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Messages - Robz888

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Top 10 Card Artwork
« on: January 31, 2012, 04:21:59 pm »
Favorite artwork? Gotta go with my girls, Peddler and Forge.

Peddler: She's just so adorable. Seriously, I'd buy everything on her cart, until I was out of buys.

Forge: This girl clearly has a story. Her father was a blacksmith, and his father, and his father before him. He passed his craft on to her before he was killed by an evil knight. She swore revenge, and has been dutifully reforging her father's sword, patiently waiting. Soon, she will rain vengeance down upon the evil knight's dominion. She will trash everything he holds dear.

GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 3 Round 2 Kingdom Submissions
« on: January 31, 2012, 01:26:57 am »
I love it.

I don't really think Upgrade deserves its spot. It's so slow, has risks in the end game, and its rather expensive. It can be a cheat to Grand Markets, but really Remodel does that better. And other less expensive trashers like Remake, Salvager, Steward, Moneylender, and Spice Merchant just seem to offer better trashing or bigger benefits. It's nice that Upgrade is a cantrip, and that it effectively destroys curses and coppers, but it wouldn't be #18 for me.

I will also admit to being one of the people that ranked Cartographer much better (I'm not sure exactly where I put it, though). A Cartographer or two can really filter out your bad cards, and cycle through your deck much quicker. In a simple Big Money game, you can skip over Greens and Coppers. In more complex engines, you'll have an easier time matching +cards to villages. I've had success using it to continuously match Barons with Estates. I might have been too generous in my ranking of it, but I don't think it should be any worse-ranked than it is here.

Also, Jester is so hard to place. I think it makes sense where it is, but it's such a swingy attack. I played a game yesterday where my opponent's first three Jester plays hit my Moneylender. Do you know where a deck with 4 Moneylenders is going? Nowhere.

General Discussion / Re: Demographics of F.DS
« on: January 29, 2012, 03:27:08 am »
In the Ann Arbor, Michigan area also

Bunch of Ann Arbor people, too? I went to college there. I have lived in Michigan my whole life, except for a summer internship in Washington DC, and a fall internship in Arizona. I live on the East Cost (of Michigan) now, near Detroit.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Conflicting Counters
« on: January 28, 2012, 01:52:53 am »
In this specific case, if you can load up on enough Lighthouse protection, I wouldn't bother overbuying Stables when Crossroads/Nobles will give you all the draw you need plus points. Now, if your opponent opened Mountebank and you did not, I could see going full Stables because you're really going to be hurting at that point. But Lighthouse is really one of the few able defenders of cursing Attacks.

I do think Tribute is a tiny bit overrated (I tend to dislike cards with unreliable benefits that the opponent can block with smart play, Tribute shares this problem with Smugglers), and Outpost is actually a bit underrated (good players know it's usually a horrible buy, but it can be just so powerful in the right engines).  I also had Harvest a couple spots higher; I don't see much daylight between it and Merchant Ship.  They thrive in different sorts of decks, but they mostly fill the same function about as effectively.  (You should normally count on Harvest giving you $3, which is roughly equivalent to Merchant Ship given the Duration penalty).  Merchant Ship tends to be better in BM, whereas Harvest is better with Action chains, and best with Thrones, Kings... and as a Tunnel enabler, too.

I very much agree. I'm not sure I'd actually bought Harvest more than once or twice... until yesterday, where it came up in two different Kingdoms that made good use of it. In the second game, my opponent went Pirate Ship. Given Native Villages, I was free to load up on Harvests as a great source of non-Treasure coin. I think every Harvest I played save for one gave me +$4, and my deck wasn't, like, purposefully diverse or anything.

Of course, there's a lot of competition at the $5 level, and even Merchant Ship will probably appear pretty quickly on the next list. So I don't know that I would have moved Harvest very far. But it's certainly better than Tribute. +4 Actions, hurray!

Help! / Re: Governor faster than Ambassador?
« on: January 25, 2012, 02:27:11 pm »
If you consistently use Governor for +cards, you're probably going to lose no matter what else you're doing. That's because the benefit to your opponent is greatest when you choose this option--you are letting him play a Laboratory, essentially.

Ambassador is premised upon the fact that you forgo drastic improvement to your own deck while slowly destroying your opponent's deck. The attack is hugely mitigated if you are frequently granting your opponent the use of a Laboratory. Additionally, Governor games tend to end very quickly, and are probably more resistant to Ambassador-style play than the average strategy.

Dominion Isotropic / Re: People to avoid on isotropic
« on: January 24, 2012, 04:01:43 am »
Ah! I finally encountered a mean person on Isotropic! A user named Agarash said "Fuck you" to me because I bought the first 4 provinces in 12 turns (my deck had 1 Bridge, 1 Festival, 1 Remake, 4 Coppers, 6 Silvers, and 2 Gold--so it was pretty miraculous luck). He resigned after that.

I would like to Remake his cruel words into nothing.

41. Its magical power is not much different to Farming Village's, which barely made it into the top half of the $4 cards. However, I believe Farming Village's version is much better, as it allows you to directly counter top-of-deck attacks without limiting yourself to non-drawing actions. Then when we compare the non-magic parts of the card's, we're comparing Copper vs. Village. A free card vs. a $3-cost. To me, Farming Village is superior in almost every way, yet it costs $1 less than Venture (and we're talking the biggest $1 gap in the game, $4-$5) AND it still only made it half way up the $4 list. What does that say about Venture?

Edit: Just realised a couple of flaws with this comparison, but I'm late for work so I'll sort it out later. I still think Venture vs. FV is a pretty good comparison, although it's not as extreme as this post states. FV is still better.

I'm the other way around--I feel like I personally overrated Farming Village until recently. I used to consider it the best of the $4 villages, but I almost feel like both Workers and Mining have much more essential uses.

As for Venture, I think it would deserve a spot after Mountebank, Witch, Hunting Party, Ill-Gotten Gains, Minion, Wharf, Margrave, Torturer, Ghost Ship, Laboratory, Tactician. The next few, I suspect, would be Venture, Jester, Embassy, Cartographer, Stables, Rabble, in some order. I'm sure I'm missing a card or two, but that's roughly how I'd put them.

With even modest trashing, Venture is a powerhouse, and lightning fast, and super-immune to curses and greening.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: To veto or not to veto
« on: January 24, 2012, 02:33:23 am »
I usually play in Veto Mode, so I pretty much have a step-by-step mental check process for this now:

Check 1: Is my least favorite card, Black Market, available? If yes, VETO
Check 2: What about cards I generally don't enjoy, such as King's Court, Grand Market, and Bank? If yes, VETO
Check 3: Are there irritatingly dominant or swingy attacks, such as Familiar, Goons, Jester, Margrave, Swindler, and Minion? If yes, VETO
Check 4: Or other cards that dominate, or exacerbate a non-identical starting hands advantage, such as Fool's Gold? If yes, VETO

Wow, so much discussion going on. You just can't wait for the next rankings, am I right?  ;D
I hope to post the next part on Thursday and we'll see if and where Library, Merchant Ship and Rabble will be.

And Venture, please.

If there are 13 cards in each section, I might expect to see Venture just narrowly eek out of Part 2 make it to Part 3.

Agreed that this list is pretty much on the money. I might quibble with the ranking of Stash. Is it really that bad? Like, number 2 worst? I don't see how it's worse than Explorer and Saboteur.

GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 3 Sign-up
« on: January 23, 2012, 12:57:19 am »
Oh, wow. Did I just make it? It seems that I did.

GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 3 Sign-up
« on: January 22, 2012, 10:50:14 pm »
I would like to sign up!

Dominion General Discussion / Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards
« on: January 17, 2012, 03:24:20 pm »
Moneylender is better at getting to $5 and $6 in the early game, which is very often crucial.  Spice Merchant is better at keeping your engine oiled once you've built it up a little bit.  Lab normally > Gold, but only after you have a Gold to draw in the first place.  I agree that #22 is certainly too low, but top 10 would be too high.  I had them both in the 13 to 15 range, and think there's not much separating the two.
When I first played with Spice Merchant, I thought it was a vast improvement over Moneylender. Trash a Copper and then choose whether you want a Laboratory or a Woodcutter? Great! But the more I play with it, the more I prefer Moneylender.

One difference I've noticed is that Moneylender eventually goes dormant, while Spice Merchant eggs you on to make mistakes. When you've destroyed 4-6 Coppers, Moneylender essentially becomes a dead card that you can't use. But you can still use Spice Merchant, unfortunately. You'll see people using it to trash a Silver, taking +2 cards +1 action, and hoping to draw more $ than they just destroyed. It's a losing proposition, in the long run.

Help! / Re: Pretty new - Didn't see this spanking coming
« on: January 12, 2012, 11:12:04 pm »
Familiar is essentially the most deadly Attack in the game, and if you want it, you want it immediately. This might be a situation where you don't want it, because Lighthouse is a decent defense and detouring for Familiar will delay you from getting Hoard/Apprentice, which is definitely the right move here. And a dedicated Apprentice buyer will be able to kill off many of the curses, anyway.

So ignoring Familiar, I agree with the Bridge/Hoard/Apprentice strategy that other people mentioned.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A dark expansion
« on: January 11, 2012, 03:40:58 pm »
Action - Attack
Cost: 5$

Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of their deck and trashes a card that you choose.

This is way too strong. It's so much more powerful than Saboteur it's not even funny. You could change it so that instead of the Attacker picking the card to trash, the victim does, but even then I think this would be too strong, considering its +$2.

Cost: 4$

+1 action
Look through your discard pile and trash up to 2 cards costing 2$ or less.

This seems pretty good, though you probably don't need the $2 or less clause. It might be a little underpowered, even then.

Coffin Maker
Cost: 3$

+1 action
You may trash a card form your hand.

As noted, this is strictly superior to Silver most of the time. You could give +$1 instead, but that might make it too weak.

Action - Attack
Cost: 5$

+1 VP
Each other player gains a Curse.

I like this card. I suspect it is balanced, though quite strong. A VP-giving Witch that turns into a worse Monument. Pretty cool.

Victory - Reaction
Cost: 3$

Worth 2 VP.

When you buy this, trash a card from your hand.
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, trash that card.

You have a lot of cards in this set that trash for no benefit. I would consider revising some of them, just for the sake of cutting down on similarity. Think about how Salvager, Remodel, Remake, Apprentice, etc., each do something different with trashing.

Action - Victory
Cost: 4$

Worth 1 VP.

+1 card
+1 action
Look through the trash pile and choose a card costing up to 8$ that is not a Province. Gain a copy of that card. If the trash pile is empty: +1 card.

This is sort of a weird one. In a Kingdom with no trashing, this would be ridiculously strong--strictly superior to Laboratory, and cheaper! With trashing, I'm not sure it's very good. Rarely do you want anything from the trash, and people will be reluctant to put anything worthwhile in the trash. So this would become sort of just a Great Hall.

Lost Diary
Cost: 5$

+1 action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck, put all revealed action cards into your hand, discard the rest.

I like this one. You would have to play test to be sure, but it's probably very strong. If 2 of your next 4 cards are Actions, you are essentially getting a Laboratory that also discards your non-Action cards (which is usually a good thing).

Cool ideas!

Game Reports / Slaughtered by Pirate Ship, Rescued by Adventurer
« on: January 08, 2012, 08:29:17 pm »
Here's a recent game where I was sure to lose, due to my own mistakes and my opponent's lucky Pirate Ship. Instead, I won narrowly, with a card that rarely does much good: Adventurer.

I opened Envoy/Silver, and planned to pick up Farming Villages, Markets, and Gold. Fairly conventional. My opponent went for Pirate Ships, which struck me as a mistake, because Markets are of course a great way to accumulate +$ without buying Treasures. Unfortunately, I bought Gold anyway, and paid for it. The first two Pirate Ships hit my Gold and my Silver, we split the Markets 6-4 in my favor (which isn't nearly favorable enough), and I wasn't able to play my Farming Villages and Envoy in a beneficial order.

Fortunately, Adventurer helped me draw enough Treasures to eek out Provinces on two occasions (I treated my Adventurer like a Silver that couldn't be trashed by Pirate Ship). It was enough to get me a narrow win--probably the only time I've ever been happy to have Adventurer in my deck.

Help! / Re: Playing Decks with Lots of Junk
« on: January 08, 2012, 02:38:12 pm »
For me, the interesting strategic choice was whether to go for Goons or Ghost Ship early (we both opened Sea Hag/FV). Goons has the huge advantage of VP chips, but the discard attack is likely to be mild because the decks are so filled with junk. Ghost Ship is not likely to draw into great cards, but it also forces the opponent to see bad cards twice. I made the decision to use early buys for Ghost Ships and then bought Goons later, when my buying power increased. It worked out in this game, but I don't think it was the optimal strategy, and I'd be curious about other opinions.

Did the game end on piles? I would expect Curses, Fishing Villages, and Hamlets to run out pretty quickly. Goons might have been more important that Ghost Ship, purely for earning a few more VP chips before the game ends.

A Bridge or two or three could have really helped your Goons here, because you'd have the +Actions to the play Bridges, thanks to all the Hamlets and Fishing Villages.

I only have a few complaints about the rankings here. Specifically, Steward should be ranked worse, and Tunnel better.

Perhaps it's just me, but Steward keeps losing relevance in most Kingdoms it appears. If I buy it, I'm almost always using it for money, in which case I should just buy Silver. The trashing is nice, but as Qvist noted, the "Should I trash with it or buy Gold?" is a dilemma that similar low-cost trashers like Moneylender, Salvager, and Masquerade just don't face. That said, it's variance still makes Steward good (especially useful in kingdoms with extra +Actions, so that you can use it for +2 cards on occasion), but I don't think it's Top 5 good.

Tunnel, on the other hand, is either Top 5 good or close to it. Rare is the kingdom without any ability to discard cards from your hand. And so many of those discarders are cards you would want even without Tunnel (Cartographer, Vault, Oasis, Warehouse, Minion, etc.) that Tunnel, in the presence of these cards and others, is truly dominating.

But those are small points... on the whole, this ranking and the others were very good. The wisdom of crowds...

I don't have much experience in multiplayer.  If everyone is playing Pirate Ship in a 4-player game, what ends up happening?  It seems like yes, you'd get tokens more consistently, but wouldn't everyone run out of money quickly, meaning fewer total tokens?  What's an average Pirate Ship worth in such a game, once everything has been trashed?

Someone (probably the person who goes first/gets to play the ship first) gets better luck, more tokens, and probably triumphs.

Okay, here's a crazy idea. Use your opponents' Pirate Ships, and maybe a Lookout of your own, to trash down to a deck of less than five cards. Now your cash is safe, and as long as you bought an Explorer before this point, you can generate Silver easily enough. You can buy Islands to clear out the Lookout along with your eventual Victory cards... and hopefully never have a deck above 5 cards.

Might be way too hard to achieve this ideal deck, though.

If you're playing with four people, Pirate Ship will absolutely dominate. I don't see Embargoes really getting in the way of that.

With two people, Caravan/Bazaar/Wharf should beat the Pirate Ship person.

With three people, it will be borderline. If both your opponents buy Pirate Ship... it might be hard to overcome them with the Carvan/Bazaar/Wharf strategy.

It's also worth noting that Haven and Explorer can mitigate the Pirate Ship attack: Haven, because it sets a card aside until your next turn, and Explorer, because you get to use the Treasure at least once before Pirate Ship has a chance at trashing it. But I doubt either of these things could overcome three Pirate Shippers (perhaps not even two).

Thanks for putting this together, Qvist!

This is a pretty good list. I still say Secret Chamber is worse than Duchess, but they're so close it doesn't really matter. I would also switch Embargo and Cellar. Embargo can actually effect the strategic landscape of a game, whereas Cellar is inessential at best.

Fools Gold at 5 surprised me. Lot of people had a bad experience, I take it?

General Discussion / Re: Demographics of F.DS
« on: December 31, 2011, 10:46:54 pm »
Detroit, Michigan (USA).

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Woodcutter vs Nomad Camp
« on: December 22, 2011, 02:49:46 pm »
If you know you will have extra +actions next turn, it mitigates the risks of colliding your Nomad Camp with something else. I've found that Fishing Village, for instance, combos well with Nomad Camp, since it gives you extra +actions and money next turn.

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