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Messages - infangthief

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526
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 22, 2022, 07:56:15 am »
Answering fang's question ...

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

This

I didn't vote math for the either/or, remember? It was for the lack of substance behind his very strong statements.

Quite. But you picked out me to ask what I thought about the lack of substance behind his strong statements. Why did you not also pick out e to ask that?

527
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 22, 2022, 07:53:27 am »
There isn't really a case on e. (At least, I posted one, but I flip back and forward on whether I even believe it myself.)

I think most people are voting e for just slightly scummy things / turns of phrase he's said.
First one for me was his second post of the game, where he answers the question that he asked in his previous post.
Joth and Dylan each mentioned other ones when they laid their first votes. Galzria possibly also, I can't remember.

e went through a phase of announcing about 4 different people were town, or day 1 passes for him. Which is possibly towny, but so much of it in a row just seemed like he was laying into the "faust doesn't like this, look I'm going to do it anyway to show I don't care". (Ok, what I'm saying here is maybe just similar to mathdude's "scumhunting" of MiX; I was already thinking e was likely scum by that time.)

Otherwise, I don't think e has done much (or any?) scumhunting. There was a bit possibly on gkrieg, but he didn't have much to say when challenged. And of course in that context there was this exchange, which I still don't know what to make of:
Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive
Genuine?
White-knighting + shading?
Which one?

Genuine in the sense that he read the first post, reacted one way, then kept reading and reacted another way

And then the interactions with mathdude, who may well be scum.

PPE: 7

528
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 22, 2022, 07:39:21 am »
EFHW (can't remember if you said you'd be around again before deadline),
When you asked me why I wasn't voting for mathdude, why did you not ask e also? After all, it was e's post that you quoted immediately before you placed your vote on mathdude.

529
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 22, 2022, 07:33:31 am »
vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

530
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 22, 2022, 07:27:22 am »
Vote count 1.fang

Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, Galzria
2.71828..... (3) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
 
Currently, Dylan is set to be exiled. (joth leaving mathdude puts mathdude and Dylan on 4 each, with Dylan having been on 4 for longer.)

531
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 22, 2022, 04:30:30 am »
I would love to hear any arguments for why Dylan is town. So far all I've seen is like, concerns about wagon composition, or finding someone else scummier, and neither of those explains the vehemence of the opposition to me.
Who do you think is vehemently opposing it?

532
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 22, 2022, 04:08:00 am »
And I do mean it when I say I don't really think in a game where no one knows there's role on D1, that there's any useful scum reading.
You've said this a couple of times now and I don't get it. Does having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? Does other people having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? How do you get on in a normal mafia game when you are VT?

Also, if D1 was normal vote, my vote would matter more, but since it's plurality, we will get an exile. So my lurking isn't really hurting town. i.e those who have described this as anti town are not being fair.
Swowl's already called you out for this, but it is worth doing again. You seem to think that the goal of day 1 is to get an exile. Should we have just asked J Reggie if maybe he could have removed a player before the game started, and begun with N1 instead of D1? Better?

I mean sure I'll take that offer, if he rands between scum too.
Ah, what a chance we missed. We could have all not voted for anyone all day, would that have forced the mod to randomise the exile?

533
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 22, 2022, 03:51:11 am »
And I do mean it when I say I don't really think in a game where no one knows there's role on D1, that there's any useful scum reading.
You've said this a couple of times now and I don't get it. Does having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? Does other people having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? How do you get on in a normal mafia game when you are VT?

Also, if D1 was normal vote, my vote would matter more, but since it's plurality, we will get an exile. So my lurking isn't really hurting town. i.e those who have described this as anti town are not being fair.
Swowl's already called you out for this, but it is worth doing again. You seem to think that the goal of day 1 is to get an exile. Should we have just asked J Reggie if maybe he could have removed a player before the game started, and begun with N1 instead of D1? Better?

534
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codename Select
« on: February 22, 2022, 03:19:03 am »
So... next player has to guess Whale.

Scores:
Swowl 12
Galzria 12
EFHW 12
scolapasta 11
infangthief 8

535
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 06:09:23 pm »
For a few hours before deadline I'll be in a parallel universe (escape room). But I should be back for like an hour before deadline itself.

In case I don't make it out, are votes in parallel universes acceptable?

536
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 06:02:38 pm »
I am happy to switch back to e.

My main problem with the Dylan wagon is the people on it. I still think e and mathdude are scum and I am suspicious of faust also.

537
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 05:55:19 pm »
2. @fang, can you substantiate your statement that math has an agenda to make MiX look scummy?

Yeh, not sure. I'll have a go.

The e/MiX thing being either/or started as something mathdude had "worked out" (seemingly in contrast to what his gut was telling him about which of e and MiX was more likely to be scum).
But later it turned out that the either/or thing was a gut feeling also.
So I kind of think he is abusing the term "gut feeling" to let him say anything he wants to.

That's the best way I can describe why I think the MiX shading is an agenda.
Below are the supporting quotes.

Here's the quote for the either/or thing being "worked out":
In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

And here's the quote for the either/or thing being a gut feeling:
I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).
Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

It was mostly a D1 gut read.  I felt like they were on different paths/priorities, but not an intentional "we need to not be connected" type of way.  And at the time I was making those initial thoughts, they seemed to be 2 of the most active.

Looking back now, I found 1 quote from each that probably influenced my reads as well.
There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?
All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Those two seem to be commenting on the other to stay relevant, but not getting connected.
(For this one, it is not absolutely clear whether the "It was mostly a D1 gut read" refers to the individual reads of e and MiX, or the either/or. But when he says that the MiX and e quotes "probably influenced" him, it becomes clear that he wants to say that the either/or was a "gut feeling".

538
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 03:36:30 pm »
There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?
How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

I forgot. I think joth's still voting me?

Not only am I not still voting for you, I never voted for you in the first place. Begrudging town points for not paying attention to the game.

I disagree with the "begrudging town points" - I'd give him tentative scum points.  See this comment about e earlier:
On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

e is savvy enough to sidestep the wagon freakout tell.

e is wise enough not to "fall" for a wagon.  MiX is wise enough to know that "not realizing the votes were where he thought they were" is something people give town-points for on D1.  I wouldn't put it past MiX to abuse this group meta to get town points - something he would be looking to do as scum, but wouldn't need to do as town.

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Does it? Are you being influenced by your own read on MiX?

The other way to look at it is if mathdude was determined to paint MiX as scum. And here we have: "Oh dear someone is giving MiX town points, I'd better point out the way in which this could be scummy." From reading the rest of mathdude's posts this game I do get the sense that he has an agenda like that.

539
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codename Select
« on: February 21, 2022, 02:51:25 pm »
Challenge turn 9
So I just see in what I accepted and rejected from fangs clue, correct?
Yes, send EFHW a PM with that info.

540
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 12:00:25 pm »
Vote: mathdude just to keep things interesting
Are you changing vote because you want to avoid me asking you the same thing as I asked Dylan?

Why have you been voting for e up until now?

541
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 11:53:31 am »
Fang, you’re Dylan strike through was hilarious.

Pasta is for sure but concerned about listing when he’s scum.
Did you click on it to check?

Listing, as in leaning to one side a bit? Or making lists? Or listening? Concerned or not concerned?

542
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 11:47:06 am »
Vote: Dylan

scola has also just jumped way up on my list of people I'd vote... not from what MiX said, but the brief interaction with faust.  If there's any traction there, I'll definitely join.
Do you think Dylan is more likely to be scum than MiX?

PPE 1

543
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 11:43:54 am »
Alright.

Vote: Didds

Ah, yes. An even more useful session with 24 hours remaining.
e, why is it not useful for MiX to vote for Didds?

544
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 11:12:47 am »
Vote Count 1.2
Platypus and echidnas are the only mammals which lay eggs.

Anyone else reading the anecdotes in the vote counts? This one was great, because my daughter had just learned about these 2 exact animals in school the day before this was posted.

(VC1.3 tells us that vote counts now contain links).

Yes, I like them.

The links are useful. Eg we can click on "Dylan32" and go straight to his discord channel that says he is a red egg reason for voting for e, which was immediately followed by e responding to his reason. Dylan, would you like to share why you are voting for e at the moment?

PPE 1

545
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 21, 2022, 10:54:47 am »
I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).
Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

It was mostly a D1 gut read.  I felt like they were on different paths/priorities, but not an intentional "we need to not be connected" type of way.  And at the time I was making those initial thoughts, they seemed to be 2 of the most active.

Looking back now, I found 1 quote from each that probably influenced my reads as well.
There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?
All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Those two seem to be commenting on the other to stay relevant, but not getting connected.

Nothing here makes me want to move my vote away from you, sorry.

546
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codename Select
« on: February 21, 2022, 10:12:46 am »
After turn 9:

TEMPLEOLYMPUSPUMPKINRICE
KICKASHBUBBLEBOWL
SUGARJEWELERWHALEMILL
BLACKSMITHPOINTBENCHUNIVERSITY

Turn 1:
ZEUS
Turn 2:
Clue: Building
Turn 3:
Guess: TEMPLE
Clue: APPRENTICESHIP

Turn 4:
Guess: UNIVERSITY
Clue: DOMINION

Turn 5:
Guess: Blacksmith
Clue: Flour

Turn 6:
Guess: MILL
Clue: GRAINS

Turn 6 was challenged unsuccessfully by infangthief
Turn 7
Guess: Rice
Clue: Edible
Turn 8:
Guess: Sugar
Clue: Blow
Turn 9:
Guess: Bubble
Clue: Sightseer

Turn 9 was challenged by EFHW (results pending)

Scores (pending results of turn 9 challenge):
Swowl: 14
Galzria: 12
scolapasta: 11
EFHW: 10
infangthief: 10

547
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codename Select
« on: February 21, 2022, 09:58:24 am »
I read the whole thread and I think I understand the rules, but I have no idea how to jump in. Do I need to grab a pen and paper and do the whole game so far in my head, or would I have all the info I need from the last two clues?
Thanks joth!! I am happy. :)

At this moment you would probably be wise to wait until EFHW posts her challenge results, before taking a turn.

For taking a turn, I think the primary thing to look at is the last two clues. I think the impact of previous clues is non-zero, but normally small enough to ignore. But what do I know, I am losing!
If you want to challenge an earlier clue then you would of course need to figure out what everyone was thinking, ever.

548
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codename Select
« on: February 21, 2022, 09:49:16 am »
What do people think about having no defined turn order like this, or having a fixed turn order? Fixed turn order would be a lot simpler and normal. Is that better?
I like this way. Leaves some flexibility if someone can't get back in a timely manner to take their turn.
Turn taking is more fair, though. So either way.

Let's keep it without a defined turn order for now. Wacky rather than fair.

I think it would be better to allow the final turn to be challenged, so maybe the game could end 24 hours after turn 15, instead of immediately. Give people a chance to decide what they want to risk in order to improve their final position.

The clue on the final turn really shouldn't be a clue for 3 (there are only 3 words left, so no way to indicate which one you're selecting!) But you might want to target either 1 or 2 words. So I'm thinking of saying we shouldn't give numbers for any of the clues. It's just understood that the first clue is for 2 words, the last is for 1 or 2, and the rest are for 3.

What if the final guess were automatically pre-challenged by no one in particular?

There is no way to challenge the words that are proposed on turn 15. When you challenge a clue, you are challenging the select/reject aspect of that clue. So if clue 15 is challenged (or pre-challenged), we're just asking which words were proposed by clue 14 and selected/rejected by the clue 15.

When someone gives clue 15, there are only 3 words remaining, 2 of which were proposed by clue 14.
So clue 15 could be for just 1 word (the selected one).
Or clue 15 could be for 2 words (the selected one and another, implying that the unclued word is rejected).
It is up to whoever is giving clue 15 to decide which they want to do, but they can't tell everyone which one they are doing; turn 15 is already easy enough!
Hence just a clue, and no number.

549
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Cardle
« on: February 21, 2022, 06:18:48 am »
Monument:   Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;
Cultist:    Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;
Witch:      Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;
Vault:      Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;
Lost City:  Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;

550
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Cardle
« on: February 21, 2022, 03:36:51 am »
Monument:  Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;
Cultist:   Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;
Witch:     Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;
Vault:     Cost; Trash/Exile/Return; VP; Effect on others; Expansion;

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