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« on: July 27, 2022, 11:25:42 pm »
So, I decided to try my own hand at this and make starting cards for the set that for reason was ignored... Intrigue!
Cupbearer
Action - Agent - $1
Choose one: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1 or +1 Buy.
Escape Tunnel
Reaction - Agent - $1
When you trash or discard a card, you may trash this
from your hand to put that card in your hand.
Hidden Estate
Victory - Agent - $3
Worth 1 VP for every 2 card types in your deck, rounded down.
And now, onto the judging.
Forsaken Manor/Abandoned Church/Old Bridge by AJL828
Forsaken Manor looks fun and satisfying to trash. I’m not sure about the other two, though. There aren’t that many things that can trigger Abandoned Church, and Old Bridge’s effect is maybe too game-warping for a starting card. Also, I don’t think these fit that well with Renaissance. Renaissance’s main themes were Coffers and Villagers, which aren’t used at all here.
Passages by NoMoreFun
Oh, wow, these are really different! Basically you can choose whether you want +1 Action, +$1 or +1 Buy at the start of your turn for the rest of the game. That’s an interesting strategic choice to make. I don’t think these work that well as starting cards, though. Getting powerful effects like a guaranteed +1 Action every turn is more fun when you can work up to it instead of getting it right away. These cards also barely end up affecting your deck differently since they git rid of themselves, and then two of them just end up being Estates anyway.
Hibernation Cave/Remote Lake/Wild Pasture by emtzalex
You proved me wrong! Shelters CAN be thematic for something other than Dark Ages. Onto the cards themselves. The most obvious way to get rid of Hibernation Cave is with a Horse… oh, and look, Wild Pasture gives you a Horse when you trash it! Very clever! I do worry about the luck-based aspect of this interaction if there’s no other way to gain Horses. But the fact that Horse increases your hand size reduces the luck at least. Remote Lake is very neat. The fact that Exiling is an expansion-specific mechanic is sort of a problem, but still, this is a great use of it. Oh, and Wild Pasture really doesn’t need to be a Treasure; I think it would be fine as a pure Shelter type. Still, I think you did a great job with these. I like how simple they are, and they tie in with Menagerie’s themes very well.
Cottage/Lodge/Manor by Builder_Roberts
So yeah, since Prosperity is sort of the opposite of Dark Ages, replacing your Estates with $3 cards instead of $1 is an obvious thing to think of. At least, it was obvious to me when I thought of this contest. I like Cottage a lot. It’s something that can sometimes be useful, but that you usually wouldn’t want to buy and would often be happy to trash. And it’s thematic by being a Treasure, and it helps you hit Prosperity’s high price points. Well done. I think Lodge is too easy to get rid of; having the trashing only work on Treasure-gaining was thematic but I agree that it had issues as buying a Silver is boring and often weak, so I’m not sure how I would fix it. And Manor… to be honest, I liked the original Manor better. The +VP was very on-theme, while gaining a $7 card feels too good for a starting card.
Faerie Tree/Hanging Tree/Shaman Hut by Xen3k
I don’t think it would ever be worth it to hang on to Faerie Tree for the Boons, so that just makes it a more expensive Estate if you can get rid of it. With Hanging Tree, I don’t really like the idea of Attack starting cards; I think attacks are something you should have to buy. Shaman Hut is another card that isn’t worth hanging on to for the later bonus, so it’ll just end up trashing itself immediately, which isn’t very interesting. I think overall these are too complicated for starting cards.
Broker/Stall/Gatehouse by xyz123
I like Broker. It’s like Cursed Gold but way less annoying. Cursed Gold takes up a starting Copper so you either have to use it and take a Curse or start with less $. Broker avoids this by replacing an Estate instead, and it only gives you Debt which is always temporary. Stall is definitely the weak link here; I think I’d prefer something more exciting, though this still somewhat fits thematically because of Forum. Gatehouse is cool; I think if Stall were more interesting it would in turn make Gatehouse even better. The main problem I have with these is their prices; a puny $1 doesn’t fit thematically with Empires.
Savings/Benefactor/Ancestral Home by 4est
I feel that Savings sort of negates the purpose of Debt. The whole point of the mechanic is that you have to pay it back later, but Savings says, nope, you kinda don’t! I like Benefactor; getting VP for taking on Debt seems fun, though it’s unfortunate that it won’t get much use. Ancestral Home, well, I already shared my opinion on Attack starting cards; I don’t like them. I think if I could combine this with the previous entry, Broker/Benefactor/Gatehouse would be my ideal starting cards for Empires.
Lakeside/Mountainside/Riverside by Augie279
Lakeside is maybe a bit too complicated, but it’s still a cool response to Necropolis. Mountainside is boring and unthematic. Riverside is a good use of the Tavern Mat. Replace Mountainside and you have some decent starting cards for Adventures.
Flower Stand/Savings/Seaside Shanty by CaptainReklaw
Flower Stand and Savings are great; they’re simple and on-theme (+Buy is maybe not completely a Guilds theme, but it helps you spend your Coffers, which is a Guilds theme). Seaside Shanty offers interesting choices, but I am somewhat worried about the possibility of endless arms races with it. It would be worth it to playtest with it to find the right proportion of Coffers to VP. At least the fact that you only have one of them puts a cap on the power. I would definitely get rid of the -1 VP part and make it a Victory card, though.
Apiary/Honey/Flower Fields by Dubdubdubdub
The main purpose of Apiary besides the +Actions seems to be activating Menagerie, though I suppose it could also help with Harvest. I think it could be more thematic. Honey is worth keeping around if you really want deck diversity, but I don’t think it’s worth it if you’re trying to get the $, since it’s just a crummy Silver. Maybe it should give +$3 instead. Flower Fields is good. I like the basic idea of these, but Apiary and Honey need some work.
Compass/Tavern/Hut by segura
Compass and Tavern are great, being simple and on-theme. As you said yourself, Hut is the crazy one. I do like the general idea of being able to rotate piles. But being able to block someone from gaining a card in the beginning seems really annoying. I think it’s probably too wacky for a starting card.
Old Estate/Abandoned Village/Old Barn by Joxeft
The main problem with these is that they’re not thematic to Menagerie. Old Barn has Exiling, which is thematic, but then it also has VP tokens, which is not a Menagerie mechanic. I think Old Barn could work if the VP part is dropped. The others need changes to fit in better with the set.
Hay Farmer/Animal Trader/Rancher by scott_pilgrim
Rancher is too strong; getting an extra lab from every Horse you play seems totally bonkers to me. Hay Farmer and Animal Trader are cool. I like how Hay Farmer encourages you to keep Animal Trader around until you’ve saved up some Horses. If there are other ways to gain Horses though, I suspect the correct move is to go ahead and trash Animal Trader immediately, which is boring. I would try to fix this.
Stir/Booth/Ingredients by Chappy7
Stir: yes, yes! Finally a way to make Potion costs less awkward. Ingredients also makes Potion costs less awkward by providing +Buy, which is nice. I think it could be simplified, though. I’m not sure about Booth. I think it will just end up being the same as Vineyard. After all, the only non-Action Potion-cost cards are Vineyard itself and Philosopher’s Stone. What if it instead gave you VP for each differently named Treasure in your deck? That would be another way to encourage people to get Potions.
Martyr/Brigand/Warden by Jonasssss
OK, so at first glance, I thought maybe these were too complicated for starting cards. But then, after looking at them some more, I really like all the subtle interactions between them. I don’t think any of them are too strong; you’ll still want to trash them a lot of the time. Overall, I think these would give a different, fun experience.
Night Mayor/Ombudsman/Bodygardener by spineflu
I like the general idea of these. Night Mayor gives a good Night ability that’s weak but still useful, though I worry about the advantage it gives to the player who draws it on turn 1 instead of turn 2. Ombudsman and Bodygardener will mitigate the annoying part of Boons/Hexes while offering interesting choices. The main problem is that Boons and Hexes both have to be present in the game (not likely in full random) if both want to avoid feeling sad. I don't know if there's a simple way to address these problems.
Alchemical Still/Extract/Forlorn Tower by Firestix
Alchemical Still and Forlorn Tower are good Alchemy versions of Hovel and Overgrown Estate. I also like Extract; it’s there for you if you want that one Transmute. I don’t think these should be $0, though, they’re all clearly worth more than that. Other than that, I like them.
Ascetic/Copycat/Novice by X-tra
Oh, wow, I didn’t even think of somebody trying to do this for the promos! Props for trying something totally crazy. Obviously, the first issue that comes up is, what is the “theme” of the promos? Well I guess if there is a theme, it’s adding more cards to the game, so adding another pile of cards to the Kingdom works for that. I like the way Copycat and Novice work in general, and Novice’s Reaction fits well since two of the Promos can give you Golds (Governor and Dismantle). The one I don’t get is Ascetic. How does punishing you for having $5 cards fit with the Promos, especially since the additional pile you’re adding is $5 cards?
Signpost/Roadside Inn/Empty Cave by Faust
Signpost is basically the opposite of Overgrown Estate. Overgrown Estate is worth nothing and rewards you for trashing it; Signpost is worth something and punishes you for trashing it. Could be annoying. Interesting idea though. I like Roadside Inn a lot; it gives you a way to get rid of it for a price, but then it uses the Tavern Mat to potentially come back and be useful. Empty Cave is also very nice; Events are in more than one set so it will get a fair amount of use. A lot of cheap Events already come with +Buy, but there are still some that feel like they need this so this is a good idea I think.
Dry Moat/Sundial/Beggar’s Feast by gototogo
So, the reason I excluded the Base set is because the Base set is all about simplicity, and nothing is simpler than 3 Estates. Still, I’ll give my opinion of these. Dry Moat and Sundial change your opening $ in a huge way, which I don’t think fits well in the Base set. As far as I know, the first card that changed your opening $ was Baker, which wasn’t introduced until Guilds. These cards, though, change your opening $ even more than Baker. In fact, they give such large amounts of $ that they probably break the game’s balance. Definitely not a good fit for Base. Beggar’s Feast is more along the lines of what I’d expect for base starting cards. I like the fact that you kept these simple, but I think two of them definitely don’t work as starting cards for Base.
Honorable Mentions: Broker/Stall/Gatehouse by xyz123, Flower Stand/Savings/Seaside Shanty by CaptainReklaw, Compass/Tavern/Hut by segura, Martyr/Brigand/Warden by Jonasssss, Alchemical Still/Extract/Forlorn Tower by Firestix
Runner-up: Signpost/Roadside Inn/Empty Cave by faust
Winner: Hibernation Cave/Remote Lake/Wild Pasture by emtzalex
