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Messages - Robz888

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16476
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« on: May 28, 2012, 04:27:08 am »
Okay, I just did some more thinking about whether this is the right time for this. I think it is. Soon it will be too late. ... Insomniac, you should really take that vote off me. Really, really. And, I can back that up.

I AM THE DOCTOR

There was every reason to stay silent up to now. I can't save myself, so a reveal means I die (I've known that since Tables turned up as a dead cop, eliminating the possibility of Jailkeeper.) But now there are 5 people left: I, G, J, V, R. We lose if we do not lynch a mafia this round, because there will be 2 town and 2 mafia and we lose by definition. So we'll never even get to the point tonight where my power helps unless we do this right. (If we do kill the correct person today, this means I die tonight--which is bad, but it's better than losing right now, which I suspect is likely to happen unless I come out, and could in fact still happen because we don't know for sure who is mafia, just that it isn't me.)

For clarification, I saved Kuildeous during the first night. I saved Voltgloss last night.

So, Insomniac, please remove that vote. Seriously, if G and J are the mafia, we could lose instantly. You are really, really, really suspicious to me, but let's not let this feud accidentally end the game.

16477
There are 3 Mafia.

I will not list the roles that are available but there is nothing too crazy I promise.

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch

(13) Everyone - Not Voting


Cool! Okay, here are some thoughts on roles and such:

We have 13 people minus 3 mafia. That leaves 10 people. I would guess that at least half of them--maybe exactly half--have to be vanillas. They don't have to be, I suppose, but that's my guess. That leaves 5 people with unspecified special roles. Also, I assume one of the mafia is a specialty role, like Mafia Rolecop.

Jailkeeper, Doctor, Cop: These are the roles that have been used in the other games. I think people are pretty familiar with them. I doubt we have all 3 in the game--they are rather strong--but possibly 2 of them. There are also twists on them, like the Mad Doctor, who kills his target 50% of the time rather than saving it. Who knows if Insomniac went that route.

Doublevoter: This is a weak-ish, but cool, special role. The Doublevoter gets to cast 2 votes during the lynch. Depending on how Insomniac structures it, it can be really easy to figure out who the DV is, making him sort of an obvious mafia target, but... it's interesting.

Shield: Or any other role where the person gets one free "life" in the night. We might have something like that.

Lovers or Couples: I've played with these people once. There are 2 of them. They know who each other are. When one dies, they both die (either during lynch or at night). Other than that, they are just townies. The good thing for them is that they have someone they know they can trust, so they have more info right off the bat. The problem for them is they really have to watch out for each other, and if one says, "I am one of the Couple!" it's really easy for the mafia to score a free double kill in the night.

Serial Killer, Mole, WhatHaveYou: I doubt we have this, if there are truly 2 mafia. 4 killing bad guys seems like a lot. But maybe! These people are part of their own faction and generally have to survive to the end. Neither the mafia nor the town can win until the Killer dies.

Vigilante: This is a townie night killer. He gets to kill someone in the night. He wants to go after people he suspects, obviously, or not use his power. If we have 3 mafia and no other killing role, this might be a logical inclusion.

Those are some of my thoughts. I am sure there are like a million other possibilities.

16478
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« on: May 28, 2012, 03:47:01 am »
Anyone willing to believe me on the Robz train yet. Day 2 he again was the penultimate vote for yet another vanilla townie. Pointed his fingers in just enough places to get people to look somewhere that wasn't him. I'm still 100% sure that Robz is Mafia.

Vote: Robz888

This is nonsense, and totally expected. Of course I expected Insomniac to keep up his campaign against me from last round. I expect him to keep saying stupid things about me--that I point fingers too much (moreso than Galzria? moreso than J? moreso than K who we wrongly lynched yesterday? clearly this is no indication of guilt, and at least half the players have done it more than me.)

One of the reasons that Insomniac remains my principal suspect--and though I did vote for K yesterday, I indicated it was a toss up for me which one was more mafia than the other (I suspected they were mafia as a pair, and yes, was wrong about that clearly)--is that he keeps bringing up arguments against me that don't make sense, namely this argument that I am going around accusing everyone. It's nuts; I don't do that more than other people. I can't for the life of me figure out why he wouldn't be accusing J or Galz of the same thing (well, the likely reason is one of them is mafia with him, if he is mafia).

I am not a member of the mafia, so Insomniac is wrong about me. I don't really begrudge him that; I've been wrong about lots of people, and it's pretty hard to tell who is mafia. But I do begrudge him coming up with reasons that don't make any sense, and then parading this around as a certainty that I'm mafia. And VOTING FOR ME? That's insane. Imagine the quite possible scenario that neither of is mafia. The 2 mafia could drop the hammer on me right now and boom, they win the game.

Insomniac's moves are incriminating and logically-faulty, and reckless. But see we absolutely must make the right kill here, I will not cast a vote for him---that would be insane. The fact that he cast a vote for me actually makes me a little less suspicious of him, because it's so suicidally stupid.

Alright, here's the thing. I'm of two minds here:

I've never really bought Insomniac's argument about Robz. However I won't deny that there MIGHT be something there, even if I don't agree with him. He IS right on at least the count that Robz has essentially cast the killing vote both times. (Although to be fair, there was no way for Robz to know that his vote on Morgrim would be the deciding one). On the other hand, Robz HAS essentially laid out why he was casting his vote each time, AND WHEN. The fact that others voted in BEFORE him can hardly be his fault. Still, he may be Mafia. 75% chance.

I agree with some of this. And I agree that I was the principal motivator behind the Morgrim vote (though NOT the kill voter! Morgrim himself did that!). But the K kill was proposed by Galz and carried out by J, so that one really isn't on me.

So I *implore* you all NOT to vote behind Insomniac yet. Maybe that's where we want to go and roll the dice. But given we NOW KNOW that Robz is Mafia or Insomniac is, I think we should take a LONG hard look at how each of them has acted throughout the first 2 days before we make our decision. Win/Lose hangs on that vote.

This is absolutely wrong, and dangerous thinking. We do NOT know that either I or Insomniac are the mafia. It's true that I most strongly suspect Insomniac, and Insomniac is 'certain' about me. But we could both be wrong. And, look, this gets to my second point... the most likely mafia pairing at this point seems to me to be Galz and J. They have worked in tandem, sometimes subtly, sometimes overtly. But often in tandem.

It's true that individually I suspect Insomniac more than either of them--and I suppose his mafia teammate could be anybody other than me, but probably J, I guess? And I know it's not going to win me many friends to start suggesting people other than Insomniac. Like, Galz and J, I hope you don't say "ah, Robz suspects us, we will join Insomniac now!" Because I'm not sure at all about anybody, I'm just trying to figure out who the 2 mafia are. It's baffling that we still have 2.

The thing I am most sure about is that Voltgloss is town. I've just gotten such a strong town vibe from him. I know the rest of you find him suspicious, right? Well, I don't.

So, here's how I feel at this point: (No percentages! If I was 75% sure of ANYTHING, I would vote immediately. That's a crazy high certainty level that Galz has, but it's at least consistent with other ridiculous numbers he has tossed out throughout the game)

Individually:
Insomniac
Jtheonah
Galzria
Voltgloss

Pairs:
G and J
I and J
I and G
Much Less Likely:
I and V
V and G
V and J

I must say one more thing about Insomniac. I still find it difficult to believe that both mafia voted for Morgrim in the first round, because it was unnecessary to do so. Insomniac is the last surviving non-Morgrim voter.

16479
Uh, yeah... let's all agree to do posts that are somewhat shorter than the Mafia II posts...

16480
With so much overlap with Mafia II it's gonna be hard for those of us still alive to keep each other's behavior straight and separate in the two games. I think out of fairness to the new people we should try not to reference the other games unless it's really pertinent.

Oh I agree. Same holds for the Mafia-I people. My comment wasn't a reference to Mafia-II, rather to the fact that Robz is always up late and does a lot of his posting at night.

I was going to mention this--we just can't talk about the other games, and our behavior in them... at least until those games conclude. At that point, it might be useful information. I mean, you know, "Hey Voltgloss is playing differently, etc. etc..." could be helpful information. But it just isn't fair to discuss it until those games conclude, because that person can't defend his behavior without talking about the game, and that's illegal. Anyway, I doubt that discussion would even help us much in this first round, which is going to result in an even MORE random kill, since we have LESS info than usual.

I have played a lot of IRL mafia (never online until now), and I can do a post about some common roles I've heard of or seen. That mafiascum wiki page is a great starting place, although I know about a couple roles I haven't actually read on there. I'll do that post later (much later) tonight. As Galzria noted, I tend to post late at night (after midnight) and between noon and 5:00 PM.

In the meantime, it's probably most helpful if the new people make some posts so we can get a feel for how they behave.

And... I'm so excited for another mafia game! Welcome to everyone. (These forum games have coincided with my complete and utter collapse from a Level 42 great Dominion player to a level 37 only okay-ish Dominion player. I don't think the mafia games are to blame, as I started declining just before they started, but anyway, it's been nice to have something else to do as I try to figure out what is wrong with my Dominion game these days...)

16481
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 27, 2012, 08:25:51 pm »
Uh, why?

Because you're too crafty for your own good.
And anybody who can be involved in Mafia-I, Mafia-II, Mafia-III, Resistance, AND Isodom 5 can't be trusted.
 ;)

Makes sense.

16482
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 27, 2012, 08:10:33 pm »
Uh, why?

16483
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 27, 2012, 07:31:17 pm »
It seems to me we don't really gain much information Round 1 no matter what happens, because the Spies pretty much have to vote to succeed the mission no matter what. So based on that, I would understand approving every mission. But if you really want me to approve it, you have to pick me!

That's the boat I'm in. However, I hold one piece of information that I can share with all of you if I'm given the chance that will make our odds MUCH better: I am Resistance. If we make it to Assignment Vote 4 (or Mission 1.4 for you technical people), I will be leader. I will vote NO for my own proposal. Now, I fully understand that holding the Vote of No Confidence means that most of you will have to vote Yes for my assignment (and because of that, I will be putting myself in). However, if we get that far, and you vote NO with me and it fails, I would have the opportunity to end the game on the next vote. In my choosing not to do so, the Resistance will KNOW that I should be on every assignment for the rest of the game.

--I doubt this will sway many people to reject my assignment (again, should it get that far). But because that is the best way I could relay my role to you, I present the option to all of you.--

For the time being, I will still be voting "No".  :)

Yeah, I bet you'd like us to fail 4 rounds, Mr. Spy....

16484
The activity in this thread caused me to go over the list again. I am really, really struck by how mis-ranked Oracle is. It doesn't belong in the bottom third at all. I would also put Fortune Teller at least a couple slots higher. Develop and Chancellor absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, deserve last and second last place.

16485
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 27, 2012, 07:23:34 pm »
It seems to me we don't really gain much information Round 1 no matter what happens, because the Spies pretty much have to vote to succeed the mission no matter what. So based on that, I would understand approving every mission. But if you really want me to approve it, you have to pick me!

Hey, that's not what you said earlier:

I suppose I will vote against this mission, solely because that seems like the popular thing to do.

It's not what I said earlier. Nor is it inconsistent with what I said earlier.

Having no info, I guess I would have voted to approve that last mission because we have to eventually. But somebody (you, I think) said not to until I am on the mission. So I listened to that. Truly, I am a follow-the-crowd guy for now!

16486
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 27, 2012, 07:17:12 pm »
It seems to me we don't really gain much information Round 1 no matter what happens, because the Spies pretty much have to vote to succeed the mission no matter what. So based on that, I would understand approving every mission. But if you really want me to approve it, you have to pick me!

16487
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia I: Murder in the Gardens, Night 2.
« on: May 27, 2012, 01:36:12 pm »
Oh, and I see no reason why mafia would try to kill Axxle if for some strange reason he is not mafia. He's been on the wrong side of a lynch twice now and has done nothing particularly helpful as far as the town are concerned.

I am pretty certain it is Axxle. If it's not, since TINAS cleared Ftl, that only leaves Davio and O, right? Let's say one of them is the mafia, doesn't matter which. Let's say it's Davio. The thing is this means he must have voted to kill his mafia partner, Ozle. And the vote was 4-3, meaning he COULD have saved his partner. So that's hard to believe. But maybe it was a strategy to cast suspicion elsewhere, because we would have killed Ozle next round anyway, I guess? I don't know. And then he tried to kill Axxle? I guess that doesn't make sense either, because there would be two chances that Axxle was saved in the night (I jail Axxle, or I jail mafia). This is true for every player except me, where there is only once chance I survive (I jail mafia). So I would expect to be dead.

So basically, yeah... it makes much much much more sense that Axxle is just the mafia, I think.

16488
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia I: Murder in the Gardens, Night 2.
« on: May 27, 2012, 01:22:34 pm »
Here's what I did. I realized that saving TINAS didn't actually make sense, because then he wouldn't get to use his detective power. There's little point keeping him alive, rather than someone else, if he isn't able to investigate. Plus, I can't save myself, so I'm dead unless I figure out who the mafia is and block that person.

Ozle, myself, and Axxle all wrongly voted for TINAS last round. Ozle was the Mafia Rolecop, I was just plain wrong, and Axxle... was the other mafia, I guessed. The vote was close, and he probably didn't want to vote against his fellow mafia. So I blocked him.

I assume this means that Axxle is the other mafia, although it is possible that he was the target of the mafia, instead.

16489
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fire Ship
« on: May 27, 2012, 04:52:58 am »
The attack portion of the card is very swingy. And I think really dominating. Somebody turns up Estate/Silver, somebody else turns up Province/Gold. And your card gives +2 cards AND it only costs $4? And because the best defense against the card is to buy it yourself (for the Reaction aspect), this card would probably just totally dominate whatever set it appears in. You would have to buy out the pile.

Also, you have some wording issues. "You may reveal this card when another player plays an attack. If you do, that player may trash the attack card after playing it or return the card to their hand unplayed." Well, they can't return it to their hand unplayed, because they already played it, or else the Reaction wouldn't trigger.

16490
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars
« on: May 27, 2012, 02:27:06 am »
I think he's waiting to hear from Popsofctown to review his setup.  :'(

I know. It's making me weep too that the game isn't going yet. On the other hand, it's important for pops to review. What if Insomniac tried to include the Suicide Bomber? I played with the Suicide Bomber once. The Suicide Bomber is a townsperson that kills someone as soon as he is killed. He is a very vengeful townsperson.

16491
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 26, 2012, 08:37:02 pm »
Personally, I titled my message:

Resistance: Mission 1, Assignment 1:

Pshhaw. Properly follow proper protocols.

16492
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 26, 2012, 08:17:48 pm »
Oh, and... I suspect Morgrim is the spy. We should kill him.

16493
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 26, 2012, 08:17:08 pm »
Tables, is there some way you would like us to note this? For instance, maybe this convention would help:

Vote 1.1 -- Robz88: Against

If I understand correctly the votes for/against approving the team will be publicly revealed by you?

16494
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 26, 2012, 08:15:27 pm »
I suppose I will vote against this mission, solely because that seems like the popular thing to do.

16495
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars
« on: May 26, 2012, 06:26:28 pm »
So we have 12? 12 would be awesomeness. You might consider having 3 mafia. Or 2 and the Serial Killer.

16496
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 26, 2012, 04:35:09 pm »
So, uh, TINAS is the mafia! (Oops, wrong game.) TINAS is a spy! There we go.

16497
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars
« on: May 25, 2012, 04:26:46 pm »
Yay more players! :)

16498
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars
« on: May 25, 2012, 03:56:55 pm »
Hell, I might even try my hand at moderating one of these after Mafia II ends.  We'll see!

I'll be in for that one, too.

16499
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 5: Sign-Up Thread
« on: May 25, 2012, 02:26:31 pm »
I am in!

16500
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: May 25, 2012, 02:15:30 pm »
Hi everybody! Wow. Off to the races again! This is good, though, both Mafia games are in night right now.

Okay, I think I get it. Well, I get it, though I'm not sure about strategic considerations. So, I'm going last to be Leader, which means I absolutely won't be Leader before we vote down 5 teams and lose the game. So every team is pretty much the same to me--because I don't get to pick it--so wouldn't I just vote yes here?

Or wait, I want to vote yes when I'm on the team! Right? Do I? If everybody did that we would never agree on a team, though.

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