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26

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies

« on: September 16, 2017, 06:49:26 pm »

In a similar vein, Storyteller + Capital

I've once had an opponent do it and I guess it could be reasonable some of the time but he didn't get any other money and just kept going deeper and deeper into debt. He resigned at 30 or so.

27

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which Removed Cards Do You Use IRL?

« on: September 11, 2017, 06:58:33 pm »

Back when I only had Base and Seaside and played quite a few Base only IRL games, before 2nd Editions came out, I got fed up with boring games with lots of dead cards and decided to remove Spy, Thief, Woodcutter, Chancellor, Adventurer, Feast and Bureaucrat (Mine was a candidate as well but apparently people like it). I managed to convince my friends that this made the game far more enjoyable. Now that I have both 1st ed Base and 1st ed Intrigue I don't use any of the removed cards (and I didn't put Bureaucrat back in the box either).

28

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Turn 1 Overlord

« on: September 09, 2017, 01:47:20 pm »

In fact I'm so commited to that I opened -/Overlord once with a 2/5

Which card on the board made you choose to open with Overlord instead of one of the 5s? Trading Post? It has to be something that's good early and then gets really bad really quickly, right? If you want to play it as a 5 that's good in the long run, you'd rather buy that directly and not have 3D (if you realize you only have to take 1D it's close). Flexibility likely doesn't matter when your deck is just starting cards +Overlord, in the early game you'll be playing it as the same thing a bunch of times.

Are my opponents just mad?

Yes

I just needed the confirmation because (somewhat) highly rated players keep doing it and I wanted make sure I'm not the idiot here.

29

Dominion General Discussion / Turn 1 Overlord

« on: September 09, 2017, 11:22:52 am »

Lately I keep playing against people who buy Overlord on turn 1 when there are perfectly reasonable cards for them to buy instead and they could just get it on turn 2 (example T1 Overlord, shuffle with 1 D instead of T1 Silver T2 Overlord shuffle with 4D). Is there a reason for this? Have people reached the conclusion that it's better to lower the chance of Overlord missing the shuffle than to (probably) play Overlord and Silver (people do it with actual good cards too) on the first shuffle? Are my opponents just mad?

30

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion Strategy: Then, Now, and the Future

« on: September 07, 2017, 08:37:35 pm »

Can someone clue me in on why everybody seems to expect AdamH to go full Cromwell? Did something specific happen that animated this belief?

31

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How many cards have you drawn from Tacticians in one turn?

« on: September 03, 2017, 01:29:11 pm »

my answer is................5!

It is in fact possible to draw 5! cards from Tacticians at the start of one turn in a two player game. That's kind of funny.

One way to do it is to put the +Card token on Tactician, play a Tactician and then call 9 Royal Carriages and 14 Estates (thanks Ambassador!) after Inheriting Royal Carriage.

//edit: I didn't realize this thread was necroed.

You could also just play King's Court on Tactician before calling 9 Royal Carriages and 11 Estates. Or just play 8x KC 8x Tactician all with +Card.

Of course you can use King's Court to reduce the number of Carriages required by 2 (not 3), but does multiple King's Courts work? You're assuming cards on Tac not Court, right? Can you explain in detail how you manage to play all those Tacticians and have each one discard at least one card? I think one of us is confused about how this works.

32

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How many cards have you drawn from Tacticians in one turn?

« on: September 03, 2017, 12:26:43 pm »

my answer is................5!

It is in fact possible to draw 5! cards from Tacticians at the start of one turn in a two player game. That's kind of funny.

One way to do it is to put the +Card token on Tactician, play a Tactician and then call 9 Royal Carriages and 14 Estates (thanks Ambassador!) after Inheriting Royal Carriage.

//edit: I didn't realize this thread was necroed.

33

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: September 03, 2017, 10:45:00 am »

Peddler + Seaway + Training

Game-ID 6534660

Got 9 Grand Markets in relatively few turns.

34

Dominion: Nocturne Previews / Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!

« on: August 08, 2017, 04:44:18 pm »

The theme of Dominion is a veneer only slightly thicker than graphene.  Trying to say that these cards don't fit thematically is a bit silly.

Right. I mean, the range of eras represented by the cards is quite large. What cards best represent the two extreme ends of this range? Which is the most "primitive" card and which is the most "advanced?"

Dominate shows Vercingetorix laying his weapons down in front of Caesar, which happened 52 B.C. Be my guest to find the other extreme.

Catapults are attested from at least 400 BCE

I believe the other half of that pile dates back even further.

35

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Edge Cases: Why Do Something Ridiculous?

« on: August 04, 2017, 06:48:58 pm »

King's Courting a Beggar w/ 8 Provinces left?

I've actually done that. King's Court+Beggar+Artificer is preeetty good. Probably worth elaborating: The kingdom was King's Court, Smithy, Artificer, Beggar, IGG, Duke, Scouting Party and some nonsense; no trashing, no +buy and no village other than KC. Opponent went for the IGGs. The turn after he bought the 10th IGG, I gained the remaining King's Courts, Smithies, Artificers, Coppers, Provinces, Duchies and Dukes.

36

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 12, 2017, 02:43:56 pm »

Don't feed the Awaclus.

I'll try stick to that advice from now on, just one last thing because I can't help it:

What's more is that you also can't apply the 52-card deck math to 60-card decks as directly as you might think based on the fact that the difference between 52 and 60 doesn't seem that big, because the difference between 52! and 60! is actually pretty big.

I don't know why you think the difference between 52! and 60! plays a role if you are, as you claim to be, familiar with the research on this problem. From the first paragraph of the paper by Bayer & Diaconis:

3/2 log2(n)+θ shuffles are necessary and sufficient to mix up n cards.

Logarithmic growth <linear < polynomial < exponential < factorial growth, in case you weren't aware.

37

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 12, 2017, 01:17:13 pm »

I've played Magic since I was 8 and practiced close-up sleight of hand tricks since high school but yeah, I bet I've only ever riffle shuffled a deck of cards once.

I'm not saying the research on this subject is wrong, I'm saying you are drawing conclusions that don't actually follow from the data.

You are making claims that contradict the findings of the research, one of which is that their model does in fact accurately represent human shuffling. You claimed to have shown this is not true without telling us how you accomplished that. If you released your work and it turned out to be what you say it is, it will surely be published. there might be fame and money in it for you!

The better you are at riffle shuffling, the closer you are to the perfect riffle shuffle which is a fully deterministic procedure and not at all random, it is very possible to practice until you get it right every time, and any practice you get in shuffling gets you closer to that and further away from the mathematical model.

If you specifically practice the perfect shuffle, you can get it pretty reliably if you try. That doesn't mean you won't be able to stop yourself from shuffling this way unconsciously.

It's not a difficult concept. Pile shuffling increases entropy, and entropy makes it more difficult to predict the order in which your cards are.

So your point of critique against riffle shuffling is that under certain circumstances (which don't arise unless someone is purposely trying to cheat; I'm talking about actual shuffling, not card tricks) it is deterministic. Adding a layer of deterministic rearrangement of the cards ought to fix that!

38

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 12, 2017, 11:20:34 am »

I have experimentally shown that the mathematical model is not a good fit to human shuffling.

I don't know how you think you've proven the research I linked wrong since you haven't posted any proof, did you just shuffle a deck of cards once and expect us to trust you saying it wasn't well shuffled? Do you think all the research on this subject as well as the experience of card players from the past centuries are wrong and you know better because you shuffled a deck once?

In fact, the mathematical model is the optimal way to shuffle the cards and any human way to shuffle them is worse.

...

What the mathematical model does show is that fewer than seven riffle shuffles can't be enough to randomize the deck, but it doesn't show that seven is enough, it's just a lower bound.

You obviously haven't read any research on this topic. May I suggest actually reading the paper I linked or perhaps this famous paper, which was the first peer reviewed paper on the subject afaik. How you can think that being better at shuffling cards makes you worse at shuffling cards is a mystery to me.

Seven riffles plus a pile shuffle are entirely sufficient though. The patterns are there but it doesn't matter since the pile shuffle makes it practically impossible to detect them.

That doesn't even make any sense. I'm starting to think you're actually trolling.

39

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 12, 2017, 09:02:00 am »

They wash or corgi shuffle in casinos because that way the dealer can't cheat. Ask any dealer though and they will tell you that riffle shuffling the cards is the best way of randomizing and will get the job done in seven shuffles. If we scroll up from the page drsteelhammer linked, we find this by the way:

The Gilbert–Shannon–Reeds model provides a mathematical model of the random outcomes of riffling, that has been shown experimentally to be a good fit to human shuffling[2] and that forms the basis for a recommendation that card decks be riffled seven times in order to randomize them thoroughly.[3]

40

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 12, 2017, 07:21:10 am »

No, it's been known from experience that this does in fact randomize the cards. 7 shuffles are enough and pile shuffling doesn't help randomize your cards.

No, it doesn't in fact randomize the cards perfectly and pile shuffling makes it more difficult for you to keep track of where your cards are.

You're just wrong. If you don't believe me, read up on it; google is your friend.

You're just wrong. If you don't believe me, try actually riffle shuffling a deck 7 times and see what happens.

I have done that before. Casino dealers and mathematicians know I'm right, there's plenty of literature out there backing me up but apparently you're just going to believe alternative facts.

41

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 12, 2017, 05:24:37 am »

No, it's been known from experience that this does in fact randomize the cards. 7 shuffles are enough and pile shuffling doesn't help randomize your cards.

No, it doesn't in fact randomize the cards perfectly and pile shuffling makes it more difficult for you to keep track of where your cards are.

You're just wrong. If you don't believe me, read up on it; google is your friend.

42

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 11, 2017, 11:11:27 pm »

No. It's been known for centuries that seven shuffles are enough to randomize a deck of 52 cards as well as you could ask for, you can also check out a maths paper on this subject here.

It has been known in mathematics but it has never been possible to directly apply it to physical shuffling. The math assumes that when you riffle shuffle, each possible way to arrange the cards is equally likely, but this is not the case in practice.

No, it's been known from experience that this does in fact randomize the cards. 7 shuffles are enough and pile shuffling doesn't help randomize your cards.

43

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 11, 2017, 12:40:16 pm »

If you riffle about 10 or so times, you can still expect some pairs of cards that were originally next to one another still being that way or very close, not due to the random chance that they would get into the same order again after randomization, but because they never left that order.

No. It's been known for centuries that seven shuffles are enough to randomize a deck of 52 cards as well as you could ask for, you can also check out a maths paper on this subject here.

44

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?

« on: June 10, 2017, 09:57:37 pm »

Of course you're not going to shuffle perfectly, but if you just shuffle somewhat ok pile "shuffling" does nothing. In particular this part

If I pileshuffled that deck before shuffling for real, the cards end up exactly 10 cards away from one another, and the odds of those cards still being exactly 10 cards away from one another after the actual shuffle is significantly smaller because there are more chances for other cards to get in between and there are more chances for you to completely separate those cards.

is not even remotely true unless you shuffle extraordinarily poorly. Just learn how to riffle shuffle.

45

Dominion General Discussion / Re: New Promo card 2017 "Höflinge"

« on: June 01, 2017, 08:10:13 am »

I don't have the expansion pack, but according to the German Dominion facebook page, the update pack contains 14 new kingdom cards. It appears that Courtier is included separately from the other cards in a small pack equal in size to those of Promo cards, as can be seen in this picture.

Maybe they forgot to include Courtier in the first batch and these "promo" Courtiers are supposed to be shipped alongside the incomplete boxes. There is no official statement on any new promos.

46

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Help with Watchtower?

« on: May 14, 2017, 04:43:01 am »

and if you're drawing your deck, topdecking a gain is identical to a regular gain if your discard and deck are empty.

Uhhh... no? Unless you assume the chance of drawing the deck every turn is 100% and certain cards being in your starting hand (reactions, banes, Provinces in Tournament games etc.) is irrelevant.

47

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Uninteresting Moments in Dominion

« on: May 12, 2017, 11:32:22 pm »

Just finished a game in which we split the Scrying Pools 5/5 and I drew no Scrying Pools for two shuffles straight.

48

Dominion League / Re: Season 20 - Results

« on: April 13, 2017, 03:00:57 pm »

Sitting out next season.

49

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you've seen?

« on: March 13, 2017, 03:47:11 am »

Playing treasures then playing Watchtower to draw. This happened in a real life tournament. There was no Black Market or Villa. Do not even try to justify this, dude.

Storyteller!

Also, Crown.

I don't believe this counts, as in that case, you're playing Crown as an action card, not Treasure.

Well you're playing it as an Action-Treasure card, as always. The type doesn't change regardless of timing.

50

Dominion League / Re: Season 20 - Results

« on: March 12, 2017, 07:17:15 pm »

D4: sorawotobu 4 - 2 ravi