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551

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: August 01, 2017, 02:50:29 pm »

It's a pretty good strategy. Except if the new players are educated in the ways of Mafia. And then they usually school the veterans.

For what it's worth, I guess I might as well confess at this point that I did use to play Town of Salem quite a bit. Went cold turkey about 15 months ago, and I plan on never touching it again. But all that did is give me a little information about some PR's (which if you've ever played tos, should shred some light on some of my first-post questions). Other than that, there's 100% absolutely nothing transferable to forum mafia.

Come to think of it, since I'm town, I'm actually enjoying the interrogation since I can't slip up. By all means, please do keep peppering me.

552

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: August 01, 2017, 02:23:12 pm »

In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

Asking questions of newbies is a good way to get them to slip up if they are in fact, scum

Funny enough, the guys in the scum QT actually warned me before the game started that Teproc would probably try that.

553

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: August 01, 2017, 01:56:28 pm »

In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

554

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: August 01, 2017, 01:23:37 pm »

@Teproc - I don't really agree, but I'm just going to drop it at this point since there's nothing more to be accomplished, besides the one unanswered question.

LL, Does Watcher/Tracker get a different result if no visitors/visits than 'No Result'?

As said before, I'm a bad reader - my head will tell me one thing which I know will be wrong based on my luck, which is why I don't really want to be committing to anything yet. In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town? I wouldn't be shocked to see them both be town, or even both scum for that matter. In other words, I don't know.

Speaking of which, how much does scum typically like to conspire, especially day 1? Like, do they plan out who's hopping on which wagon, or is it more, "Do whatever, make it happen"? Also, it anybody wants to give their opinion on who here tends to be a very strong town/scum player, that would be appreciated.

I'll just throw down a Vote: RR in the meantime, same reasoning as TWM. If it's absolutely required, I'll join a bigger wagon, but I'm going to wait a few days to see what else happens first.

555

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: July 31, 2017, 04:01:28 pm »

I'll go by Xx, I like the sound of it.

I mean, it's up to you, but I'm partial to 'Raptor Slayer' myself.

556

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: World Famous Dominion Picture Trivia

« on: July 31, 2017, 03:05:20 pm »

#8: "Loan" Ranger Cute...

#12: Had to do some standard googling to come up with something, but I'll Venture a guess and say Fugitive Doctor

557

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: World Famous Dominion Picture Trivia

« on: July 31, 2017, 02:58:36 pm »

These are fun. What's the current status of the 5th game?

558

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: July 31, 2017, 02:25:54 am »

But even if there is, suppose I'm Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor, mod 1)

A) I'm the doctor (mod 1 is working). In which case, I claim doctor, and either IC myself or set up a WIFOM with 1 scum.

B) I'm the not-doctor (mod 1 is not working). In which case, I can claim "I ain't no doc, but I know nobody here ain't no doc neither!" Which again either IC's myself or sets up a WIFOM.

Wouldn't this just instantly clear like half the town? Am I missing something?

You are missing that if there is no player with the flavor name Precise Alarm Clock if the modification1 is no active. Instead, an additional Good Memories (VT) is added. So it is not possible for a single player to claim "not-Doctor", and it is possible for scum to fakelclaim since they know exactly what modifications are present.

Oh. Scratch my claiming idea then. Sorry to bother you all. Now I actually have to figure out how to read people....

People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.

Well yes, they are likely town. Or if he's scum, they probably have a really savvy partner, like Galzria maybe.

I don't trust anyone yet, but I'll take the compliment.

559

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: July 31, 2017, 01:11:59 am »

If I made a ranking of the best days of the week to get hung over on, Monday is definitely not in the top 2.

TLDR: The set-up gives a lot of information. I would like to use the information by suggesting the idea of everyone claiming day 1, sooner rather than later. I know few if any people will be willing, so I understand it's very unlikely to happen.

560

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: July 31, 2017, 12:09:31 am »

Continued from previous post:

Say we all claim flavor/role (if needed) day 1

So scum's gonna counter certain things. They're not going to claim the same PR/potential-PR multiple times (if 2 people are fighting over alignment cop, a 2nd scum joining instantly identifies 2 scum in a group of 3, which is stupid).

That leaves them with 4 possibilities:
1) All claim a different PR (when I say PR, I'm referring to alignment cop and 5 townies that can be modified)
2) All claim VT (when I say VT, I'm referring to the 3 who have no chance at modification)
3) One claims VT, 2 claim PR
4) One claims PR, 2 claim VT

Take scenario 1. This instantly clears 7 town out of 13, and leaves 3 pairs with 2 suspicious persons each.
(For all below, assume successful night kills of confirmed town)
Day 1: 10 town, 3 scum. Mislynch a town.
Day 2: 8 town, 3 scum. Guaranteed a scum.
Day 3: 7 town, 2 scum. Mislynch.
Day 4: 5 town, 2 scum. Correct
Day 5: 4 town, 1 scum. Mislynch
Day 6: 2 town, 1 scum. Victory
So this one's out the window.

(OK, this is where I start to realize this is indeed a stupid plan, but I'll keep writing)

Scenario 2: All claim a VT
Clears 7, 3 scum among 6 people. It's probably better to ask any VT's to claim first so to protect the 6 PR's from revealing information. Doctor, Watcher, Tracker, and Roleblocker then half-size their target pools. If you guys can't identify 3 scum from a group of 6 known from day 1, I have no idea how you can justify voting this early. I probably can't, but that's because I'm bad.

Scenario 3: Starts same as scenario 1, gets down to the same Day 5: 4 town, 1 scum (with 1 guaranteed innocent). 2 shots at a correct lynch, those seem like pretty good odds to me. Get 1 of the 2 PR lynches correct on the first try, and we're up to 6 vs 1 with 3 guaranteed innocents. This in turn simplifies down to at worst 2 v 1 with 1 guaranteed innocent.

Scenario 4: This is the trickiest I think. Try and find the fake claimer first, and it could be 7 vs 2, but with only 2 confirmed innocents. Or try and knock out 2 scum from a group of 5 first. It's riskier, but it guarantees that we won't be mislynching PR's day 1. If we do claim, this is probably what will happen and will require more thought.

So maybe not all that bad after all? Keep in mind that, with the exception of that one idea in scenario 3, these are all absolute-worst case scenarios where a)town mislynches every day, b)scum succeeds in killing every day, and c)investigatives get no information. I'm useless when it comes to scumhunting, and I like having information. If you want to get mad at me for giving scum ideas, I can understand that. But since I'm town (please have faith), there's guaranteed at least 1 veteran in the scum team. They should better be able to figure out all this for themselves.

Again, still the new guy, so I don't know how well day 1 claiming works in the past, but if you're clearing half the town, that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Thoughts? Claiming roles in addition to flavor is also a mystery. On the one hand, it tells the town what they're up against. On the other, now scum has targets. Probably better to not claim role.

By the way, if you ever see me lurking and taking a long time to post, please note this difference of 45+ minutes between posts as an example of me being a slow writer who likes to think and make sure every word is correct.

Nice to meet everybody! I'm sure we'll get along just fine!

561

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: July 30, 2017, 11:16:47 pm »

First off, is there a way to quote farther back than like 15 posts? Copy and pasting from a second tab is gonna get annoying real quick.

I don't know anybody here and I don't know play styles, don't except me to do any wagoning day 1 (speaking of which, how do you keep all the different people here straight in your head?). I don't know, it seems so strange to me to start accusing with literally no information. I highly doubt this is a product of my newbieness...it just rubs off on me the wrong way, especially since the D1 seems to always result in a mislynch. I'll probably end up voting at some point, but as of <1 irl day, I don't get it yet.

Finally, let's keep up some WIFOM here, but let's say some of these questions may already help mafia POE which PR you are or are no, if you are town. In the future, consult the mafiascum wiki rather than asking here.

Obviously I'd like to think I would have posted the same regardless of if I'm PR or VT, town or skum. And even if there are some differences, good luck telling for sure after my very post in mafia. Also, I don't get the problem with asking questions? Maybe a couple were asked just to be sure (like the roleblockers blocking each other was probably obvious in retrospect), but they seem standard enough for a first-time player to me. In my defense, even you didn't know the answer to one. Sorry if that came off as arrogant, but if I was scum and reading that, I would think the weird new guy has a mental deficiency (which is probably true honestly).

Scummy Skummy--worrying about how game mechanics, misunderstanding them negatively affect mafia. Could be more likely from a scum skum mindset if that is his alignmnet and he sees his chances of winning hurt. But probably just overall wanting the game to be balanced so it is more fun if he is town. So not that scummy skummy.

Overall a townier feel.

Please, I'd love to have something to set me apart.

So now I know how it feels to be town and get read into very thoroughly. Kinda cool actually. Believe me, I'm a terrible liar - If I'm skum, you would know instantly. Also, to your point about worrying about game mechanics, sees chance of winning hurt etc...I just wanna try and find a way to exploit the setup.



And I'm not totally certain claiming is bad. More on my thoughts in a new post...

562

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)

« on: July 30, 2017, 04:31:19 pm »

New faces! Hello everybody!

Hello, I am NewFace! Nice to play with you all. Well, 9 of you at any rate...
Nice to be town so I don't have too much pressure my first game, but if I ever get scum, you'll be able to read me like a book or brochure.

So questions about roles which I have prepared beforehand:

What’s a commuter do?
Does the doctor/target know if they get saved/attacked?
Can a doctor heal himself/watcher watch himself? (and if yes, is there a limit?)
Do Watchers/Trackers get something different than ‘No Result’ if there’s no activity?
If a visiting role gets roleblocked, will the watcher/tracker still see him visit?
If x-shot gets roleblocked while attempting a shot, do they lose a shot?
Can Roleblockers block each other?
Would a non-investigative know if he’s roleblocked?
Role’s don’t get flipped, but the UB will know of their new role and thus know that dead dude had a role, correct?

Can any scum member commit a kill? Do they choose who does it during the night?
Is there still a kill if the roleblocker blocks the last living scum?
Mechanic #2 in the setup: Does this apply to all mafia or just the killer?
Can Ninjas be roleblocked?

I’m definitely not a PR or anything. Just asking for a friend…



And now for questions about setup:
I assume there's a rule about being unable to claim favor. That seems like it would make it too easy.

But even if there is, suppose I'm Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor, mod 1)

A) I'm the doctor (mod 1 is working). In which case, I claim doctor, and either IC myself or set up a WIFOM with 1 scum.

B) I'm the not-doctor (mod 1 is not working). In which case, I can claim "I ain't no doc, but I know nobody here ain't no doc neither!" Which again either IC's myself or sets up a WIFOM.

Wouldn't this just instantly clear like half the town? Am I missing something?


(And if you're wondering, I've looked through enough mafia games that I am now a lingo master)

563

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Civility Pledge

« on: July 28, 2017, 03:35:15 am »

/pledge

564

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (1 spot!)

« on: July 28, 2017, 03:34:54 am »

So a little about me:

I am a horrible liar.
I am a horrible lie detector.
I crack under pressure easily.
If I play, I will very likely spend way too much time lurking and will ruin my life.
I may hate it and/or get overwhelmed and become apathetic very quickly.
Or worse, I may get addicted and continue to ruin my life.
I am very unfamiliar with mafia.
I would rather focus my free time on playing Dominion than on playing mafia.


However, there's 2 other important points.

1. If I'm going to spend as much time as I have been recently glancing through mafia games, I'm going to crack eventually and sign up for a game, so better sooner rather than later while it's still summer.

& 2 and most important: I would be remiss to spend as much time on the forum as I do and not give "Skummy Skumpy" a chance....




so /in

Looking forward to it!

565

Tournaments and Events / Re: Yet another Dualset Tournament!

« on: July 24, 2017, 12:17:35 pm »

We played it a little bit ago.

Chris is me 2 - skumpy 3

G1: C Empires S Dark Ages - CS SW - 5026481
G2: S Seaside C Corn SS CW - 5026809
G3: C Prosperity S Guilds CS SW - 5027193
G4: S Intrigue C Hinterlands - SS CW - 5027659
G5: C Base Set S Promo CS SW - 5028099

Simon DK said he's out of town until around the end of the month, so we'll try and schedule our match soon, I'd imagine. Apologies to everyone still in the tournament who(m) I've been keeping waiting.

566

Other Games / Re: Escape the Room

« on: July 16, 2017, 01:20:59 am »

Just did one for my first time - highly recommend them to everybody here. Based on general escape room reviews, I think ours was on the cheaper and more poorly produced end of the spectrum, but if that was one of the worse ones out there, that bodes very well for me doing and enjoying more in the future.

We made it out with 12 minutes to spare after using 2 of 3 hints, which apparently is excellent even though I felt like we (and mostly me) were garbage, though I made my key contributions here and there. Definitely would love to do more.

567

Tournaments and Events / Re: Dominion Team World Cup II Signups (signups closed)

« on: July 14, 2017, 01:25:37 pm »

Are you looking for this?

568

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Edge Cases: Why Do Something Ridiculous?

« on: July 13, 2017, 03:30:14 pm »

Not revealing Gold for Encampment?

You want to cover up the Plunders so your opponent can't buy them or you don't want to trigger 3-pile ending.

Or you're ending the game but want to take away your opponent's Tower points

569

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Least thematic card?

« on: July 11, 2017, 01:54:32 am »

Museum seems to be fantastically thematic - it gets better the more diversity you add to it. But the more you think about it, the more problems you run into, i.e. "Check it out, I've got a Vagrant in my Museum!"

570

Dominion League / Re: Season 22 - Results

« on: July 11, 2017, 12:18:01 am »

C1: Skumpy 4 - Dylan32 2

I'll play in 23.

571

Tournaments and Events / Re: Yet another Dualset Tournament!

« on: July 09, 2017, 03:41:53 pm »

Lol. Chris, you posted in the wrong Dualset tournament.

Chris is me 2 - skumpy 3

G1: C Empires S Dark Ages - CS SW - 5026481
G2: S Seaside C Corn SS CW - 5026809
G3: C Prosperity S Guilds CS SW - 5027193
G4: S Intrigue C Hinterlands - SS CW - 5027659
G5: C Base Set S Promo CS SW - 5028099

572

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The swingiest card ever

« on: July 07, 2017, 02:40:43 pm »

If to you "swingy" means something that often gives one player a strong early advantage that the other often has insufficient good chances of countering, Black Market is not swingy.

As breppert says, the what and when is extremely important. Say there's weak/no trashing on the board. If you find a Chapel/Steward/Amulet/heck even Rats, on your very first Black Market play and I have to wait until my fifth BM play before stumbling on an Apprentice (which can absolutely happen), that's a huge early advantage that's basically impossible to overcome. Going the other direction, King's Court is a wonderful card to have around, but I don't want it to be in my first flip because I can't afford it yet.

You can have unlucky outcomes with the Black Market that determine some games, we know this.

= swing

But at the same time it also leads to many more important choices that are in the player's control, not fewer, and so is possibly the best card in all Dominion in terms of rewarding skilled play.

Fair enough, but this is only true when events like the one above don't happen first. There are plenty of games with no swing. Maybe the swindlers do equal damage to both players deck. Warriors almost never hit the other player's (or players'). If one player gets the first Big-3 Prize, the other player can often get one of the remaining 2. Players can have equal/close to equal luck with Sentry and Sauna. You get the idea. The point is, just because Black Market is a high-skill level card (certainly more than any of the options in the poll at any rate) doesn't mean there isn't also a huge luck factor involved that can early and quickly turn the tide.

573

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest

« on: June 29, 2017, 04:25:44 pm »

The point you've realized and are dancing around is that these rankings are actually quite pointless and just done for fun. They give an illusion of helpfulness, but they are an arbitrary guideline at best no matter how they are organized. Context is just a huge factor in making purchase decisions. It doesn't matter if mountebank is "mathematically" better than an upgrade; if I need upgrade, I'll get upgrade. That's just one case, and there are countless scenarios where these rankings are no good at all. To get back to the potion thing, you are correct that the potion ranking is virtually meaningless. I laugh at anyone saying possession is a bad card or somehow worse than apothecary when it can be such a deeply centralizing card. However, I also recognize that the two cards are incomparable, not just because of their prices but because of many other factors. The same is true of something like triumph, which has the potential to be a total game decider, but is a lowly #10 here.  An even greater problem with the lists is that the voters a) have completely different ideas of what makes a card better than another b) might have used completely different sorting tools and c) all have different understandings of the game. The more time goes by and the better you get at the game, the less these lists will be useful. If they are helpful to someone starting out, okay, but I think that thinking of things in a strict order like this is ultimately detrimental. What the lists prove above all else is that dominion is too complicated to adhere to this method.

The only thing I'd have to say in response is that, speaking as somebody who did learn a lot from these lists, it's not the small Mountebank vs Upgrade differences that teach new players, it's the Mountebank vs Saboteur chasms. I didn't know what I was doing for a long time, so learning what cards are deceptively weak/strong (and after getting experience, why) is a big help. Obviously, while the rankings are imprecise, they're pretty darn accurate when it comes to the significant differences in quality (though not without some rare exceptions: case and point, compare the change in opinion for Tunnel and Develop over the years).

But thank you for the answer jsh, basically put into words my inner feelings as you yourself said. Agree with 99.99+ percent of it.

574

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest

« on: June 29, 2017, 03:45:11 pm »

I'm the new guy around these parts, so please forgive me for any unintended impertinence, but I don't really understand the point of the potion cost list. Like, I used the rankings a lot to compare similar cost cards and learn what were good buys, but I don't get a whole lot out of comparing, say, Possession vs University. The lists are 5 years old at this point and while I understand that changing stuff up isn't really needed and I get that there are significant differences between $ and potions (such as multiple potion-card buys in 1 turn are rare, can't open with a potion-card, etc), I personally think treating potion costs as $3 would be a bigger help to newer players. (I could do similar rants about doing a breakdown of the 6+ cards since there's twice as many now as at the beginning and also about how ranking peddler as an $8 is confusing, but one rant's my daily quota and I don't want to make even more mountains out of molehills than I already have for a pretty well-established system).

Having said all that, thank you very much for the updates Qvist; like everybody else here, I appreciate the work you've put in. While stats and videos are nice of course, they're just the peanuts on this ice cream sundae of rankings. Stumbling upon your 2013 list review videos was how I discovered f.ds and the immense amount of strategy discussion I wasn't aware of, so I owe you a further thank you.



My reactions (because I should probably try and contribute at least something): I don't see a clear difference between King's Court and Donate at the top. I'd probably go King's Court #1 because if you consider an arbitrary board with 1 and not the other, Donate would very likely enable the engine, but King's Court can really make it boom even without trashing, and that's assuming Donate would've been the only trasher - there's not really any good comparisons for King's Court.

I don't have a whole of lot of experience with landmarks yet even 7 months later, but they seem pretty dang close to what I would rate them. Wall and Keep would've been my top 2. Fountain seems too high at 4. I think it's skippable frequently enough and even when it's a good investment, it usually doesn't require too much of a strategy adjustment. I'm really bad with Mountain Pass games, but it also seems a touch too high. It certainly doesn't suggest a need to rush for the first Province like Tournament does. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Bandit Fort drop in the years to come. The penalty is harsh and I think it scares too many players (such as myself) into avoiding Silver and Gold altogether, but trashing them in the endgame is a very valid option. I'd like to see Tomb and Tower rise. I definitely feel like there's a pretty clear drop off in quality after Defiled Shrine. But yeah, all in all, it feels pretty accurate.

575

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Edge Cases: Why Do Something Ridiculous?

« on: June 27, 2017, 03:16:25 pm »

Not revealing moat: Speed up/Force pile-out with curses
Not revealing province(or horse traders): Prevent (or enable) a +2 actions Diplomat. Extreme edge case for tournament: Limiting Library options (say they're trying to find 3 golds, but tournament makes them draw a dead action).
Playing Outpost on Outpost: The usual Peddler/Conspirator improving. Or Diplomat.

Intentional Alms: I have no clue....