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1126

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Innovation / Skulk interaction

« on: April 19, 2019, 01:24:24 pm »

Well, your hand, just like the trash pile, is an unordered pile of visible cards - unlike your discard pile and deck.

1127

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Innovation / Skulk interaction

« on: April 18, 2019, 06:22:17 pm »

Ah, theory of relativity messing up Dominion rules as usual.

But no, lose track has always applied to being covered up as much as to literal movement.

I know that the rule specifies that it also applies to covering up cards. What I meant was that you could perfectly well view this as merely a clarification. "The bottom of the pile", "the top of the pile", "position x from the top/bottom of the pile" are defined locations in Dominion. Covering up a card changes this defined position. Actually I always took this as the reason why it's lost track of. If it's considered to have the same position only with a card on top of it, I don't see why the rule couldn't just be that it's not lost track of.

1128

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Innovation / Skulk interaction

« on: April 18, 2019, 04:18:36 pm »

Is this always a thing? Card A looses track of card B because another card goes on top, even if card B doesn't move?

You could say that card B did move, because it doesn't have the same location anymore, on top of the pile.

1129

Rules Questions / Re: Necromancing a Mining Village?

« on: April 14, 2019, 02:32:45 pm »

Actually the rules for Necromancer also clarifies this, from the Nocturne rulebook:

Necromancer can be used on a card that trashes itself when played; if the card checks to see if it was trashed (such as Pixie), it was not, but if the card does not check (such as Tragic Hero), it will function normally.

1130

Rules Questions / Re: Trashing an Estate for Pirate Ship

« on: April 09, 2019, 09:54:47 pm »

Or Inherit Crown, with cost reduction.

1131

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)

« on: April 06, 2019, 12:39:44 pm »

The artist's intent is one thing, but honestly, if this is about visibility, I'm not sure we should count cards where the gender is not visible. I know now that Tormentor is a woman, but I wouldn't have without this thread.

Fair point. Of course to me Tormentor seemed like a woman when I studied it, but then again, so did Devil's Workshop. But in any case I think I'll just go with what is known here.

I just changed Devil's Workshop from female to male and updated the latest two lists.

1132

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)

« on: April 04, 2019, 07:55:58 pm »

Not so sure about the headdress. I assumed it was a coif with a pillbox hat or a hat with a wide band. Something like this picture of Dante (who I'm pretty sure is male!)
https://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/a/andrea/castagno/2_famous/7dante.html

Okay, I concede that it's not as straight-forward as I thought. But I still don't think that the kind of bag hat that Dante is wearing is the same as on Market. To me it looks like the Market person is wearing a fillet, which was typically worn by women.

1133

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)

« on: April 04, 2019, 03:32:29 pm »

Tormentor is a woman. Devil's Workshop is a man. Time does not permit looking them all up for you.

Thanks. The one I'm most curious about is Flag Bearer. (After that, Skulk.)

I'm not sure why Market is listed as "both". If that figure with the money is supposed to be female it's clearly not doing the job, lol. That card is truly a wasted opportunity.

I'm quite sure that frightening creature with the purse is a woman. The headdress gives it away.

1134

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)

« on: April 04, 2019, 10:53:42 am »

I think all Bard, Donate, Devil's Workshop and Tormentor are ambiguous. I mean, they could be women, but I wouldn't say they have to.

Zooming in on Bard and looking at the face and hands, I have no doubt that it's a woman. The others are less clear. I think my decision for Tormentor was based on what seems like breasts.

Maybe Donald can shed some light on Tormentor and Devil's Workshop? Others that maybe were based on instructions could be Plan, Wild Hunt, Skulk, Flag Bearer, Hideout and Barracks.

1135

Rules Questions / Re: Idol Count during Resolution

« on: April 03, 2019, 08:29:09 pm »

You're right that this isn't spelled out anywhere for Idol. For someone who isn't used to Dominion's clear and literal card abilities - especially considering how common it is in games that the rules are written in a fuzzy way and you have to deduce the meaning - it's understandable that the way Idol is worded could make you think that you first play all your Idols before you resolve them.

But the way every card works in Dominion, is that you play it, then you resolve it. You don't wait until you've played other cards in-between. Idol is no different. You do exactly as the card says when you play it. It's also important to keep this in mind with other cards and interactions, or you will get several things wrong.

1136

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)

« on: April 03, 2019, 12:50:23 pm »

By what evidence do you claim the person in the foreground of Barracks is male? And are all the people in the background also male?

The blurry people in the background don't matter; see the description of my criteria above.

But good question about the foreground person. There's at least one other card like that - Arena. I was mainly going by what most artists would intend to be portraying with a person in armor from medieval times. (Barracks should have a question mark like Arena.)

I was also assuming that women didn't usually wear this kind of armor, which is supported by this interesting article: "If we are talking about actual medieval history, women wearing armor was rare and women in plated suits of armor even rarer." But since Dominion art puts women in all kinds of roles that were rare in actual history, maybe this is not a good reason.

I might be that Arena and Barracks should be "unknowns". My first reason still stands though, and is connected to what I wrote above about feminine/masculine features and artist's intent.

1137

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)

« on: April 02, 2019, 11:13:17 pm »

Are you sure the Donate person is a female?

No; there are many of these I'm not 100% sure of. But I think it's reasonable to go with how an artist would choose to portray a man or a woman - i.e. assuming that there's no reason why an artist (in this context) would choose to depict a man with feminine features or a woman with masculine ones.

1138

Dominion General Discussion / Re: My Stupid Project: Re-doing all Dominion cards

« on: April 02, 2019, 11:09:38 pm »

Isn't this whole thing just what the Dominion Online people have already done?

I see some similarities but more differences. In any case, it would be the other way around, since I did this years before the current Dominion Online.

1139

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)

« on: April 02, 2019, 03:29:50 pm »

Here is the list updated for Renaissance.

BASE (2nd edition)
Male: Bureaucrat, Laboratoty, Militia, Mine, Moneylender, Smithy, Vassal
Female: Artisan, Bandit, Harbinger, Merchant, Poacher, Sentry, Witch
Both: Festival, Market(?)
Unknown: Library

INTRIGUE (2nd edition)
Male: Baron, Conspirator, Duke, Ironworks, Minion, Nobels, Pawn, Replace, Steward, Swindler, Torturer
Female: Courtyard, Diplomat, Harem, Lurker, Patrol
Both: Courtier, Shanty Town (both are men, or one of each), Wishing Well (both are female, or one of each)
Unknown: -

SEASIDE
Male: Ambassador, Bazaar, Cutpurse, Embargo, Fishing Village, Haven, Lookout, Merchant Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Salvager, Smugglers, Tactician, Wharf
Female: Explorer, Sea Hag
Both: Native Village
Unknown: -

ALCHEMY
Male: Alchemist, Apothecary, Golem, Herbalist, Transmute
Female: Scrying Pool, Possession
Unknown: Apprentice, Familiar

PROSPERITY
Male: Bank, Bishop, Counting House, Goons, Loan, Mint, Mountebank, Venture
Female: Expand, Forge, Peddler
Both: Grand Market, King's Court, Rabble
Unknown: -

CORNUCOPIA
Male: Horse Traders, Hunting Party, Tournament
Female: Fairgrounds, Farming Village, Fortune Teller, Harvest, Princess, Young Witch
Both: Followers, Menagerie
Unknown: Jester

HINTERLANDS
Male: Cartographer, Develop, Haggler, Jack of All Trades, Mandarin, Margrave, Noble Brigand, Nomad Camp, Scheme, Spice Merchant, Stables
Female: Duchess, Oracle, Trader
Both: Embassy
Unknown: -

DARK AGES
Male: Armory, Bandit Camp, Beggar, Count, Graverobber, Hermit/Madman, Hunting Grounds, Ironmonger, Junk Dealer, Marauder, Necropolis, Pillage, Procession, Rogue, Sage, Scavenger, Squire, Urchin/Mercenary, Vagrant, Wandering Minstrel
Female: Market Square, Mystic
Both: Band of Misfits, Survivors, Knights
Unknown: Death Cart, Cultist, Forager

GUILDS
Male: Advisor, Butcher, Candlestick Maker, Doctor, Herald, Journeyman, Merchant Guild, Stonemason, Taxman
Female: Baker, Soothsayer
Both: Plaza
Unknown: -

ADVENTURES
Male: Alms, Borrow, Bridge Troll, Duplicate, Ferry, Giant, Hireling, Miser, Pathfinding, Peasant/Soldier/Fugitive/Disciple/Teacher, Quest, Ratcatcher, Raze, Training, Transmogrify, Travelling Fair, Wine Merchant
Female: Artificer, Caravan Guard, Guide, Lost Arts, Messenger, Page/Treasure Hunter/Warrior/Hero/Champion, Ranger, Save, Storyteller, Swamp Hag
Both: Ball, Bonfire, Pilgrimage, Plan(?), Royal Carriage, Scouting Party
Unknown: Raid

EMPIRES
Male: Arena(?), Battlefield, Catapult/Rocks, Chariot Race, Conquest, Delve, Dominate, Gladiator/Fortune, Legionary, Overlord, Patrician/Emporium, Royal Blacksmith, Sacrifice, Tax, Triumph, Triumphal Arch
Female: Baths, Donate, Enchantress, Engineer, Farmers' Market, Groundskeeper, Wedding, Windfall
Both: Advance, Annex, Banquet, Basilica, Salt the Earth, Settlers/Bustling Village
Unknown: Encampment/Plunder, Bandit Fort, Wild Hunt

NOCTURNE
Male: Cobbler, Delusion, Devil's Workshop, Fear, Fool, Greed, Haunting, Leprechaun, Locusts, Necromancer, Night Watchman, Raider, Tracker, Tragic Hero, Werewolf, Zombie Mason, Zombie Spy
Female: Bard, Conclave, Druid, Exorcist, Ghost/Haunted Mirror, Guardian, Misery, Pixie, Pooka, Shepherd, Tormentor(?), Vampire/Bat, Zombie Apprentice
Both: Blessed Village
Unknown: Changeling, Imp, Skulk

RENAISSANCE
Male: Barracks(?), Flag Bearer, Inventor, Patron, Priest, Recruiter, Road Network, Seer, Sinister Plot, Villain
Female: Border Guard/Lantern, Experiment, Old Witch, Research, Scholar, Sculptor, Silk Merchant, Swashbuckler, Treasurer/Key
Both: Acting Troupe, Capitalism, Fair, Improve, Lackeys, Piazza
Unknown: City Gate(?), Hideout

PROMOS
Male: Black Market, Dismantle, Envoy, Governor, Prince
Female: Summon
Both: -
Unknown: Sauna

Totals (with "Both" included):
MALE: 170.5 = 65.3%
FEMALE: 90.5 = 34.7%
UNKNOWN: 17

Breakdown for each set, percentage of female cards:
BASE (2E): 50.0%
INTRIGUE (2E): 34.2%
SEASIDE: 14.7%
ALCHEMY: 28.6%
PROSPERITY: 32.1%
CORNUCOPIA: 63.6%
HINTERLANDS: 23.3%
DARK AGES: 14.0%
GUILDS: 20.8%
ADVENTURES: 39.4%
EMPIRES: 36.7%
NOCTURNE: 43.5%
RENAISSANCE: 48.0%
PROMOS: 16.7%

Update 2019-04-06: Changed Devil's Workshop (Nocturne) from female to male.

1140

Dominion General Discussion / Re: My Stupid Project: Re-doing all Dominion cards

« on: April 02, 2019, 03:02:38 pm »

Updated with Renaissance cards and mechanics.

1141

Rules Questions / Re: Throne Room / Mining Village

« on: March 27, 2019, 11:23:20 am »

Lose Track does apply, but it is important to remember that Lose Track never stops you from playing a card, it only ever stops a card from being moved.

Quoted and bolded because it's such a common misreading of the rule.

Slightly more detailed rundown: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19394.msg782045#msg782045
This is at least the third thread recently that boils down to this question.

1142

Rules Questions / Re: Sauna and Innovation

« on: March 27, 2019, 10:58:12 am »

I realized this also matters for Citadel after all. If Citadel tries to replay the Estate, even though it fails, it means that Citadel won't replay the next Action card you play.

1143

Rules Questions / Re: Throne Room-Band of Misfits-Embargo and the lose track rule

« on: March 24, 2019, 07:41:33 pm »

Yes, with the exception that this's own "when you play this"-ability must be chosen last when we get to order Teacher tokens, reaction-to-attack, ..., that also happen when we play this. :-)

This is a completely different topic, but yes. Treasures that do something, and also Noble Brigand, actually do say "when you play this". And of course they work like all other cards that you play: "+" tokens and Reactions happen first. With 2nd editions Donald has now started including "first" to signify that Reactions happen before the on-play ability. (Likewise, Citadel, which also triggers when you play a card, says "afterward". Royal Carriage and Coin of the Realm could also be phrased this way to be consistent.)

1144

Dominion Articles / Re: Glossary Update

« on: March 23, 2019, 10:16:24 am »

If you have 0 actions left, Smithy is a stop card (aside from edge cases like Villa or Scepter).

I would then instead say that Smithy is a dead card, like an Estate or a Curse, because you can't play it. I understand stop cards as cards that don't draw upon playing them.

1145

Rules Questions / Re: Throne Room-Band of Misfits-Embargo and the lose track rule

« on: March 23, 2019, 01:28:00 am »

Hmm, I though that part was obvious? When Summon says "gain a card", that's the first time it refers to it, so obviously that's when it starts tracking it. The only potential clarification that needs to be added is that abilities that say "when you gain/buy/trash/play/etc this" track their own card from the start, and this includes on-play abilities (which have an implicit "when you play this").

1146

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Artifact Origin cards as a card type

« on: March 23, 2019, 01:19:07 am »

Yes, I said it was only Reactions that are resolved in your hand (and not just revealed, see Market Square). Then I said that it could be that it applies to all cards that can be resolved in your hand. What it stems from is not the issue here though, it's still a rule. We don't really know if it applies to all cards or just Reactions, since there are no non-Reactions like that. But it has always only been talked about when discussing Reactions. Donald has even said that if he had handled Reactions differently, he wouldn't need that rule.

1147

Rules Questions / Re: Throne Room-Band of Misfits-Embargo and the lose track rule

« on: March 22, 2019, 04:32:03 pm »

I covered that in my last post: If at any point a card is not where an ability expects it to be, the ability loses track of it.

This includes an on-play ability on a card expecting that card to be in play (like when a card is played from the trash).

But yes, the rest follows from:
1) An ability can never "get track" again.
2) We're talking about an ability of a card, that is all the instructions that the card does when the ability is triggered. The ability keeps tracking the card all the way until it's done being resolved. Again, see the example with a Princed Reserve card.

1148

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Artifact Origin cards as a card type

« on: March 22, 2019, 12:51:24 pm »

There is a special rule about Reactions, although not formalized. It's that you can resolve a Reaction card in your hand several times to the same event. That's not a general rule, because then you would get infinite VP with a Goons in play.

EDIT: Well, I kind of take it back. You could state this rule as pertaining to all cards that are resolved in your hand. I don't think any other cards than Reactions can be resolved when they're in your hand.

1149

Dominion Articles / Re: Glossary Update

« on: March 22, 2019, 12:38:06 pm »

Stop Card: A card that does not draw any more cards from your deck, like Giant or Gold. If Actions are limited, this may or may not include terminal draw.   

I don't understand the last sentence. Can Smithy be a stop card?

1150

Dominion Articles / Re: Towards a New Theory of Discard

« on: March 22, 2019, 12:06:08 pm »

I think first we have to establish exactly what the timing is on Hermit. How does trashing from your discard pile work? Are the cards still in your discard pile or "set aside" while you look at them?

When you're told to "look at" cards from your deck, they are "set aside", not in your deck - e.g. with Lookout. If Hermit works this way, it means that a trashed Cultist can not make you reshuffle, since you have no cards in your discard pile.

Hermit says "look through", but it seems safe to assume it means the same as "look at all the cards". However, this is the discard pile, not the deck, so we don't know if the same rule applies.

Even more relevant, the next instruction is to trash "from your discard pile". Imagine a wording like, "look at all the cards in your discard pile, trash one of them", this would be similar to Lookout. But Hermit instead really seems to say that the card is in your discard pile when you trash it.

Ok, let's assume that. But I think we can still view the first two instructions as one effect. You look through your discard pile, while the cards are still there, and as you do so, you may trash one of them. Then you stop looking at the cards. If any effect disturbs the contents of your discard pile as you're doing this, it just means that you immediately have updated information, since you're still looking.