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26

Rules Questions / Sorcerer attack with empty deck

« on: May 23, 2022, 01:29:14 pm »

   

Back during the previews I found on Discord that Donald tentatively ruled that with Sorcerer, if you're deck is empty, you don't gain a Curse. I wonder if this has been reversed? I'm not so sure it's right.

The card text "if wrong" must mean "if it's not the named card".

Giant says (simplified): "if it costs from $3 to $6, trash it; otherwise gain a Curse". If your deck is empty, you gain a Curse (per the current ruling).

What if we turn it around: "if it doesn't cost from $3 to $6, gain a Curse; otherwise trash it". It should work the same, you gain a Curse. Meaning, if there is no card, the card doesn't cost from $3 to $6.

Another interpretation would be, when there is no card, it's always "otherwise": "it" neither does nor doesn't cost anything. The problem with this is that then "otherwise" is not true either, since it directly refers to whether the card costs from $3 to $6. So under this interpretation, Giant would not do anything when your deck is empty.

Following the first interpretation:

Sorceress says: "if it's the named card, each other player gains a Curse". If there is no card, it can't be the named card, so no Curses.

Sorcerer says: "if it's not the named card, gain a Curse". If there is no card, it can't be the named card, so you gain a Curse.

27

Rules Questions / Island Folk 3rd turn

« on: May 21, 2022, 10:03:00 am »

Rulebook: "This can never let you take a 3rd turn in a row."
This is not really accurate, is it? If I buy Mission and use Island Folk on the same turn, I will get three turns in a row, right?

28

Rules Questions / Choosing cards with Hunter

« on: May 20, 2022, 08:21:18 am »

Is the choosing an atomic action, or do I choose one card (and put it into my hand), then choose one from the remaining cards, etc.?

Example: I reveal Mill, Village and Copper. I don't want to draw the Village. I choose an Action, Mill. I choose a Treasure, Copper. I choose a Victory; there are none (choosing in the order given: Action, Treasure, Victory).
Or do I have to choose all three, since there are one of each type?

29

Rules Questions / Minor note about Peddler, and Destrier and Fisherman

« on: May 07, 2022, 10:29:43 am »

Peddler was rephrased for clarity, from "During your Buy phase, this costs $2 less per Action card you have in play" to "During a player's Buy phase, this costs $2 less per Action card they have in play."

I see that Destrier and Fisherman have the old Peddler phrasing:
"During your turn, this costs $1 less per card you've gained this turn."
"During your turns, if your discard pile is empty, this card cost $3 less."

I assume they work exactly like Peddler, that all copies have a reduced cost (for all players) based on the current player's situation.

30

Rules Questions / Getting Envious or Deluded at start of buy phase (Market Towns)

« on: April 19, 2022, 11:28:34 am »

At the start of your Buy phase, you play a Leprechaun with Market Towns, and get a Hex. (It's also possible to get a Hex in more complicated ways.)

1) If you get Envious, do you have to return it now, or can you want until next turn? (I assume now.)

2) If you already have Envious, and you return it before playing Leprechaun, and you get Envious again, do you return it again this turn? (I assume yes.)

Obviously if you have already have Envious, it's better to keep it before playing Leprechaun.

31

Rules Questions / Exact timing of skipping several turns (Lich)

« on: April 07, 2022, 10:40:22 am »

This is not really a rules question, since we know how it works. I'm just struggling to figure out how Lich's skipping turns works technically.

Lich just says "skip a turn", which is not technically accurate since you can't immediately do that when playing the card. Cards that give extra turns say "after this turn", which is accurate.

The Wiki says "when you would begin a turn, skip that turn".
The rulebook says "the next time you would take a turn, you don't".
(The rulebook is more accurate, since it's only supposed to work once, not whenever you would begin a turn for the rest of the game.)

But that description doesn't actually work, since several Lich plays is supposed to skip several consecutive turns. If we use the description above: With two "skip a turn" effects, they would both trigger at the same time, and you choose the order. The second one would fail to do anything, since you're already skipping that turn. So you would never skip more than one turn after x Liches played.

So how can we describe the timing so that consecutive turns are skipped? This must be the first ability in Dominion that sets up something to change in the future and stacks.

Describing "skip a turn" as immediately cancelling the next scheduled turn certainly doesn't work, since (1) you can get extra turns after that, and (2) you can choose which turn to resolve first and that's the turn that will be skipped.

The closest I've gotten is a recursive description:
The next time you would take a turn: If the turn is not already skipped, skip it. Otherwise, the next time you would take a turn, do as described in the previous sentence.

32

Rules Questions / Garrison without tokens

« on: April 06, 2022, 11:38:53 am »

You play Garrison, but don't gain any cards. When you come to the part of Clean-up where you are discarding, does it stay in play? Its effect lasts for the rest of the turn, which is not over yet.

The only way to gain a card later in your turn, I think, would be if you had bought Donate. But whether it's possible to gain more cards or not, it's still the case that the when-gain effect is not over yet.

33

Rules Questions / Donate and Baths at end of turn

« on: April 02, 2022, 08:25:01 am »

Now that Donate happens at the end of your turn, it's possible to gain a card in this window. I guess it's obvious where this is going. Baths says "When you end your turn without having gained a card".

I always assumed Baths triggered at the end of your turn, like Save, Faithful Hound and (now) Donate. If so, it's possible to get VP tokens from Baths before gaining a card during Donate. Or if that's not possible, I guess it means that Baths trigger after your turn (before extra turns presumably)?

34

Rules Questions / Highwayman "each turn"

« on: April 01, 2022, 03:02:36 pm »

Echantress says "the first time each other player plays an Action card on their turn".
Highwayman says "the first Treasure each other player plays each turn".

Is Highwayman supposed to apply only to a player's own turns, like Enchantress, or is it supposed to also apply during another player's turn? So for instance if Alice has Capitalism and she plays Highwayman, and Bob reacts with a Caravan Guard, is the Caravan Guard affected by Highwayman?

35

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Web page with played games

« on: March 26, 2022, 02:59:47 pm »

There used to be a web page where you could see all your played games; Salvager was for Goko I believe (and Council Room for Isotropic). Does something like that still exist?

36

Rules Questions / "Repeat as desired" (Cave Dwellers, Desert Guides, Market Towns)

« on: March 11, 2022, 07:39:05 am »

This is one ability, right? So after using Cave Dwellers once, you can't call a Guide and then use Cave Dwellers again? Rather, if you want to use Cave Dwellers several times you have to do it consecutively? It reads like that, but I just want to make sure.

37

Rules Questions / Lich skipping turns

« on: March 10, 2022, 10:24:57 am »

Do you also skip turns that aren't set up yet when you play Lich? So if I play Outpost, then Lich and then Voyage, can I choose to skip the Voyage turn instead of the Outpost turn?

I assume yes; Lich sets up a future "skip a turn" ability, and when you resolve it, you choose which turn to skip. When do you make that choice though? I guess it's in-between turns.

38

Rules Questions / Highwayman - first played Treasure (Capitalism, Villa)

« on: March 10, 2022, 10:04:48 am »

Something else that was asked: Opponent has played Highwayman. You play a Festival, you play no Treasures, you buy Capitalism and then Villa. The Festival you played is now a Treasure. Does it count as the first Treasure you played?

It wasn't a Treasure when you played it, so based on previous rulings for Treasure Map and old Band of Misfits, I assume the answer is no.

39

Rules Questions / Highwayman, Envious and Coppersmith

« on: March 10, 2022, 09:58:13 am »

According to the rulebook Highwayman has the same timing as Ways and Enchantress.

How about Envious? Is it timed like Highwayman? (You could choose to get $1 instead of nothing from your Silver/Gold.)

This can also be asked about Coppersmith actually. If it has the same timing, you could apply Coppersmith first and get $2, and Highwayman would fail.

Or, are Envious and Coppersmith "shape-shifting" the Treasures, so that the Treasures' abilities are actually changed? Then Highwayman would always override them.

40

Rules Questions / Elder and Way of the Chameleon

« on: March 10, 2022, 09:08:40 am »

Elder gives you an extra option that you have to choose upfront. This means Elder steps in and makes you do something else instead of what the card says. (If the card says "choose one", Elder says you "choose two different" instead.)

It seems to me that Elder works like Lantern.

Lantern replaces the reveal and discard effects as you're resolving the Border Guard. It's been ruled that if you used Way of the Chameleon, Lantern doesn't do anything, because you're not following the Border Guard's instructions anymore.

Elder talks about what choices the card gives you. If you use Way of the Chameleon, you're not given any choices by the card, but by the Chameleon. So Elder can't give you the extra option.

Is that right?

41

Dominion General Discussion / Rulebooks on Rio Grande's website

« on: March 09, 2022, 08:28:56 am »

I just checked the different expansions to see if there are updated rulebooks for the newest printings. Is it possible to get RRG to post the newest versions?

Here's what I found:

Dominion 2E: 2016
Intrigue 2E: 2019
Seaside: 2020
Alchemy: 2018
Prosperity: 2019
Guilds & Cornucopia: 2017
Hinterlands: 2016
Dark Ages: 2012!
Adventures: 2015!
Empires: 2018
Nocturne: 2017
Renaissance: 2018

Dark Ages and Adventures actually don't even have the "second edition" rulebooks anymore (they used to have it), only the original rulebooks.

42

Rules Questions / Citadel and Enchantress

« on: January 20, 2022, 11:01:58 am »

Unfortunately I discovered another potential problem with the newly worded Citadel:

The first time you play an Action card during each of your turns, play it twice instead.

It seems that this now has the same timing as Enchantress and Ways? That would mean that Citadel makes Enchantress fail, just like a Way does.

43

Rules Questions / Effects of the new playing card rule

« on: September 15, 2021, 08:16:03 am »

I'm trying to figure out the effects of the new rule for playing cards.

* Innovation doesn't need the instruction to set the card aside.
* Reap, Summon and Way of the Turtle don't need the "if you did" clause.
* Village Green doesn't need the newly added instruction to reveal it (which killed double-playing it with Vassal, and playing a shuffled Village Green).
* If you Vassal a Faithful Hound, and then set the Hound aside, Vassal can no longer play it.

Only the last one is an actual change in functionality, considering that Village Green already had errata.

Are there any other consequences of this rules change?

44

Rules Questions / Citadel and Captain

« on: September 14, 2021, 02:14:55 pm »

Before the new rule for playing cards, how does this interaction work? You play Captain, and next turn you play a Smithy in the supply, leaving it there, then Citadel replays it - and puts it into play? Meaning that the Smithy is now yours without you having gained it?

After the rules change, I guess it's very similar. You play Captain, and next turn you choose a Smithy, but instead of Captain playing it, Citadel plays it and puts it into play, and then plays it again. You get the Smithy.

Am I missing something?

45

Rules Questions / Timing of Donate and Mountain Pass changed

« on: September 10, 2021, 12:27:29 pm »

These used to say "after this turn", but now say "at end of turn". Is the intention that they now have the same timing as Baths, Save, The River's Gift, The Way of the Squirrel and Faithful Hound?

Does this mean that Possession is still active when these cards are resolved?

Does this mean you will resolve these even if you trigger game-end conditions during your turn?

46

Rules Questions / The new rule for playing cards - like lose-track?

« on: September 10, 2021, 07:07:09 am »

Another question about the new rule for playing cards.

This rule is about abilities expecting cards to be certain places, exactly like the lose-track (stop-moving) rule. The lose-track rule is specifically about losing track though, which means that it doesn't matter if the card moved back, it's still lost track of. Does the same apply for the playing-card rule?

Play Vassal. Discard the top card of your deck, a Village Green.
Play Village Green as Way of the Mouse with Embargo. Village Green is trashed, triggering Sewers.
Trash Catacombs with Sewers, gaining Lurker, triggering Innovation.
Play Lurker with Innovation, gaining the Village Green from trash.
The Village Green is put in the discard pile.
EDIT: This doesn't work, but I posted a couple of scenarios below that do.

The Vassal has lost track of the Village Green. But the Village Green is in the expected place - your discard pile. Can the Vassal play it?

If it can, it seems it would still not be able to put it into play, per the stop-moving rule. This makes me think that it makes most sense if the Vassal can't play it, so that the playing-card rule and the stop-moving rule function similarly. (Then I would consider them both subsets of the lose-track rule.)

47

Rules Questions / New Village Green and Vassal

« on: September 09, 2021, 01:37:38 pm »

With the new 2020 Village Green that you have to reveal to play, if you discard Village Green with Vassal, and then play it with Vassal, can you then also play it with itself? In other words, can you reveal it from play, or does it have to be in your discard pile? Clearly the Village Green lost track of itself when it moved to play, which means it can't be moved. But revealing is not moving.

Then there is the new 2021 rule that you can only play a card that you can put into play. Going by this rule, the Village Green can only be played when it's in your discard pile. (So with this rule we don't actually need the "reveal" errata on Village Green anymore, I think.) But what about without this rule?

48

Rules Questions / The new rule for playing cards: A card's own play ability

« on: July 13, 2021, 04:26:21 am »

This is a question about the new rule for playing cards:

"An effect that tries to play a card for the first time can only do so when the card is where the effect expects it to be. If it can play it the first time, subsequent plays will also work."

If you play a card, putting it into play, but then before you get to resolving the card's ability, it disappears, do you still resolve it?

Let's say you've played a Kiln. Then you play Crown, announcing it and putting it into play. Before resolving the Crown, you gain Mandarin, topdecking the Crown. (Like this for instance: Gain another Crown through Kiln, react to the gain by playing Sheepdog or Falconer, playing it as Workshop through Way of the Mouse, gain Mandarin (via cost reduction).)

The Crown's ability definitely loses track of it (so if it was a Mining Village instead of a Crown, it could not trash itself). But we know that a card that is in the middle of being resolved, and then is moved by another ability, is still resolved fully. The Crown has only been announced and put into play though. Do you resolve the Crown?

49

Rules Questions / When exactly does Wayfairer's cost change?

« on: July 31, 2020, 09:37:52 pm »

Does the cost change trigger on when-gain like Watchtower etc., or does it happen before that?

If you could order it with other when-gain stuff, you could gain a Salvager, play it with Innovation trashing a Wayfarer from your hand (for $6 let's say), and then apply the cost change ($4).

On the one hand the cost change does happen when (after) you gain the card, which is also when Watchtower, Innovation etc. trigger. But on the other hand, Wayfarer doesn't say "when you gain a card", it simply says that it "has the same cost as the last other gained card". So I assume the cost changes before when-gain stuff.

I would also expect Peddler to work the same way, changing its cost before Arena (start of Buy phase) triggers. (This could matter of you discard a Village Green with Arena, playing it using for instance Way of the Butterfly to return a Peddler Way of the Mouse to do something with a Peddler.)

50

Rules Questions / Competing for trashed Gold

« on: July 02, 2020, 03:39:48 pm »

There are several Golds in the trash. Alice plays Noble Brigand. Bob reveals a Gold and trashes it. Carl doesn't reveal any Treasures and gains a Copper. Carl reacts with a Sheepdog, using Way of the Mouse to play Vassal + Graverobber and taking a Gold from the deck. Then Alice should gain the Gold that Bob trashed. But if it was the Gold that Carl took, she can't (since the Noble Brigand has lost track if it). How do we know if it was that Gold?

It has been discussed whether cards in the trash are unknown or not. Thief and Noble Brigand certainly can never lose track of the cards they trashed, and so their identities can't be unknown either.

I think Graverobber is different. It did not put the card in the trash, so there is now way of knowing the identity of the card it gains - no matter if it was trashed by another card just now or at any previous time in the game. This means we cannot know whether Carl gained "Alice's" Gold.

Since we don't know, we have to consider it as a different Gold. Alice gains her Gold no problem. But what if that was the only Gold in the trash? Shouldn't the identity of the Graverobbered Gold still be unknown? That would mean that Alice should gain a Gold that isn't there. This is impossible.

Does it make sense to say that, since we don't know, we consider it as the same Gold? Then Alice can't gain her Gold, no matter how many are in the trash.