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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: June 03, 2012, 01:06:33 pm »
Oh, no.... the dread Opinion Maker! Um, we want to give it to a spy, right?
I'm going to have to look again at this Eevee thing. The gist of Robz's suspicion seems to be that Eevee mixes humor, substance, and non-substance in a "mafia middle-ground" way (a concept Robz created), and that Eevee is downplaying his abilities. The problem I have is that this seems to be suspicion based solely on a person's RL posting style, rather than anything concrete that would point to them being Mafia. It feels like the Morgrim attack that Robz guided in M-II. (I'm not saying Robz is Mafia because he's targeting Eevee. I'm saying Robz's attack on Eevee, if Robz is Town, feels like my attack on Morgrim in M-II.)
When those 'most liked card' lists from Qvist eventually see the light of day, I predict Wharf will be very high. Unlike many of the other ones, I can't really imagine people DISliking Wharf. I get huge hands to do awesome things? Awesome. I get extra buys so that I can use all this money? Even better.
Like several others here, I also really like Black Market. Though I often feel like I ought to hate it.
So we're settling on an Eevee bandwagon Robz? Because even though my random number generator gets knocked down, as a townie the ideal situation is that you select a person and get everyone to bandwagon on them (that minimizes the mafia influence on the voting)
As I'm relatively confident of your town status, I'd be welcome to share that bandwagon campaign with you
Ok, well I need to go to bed. I'll be on tomorrow morning and if people want me to full claim I'll do it in the morning. In any event, please afford me the courtesy of staying Vote #7 and allowing me my last words.
Or, alternately, just unvote and don't make this horrible town mistake.
The "rebuttal" I'm waiting for is what's alluded to here:Can you see me doing it because the players who are attacking you are making a convincing argument whereas you are not? Cause that's what's happening...
I hate to leave it like this, I really do, but I have a ticket for a Jonathan Coulton concert and I gotta head out. Back on much later tonight.
Their argument is terrible. Luckily, it will be disproved quite soon.
I assume something further is coming to disprove the arguments against Robz. That's what I'm hoping to see in the morning.
Grah, forgot something.
Robz, you said that you've been playing "sloppy" if you were Mafia, and asked me if you play sloppy. The implication, of course, being that because you're playing sloppy, you can't be Mafia.
The problem is that you yourself said you change the way you play with every game.
You just got done playing a game as Mafia where you were far from sloppy. Now, you're in a new game. You're supposedly being "sloppy." But you change the way you play every game. So how does that acquit you? If you were really Mafia again in this game, I think the last thing you would do is play just like you played in M-II.
I'm not saying "you must be Mafia because you're playing differently than M-II." I'm saying that I don't find comparing your behavior in this game to your behavior in M-II is really all that compelling one way or another. (I know this is a centerpiece of Dsell's argument. You'll notice I didn't cite it. That's because I don't find it compelling.)
Galzria's defense of RobZ is making me nervous, I know that some of us are n00bs, but frankly the "We're the experienced players and we're so good - so unvote before you have both of us killed" is slightly insulting.Jotheonah IS Mafia. Volt PROBABLY is Mafia. Robz IS town.
I don't see how any truly town player could make such a confident statement - for sure we don't have anything firm to support an explicit statement of fact.
I am SO tempted to pull an O, and ask Robz if I can lynch him to teach the town a lesson. Except that it's such a terrible idea.
But hear this, Galzria: You are defending Robz SO strongly it actually appears that that would be too transparent if you were both mafia. So for now I will assume you are town. (If you were mafia and Robz was town I assume you would have no problem lynching him). Ok, so for now you're town. Please look over what I have said and what Voltgloss has said against Robz. I am not so sure that you have such a good feel for him that you would be able to say absolutely that he is innocent. If he wants to play well as mafia, part of that would be to convince you, his former partner, that he is town. Try to set aside your preconceptions and look at how he's acted in THIS game. How does it look? WHY does it look so very town to you? Just be thinking about this.
Can you see me doing it because the players who are attacking you are making a convincing argument whereas you are not? Cause that's what's happening...
I hate to leave it like this, I really do, but I have a ticket for a Jonathan Coulton concert and I gotta head out. Back on much later tonight.
Basically town, V and J are trying RIGHT NOW to slam the door on Robz, and if successful, you will have NEITHER of us day 2.
What I find more suspicious Robz, is that Volt COMPLETELY ignored me and J. This indicates to me (scary thought), that there very well could be 2 in V-J. See, V neither wanted to help J out directly by defending him, nor did he want to come after me because he can kill me at night. By ignoring J and I, and redirecting to where there is already suspicions he could hit two birds with one stone.
I'm not really going to focus on Mafiosi #2 at this point, but I feel that was very important to get out there. I had been waiting for awhile for V to speak up, and now he has. My Mafia trio :
J-V-#3
The idea that we are a team is ridiculous. That would be the WORST mafia play ever.
Robz, I think you're grasping at straws. The mafia don't need to lynch anyone today. They can live with a no-lynch. You're saying they're placing the first 3 votes on you? You are following your established scum pattern of always accusing your accusers. And I'm not buying it.
Unvote
Vote: Robz888
I'm voting precisely because I don't believe all of Robz's accusers to be mafia, and I'm finding their case against him much more compelling then either G's case against me or Robz's case against Eevee.
PREPOST EDIT:
You know this Robz, but journalist (science, magazine), 24, NYC
Eevee's isotropic name is MrEevee, so I assume "he". Also, I posted this earlier but nobody responded!
Oops, sorry! For the record I am a he. When I'm not sure I usually check people's profiles, but Eevee did not have a gender specified.
So, why do I suspect Robz?
- He responded to Dsell's mild suspicion, first by ignoring it; second by being nasty back; and third by attacking him in return.
- He has not fairly met Dsell's core criticism: that Robz is acting exactly like he says the Mafia would act. Robz admits this, but asserts it doesn't matter, because why would he act like he says the Mafia would act? But this devolves into WIFOM* that I don't find compelling: Robz himself laid out those criteria, and could just as well be a Mafia acting in accordance therewith so he could claim (as he has) that he can't be Mafia or he wouldn't have laid out those criteria.
- His insistence that he is one of the town's most helpful players and so shouldn't be lynched. But he hasn't been helpful; he's been (in his own words) nasty, needling, and accusatory towards those who have dared to suspect him.
- His accusation that Dsell tried to preemptively defend himself in case of a mislynch. "Everybody remember that?" Actually, no, Robz, I don't. I remember you characterizing one of Dsell's posts as that, and I remember Dsell rebutting your characterization as inaccurate. And I definitely do not remember you fairly meeting the substance of his rebuttal. Or meeting it at all, in fact.
If I turn out to be wrong and lead your lynch and you turn out to be a townie, that would be very unfortunate. And I would expect a lot of suspicion to be cast on me, rightly so. But I trust that my posts thus far and future posts will be clear, well-reasoned, and show my support for the town.
I'm going to be on and off today, but obviously I will try to follow this as closely as possible.
As promised, here's a short analysis of how well I think people might be playing if they were mafia:
Dsell: Again, biased. But IF I were mafia, I actually don't think I would be playing well. I've taken one of the riskier game plans, going after one of the strongest and most experienced players, who is excellent at defending himself. I started a campaign against him before anyone else had suspected him at all, or even had any reason to suspect him. I could have jumped on Morgrim or O, who have confuzzled a few people, or on Eevee for being "suspiciously newbish" or on def because "we can't reward the non-participants." But no, I jumped on Robz, and have been fairly relentless. Seriously, how bad would that look if I led this whole campaign based on nothing and then we lynched town? Pretty bad. Of course that scenario also works if I'm misguided town (I certainly hope I'm not) but either way that's WAY more suspicion than I would want to put on myself early on if I were mafia.
Robz says of Dsell, "he has a Robz888 focus and as Robz888 I don't get it." As someone who is NOT Robz888, looking at their discussion from the outside, I do get it.
And finally, here's the clincher, from Robz's most recent post about Eevee:But what about Eevee? Do you see what I'm saying? Lalala I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just a cute Pokemon, lalala... and IT'S SUSPICIOUS.
I don't recall Eevee saying he's "just a cute Pokemon." I do recall someone saying it, though.haha trying my best to be insightful and smart and coming out as silly, thats painful to hear
You are insightful. I meant that you are insightful and a little silly, which strikes me as mafia. But it could be that I am exaggerating how silly you are because you are a cute Pokemon.
Robz is accusing Eevee of doing something that, in fact, Robz himself did.
I'm-pretty-sure-is-town: Voltgloss, Dsell (good, well-argumented posts that strongly make me feel like I can trust you. Either of these being mafia is a scary thought but I can't really see that being the case, it doesnt seem like either is holding any info back).
A final impression: out of everyone else so far, Dsell seems to be making the most generally reasonable, well-thought-out posts. If I had to pick "most likely other player to be Town" at this very moment, I'd pick him.
So... yeah.
I got a guilty on Robz night 1 - After reading, he was my prime suspect due to his general behaviour and also gut feeling, with Voltgloss and Galzria not far behind - Volt because I found some of his reasoning for voting Morgrim EXTREMELY suspect and forced, Galzria for constantly talking about what the mafia wants to do, something townies don't really want or need to do much.
My notes are here, although I stopped updating after night 1. I'd say be careful as I might pick you out on things, but you joined a game of mafia, so you should be expecting it...
I feel like such a sheep, everytime someone posts a long, well-written analysis (actually, shorter ones do as well if they are smart enough) as to why someone is likely scum, I feel like "omg that's so correct!!". Makes me wonder how easily I could be (mis)led by mafia as well..
I cant really fathom Galzria being mafia after those posts, he sounds so genuine.. but maybe I'm way too easy to fool. Still, he looks to me like perhaps _the_ most helpful townie so he is the last person I'd vote for atm.
Btw, I dont mind the long posts at all guys, they feel helpful (even convincing) and you are not just talking in circles but actually getting somewhere with them.
// Haha O, i dont really understand what you are doing.