251
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 29, 2019, 09:18:09 am »
Challenge #30: Design a Debt card (or card-shaped thing): Commentary & Results
Thank you everyone for the submissions, there were a lot of fun ideas! OPs are hyperlinked, shortlisted entries are bolded.
Lender by naitchman
A Smithy that lets you draw an extra card for 1 Debt or pay off 1 Debt before your Buy phase. The ability to remove Debt synergizes nicely with the card’s effects and cost (and other Debt cards as well). In the early game, it’s uncommon for the extra card to be worth that much more than the Debt it costs, but later these become cheap Hunting Grounds that can help pay for themselves. The Vault effect comes at a steep cost, but players may be able to mitigate this with Lenders of their own.
Monoculture by Frolouch
Hopefully, this is the final version of the like thirty I think I saw. The variety theme is nice, though the potion cost feels a bit strange—I get that it’s there to prevent people from being able to basically open Platinum, but I wonder if costing $6 might be a better solution. I also worry this may play too similarly to Capital.
Recompense by Aquila
An interesting Remodel variant with a nice gain-and-play feature. The wording for adding it to your next hand doesn’t feel quite right—I think there should be set-aside language in there somewhere, though it opens up strategies where you avoid paying off debt to keep using it. The <6> cost feels a bit high, especially since it gives you more Debt each time you play it.
Grant by Gubump
I believe Donald X. has mentioned a similar card that he tested before settling on Capital. The non-Victory clause helps prevent Grant from being too strong as a finisher, but the effect still allows for some unique plays. I don’t love the cost reduction wording, but I can’t think of anything better. <6> also feels just slightly too expensive.
Blueprints by King Leon
A cantrip $5 gainer with clever use of Debt to keep its gains to usually one per turn. Simple and straightforward, I like it.
Hostage/Ransom by ClouduHieh
As others have already pointed out, Hostage’s attack is way stronger than Witch and costs less. I’ve never been a fan of just slapping negative VP on an OP card in hopes of balancing it, as even -3 VP here isn’t enough to dissuade someone from opening this in every game it’s in. Ransom is expensive and will be revealed far too late to have any hopes of stopping Hostage’s onslaught.
Draw Bridge by Kudasai
Cute naming puns aside, the Highway plus Buy for Debt actually feels surprisingly balanced. The fact that its cost reduction can’t help gain more copies is what makes this card so interesting. Playing with Draw Bridge as your payload will feel like playing with City Quarter as your only Village or Draw—there’s not really a lot of ways to easily get a bunch of them quickly or cheaply, so you have to be even more strategic about when you get them and how you plan to pay for them. Nice one!
Prophet by majiponi
Essentially this allows players to guarantee a $1/$5 opening or a $3/$3 opening in case you absolutely must open Mountebank or Sentry or Double Ambassador or something. I’m not sure how often choosing to buy this or not would make for interesting choices, and it doesn’t affect the game beyond the opening.
Classroom by pubby
A cheap Lab that gives you Debt, similar to Asper’s Scientist. The Debt cost means Workshop variants can’t gain it, which I don’t love, but it otherwise seems mostly balanced.
Tollkeeper by herw
It’s Tax but as a card! The non-terminal Coffers are solid payload and the Tax effect works a bit like Embargo, coming before you buy cards, which is always a bit awkward. As with Tax, the dream of hitting the cards your opponent wants but never the ones you want is usually far from reality since you often end up kicking yourself as you buy the card you just Taxed earlier.
Revenant by segura
Ignoring the heated debates over how attacks scale with player count, the inconsistency Revenant’s benefits and attack make this one a hard sell for me, though I quite like the idea here. Sometimes it nets you just one or two Coffers and doesn’t hurt your opponents at all (and can potentially hurt you instead as segura mentioned), while other times it can be a windfall of Coffers. Also, the fact that you are affected by both other players’ Revenant’s and your own also seems to stack poorly, even just in two-player.
Flashing Lights by boggreaux
A one-shot Sea Hag that turns into Wisps later—it’s an interesting concept, however there are several problems. First, this needs Sea Hag’s discard the top card wording to prevent multiples from leaving large stacks of Curses on the deck. Secondly, I worry this will lead to degenerate IGG-like slogs, though at least the Wisps will help you cycle through the junk. And finally, the Debt cost feels out of place here—it antisynergizes with Wisps and doesn’t seem to really add anything otherwise.
Planned City by NoMoreFun
Another take Debt for +Cards, I like that when you don’t need the draw, these can help pay off the Debt from other Planned Cities. Fairly simple and straightforward, my only concern is that <4> might a bit cheap for what are essentially Lost Cities much of the time. I like it for the most part though.
Broker by mail-mi
The ideas here are great, but I think the attack might be a bit too harsh. Even without getting hit twice for the Militia attack, getting <2> is like two Cutpurses which is pretty brutal, especially in the early game. Perhaps <1> might be better here—then it would be more similar to taking the -$1 token and still allows for multiples to Militia. The Debt-Bridge effect is creative, allowing to hit price points you couldn’t usually, though at the cost of making cheap things (and Debt cards) more expensive if you play too many. Very neat.
Banker by faust
It’s a unique take on a cheap Band of Misfits variant, but I agree with Commodore Chuckles that the Debt penalty is too harsh. There are very few cards I’d be willing to pay full price for to play once in most situations, which makes Banker a tough sell in many kingdoms. Halving the Debt penalty might be better, or perhaps a static amount like <2> or <3>.
Mortgage by Commodore Chuckles
Wow, there are some crazy numbers on this card! The 20 VP of course is alluring, but man, that Debt hurts. The Treasure ability that lets you buy cards while in Debt is cool and makes for some tough decisions of when to buy cards and when to just bite the bullet and make your payments. My biggest worry here is that this card may lead to some unfun strategies of just buying them one by one and then paying off Debt, while ignoring most other VP sources. 20 VP is a bonkers amount of points and as long as you have a plan to be out of Debt before the game ends, it’s hard to think of boards where you wouldn’t just always go for these. Tricky to say though without playing it but it’s certainly a bold idea! If nothing else, this card wins the Most Thematic award as it’s a way too real reminder of my own actual mortgage.
Coachman by Freddy10
Another take Debt for +Cards. This one is the simplest of the bunch, and I think I actually like the $2 price point rather that $3. It’s nice that it can just be Moat when you don’t need a Hunting Grounds. Very clean and straightforward design.
Insurance by hhelibebcnofnena
The wording here is very confusing—please help me understand how this is supposed to work. If it’s supposed to be a one-shot, it’s a one-time +2 Cards for <8> or possibly a lot more, something nobody would ever buy. If it’s not one-shot and the +2 Cards is supposed to be every turn or something, that’s better, a sort of Hireling variant, though I still don’t like the “interest” penalty. Your mention of Sinister Plot makes me assume it’s closer to the latter, but the current wording definitely isn’t right.
Royal Academy by Gazbag
I slightly preferred the first version of this card personally, but I still like this version too. It is a very powerful card to be sure, but as with many of the official <8> cards, it’s not good to open with and it can’t really help you get more of them. Tying the gaining to the throning like Disciple is key, and while the two cards are indeed very similar, having this one as a Kingdom card will make it play very differently from the Traveller version.
Student by scolapasta
I like the concept of Student a lot—a Band of Misfits that slowly gets better and better, but it seems like the amount of text it takes to get this to work might not be worth it. It seems relatively balanced in its current state, but I can’t imagine trying to remember all the exact wording on the cards while playing with it—“When do I turn cards over again? How much Debt do I need to take again?” Also, the Debt interaction also feels somewhat forced here—it works but it isn’t clear that it’s the best way to accomplish what it’s trying to accomplish. Overpay or something else might be simpler. It would be interesting to see a revamped version with less tortured wording that somehow retains a similar idea.
Runner Up: Blueprints by King Leon
WINNER: Draw Bridge by Kudasai
Congrats to Kudasai and thanks again everyone for participating!
Thank you everyone for the submissions, there were a lot of fun ideas! OPs are hyperlinked, shortlisted entries are bolded.
Lender by naitchman
A Smithy that lets you draw an extra card for 1 Debt or pay off 1 Debt before your Buy phase. The ability to remove Debt synergizes nicely with the card’s effects and cost (and other Debt cards as well). In the early game, it’s uncommon for the extra card to be worth that much more than the Debt it costs, but later these become cheap Hunting Grounds that can help pay for themselves. The Vault effect comes at a steep cost, but players may be able to mitigate this with Lenders of their own.
Monoculture by Frolouch
Hopefully, this is the final version of the like thirty I think I saw. The variety theme is nice, though the potion cost feels a bit strange—I get that it’s there to prevent people from being able to basically open Platinum, but I wonder if costing $6 might be a better solution. I also worry this may play too similarly to Capital.
Recompense by Aquila
An interesting Remodel variant with a nice gain-and-play feature. The wording for adding it to your next hand doesn’t feel quite right—I think there should be set-aside language in there somewhere, though it opens up strategies where you avoid paying off debt to keep using it. The <6> cost feels a bit high, especially since it gives you more Debt each time you play it.
Grant by Gubump
I believe Donald X. has mentioned a similar card that he tested before settling on Capital. The non-Victory clause helps prevent Grant from being too strong as a finisher, but the effect still allows for some unique plays. I don’t love the cost reduction wording, but I can’t think of anything better. <6> also feels just slightly too expensive.
Blueprints by King Leon
A cantrip $5 gainer with clever use of Debt to keep its gains to usually one per turn. Simple and straightforward, I like it.
Hostage/Ransom by ClouduHieh
As others have already pointed out, Hostage’s attack is way stronger than Witch and costs less. I’ve never been a fan of just slapping negative VP on an OP card in hopes of balancing it, as even -3 VP here isn’t enough to dissuade someone from opening this in every game it’s in. Ransom is expensive and will be revealed far too late to have any hopes of stopping Hostage’s onslaught.
Draw Bridge by Kudasai
Cute naming puns aside, the Highway plus Buy for Debt actually feels surprisingly balanced. The fact that its cost reduction can’t help gain more copies is what makes this card so interesting. Playing with Draw Bridge as your payload will feel like playing with City Quarter as your only Village or Draw—there’s not really a lot of ways to easily get a bunch of them quickly or cheaply, so you have to be even more strategic about when you get them and how you plan to pay for them. Nice one!
Prophet by majiponi
Essentially this allows players to guarantee a $1/$5 opening or a $3/$3 opening in case you absolutely must open Mountebank or Sentry or Double Ambassador or something. I’m not sure how often choosing to buy this or not would make for interesting choices, and it doesn’t affect the game beyond the opening.
Classroom by pubby
A cheap Lab that gives you Debt, similar to Asper’s Scientist. The Debt cost means Workshop variants can’t gain it, which I don’t love, but it otherwise seems mostly balanced.
Tollkeeper by herw
It’s Tax but as a card! The non-terminal Coffers are solid payload and the Tax effect works a bit like Embargo, coming before you buy cards, which is always a bit awkward. As with Tax, the dream of hitting the cards your opponent wants but never the ones you want is usually far from reality since you often end up kicking yourself as you buy the card you just Taxed earlier.
Revenant by segura
Ignoring the heated debates over how attacks scale with player count, the inconsistency Revenant’s benefits and attack make this one a hard sell for me, though I quite like the idea here. Sometimes it nets you just one or two Coffers and doesn’t hurt your opponents at all (and can potentially hurt you instead as segura mentioned), while other times it can be a windfall of Coffers. Also, the fact that you are affected by both other players’ Revenant’s and your own also seems to stack poorly, even just in two-player.
Flashing Lights by boggreaux
A one-shot Sea Hag that turns into Wisps later—it’s an interesting concept, however there are several problems. First, this needs Sea Hag’s discard the top card wording to prevent multiples from leaving large stacks of Curses on the deck. Secondly, I worry this will lead to degenerate IGG-like slogs, though at least the Wisps will help you cycle through the junk. And finally, the Debt cost feels out of place here—it antisynergizes with Wisps and doesn’t seem to really add anything otherwise.
Planned City by NoMoreFun
Another take Debt for +Cards, I like that when you don’t need the draw, these can help pay off the Debt from other Planned Cities. Fairly simple and straightforward, my only concern is that <4> might a bit cheap for what are essentially Lost Cities much of the time. I like it for the most part though.
Broker by mail-mi
The ideas here are great, but I think the attack might be a bit too harsh. Even without getting hit twice for the Militia attack, getting <2> is like two Cutpurses which is pretty brutal, especially in the early game. Perhaps <1> might be better here—then it would be more similar to taking the -$1 token and still allows for multiples to Militia. The Debt-Bridge effect is creative, allowing to hit price points you couldn’t usually, though at the cost of making cheap things (and Debt cards) more expensive if you play too many. Very neat.
Banker by faust
It’s a unique take on a cheap Band of Misfits variant, but I agree with Commodore Chuckles that the Debt penalty is too harsh. There are very few cards I’d be willing to pay full price for to play once in most situations, which makes Banker a tough sell in many kingdoms. Halving the Debt penalty might be better, or perhaps a static amount like <2> or <3>.
Mortgage by Commodore Chuckles
Wow, there are some crazy numbers on this card! The 20 VP of course is alluring, but man, that Debt hurts. The Treasure ability that lets you buy cards while in Debt is cool and makes for some tough decisions of when to buy cards and when to just bite the bullet and make your payments. My biggest worry here is that this card may lead to some unfun strategies of just buying them one by one and then paying off Debt, while ignoring most other VP sources. 20 VP is a bonkers amount of points and as long as you have a plan to be out of Debt before the game ends, it’s hard to think of boards where you wouldn’t just always go for these. Tricky to say though without playing it but it’s certainly a bold idea! If nothing else, this card wins the Most Thematic award as it’s a way too real reminder of my own actual mortgage.
Coachman by Freddy10
Another take Debt for +Cards. This one is the simplest of the bunch, and I think I actually like the $2 price point rather that $3. It’s nice that it can just be Moat when you don’t need a Hunting Grounds. Very clean and straightforward design.
Insurance by hhelibebcnofnena
The wording here is very confusing—please help me understand how this is supposed to work. If it’s supposed to be a one-shot, it’s a one-time +2 Cards for <8> or possibly a lot more, something nobody would ever buy. If it’s not one-shot and the +2 Cards is supposed to be every turn or something, that’s better, a sort of Hireling variant, though I still don’t like the “interest” penalty. Your mention of Sinister Plot makes me assume it’s closer to the latter, but the current wording definitely isn’t right.
Royal Academy by Gazbag
I slightly preferred the first version of this card personally, but I still like this version too. It is a very powerful card to be sure, but as with many of the official <8> cards, it’s not good to open with and it can’t really help you get more of them. Tying the gaining to the throning like Disciple is key, and while the two cards are indeed very similar, having this one as a Kingdom card will make it play very differently from the Traveller version.
Student by scolapasta
I like the concept of Student a lot—a Band of Misfits that slowly gets better and better, but it seems like the amount of text it takes to get this to work might not be worth it. It seems relatively balanced in its current state, but I can’t imagine trying to remember all the exact wording on the cards while playing with it—“When do I turn cards over again? How much Debt do I need to take again?” Also, the Debt interaction also feels somewhat forced here—it works but it isn’t clear that it’s the best way to accomplish what it’s trying to accomplish. Overpay or something else might be simpler. It would be interesting to see a revamped version with less tortured wording that somehow retains a similar idea.
Runner Up: Blueprints by King Leon
WINNER: Draw Bridge by Kudasai
Congrats to Kudasai and thanks again everyone for participating!
