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1376

Rules Questions / What does Enchantress and Royal Carriage do?

« on: September 28, 2018, 02:38:57 pm »

We know that Enchantress doesn't change the actual play ability on the Enchanted card.

We know that Royal Carriage/Ghost/Citadel can replay the Enchanted card for its play ability.

But how can Royal Carriage do that?

I thought that Enchantress makes you get +1 Card and +1 Action instead of resolving the play ability of the Enchanted card. I also thought that Royal Carriage triggers after you resolve the play ability of an Action card. But the Enchanted action card's play ability was never resolved.

I guess my understanding of either Enchantress or Royal Carriage is wrong.

Enchantress: Could it be that the play ability is changed after all, not on the card, but for this play of the card? So that somehow, when you do "+1 Card and +1 Action", that counts as having resolved the card's play ability? I struggle to see how that can be correct.

Royal Carriage: Maybe the timing is not "after you resolve the play ability", but "after you finish playing", just like the card says. The Enchanted card was played, after all. So you play an Action card, then any Reactions etc. trigger, then you resolve the play ability (or not, if it's Enchanted), then you're finished playing it. Now Royal Carriage triggers. This seems more likely. The rulebook actually says that it's "after resolving a played Action card", but of course this just covers the normal cases.

1377

Rules Questions / Re: What do Sewers and Tomb do when you trash multiple cards?

« on: September 28, 2018, 10:53:08 am »

Right, it's in the rulebooks that when you trash several cards, "when-trash" stuff is resolved afterwards.

1378

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer

« on: September 27, 2018, 05:08:53 pm »

Small question: Key interacts with Outpost, but not with Guide, have I understood that correctly?

Yes, "drawing your hand" only happens in Clean-up. So Outpost, Expedition, and now Key Flag.

1379

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer

« on: September 27, 2018, 03:57:44 pm »

River's Gift can make you draw a card at the end of somebody else's turn. You don't do that when capturing the flag during an opponent's turn. (It could (would have to) be phrased "at the end of your turns" of course.)

Right, thanks. River's Gift would have to be phrased something like "the next time you are at the end of your turn", or better, "the next time you draw your hand".

1380

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer

« on: September 27, 2018, 02:03:58 pm »

Actually, I wasn't aware that "drawing your hand" was a term with a specific definition. It obviously has to apply to drawing a new hand of cards during Clean-up. It probably doesn't apply to mid-turn discard-your-hand-and-draw effects (Guide, Minion, Scholar). But what about drawing after Donate?

Outpost says: "you only draw 3 cards for your next hand", and Expedition says: "Draw 2 extra cards for your next hand". The rulebook refers to "draw a new hand" as what you do during Clean-up. So apparently "draw hand", (and variously "draw new hand", "draw next hand") is the term applied only to the drawing of your hand in the Clean-up phase.

Donate happens after Clean-up (after your turn). So if you had Flag and bought Donate, you would have six cards in hand, then perform Donate, then draw 5 cards.

Yes, this is the only possible interpretation, otherwise Minion and Scholar would be affected by Outpost played earlier in the turn, which is not the case. (There's no difference between the "+x cards" on Minion, Scholar and Donate. But back to the original question:

Is Flag essentially the same as The River's Gift (+1 Card at the end of this turn), but worded differently (besides The River's Gift being one-shot)?

It's not technically the same, because Flag (like Outpost and Expedition) happens in Clean-up, while The River's Gift happens afterwards. But I don't think that there are any cards currently that can make that distinction matter. So I think for practical purposes it's the same. (The only cards that do anything at the same time as River's Gift are: Baths, Possession [return trashed cards], Necromancer [unflip cards in trash], Save and Faithful Hound.)

1381

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #3: Villain, Ducat, Silk Merchant

« on: September 27, 2018, 12:59:06 pm »

You did increase your hand size though, albeit by only one card:

Hand of W, X, Y, Z, Sculptor. No coffers or Villagers. 1 action, 1 buy.
Play Sculptor, gaining Silk Merchant to hand. Hand is now W, X, Y, Z, Silk Merchant. No coffers, no Villagers. No actions, 1 buy.
Silk Merchant on-gain triggers. 1 coffers, 1 Villager.
Spend Villager to play Silk Merchant, getting +2 cards and +1 buy. Hand is now W, X, Y, Z, A, B. 1 Coffers, no Villagers. No actions, 2 buys.

Not the most effective use of Sculptor by any means, but hey, maybe you really needed that buy to close out the game with a double province or a three pile

Right, I calculated wrong, you increase your hand by 1. As you say, not great, but not terrible.

1382

Rules Questions / Re: List of weird or potentially unintuitive rules interactions

« on: September 27, 2018, 12:28:49 pm »

You will find many in the document in my sig.

1383

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #3: Villain, Ducat, Silk Merchant

« on: September 26, 2018, 11:35:55 pm »

Silk Merchant: Stronger than it looks. It's pretty great with TFB, and it's also nice with Sculptor.

How? It replaces itself and Sculptor by using up its own Villager. For the turn you haven't increased your hand size, only got 1 Coffers token and a Buy. And the Sculptor is now more like a Moat (unless you plan on trashing it).

1384

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #3: Villain, Ducat, Silk Merchant

« on: September 26, 2018, 07:37:09 pm »

So Ducat kind of means "Coin with the duke's face on it". Heh.

1385

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #3: Villain, Ducat, Silk Merchant

« on: September 26, 2018, 01:28:38 pm »

It's a bit unfortunate that it's inconsistent with all other +'es, including Villagers. "+1 Coffers and +1 Villager". So you take one... thing... and add it to your Coffers, and then you take a Villager. So the Coin token directly represents a Villager in the latter case, and represents something undefined in the former case - we just know that it goes to your Coffers.

1386

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter

« on: September 25, 2018, 03:51:07 pm »

Played a game where I had the following cards in my last turn (and the actions to play them). I had drawn my deck.

Tournament, Recruiter, Princess, Priest, Gold, Silver, Diadem.

Which cards should I play and/or trash to maximize coins? I think I figured it out.

To maximize coins specifically, or maximize purchasing power? If you want to maximize coins, you should probably trash Princess with Priest....

Right, what I meant was maximize purchasing power. Trashing the Princess is not going to be the right move, and we can actually ignore the Princess.

1387

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter

« on: September 25, 2018, 03:40:30 pm »

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.

Yes, this doesn't seem that far-fetched. We already have a situation where it matters that a Pirate Ship or Minion player chooses what to do after the other players choose their Reactions. In this case, it's clear that you can spend the Villager token before playing (or not playing) another Torturer. But you're not spending it in the middle of resolving an Action, so it doesn't really touch on my question, I think.

1388

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter

« on: September 25, 2018, 02:48:59 pm »

So when does it actually matter that you can spend Villager tokens even in the middle of resolving an Action card? I guess it has to be with Diadem being played with Black Market, since you don't know what you'll draw from the BM deck. With Storyteller + Diadem you can just spend the tokens before playing Storyteller. But with Storyteller + Venture hitting Diadem, it matters. I don't know if there are any other situations.

1389

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter

« on: September 25, 2018, 02:08:13 pm »

Played a game where I had the following cards in my last turn (and the actions to play them). I had drawn my deck.

Tournament, Recruiter, Princess, Priest, Gold, Silver, Diadem.

Which cards should I play and/or trash to maximize coins? I think I figured it out.

1390

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter

« on: September 25, 2018, 12:38:47 pm »

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.

Yes, this was the first thing I thought. I think it could be the strongest 5/2 opening in the game, with the possible exception of Mountebank.

1391

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread

« on: September 24, 2018, 08:21:33 am »

Right, thanks, the first 12 times. I actually only calculated 11, the correct probability is even less - 0.04%!

I think you have an extra zero in there. I calculate 0.414%, or once every 242 games.

I did notice another mistake. I had included the turn when they missed. So now I get 0.075%.

I calculated the chances of each of the 12 hits: 32%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 43%, 33%, 71%, 69%, 71%, 69%, 65%. And then I multiplied them. I don't know how our calculations differed.

I get 32%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 67%, 67%, 71%, 69%, 71%, 69%, 65%. So it seems you go wrong somewhere in the middle with 57%, 43% and 33% replacing the two 67%'s (from the 7/17's). You also only had 11 hits, not 12 -- the 12th line you listed was the first miss.

Ok, you're right, I put in the wrong numbers for turn 12 and 13. I don't know how I did that. But there were 12 hits, not 11, since my opponent hit twice on turn 13!
The correct percentages are: 32%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 67%, 67%, 67%, 71%, 69%, 71%, 69%, 65%. This makes the probability 0.28%, once in every 361 games.

1392

Rules Questions / Re: Anything needed for Empires?

« on: September 20, 2018, 11:50:00 am »

Some clarifications that may or may not be too obscure to include in the rules:

If you use Prince or Ghost to play Crown at the start of your turn, you’re in your Action phase at that point.

Any extra turns are resolved after Donate/Mountain Pass.

Enchantress 1: The play ability is not actually changed on the Action card; rather the player gets +1 Card and +1 Action instead of resolving it. So they can call Royal Carriage to replay the Action and this time resolve its play ability. Similarly, Ghost will resolve the card’s play ability the second time it plays it. If the played card is a Duration, Ghost/Royal Carriage stays in play.

Enchantress 2: If you play Enchantress several times, the other players still only get +1 Card and +1 Action: Only the first Enchantress replaces what the players do; Enchantresses after that make no difference.

Enchantress 3: If one of your opponents gets an extra turn, the first Action played on that turn will also be Enchanted. (The rulebook says "just on their next turn", which is normally true, but not in this case.)

Enchantress 4: Timing - If a player plays an Enchanted Attack card, Reactions and Urchin will trigger first, as normal.

1393

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread

« on: September 20, 2018, 10:28:45 am »

Right, thanks, the first 12 times. I actually only calculated 11, the correct probability is even less - 0.04%!

I think you have an extra zero in there. I calculate 0.414%, or once every 242 games.

I did notice another mistake. I had included the turn when they missed. So now I get 0.075%.

I calculated the chances of each of the 12 hits: 32%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 43%, 33%, 71%, 69%, 71%, 69%, 65%. And then I multiplied them. I don't know how our calculations differed.

1394

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread

« on: September 19, 2018, 11:13:45 am »

Looks like they just hit the first 12 times, right? 12 times in 24 turns.  Still, pretty crazy.

Right, thanks, the first 12 times. I actually only calculated 11, the correct probability is even less - 0.04%!

1395

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread

« on: September 19, 2018, 12:34:37 am »

A game with no trashing, my opponent went for knights, I went for Mountebanks.

Here is every time they played a Knight until the 25th turn, and how many trashable cards I had in my deck out of the total count:

turn 4 - 2/12 - hit Silver
turn 7 - 5/15 - hit Mountebank
turn 8 - 5/15 - hit Silver
turn 10 - 5/15 - hit Dame Anna
turn 12 - 7/17 - hit Haunted Woods
turn 13 - 7/17 - hit Silver and Mountebank
turn 18 - 9/20 - hit Changeling
turn 20 - 9/21 - hit Bazaar
turn 22 - 10/22 - hit Haunted Woods
turn 23 - 9/21 - hit Mountebank
turn 24 - 8/20 - hit Mountebank
turn 25 - 7/20 - first miss!

(Even with that extreme luch, they had no chance. They resigned soon after, because they had a deck full of curses.)


I calculated the probabilty of hitting the first 24 times as 0.13%!
I calculated the probabilty of hitting the first 12 times as 0.04% 0.075% 0.28%!

1396

Rules Questions / Re: Pilgrimage With Split Piles

« on: September 18, 2018, 09:56:52 am »

How is this an edge case? You need to have copies of Plunder and Encampment in your deck already in order to be able to choose them...

They are actually in your opponents deck. You bought Pilgrimage while Possessing them.

Wow, I just realized how big of a jerk your opponent has to be in this edge case. Because you would actually be playing IRL.

1397

Rules Questions / Re: Pilgrimage With Split Piles

« on: September 17, 2018, 11:47:25 pm »

Edge case: you remembered after choosing your 3 cards, but before gaining them, that Wolf Den was in the game, and your opponent is a jerk who don't allow undos for any reason.

FTFY

1398

Rules Questions / Re: Pilgrimage With Split Piles

« on: September 17, 2018, 07:09:04 pm »

Yeah, I don't think there are other cards like this, where you choose several cards first, then gain them. But Dz is right; you choose the order. So it would be dumb to choose to gain Plunder before Encampment.

1399

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Dominion: Renaissance on RGG's website

« on: September 14, 2018, 07:22:04 pm »

There will at some point also be Coffers tokens, that can be used at any time for +1 Coffers. So now we know why it was changed to "+1 Coffers".

1400

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread

« on: September 13, 2018, 03:44:48 pm »

A game with no trashing.

I had 7 Ironmongers, 9 Sages and 4 Groundskeepers. I also had 2 Bridge Trolls and 2 Goons that I wanted to play.

26 of my 38 cards were Actions at game end!

Not once did I get a +action from Ironmonger that I was able to use. If I got several Bridge Trolls and/or Goons in hand, Ironmonger never gave me +1 Action. In hands with only one terminal, I got lots and lots of useless +actions.

I lost.