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Messages - grrgrrgrr

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76
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 01, 2022, 11:38:04 am »
All the new while in play and when gain changes are good, especially for Quarry and Mint, though I don't totally get the Hoard one--is there a reason this can't just be on-gain?

Utterly OP with Hunting Grounds and Sprawling Castle.

I think it is also just future proofing. If there is a card that allows you to exchange a gained Gold for a Duchy, for example, then things could get quite hairy. (and honestly, I think Harem should have the added effect "in games using this, when you gain a Gold, you gain a Harem instead". But that'd mandate Harem to have two horizontal lines, which is a big no-no)

Anvil seems like a really fun card. But I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been more interesting in say Nocturne, where it could've handed out a different Boon each time instead of always giving the Earth's Gift.

With most boons, this would be pretty bland and weak (especially considering this is a Treasure). So no, bad idea.

77
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« on: May 31, 2022, 05:02:45 pm »
Magnate seems to be a budget Marquis and a really pathetic one at that. I really wish that it also had a bit more going for on turns where it only gets drawn with 0,1 or 2 Treasures. It's a really bad when it is a lesser Smithy a lot of times.

The rest (from day 1 and 2) are cool though.

78
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Revised versions of published cards
« on: May 29, 2022, 04:51:20 pm »
I can't help but feel that the design process of Circle of Witches was a little overfocussed on making certain cards Cursers (that can't be blocked), leading to a clunky result. A better version, IMO, would be:

Quote
Circle of Witches
At start of Clean-up, you may spend 3 Favors to have each other player gain a Curse. Repeat as desired.

I also feel like Elder is not only little underpowered, but also has an annoying desinteraction with Command cards and Way of the Chameleon. What about the following version? (sorry if this is premature)

Quote
Elder (Action, $5)
+1 Action
$2
Take an Elder token. (when you are instructed to choose between abilities (using the word "Choose"), you may spend an Elder token to take an extra (different) option)

79
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« on: May 18, 2022, 05:02:04 pm »
Kinda cute how texts go from "when you buy" to "when you gain during your Buy Phase". First Merchant Guild, now Treasury. It definitely makes the cards fit more organically with events that feel like buying cards, such as Alms and Ride. I'm really curious how Goons is going to be in Prosperity E2.

The errata Treasury got also kills its incredible synergy with Dominate.

Two of the cards that were revealed today are actually more like modern-expansion cards. Sailor is really a Renaissance card, as that card lets you play cards outside of their intended phase. Pirate is a Menagerie card, as it's a card that can play itself through its reaction.

And I'm glad that Seaside has now Duration Attacks; it was kinda lame how all attacks of the Duration introducing expansion were non-Durations. It is kinda ironic that the only attack that survived the cut, Cutpurse, is the attack that IMO was most deserving of a cut. As it's basically just a really shitty Militia.

80
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E
« on: May 09, 2022, 06:14:15 pm »
9 cards is pretty excessive and just like with Seaside, the cuts also include cards that aren't turning the games into 9-card kingdoms 99.99% of the time. Not sure how I feel about this, but we will see when the 2nd editions actually release.

Anyway, my predictions from most likely to least likely. The first three are cards that we can miss easily without replacements that replicate those cards. For the rest, removing seems a pretty bold move.
1. Royal Seal: This is just a boring card that is extremely unreliable at being anything more than just a $5 costing Silver. While this was always weak, Way of the Seal and Bauble make this thing look incredibly stupid.
2. Trade Route: A very poor trasher, very poor source of +Buy, and Forager does whatever this card tries to achieve insurmountably better. It also doesn't help that this card is super wordy and requires additional tokens.
3. Contraband: This card has a penalty that makes this card borderline unusable in pretty much any board, unless your opponent is really missing your strategy. As a source of +Buy, it is also pretty much the worst as its penalty completely negates the ability to bypass the dreaded one-province-per-turn limit. (and generally, a $5 gold just isn't interesting these days)
4. Venture: This is a card that used to be regarded quite fondly, but just has no place anymore these days. It is completely useless with draw, and it is also pretty bad without Copper trashing. And even outsite of these cases, it is still rather unimpressive. And of course, comparing favorably to Adventurer no longer counts.
5. Loan: This card isn't too bad, but becomes pretty luck based as soon as a second Treasure that you don't wanna get rid of enters your deck. And what does this trasher bring on table that other trashers don't? It is also the card that Donald X originally considered as "the only dud of Prosperity".
6. Hoard: It is a fine card, albeit on the uninteresting side. The real kicker against this card is that it is almost exclusively useable in Province games; a really bad feat for a Prosperity card.
7. Counting House: It is part of the utterly obscene combo called Counting House + Travelling Fair, which some consider to be the strongest synergy within the entirety of Dominion. But does it ever get used outside of that scenario? Prior to Adventures, the answer is yes (but very sparsely), and it was satisfying to massacre unsuspecting players with this, but nowadays it really doesn't seem to be.
8. Goons: This card is a pretty frustrating to play against, as the handsize attack causes makes it difficult to come back when falling behind. Another thing to consider is that fact that Donald X wants to retcon the use of "While this is in play" out of existence. While the solution is trivial in most cases, Goons's in-play effect really shouldn't be Throneable.
9. Mountebank: I've never really had much problems with this card. But it is not very Prosperity-y and if there is another Curser in store for 2E, then this one should go. And yes, handing out 2 junk cards on a singular play is excessive, as is being able to junk even when the Curse pile is depleted.

81
Rules Questions / Re: King's Court + Royal Carriage + Duration Card
« on: April 25, 2022, 01:42:15 pm »
I honestly think they should put a full stop to this whole TR stays aside stuff and introduce Replay tokens. If you play an Action twice, you put one token onto it. If you play it thrice, you put two tokens onto it. I think that'd solve lots of problems. It could be something for Seaside E2.
(Sorry if this isn't the appropriate place to bring this up)

82
Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!

I don't get this one... are you just saying because it lets you gain Possessions easily?
It lets you gain Possessions easier than anything we have seen before; the significance of that cannot be overstated enough. On top of that, Voyage is also excellent for getting multiple Possession plays.

In the game on which I got this interaction, I opened with Old Map, got a Voyage and a Sunken Treasure, and always cycled until Distant Shore was on top. My opponent underestimated the importance of that pile (or should I say: the urgency of getting stuff thereof) and got none of these. By the time I played my first Possession (on a Voyage turn), I had two of these, and my opponent was like: "let's get the hell out of here."

83
Marquis + Way of the Chameleon
Do I need to explain this? Marquis becomes a ridiculous, and I mean, RIDICULOUS source of money.

Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!

84
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Innovation
« on: April 03, 2022, 07:09:06 am »
Looks cool overall. Somethings I notices so far:
a) You used "while this is play" on two cards, making it work incorrectly with BoM/Overlord. For neither card, this is necessary.
b) What sets Reserves apart from Patron? Also, are you aware why Patron's ability is now restricted to the Action phase?
c) Depot should use "you may"

85
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Allies First Impressions
« on: March 28, 2022, 09:38:29 am »
I know it's bad to rip people on their first-impression votes, but this is quite frankly embarrassing. Do you really think that Donald X would've greenlighted this card if this was really 0-worthy? Especially considering this has no expansion-specific mechanics and Donald is now extremely experienced with designing Dominion cards?

As I said, I don't think it's completely worthless. I also made a writing mistake in that post: I meant to say I was doing an intra-set comparison, not an inter-set comparison. That is, I was comparing the Allies cards relative to each other with no regard to any other expansions. But either way, if giving a card a 0 is "embarrassing", then I'm wondering why we were given that option in the first place.

My apologies for my harshness, and you are free to rank the cards however you like. Personally, however, I'd keep 0's for the complete duds; cards that either cause the board to be a 9-pile board in virtually all setups, or cards that are just very poorly designed. Which is extremely unlikely on newer sets but not outright impossible. And I, and many others, completely disagree with your take on Swap (it is #1 on the Thunderdominion card list). But you just shared your first impression and I "penalized" you by answering so harshly and that was bad of me.

86
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Allies First Impressions
« on: March 27, 2022, 04:11:30 pm »
Swap having such a high variance: This seems like its usefulness depends heavily on the kingdom. I gave it a 0, not because it's completely useless but because I was only doing an inter-set comparison and this definitely seemed like the weakest card relative to its cost. It's basically a cross between Advance and Transmogrify, but it lacks the main thing that makes those two useful: the fact that they're "always there when you need them". With Swap you have to collide with a good target when you play it, which can be difficult. If you're relying on Swap to save your engine in case it duds, it seems like it would be better just to buy more villages, especially since villages are usually cheaper than Swap.

I know it's bad to rip people on their first-impression votes, but this is quite frankly embarrassing. Do you really think that Donald X would've greenlighted this card if this was really 0-worthy? Especially considering this has no expansion-specific mechanics and Donald is now extremely experienced with designing Dominion cards?

It is absolutely nothing like Advance. The comparison with Transmog is slightly more sensible, but it is still very flawed. First, it only works on starting hands, so it is definitely not "always here when needed". And it is also hindered by the fact that is played over two turns and is a stop card.

From my limited experience, Swap is a powerhouse. You can swap Ruins, cheap actions and actions that outran their usefulness for 5-costs with Swap, which is very nice with +Buy. And tech that is situationally useful like Library also becomes much more valuable. But Swap requires to approach Dominion differently and it is also somewhat difficult to gauch if it is the next Recruiter, or if it is the next Rebuild. (and it also had a fairly high chance to pop up with Sycophant, which biases the experience considerably)

Lol @ Townsfolk being within the top 20%, as a "9" would imply. Absolutely ludicrous.

Sycophant, Merchant Camp, Forts, Galleria are the only piles the community rated lower than Townsfolk. That's fair -- but all those piles do something/serve a role that can add an interesting angle to a kingdom, whereas Townsfolk mostly take up space. Lamest pile of the set, give me any other random pile instead.

Townsfolk's claim to faim is that Town Crier is pretty sweet for a $2 cost early on. And there are also a few boards where Elder is good, but with almost any "Choose N" card, it screams Nombo.

I'm also quite surprised at AdamH's take on this, but I also know he is a very good Dominion player, so he might be right.


87
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Revised versions of published cards
« on: March 21, 2022, 06:20:45 pm »
What I find kinda irksome, is that Black Market cards have no pile. This means that the stop moving rule comes into play whenever you try to return a Black Market card to the supply using Way of the Horse, Swap or Way of the Butterfly. This means that the latter two straight up don't work with BM, while the former gets rather overpowered. But isn't the Black Market deck supposed to be "their pile"? Here an attempt to fix this.



I know this is rather superfluous, and it'd also mandate a fixing in the wordings of Encampment and Experiment (to use "its pile" instead of "the supply").

And a better fix might be to somewhat fix the stop moving rule into: if a card tries to move out of your deck and has no destination, it goes to the trash. But that obviously opens its own can of worms with Fortresses originating from BM, and returning to the supply is probably too uncommon to warrant a "fix" like this.

Research's setting aside and missing shuffles makes it not all that fun.

IMO

Research
Action - $4
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a Horse per $1 it costs.

The horses could be top decked but without the duration type and setting aside it's a big buff.

Honestly, I think Garrison has the perfect solution to this. Just put a token on this per $1 the trashed card costs, and at the start of your next turn, remove the tokens for +1 card per token removed. (and it's a Renaissance card, which makes the solution extra perfect)

88
I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.

On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.

On the same token, Captain+Way of the Horse is also hilariously strong.

(I'm also wondering: does it really have to be this way? Can't cards from the Black Market have the Black Market Deck as "its pile"?)

89
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies is online
« on: March 15, 2022, 06:06:02 am »
Yeah, I still believe that the only types with intrinsic rules are Action, Treasure, Night and maybe Duration.

I don't think that's true. For instance, the type Looter has the intrinsic rule "Ruins are in the supply for this game"; Liaison means "everyone starts with a Favor and you have to choose an Ally".

You're right. Other types can also have a third functionality, namely a setup change (which means they do something when the game starts). Completely forgot about that lol.

90
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies is online
« on: March 14, 2022, 06:06:12 pm »
The difference is that all the rules dealing with reactions are not actually limited to reactions. If a card were printed with all the exact same wordings as Black Cat, but without the reaction type, then you would still be able to play it from your hand when an opponent gains a victory card. This is different than Treasure, because if a card were printed that had all the same words as Horn of Plenty, but without the Treasure type, then you would not be allowed to play it during your buy phase.

In other words, no matter how much the rulebook describes the way in which reactions work, adding reaction as a type to a card doesn’t actually change its functionality. It is no different than adding the Attack type to a card.

These are just rule clarifications that apply to "Reactions that can play themselves". The reason they went for this route is because they didn't want to state this four times, and it would also ease things up when a future expansion has more of these kinds of Reactions.

Rules determine how the game is played, and then there are other things in the rule book that help you understand or remember what the rules are and what they do in various situations, like explanations, clarifications, example situations, etc. The part about Reactions is the latter whereas the part about Treasures is the former.

I see what you are getting at, but I think there isn't as clear a distinction as you suggest. If you go back to the base set rules, nothing specifically says that "if a card instructs you to play an Action card, it does not use an Action," but that is explained in the "Notes" for Throne Room and Vassal. Thus, those "notes" effectively are part of the rules. By Nocturn there is no such clarification for Conclave or Imp. 
 
It may, in theory, be the case that if a Reaction wasn't called a Reaction that it would still work the same, but the fact is that cards that do things at unusual times are Reactions. Whether that's a rule that governs players or a rule that governs how the game is design, it's still, by any reasonable description, a rule.

Also, at least one of the Menagerie rules is in no way suggested by the existing rules of the game:

Quote
If you play a card on someone else's turn, you discard it in that turn's Clean-up, unless it is a Duration card with things left to do.
(Menagerie rule book p. 4).

As far as I'm aware, nothing anywhere in the rules suggests that you would discard cards during another player's clean-up, until this rule.

Yeah, I still believe that the only types with intrinsic rules are Action, Treasure, Night and maybe Duration. All other types either exist to recolor the card, or as a referent. And obviously, types also have an intuitive characterization, and it'd be bad design to violate that characterization without extremely strong justification. (I honestly also dislike that Masquerade isn't an Attack, although I can definitely see why they went for that route). Don't forget, however, that on-gain and on-trash effects are also unusually timed effects that don't warrant the Reaction typing.

91
If you buy Band of Misfits in a kingdom with Family of Inventors, your opponent can screw you over by making BoM cheaper.

They can also nerf Remodel and its enhanced variants by making Gold/Platinum cheaper.

Another annoying anti-synergy is Courier + Herb Gatherer. You'd think Herb Gatherer can give Courier a maximum array of targets. But then you realize Courier starts with "Discard the top card of your deck". Yikes.

92
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies is online
« on: March 12, 2022, 04:20:25 am »
We must not forget that Reactions and Reserves are typings that cause the card to have a different color. And that is really the reason these types exist. Reactions in particular have a passive effect that occurs/can occur at an unusual timing, and this effect exists every time you draw the card. If these card had a normal color, it would be way too easy to forget those Reactions.

(and with Reserves, it's also future-proofing. I mean, they could introduce a card that lets you immediately move a Reserve to its mat upon gaining.)

Reactions have different rules about when/how they are played. No cards directly refer to "Reserve" or "Night" cards either, but they are also subject to their own rules about when/how they are played/used.

I don't think there are any rules for Reactions in general, are there? I mean, the Adventures rule book describes how Reserve cards work ("Reserve cards are tan, and have an ability that puts them on the Tavern mat") and the Nocturne rule book describes how Night cards work ("In your Night phase, you can play any number of Night cards"), but is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?

The rule book for the base set describes rules for Reactions:
Quote
Reaction: These are cards that can be used in some way at an unusual time. Any such use is spelled out on the Reaction card; for example Moat says it can be revealed when another player plays an Attack card. Reactions are used one at a time (which matters for expansion Reactions).
(p. 6).
All types have a description. And the last part holds true for triggers in general. But this is such a prevalent thing among non-Moat Reactions, it doesn't hurt to restate it here.

Quote
The Menagerie rule book has an entire section on Reactions:

Quote
Menagerie has five Reaction cards. Four of them can be played at an unusual time: Black Cat, Falconer, Sheepdog, and Village Green.
  • Playing one of these Reactions using its ability (the text below the dividing line) puts it into play, like playing it normally, but does not use up an Action.
  • If you play a card on someone else's turn, you discard it in that turn's Clean-up, unless it is a Duration card with things left to do.
  • If playing one of these Reactions draws you another Reaction that can be used at the same time, you can use it, and so on. For example, you might have one Black Cat in hand when an opponent gains a Province, play it, draw another, play it, draw another, play it.
  • When playing one of these Reactions, you can choose to use a Way if there is one.
  • If multiple players want to do things at the same time - such as play Reactions - the player first in turn order (starting from the player whose turn it is) goes first. This may change who wants to do what; after each thing, start again from the first player and see who has things to do.
  • Sometimes a condition occurs that allows a Reaction to be played, and that Reaction creates a second condition that allows Reactions to be played. Resolve all Reactions for the new condition and then go back to resolving ones for the first one. For example one player gains a Province, and another plays Black Cat. Gaining a Curse from Black Cat allows players to play Sheepdogs; after resolving those you would go back to see if players had more Black Cats to play.
(p. 4).

These are just rule clarifications that apply to "Reactions that can play themselves". The reason they went for this route is because they didn't want to state this four times, and it would also ease things up when a future expansion has more of these kinds of Reactions.

93
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies is online
« on: March 09, 2022, 05:09:12 pm »
Specialist looks very good. I like how it avoids the Way of the Rat problem of having to decide whether to get the card's benefit or gain a copy of it.

Specialist is also going to be one of the few cards that really synergies with Elder.

94
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« on: March 06, 2022, 08:02:53 am »
Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

In this topic, SmilingTeethMayBite points out that there is an inconsitency in the photo, so this photo might be incorrect altogether.

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Very surprised Merchant Ship survived, especially if they don't buff it in any way. I expected Explorer to be the card that held on even though it's often thought of as bad.

I don't think it will be too much of a stretch to give Lookout optional trashing and Cutpurse a "4 or more cards in hand" limit on who can be attacked by it.

It is not a stretch as all to have Explorer go, as Sculptor and falconer make this card look incredibly stupid (though I guess Harem is in the same boat, with Conquest existing.).

95
Rules Questions / Re: Coffers Rules Change
« on: March 05, 2022, 05:23:32 pm »
That said, is there any consideration on making Treasures playable during the entirety of the Buy phase (kinda contradicting what I just said above)? This mattered pretty much never pre-Renaissance, but nowadays it feels kinda ugly.

The rule was introduced with Prosperity. Removing it would break Grand Market, and significantly alter Mint and Mandarin, maybe more.

Wow, how could I forgot that one lol. But this isn't really that far of from the Coffers thing though.

EDIT: This begs the question: shouldn't the Buy phase be split into two phases: a phase A in which you play Treasures, and a phase B in which you can buy cards and (some) landscapes? For Coffers, the solution is then simple: you can play Coffers during the Action phase and phase A of the Buy phase. But I guess this opens other cans of worms (with playing Black Market through March or Gamble).

96
Rules Questions / Re: Coffers Rules Change
« on: March 05, 2022, 03:57:06 pm »
I am kinda split on this change, since I kinda dislike the errata Merchant Ship and (especially) Patron got. Is there a reason why the playability conditions aren't "when you can play a Treasure, you can spend Coffers". I know I can't outthink Donald X when it comes to Dominion design, so he must have a good reason for this.

That said, is there any consideration on making Treasures playable during the entirety of the Buy phase (kinda contradicting what I just said above)? This mattered pretty much never pre-Renaissance, but nowadays it feels kinda ugly.

EDIT: I have thought about it and yes, above suggestion is also less than ideal as Gamble suggests that you can play a Treasure. So a more ideal solution would be adding the convention that "A Coffers is a $1 producing Spoils that is always available". But that might be a too much of a breeding ground for rule questions (such as: do they count towards Storyteller and Voyage? Can I Mint them? etc.). And that probably sums up why Donald chose his solution instead.

97
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies Preview 4: Recursion
« on: March 03, 2022, 02:53:10 pm »
I think the reason they didn't go for the Duration route with Lich is because it would maybe be unclear that the start-turn effects of Durations would pass to the tun thereafter. And it's easy enough to remember that you have to skip next turn.

98
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 30: Scrapbook
« on: March 03, 2022, 02:45:34 pm »


Permanent Bonfire paired with the one thing that it can't get rid of. Other cards might be able to get some use out of it though.

coming up with the names for these was harder than the text on them

1. Bonfire is getting Errata to not work on Duration cards. Campsite should likewise be limited to non-Durations.
2. Campsite should also say "card you have in play," like Bonfire.
3. Obsidian Ring is unclear; it can be parsed as "when you [trash this] or [discard this other than during Clean-up]" (which I only know you intend because of you saying that Campsite is "paired with the one thing that it can't get rid of") or "when you [trash this or discard this] other than during Clean-up," which would actually let Campsite get rid of it. I'd rearrange the triggers, i.e. "when you discard this other than during Clean-up or trash this."
4. That said, mandatorily putting it into your hand when it's discarded has a major accountability issue. When you discard multiple cards at once, only the topmost card is shown, hence why Silos and Shepherd reveal the cards they discard. Obsidian Ring doesn't work without a tortured wording like "when you trash this, put it into your hand. When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to put it into your hand" and being a Reaction.

Where can you find those errata? I mean, Prince is now also a Duration card (finally).

99
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« on: March 03, 2022, 02:34:22 pm »
Voyage is a really cool card with lots of interesting interactions. It is nice with gainers, it is nice with cards that give tokens, it is nice with stackable attacks and it works really well with Delay. Sure, the limitation to play cards, including treasures, can be off putting but once you are used to that, Voyage is a beauty.

(if you wanna rip on split piles, please go to the Wizzard pile.)

100
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« on: March 03, 2022, 06:25:43 am »
I think that there is a good chance that Elder is the next Capitalism. It is wacky, but I feel that whatever you try to pull with Elder, is very much held back by the fact that Elder by itself is just a disappearing Silver. This means that turning Town Crier and Town into Grand Markets is actually nowhere near as impressive as it sounds. It also doesn't help that you likely only get two of those. Because of that, you'd actually wanna avoid being dependent on Blacksmith for your drawing (which is also hot garbage on its own).

Elder+Minion is pretty nice, though, although the opportunity cost of unlocking Elder and buying that thing over another Minion is probably too much on average.

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