unless again there's a strong trash for benefit card.

Investor: Same again, I don't think this is a great concept anyway and even if it was do you really need more than 1 card that does it?

335
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Lets discuss hinterlands cards:tunnel
« on: March 16, 2018, 06:59:56 pm »
You can debate whether Tunnel should cost 3 or 4 but it is obvious why Donald didn't price it at 5: to not make it weaker than Duchy in Kingdoms without discarding.
it's got other functionality, even if it isn't usable, so i'm not sure THAT would have been enough.
In a world where gold was great to stuff your deck full of it, it might well have been worth 5$.

Quote
Yes they do... any card that doesn't give at least 1 card and 1 action when you play it clogs up your deck. No matter how good that card is, that's a true statement.
Did you intend to say "OR"? 
Is it your belief that festivals and counsel rooms clog up your deck?  If so, your definition of a clogged up deck seems...too broad to be useful.


No he meant and, and he actually has a good point. If its not a cantrip then it takes space in your hand. That's why I love cantrips so much. I almost always buy the actions that are cantrips more than any other action.

Right. I may be mistaken about how others use the term “stop cards” but I was thinking of it as anything where if you started your turn with nothing but that card in your hand, then that turn would not let you draw your deck. This applies to terminals and disappearing +action, though in different ways (a hand of 5 Festivals is way better than a hand of 5 terminals).

I believe when most people talk about stop cards people are just talking about cards that don't draw, it's useful to know how many stop cards are in your deck so you know how much draw you're going to need to do what you want.

336
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Extending the game
« on: March 16, 2018, 06:02:24 pm »
Play with Black Market, you can spend hours setting up the Black Market deck and then spend even longer playing a classic long winded Black Market game! It's never ending fun!

337
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« on: March 16, 2018, 05:58:12 pm »
The thing is, you already start the game with 7 Coppers in your deck so Coppersmith never really benefited much from gaining more Coppers. It was more important to be able to draw a bunch of Coppers with Coppersmiths and have +buy so you could spend all the money, no use getting $26 and only having 1 buy right? So things like Treasure Trove, Cache, etc. weren't actually very good with Coppersmith because they make it harder for you to line everything up.

338
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Meld
« on: March 16, 2018, 11:38:48 am »
Thanks! I think it still needs some balancing work, I'm sure I'll get around to it eventually.

Yeah that's a pretty good suggestion for the names actually, when I get around to tweaking these I'll probs change the names, too lazy right now though!

339
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« on: March 16, 2018, 07:28:54 am »
Card seems deece, expanding Estates is nice. $5 Remodels with benefit are relatively unexplored compared to a lot things.

An idea to "fix" Rebuild but keep it closer to what it was intended as I had was just to cap it at gaining Duchies, or Victory costing up to $5 to work with kingdom vp. So it can still dig out and upgrade estates but not drain the Province pie. 

340
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Revolution
« on: March 14, 2018, 07:49:10 pm »
Oh right yeah I totally misread Taskmaster, I thought you had to take Exhausted before you played another action but wouldn't be able to unless you had a village but I see now that you take it after you play another action, my bad! Look I do it too Asper!

I also forgot that collector gains a card but I'll forgive myself on that because Wanderers are a little confusing and there could totally be a more standard gaining one too.

341
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Revolution
« on: March 14, 2018, 03:18:58 pm »
Yo, I like these cards! Here's a few thoughts...

Barometer: This seems pretty weak to me, a terminal stop card that gives no immediate bonus has to be really powerful to be worth getting and I'm not sure this gets there. I think this really wants +1 action or +$1 or something.

Diversion: If I changed how Ice tokens worked to trigger off shuffles I'd probably use a state like this instead of tokens, so that's great. I'm not sure this should be a Chancellor itself though, I get that the idea is that it lets you get past diversions faster but I think it's pretty easy to do that anyway and it kind of just trivialises the attack, maybe?

Local Art: Wanderers come from miles around to see the local art! A lot of the Wanderers seem like they wouldn't be as helpful during the buy phase as they are for your opponents so I'm not sure about that, maybe the Wanderers don't affect other players when played with this? That could be neat. There are few problems I have with certain Wanderers too, maybe I'll get to that later.

Purist: A treasure-action being a purist is strange to me, but I guess he wants a pure deck of either all actions or all treasures or maybe it's a bronze dude or something? +4 actions is a lot of actions, whoo boy! It's probably balanced at $4 - Port basically gives +3 actions and +1 card, but it does add a ton of +actions to the game so it lets you build really big. The treasure part seems much weaker, it's basically a bad Peddler. I guess it means you can open this with Silver and it'll be good on the first shuffle before transitioning into a big Necropolis, I think the top of this is good enough on it's own though.

Taskmaster: Exhausted means this basically does nothing if there's no village right? And it's basically a throne room with +1 card when it works? I don't know, I think it needs a way to always do something. Am I understanding it right?


Err what was up with the wanderers? Oh yeah the courier seems like a bad thing to have in the game, I don't think a single spy effect is enough to make this not miserable for someone often enough. I think it needs either a much bigger search space or to be from hand or be something else. I don't think any current wanderers gain cards, that could be an okay replacement? Fits the messenger like theme too so could keep the same name. I also feel like Warband should be 5 or more cards, randomly taking people down to a 2 card hand occasionally doesn't seem like much fun to me, I can't really see the benefit of it. That's just a small tweak though.

342
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 14, 2018, 11:15:13 am »
Yeah no worries, I hope I wasn't too defensive there, I really appreciate all the great feedback you give!

I did realise Sleigh was just a kind of over complicated Journey token thing, Idol wording means that they don't carry over between turns but it's much simpler so maybe that's worth the loss. I was just trying to get fancy with reserves to be honest.

343
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 14, 2018, 06:07:37 am »
Ice Queening a Hireling looks as if it could potentially be strong.

With the current wording it's identical to Throne Room due to lose-track, isn't it?
Ice Queen would still get discarded at cleanup and you'd get the Hireling back after ages and have +2 cards each turn so it's pretty good yeah. I don't think there's any losing track involved.

I feel the current Mountain Outpost is an improvement.
Igloo is a tad similar to Royal Seal, but at first glance it seems fine.
I feel Outrider has the issue that Donald described about his attempts at buy-reserves: You call it just to get it back.
Sleigh now reminds me of my failed "Barkeep" concept. IIsn't it just so that all Sleighs in your deck -1 ARE Labs? You'll just try to get as many of this as you can, I'm afraid.
I'm not sure how I feel about rediscover. It kinda feels like the type of card you could get away with doing as a Night type, especially as I think it being a cantrip is rather generous. If I'm not mistaken, you can call it to remodel itself.

Mountain Outpost- Sweet, seems clear to me that you'd buy 2 Mountain Outposts and the rest Smithies if they're both available.

Igloo: Seems more comparable to Tracker than Seal no?

Outrider: I think you're wrong about this for 2 reasons. 1. Outrider stinks, why the hell am I trying to get a non-terminal Survivors back into my deck? 2. Frozen Wilderness is an incentive to save up buys. I mean it still might not work, but I'm never calling this unless I need the +buy.

Sleigh: No, it's got that tortured wording so that this isn't the case. 1st Sleigh goes to Tavern mat, 2nd doesn't because one is already there, then you can call the 1st, then the 3rd would go to the mat and so on. I mean I'm normally trying to get as many Chariot Races or Wishing Wells or Villages or whatever as possible so i don't think that's a problem? It's just the nature of cantrip cards really?

Rediscover: Still needs more of a rethink, I'm defo not adding nights to this set and it doesn't need to be a night so no night! It should say another or even non-Rediscover to stop that yeah.

344
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 13, 2018, 03:51:50 pm »
So I was thinking that this set really could do with 1 more mechanic to round it out if it wants to be a large expansion. I was trying out States but I feel like having a million cards with all these States flying around isn't ideal, so I think there's only really a place for like 3-4 State cards. Reserves are popular and kinda fit with the delayed theme of Ice and Coin tokens too so I thought I'd try some reserves.

Here's some existing cards tweaked to be reserves, some are slight tweaks and others are basically entirely new cards just filling the same spot in the set.

Mountain Outpost

As a duration this was a little weak, but it seemed nice after adding a when-gain chancellor effect. This reserve version doesn't have room for the chancellor thing but it has the benefit of being a reserve so it could be good enough still.  Do you prefer this or the duration version?

Igloo

I was never really happy with the wording of Igloo but this reserve version has no issues. Setting aside non-ice token cards isn't ideal in a set full of ice token cards but the cards won't be set aside for long so this isn't too bad. There was a suggestion that this was strong as a duration and this reserve version is even stronger, but it's a terminal Silver, I mean they have to be strong to be worth buying.

Outrider

Outrider was kinda poop so this is basically strictly better, I still find the wildernesses compelling. We don't have a +buy on reserve and this lets you stock them up to trigger the wilderness flip so it seems like a fitting upgrade to me. Maybe it's a little strong now and can lose the Survivors effect.

Sleigh

Sleigh had bad wording and didn't seem well received to begin with so it's been a bit of a placeholder for a while now. This is supposed to be a half-lab basically, which seems reasonable to me. I think the wording makes that work? It's kind of a shame that this can't have simpler wording, or maybe it can?

Rediscover

Still a remodel variant, this might be a bit too powerful? It can't trash Estates but it's still basically adding $2's worth of value to your deck as a cantrip, it could work at $6, which is fine because there's room at $6 and there aren't any $6 reserves (Teacher doesn't count  :P) lowering the increase to +$1 and letting this trash Coppers makes it too similar to Upgrade for me. Or maybe it's actually fine at $5?

345
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Why Dominion Sucks!
« on: March 12, 2018, 04:41:16 pm »
I'm not discounting it because of your rating, I'm discounting it because I don't agree. I just looked up your rating to get an idea of how you've been approaching the game.
Discounting an opinion because you disagree with it isn't any better. But if you want an idea how I approach the game: My current way of getting kingdoms I like against decent opponents is to resign automatches until I like a kingdom. Resigning half my games before turn 1 makes my rating pretty meaningless.

You're the one who first used the term "discounting" I was merely mirroring what you said, please don't make this into another wasted thread by going on meaningless tangents like that, nobody is interested.

Okay so you play rated games because your irl opponents aren't good enough or whatever, but you resign most of your games so your rating is lower than it should be... so your rated opponents aren't going to be very good either, that doesn't seem at all logical to me.

And let me say one more time that I don't mind that you'd prefer to play seeded boards than full random, I just think you're wrong to blame Silver and Gold on that.

346
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Why Dominion Sucks!
« on: March 12, 2018, 03:41:56 pm »
Silver/Gold are the reason it's possible to play any random board. If random boards were impossible, the game would've had to ship with standard ways to seed a board, which I think would be a positive difference by itself, and have positive knock-on effects on how cards were designed. Tacking on a board-seeding system now, to get away from random rated, would be nice but not as good.

But if we're at the point where my opinion is discounted because of my rating, the discussion is probably over.

I'm not discounting it because of your rating, I'm discounting it because I don't agree. I just looked up your rating to get an idea of how you've been approaching the game.

The game could have shipped with a board-seeding system even with Silver and Gold, all that removing Silver and Gold would do is make random boards "unplayable" more often (I actually think they'd still be playable at least 60% of the time with all expansions- and that's a very conservative estimate). Silver and Gold just aren't all that important in your average game of Dominion.

347
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Why Dominion Sucks!
« on: March 12, 2018, 02:17:19 pm »
Gold and Silver don't stop you from designing kingdoms though.

As someone who plays exclusively rated automatch

If you want to play designed kingdoms you should uh stop playing exclusively rated automatch.



To actually add something to the discussion though, looking at your rating and considering how most people around that level play, it seems likely to me that you just aren't considering/exploiting a lot of the subtle interactions and such that exist between cards given that you're of the opinion that:
card design would have to favor cards that fit with all kinds of other cards, and disfavor cards that make bad to buy other kingdom cards.
Because cards are designed to be played with each other anyway so I don't really think anything would be different. Obviously not liking full random anyway and wanting partially seeded boards or whatever is fine, but Silver/Gold aren't the reason for this; as others have already said, at high level play Gold is only really bought under specific conditions which aren't particularly common and Silver is usually just bought as a means to hit $5.

348
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Why Dominion Sucks!
« on: March 12, 2018, 11:27:22 am »
Gold and Silver don't stop you from designing kingdoms though.

349
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Labs
« on: March 11, 2018, 09:09:37 pm »
Stables - I was definitely confused to see this higher than Lab in the new list. It's better than Lab if you can't trash your Coppers, but most of the time you can and should. The fact that this relies on treasures gives two ways it can dud: You can either draw a hand with all treasures or draw Stables with no treasures. Lab's consistency will beat it most of the time, I think.

I think part of the reason here is that Stables is much better than Lab in the early/mid-game when you are still building and trashing down. It cycles you much faster and will pretty much never dud early on. You shouldn't evaluate a card solely by how good it is in an already smoothly running engine.


Stable is kind of stupid. It's the same thing as laboratory but you get rid of a good card

Except in the case when you get rid of a bad card.

Or in the case when you have no get riddable cards.

350
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 11, 2018, 07:21:56 pm »
How about having Ice Queen be a Throne Room that can King's Court instead at the cost of freezing the card? Although probably that could just as well be trashing, maybe? But if trashing would be too weak, freezing seems like an ideal way to make up for it. Like:

Quote
Ice Queen, 5$, Action
You may play an Action card from your hand twice. You may set it aside with 3 Ice tokens on iit to play it a third time.

I did briefly think about some kind of icy kings court but I thought I'd try something different instead. To be honest I was kind of ill when I came up with Ice Queen, I might just scrap it.

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