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Messages - humcalc216

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51
New list up. Alchemy. Man oh man Alchemy.

Based on what you did for Base, shouldn't Potion be on here somewhere?  I have no clue how it's possible to rank Potion, though.

52
I think my original solution may have miscounted Coppers in a 3-player game.  I picked 3 players to make Harem a 12-card pile, but 7 extra coppers would be more treasures than 2 extra Harems (because in 2-player we'd use something other than Harem) and 4 Estate-Crowns, which my original solution did not consider.  So, there's a good chance my score is off by 7, but I'm too lazy to go back and recount everything to make sure.

Regarding stealing Coppers with Masquerade, the way I stipulated how opponents behave this may be difficult:
Your opponents play as follows: they never play any cards. They never buy anything. When one of them has to make a decision not covered by these rules, they all resign and the game ends.

However, if you Crown a Thief and your opponents have at most 3 non-treasure cards in their decks you're guaranteed to hit a treasure, if they have one in their draw/discard pile. So long as they only have Copper and have at least one, Cutpurse is guaranteed to provide Thief a target. Once you have stolen everyone's Copper, you can use Masquerade to trade Copper for Estate and use Cutpurse+Thief to steal back the Copper, effectively stealing one estate.
This is why I didn't use Masquerade.  And I didn't use Thief because it's removed (though maybe that's not a good enough reason).  And, does having to pass an Estate from a hand of 3 Estates count as a "decision"?

As far as gaining all of the remaining supply treasures, it's definitely possible.  In my solution, Treasure Trove gains you the Copper and Gold, and you can start with all of 2 piles.  In my solution, that was originally Banks an Capitals, but let's make it Platina and Banks.  We need to gain Silver, Potion, and 9 Kingdom Treasures.  Let's assume those are Fool's Gold, Loan, Talisman, Crown, Venture, Capital, Royal Seal, Charm, and Harem.  Here's how we can gain everything:
Silver: Trusty Steed
Potion: Workshop (BM)
Crown, Venture, Capital: KC (BM)-Artisan (BM)
Talisman, Royal Seal, Charm: Royal Carriage (BM) called on KC, KC-Altar (BM), trashing Fortress (BM) 3 times
Fool's Gold, Loan: Engineer (BM), trashing it
Harem: Forge (BM), trashing Tournament and Lurker
Throw enough extra Villages into the BM to let us play all these.


And, the amount of draw from 10 Madmen is insane.  From a 5-card hand, you can get up to 3074 cards in hand by playing 10 Madmen, and 386 from 7 Madmen, which is plenty to draw this deck.  And, it's easy enough to start with your whole deck in hand at the start of the turn.  I presented a solution for this, and others have presented other solutions as well.

53
I can get 253 (edit), which I'm sure can be optimized significantly.

Kingdom: (Note: I'm intentionally not using Nocturne cards)
Fool's Gold (bane)
Black Market
Cache
Capital
Charm
Contraband
Royal Seal
Treasure Trove
Harem
Hoard
Bank

BM Deck contains (at minimum): Hermit, Lurker, Young Witch, Poor House, Fortune, Philosopher's Stone, Bandit Camp, Tournament, Rocks, Plunder, Talisman, Ill-Gotten Gains, Humble Castle, Crown, Stash, Horn of Plenty, Coin of the Realm, Loan, Quarry, Venture, Counterfeit, Relic, Bazaar, Mining Village

Setup: Deck contains 10 Madmen, a Trusty Steed, a Diadem, a Poor House, 15 Spoils, 11 (edit) Platina, 10 Banks, 10 Capitals, and all but one card of every other kingdom pile.  It's a 3-player game, so there are 12 Harems (of which you have 11).  You also have one copy of every treasure in the Black Market.  Assuming I counted correctly, this is 267 treasures.  Additionally, you have a Bazaar and a Mining Village, and you still have a Bandit Camp.  (You also probably have other cards in your deck, such as a Tournament, a Province, and the Lurker which you used to get the Hermit back a bunch of times and get more Madmen, but these cards don't matter.)

Start: You have 5 Madmen in hand and 5 on top of your deck

Play 8 Madmen to draw your deck.  Play Bazaar, Mining Village (trashing it), and Bandit Camp.  Play 9 Black Markets.  On the ninth one, play Treasure Trove (gaining the last Copper and Gold), then 5 Capitals, then 8 Banks, then a Fortune, for a total of $258.  Play Steed for coins and Silvers (gaining the last Silver).  Play Madman to draw the new treasures.  Play Poor House.

Your hand contains 253 treasures, assuming I counted correctly.  Before you reveal your hand, you had $264.  Afterward, you have $11, for a score of 253.

You can rather easily improve on this by

1. on the last Black Market play, buy Mandarin from the Black Market to topdeck all Treasures you played so far and be able to draw them with the last Madman (before that, make sure you played enough Treasures to get at least $293).
2. Replace one of your kingdom treasures with Crown, put Ferry+Inheritance in the kingdom, inherit Crowns. In 3p, this can give you a maximum of 21 Estate-Crowns that are also Treasures.


This puts the maximum score (for 3p) up to 287. (EDIT: Had to remove $1 due to the Crown set aside by Inheritance).

Also, I'm pretty sure you can put a bunch of gainers in the Black Market in order to gain all the remaining Treasures in the supply.

Another way to improve it:

Have a Hireling and a Procession in the Black Market.  Have enough Hirelings played so your entire deck is in your hand to start the turn.  Have a Vault from the Black Market. Play a village of some sort, then play Vault, discarding all your Treasures.  Then, play Madmen to redraw them all, then play Poor House.


And, yes, you can have enough gainers in the BM.  Just switch out some expensive unused Kingdom treasures for cheaper ones.  With Throne Room, King's Court, and Royal Carriage, you can play 3 Artisans, 3 Altars, and 3 Forges.  You can then Workshop/Ironworks/Engineer/Armory/Whatever to gain the rest.  (And, of course, save a Madman to draw them all.)  In this scenario, you need to discard a few extra cards to your Vault, but you have all the stuff from the BM you're gonna Forge, so it all works.

54
Right.  I meant to have only 2 piles empty.  So subtract 1 from my total.

55
I can get 253 (edit), which I'm sure can be optimized significantly.

Kingdom: (Note: I'm intentionally not using Nocturne cards)
Fool's Gold (bane)
Black Market
Cache
Capital
Charm
Contraband
Royal Seal
Treasure Trove
Harem
Hoard
Bank

BM Deck contains (at minimum): Hermit, Lurker, Young Witch, Poor House, Fortune, Philosopher's Stone, Bandit Camp, Tournament, Rocks, Plunder, Talisman, Ill-Gotten Gains, Humble Castle, Crown, Stash, Horn of Plenty, Coin of the Realm, Loan, Quarry, Venture, Counterfeit, Relic, Bazaar, Mining Village

Setup: Deck contains 10 Madmen, a Trusty Steed, a Diadem, a Poor House, 15 Spoils, 11 (edit) Platina, 10 Banks, 10 Capitals, and all but one card of every other kingdom pile.  It's a 3-player game, so there are 12 Harems (of which you have 11).  You also have one copy of every treasure in the Black Market.  Assuming I counted correctly, this is 267 treasures.  Additionally, you have a Bazaar and a Mining Village, and you still have a Bandit Camp.  (You also probably have other cards in your deck, such as a Tournament, a Province, and the Lurker which you used to get the Hermit back a bunch of times and get more Madmen, but these cards don't matter.)

Start: You have 5 Madmen in hand and 5 on top of your deck

Play 8 Madmen to draw your deck.  Play Bazaar, Mining Village (trashing it), and Bandit Camp.  Play 9 Black Markets.  On the ninth one, play Treasure Trove (gaining the last Copper and Gold), then 5 Capitals, then 8 Banks, then a Fortune, for a total of $258.  Play Steed for coins and Silvers (gaining the last Silver).  Play Madman to draw the new treasures.  Play Poor House.

Your hand contains 253 treasures, assuming I counted correctly.  Before you reveal your hand, you had $264.  Afterward, you have $11, for a score of 253.

56
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What do you forget IRL?
« on: October 28, 2017, 10:42:16 am »
To exchange Travellers

Also the topdecking on Graverobber

57
Dominion: Nocturne Previews / Re: Bonus Preview #2: Faithful Hound
« on: October 24, 2017, 12:50:51 pm »
Hound/Quest: Gain a gold basically every turn

May be way too slow, but it's pretty funny

58
Borrow + Margrave
Starting with a 4-card hand isn't so bad if your opponent is Margraving you every turn.

59
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« on: October 11, 2017, 08:30:39 pm »
When I play IRL, we usually pick a few expansions to play with (and we typically put Black Market in Cornucopia, because reasons).  If BM comes up, we pick another expansion to be the Black Market Deck and use the randomizers (and fetch the regular card once bought).

How would split piles work, if you're using the blue backs?

When Empires is the BM deck, we do "Quantum Split Piles."  If a split randomizer comes up, we randomly pick one of the cards for it to be.  If it's not bought and comes up again, it can be different the next time.

60
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Night cards speculation
« on: August 09, 2017, 02:32:07 pm »
I'm not sure how this is related to night cards. I get the idea that a card changes between two abilities by being exchanged on every play, and that's a cool idea, too. But I don't see the connection to Nights if they indeed are a phase of the same turn. After all you won't discard a bat until the cleanup phase, which happens after Night (probably). Are you thinking about playing Bat in your action phase, changing it to Vampire and playing it again at night, then changeing it back? Because in that case, why would you need two physical cards for that?

My plan was for you to play the Vampire in a later turn, during that turn's Night phase.

61
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Night cards speculation
« on: August 08, 2017, 02:41:58 pm »
I am pretty sure that Donald X did not miss the chance to follow the flavor that vampires or werwolves have: At night they turn into someting different. The bat becomes a vampire, the blacksmith turns into werewolve, the statue changes into the spooky women. Nocturne's flavor text hints into this direction too.
Then, why not have them change back after the night.  So, Bat could have a Hermit-like clause, "When you discard this from play, return it to the supply and gain a Vampire from the Vampire pile," and Vampire could say "When you discard this from play, return it to the Vampire pile and gain a Bat."  Making one-shot Night cards would also somewhat solve the stop-card issue.

62
Counting House + Secret Passage

Get a bunch of Secret Passages and use them to put a Counting House 5th from the bottom.  Helps to have some source of nonterminal +buy (in this case, Market) to put next to the Counting House.

From the same game:

Cellar + Secret Passage

Putting a bunch of junk on the bottom of your deck with Secret Passage?  Put a Cellar down there too!

63
No copper trashing, but strong engine with +buy.  Draw deck.  KC-KC-Coppersmith-Coppersmith-Coppersmith.  That is all.  (I don't remember the whole board, but I definitely remember having $10 coppers.)

64
Apprentice/Rocks.  It gives your Apprentices 3 things to trash.

65
Other interesting Lurker interactions I've experienced:

Lurker/Border Village/TfB (in this case, Replace).  Gaining Border Villages out of the trash triggers their when-gain ability.

Lurker/Knights.  In an engine mirror playing these cards, it turns into a lengthy contest for who can end up with all of the Knights.

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