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Messages - Jeebus

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Rules Questions / Re: Trashing a Gladiator that's under a Fortune?
« on: February 21, 2019, 12:01:27 am »
It's not? I guess it makes sense that is has to "have" track first, but I thought the card just had to be somewhere where it isn't expected at the time it has to be moved. I could be wrong though.

You are right about this, as we see in the famous Throne Room + Mining Village example.

But the Gladiator doesn't refer to any specific card, so it can't lose track of it. It's like when a Marauder is played, you can't chose any of the lower Ruins, but that's not because the Marauder is losing track of any particular Ruins. It's just because that's the rule, only the top card is available.

Rules Questions / Re: Trashing a Gladiator that's under a Fortune?
« on: February 20, 2019, 04:13:40 pm »
Donald has confirmed earlier that you can look through split piles.

The rules do state (or imply) that you can only choose cards that are on top of piles, for instance with Band of Misfits. Given this as a rule, it's pretty clear that you can't choose to Salt the Earth a Castle hidden in the pile. It's not immediately clear that trashing a hidden Gladiator with Gladiator falls under this rule though. But Donald's ruling makes the rules consistent.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Slow-Playing Detection?
« on: February 20, 2019, 01:17:44 pm »
This got me thinking. Isn't the behavior of slowplaying that the player uses almost max time, or at least a big percentage of max time, for each and every click? I would think it would be a pretty easy thing to identify.

I don't really like a time difference between the players. This could give false positives with very different playing styles, especially in long games (although I guess the latter could be addressed with a percentage instead of minute count).

But something along the lines of Dingan's first suggestion should work. I think the allowed time per click currently is 4 minutes. For instance, let's say you get a "mark" if you take more than 3 minutes per click 3 times in a turn (or every time if there are less than 3 clicks in the turn). You can't get marks the first two turns in a game. If you get marks for two consecutive turns, you can be force-resigned. To make sure nobody games the system by slow-playing only every other turn, the total number of marks should also matter. For instance, after 4 marks you can be force-resigned. Hmm, one problem could be that slow-playing < 3 minutes still works. To solve that, taking more than 1 minute per click 4 times in a turn could earn you half a mark; this would count towards your total only.

Another great thing about this system would be that if a player is actually force-resigned based on "marks", and this happens a certain number of times, they could get auto-banned. No involvement from Stef or anybody else is needed.

In terms if sets with "duds", I don't view any set as having many duds, except Alchemy, Hinterlands, and probably first edition base game.

Alchemy is pretty bad, 4 of the cards means that 33% are duds. I don't see Prosperity as being so bad; it has maybe 4 dud cards, but two of those are not awful (Trade Route and Royal Seal). Seaside has like 2 dud cards (plus a semi-dud in Pearl Diver). But I don't get why Hinterlands isn't mentioned more often. Hinterlands has 4 awful cards, plus a couple semi-duds.

In terms of flavor, I think Seaside should be on the list. I know several people who rate it as their favorite expansion (not having gotten anything since Guilds/Dark Ages probably) just because it's the set with the strongest flavor of all the earlier ones.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion current Popularity?
« on: February 18, 2019, 01:58:08 pm »
For me it's pretty bad that people are posting rules questions on Discord, especially if it's a new question and Donald replies only there. It would be really bad if an actual ruling was made only on Discord. But in general I also want to catch rules question I know the answer to, because it helps me see new parts of the rules that people can be confused about, or even lead me to consider some other interaction I hadn't thought about. (I'm talking about maintaining my rules document.)

I just don't personally have the time or inclination to participate in that kind of chatting, and certainly not to monitor it constantly. And as far as I can figure out posts are not categorized in any coherent way, so searching for stuff is pointless (or maybe impossible anyway).

(Additionally, I prefer little but pithy content to just a lot of content just for the sake of it.)

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Dominion Woodcutter Logging Services
« on: February 18, 2019, 01:01:24 pm »
Hmm, I installed this, checked out a log of an old game, then went to start a new game and I immediately lost the game.
Hmm, that's definitely weird. Did you pull just a single log, and did it crash or anything when you did?

Just one log.
I don't think it crashed. It did many things in the client. Since it was the first time I used it, I'm not sure if it did anything unusual.

I would say they aren't official anymore. Donald X. has said on BGG (and probably elsewhere too), "I recommend that you stop using the replaced cards". My understanding is that they are no longer part of the Dominion canon, and not worth the trouble ranking. They also weren't ranked in 2017.

Donald has specifically said that they are official and part of Dominion.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Dominion Woodcutter Logging Services
« on: February 14, 2019, 02:47:11 pm »
Hmm, I installed this, checked out a log of an old game, then went to start a new game and I immediately lost the game.

The graph is not working for me in any browser in Windows 7. Is it supposed to be there?

Rules Questions / Re: Complete Dominion rules document
« on: February 07, 2019, 03:29:08 pm »
pg 9: I think it would be better if the paragraph for Fate brought up Will-o'-Wisp. I know you bring it up on the same page with Swamp's Gift, but it may be better if it was all in one paragraph. Even the Nocturne rulebook does this.
I might change this if there's a new version.

pg 41: Under "cards that let you cheat," you should also mention how Quest doesn't require you to reveal discarded Curses.
Good catch, will add it.
EDIT: Actually, I remember that I already considered but decided against it, because it's so marginal. It's different than Opulent Castle, because with that card there could be information that you in theory don't want to reveal (exactly which Victory cards you're discarding). With Quest there is no such consideration.

pg 58: Under Fortune you say you can spend Coffers if you played Fortune with another ability. Is that allowed? If my Venture reveals Fortune, I get to spend Coffers?
Yes, correct. The ruling is around here somewhere.

Also in all of section VI, the Boons written as "Sky's Gift, The" Is this intentional? Cause it just looks weird.
It's intentional, and quite normal in encyclopedias etc. when the entry is not alphabetized by that word ("the", "a", "an"...)

Rules Questions / Re: Complete Dominion rules document
« on: February 07, 2019, 12:16:35 pm »
I discovered that half the PDF links didn't work. I'm fixing this now. I took down the file in the meantime. :( Hope it gets approved again soon.

EDIT: New version with fixed links was up 30 minutes ago.

Rules Questions / Re: Complete Dominion rules document
« on: February 07, 2019, 09:52:16 am »
The new version is finally finished, which incorporates Renaissance, as well as containing new rulings and many other fixes and improvements.

Complete Rules for Dominion and All Its Expansions

I would appreciate a thumb on BoardGameGeek. But if you don't have an account and for some reason really don't want to create one, you can also find a link somewhere in this thread. ;)

Yeah, I see that that's a good solution. The thing is that I wanted to use "differently named", since it's a keyword with a link.

Is this too weird or confusing?

The Action you play has to be differently named from all of the cards you have in play.
"Dig for" a card that is differently named from all of the cards in your hand.

Thanks. Yeah, I've been doing too much reviewing and editing.

But what about when you add "of the"? Is "any" still better than "all"?

a card that is differently named from any of the cards in your hand.

Dominion General Discussion / Best phrasing? Differently named from all/any
« on: February 02, 2019, 01:40:12 pm »
In my document I have som phrases like this:

The Action you play has to be differently named from any cards you have in play.

But I'm thinking that this is wrong, and it should be "all" instead of "any". Which option is clearer, or is there another option that is better?

Rules Questions / Re: playing trashed inherited Estate
« on: January 31, 2019, 12:31:38 pm »
No, you don't draw a card.

The second time the Estate is played, it is just an Estate and it's just a Victory card (not an Action card). So Conspirator counts only 2 played Action cards (including itself).

Whether you played a card or not is open for debate, but currently no cards care about that. But you certainly didn't play an Action card, which Conspirator cares about.

Rules Questions / Re: Sauna and Innovation
« on: January 28, 2019, 01:13:41 pm »
It depends what it means to "finish playing an Action card". Maybe it's possible to view it as on Guildhall: you played a Treasure, no matter if it changed later. The process that you finished doing was "playing an Action card".

Another thought is that maybe these cards will have new wordings to match Citadel some day?

Coin of the Realm: When you play an Action card, you may call this afterwards, for +2 Actions.
Royal Carriage: When you play an Action card, if it's still in play afterwards, you may call this, to replay that Action.

But that doesn't help the current situation I guess, unless you rule that this is how they effectively work.

Rules Questions / Re: Sauna and Innovation
« on: January 28, 2019, 10:16:28 am »
Ignoring the Diadem case, there's also Feast (yes I know), Treasure Map (unlikely), Farmers' Market. With cost reduction Pillage, Tragic Hero.

Rules Questions / Re: Sauna and Innovation
« on: January 28, 2019, 12:33:23 am »
Well, there's also Mining Village, Experiment, Death Cart, Engineer, etc. that you can Inherit. But it still involves Inheritance so I guess it's not different. I doubt there's any way it matters without Inheritance.

Rules Questions / Re: Sauna and Innovation
« on: January 27, 2019, 08:08:58 pm »
Also, here's my guesses: yes, you can call Coin of the Realm. Citadel tries to replay it but it has no effect because it's just a vanilla Estate now.

(Actually, what does Throne–Inheritance–Embargo so? I guess Citadel–Inheritance–Embargo does the same as that, but I don't remember what the ruling is.)

It does nothing; playing a plain Estate has no effect. So you're right that Citadel doesn't do anything no matter what. For practical matters it seems that this only matters for Coin of the Realm.

I think my initial question is phrased wrong actually. "When does it trigger" doesn't matter I think. The question is if these cards are like Guildhall, that they only care that you played (or "finished playing") an Action card. It really seems so, especially on Citadel.

Rules Questions / Re: Sauna and Innovation
« on: January 27, 2019, 05:32:07 pm »
Thanks for the ruling.

I have a related question. When do Coin of the Realm, Royal Carriage and Citadel trigger?

I'm pretty sure they have the exact same trigger, although it's phrased a bit differently?

If you Inherit Embargo and play an Inherited Estate, it's trashed and is not an Action card. Can you now call CotR or Royal Carriage? Does Citadel replay it?

Rules Questions / Sauna and Innovation
« on: January 27, 2019, 02:26:23 pm »
Another question to bother Donald with (sorry). This is something that some of us have mused about before, but it never mattered until now. Champion, Merchant and Sauna say "when you play x". But when do you do it, before or after you resolve the played card?

The one situation I can think of is: Play Sauna; then play Silver, trashing a Catacombs, gaining a Black Market/Storyteller, playing it via Innovation. Now it matters if the Silver has been resolved or not.

We have some groups of...things:

1) Reactions like Moat, plus Urchin - "when you play x, first"
2) Champion, Merchant and Sauna - "when you play x"
3) Adventures tokens - "when you play x, first"

(Excluded here are cards that say "when you play this" (Noble Brigand, Philosopher's Stone, etc.) since that's part of resolving the play ability, not a triggered ability.)

Reactions/Urchin used to say just "when you play x", but still happened before the played card. Then Adventures came along with tokens that said "first", and later 2nd editions of Reactions/Urchin also said "first" to clarify the timing. Presumably Champion, Merchant and Sauna never got this wording because it didn't matter.

Coin of the Realm, Royal Carriage and Citadel indicate that they happen after the played card. But Champion, Merchant and Sauna don't say either way.

So currently we have some things that say "first" and others that don't. This is the same situation as after Adventures came out, and of course Reactions/Urchin nevertheless happened before the played card. Going by this, it would seem that Sauna should too.

On the other hand, the intuitive interpretation for most players would probably be that the Silver produces $2 before you trash a card.

Rules Questions / Re: Innovation and Haggler
« on: January 26, 2019, 01:03:50 pm »
Well, I guess I was just saying that there are different ways to interpret the wording, and I'm not sure if the current ruling is the most natural one. But certainly these cards (like Groundskeeper) are different from any other triggering card, so it's not clear.

Given the precedent of cards like Guildhall, I don't think it's out of the question to interpret Groundskeeper the same way: That the "while this is in play" part had to be there at the time you gained the card. With Guildhall the "Treasure" part had to be there at the time you gained the card. If both things ("while this is in play" and "Treasure") are part of the actual trigger, maybe they should work the same in that sense.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Shitty Rules Questions
« on: January 25, 2019, 02:56:00 pm »
If a Landmark just said, "Trash a card", would every card in the game be trashed the instant the game starts?

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