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26

Rules Questions / Re: Duration and Way of the Squirrel

« on: March 07, 2022, 07:59:06 pm »

I believe this would sort itself out if the official rules stated:

- Each Way gives Action cards an additional option: you can play the Action for what it normally does, or play it to do what the Way says to do.
and
- If the card you are playing is a Duration card, it only stays in play if at least one of its plays was for what it normally does. If it does stay in play, you will have to remember for your next turn how many times you actually played the Duration for what it normally does.

or

- Each Way gives Action cards an additional option: you can play the Action for its own abilities, or play it to do what the Way says to do.
and
- If the card you are playing is a Duration card, it only stays in play if at least one of its plays was for its own abilities. If it does stay in play, you will have to remember for your next turn how many times you actually played the Duration card for its own abilities.

I don’t know if I understand this correctly, but to me, it seems like these two rule sets say exactly the same thing, just in different ways. If I’m correct, keeping to one of these wordings (or the other; it doesn’t really matter which one of them you use) will make it clear you won’t keep the duration card in play for multiple rounds, if you only played it for what the Way says to do, no matter the timing of the effect of the Way, whether it’s played as a Chameleon, Mouse, Squirrel or any other Way.

27

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2E Announced

« on: March 07, 2022, 09:06:49 am »

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I've downloaded the ASS Handelskatalog which is given as a source for the BGG image, but it shows another Seaside rulebook image on p. 96 than the BGG image does. I can quite clearly identify Ambassador, Pirate Ship and Sea Hag on the right-hand side of the ASS Handelskatalog rulebook. So I would wait for a more reliable source of the list of removed cards...

That’s an image of the first edition, though (with only 26 kingdom piles).

I suppose you're right. The German text in the ASS catalogue also doesn't mention replaced cards, unlike the text in the BGG image.

But it's still strange that the BGG image is different from the one in the so-called source. It's conceivable that ASS changed its trading catalogue since January without changing its URL, but why would they revert the image from 2nd edition Seaside to 1st edition? 

I’m not in the know, but my guess is that someone, perhaps Rio Grande Games, reacted to the fact that the catalogue spoiled their coming release and demanded that the catalogue was reverted back to it’s former state. The BGG image also mentions that this is the 2nd edition, while stating that the 1st edition is sold out. There’s no mention of any editions in the current catalogue, just that Seaside’s available again in April after being temporarily out of stock.

I think the BGG image is legit, and I’m both a bit saddened and very enthused by the news. Some personal favorites are removed, but I’m thrilled to see what they come up with of new cards. Only one attack card remains, and Cutpurse is definitely not the strongest one. If I’m correct in assuming that we’ll finally get a reaction card in this set, having just Cutpurse as an attack card seems very strange.

Even though I’m sad to see a couple of cool cards go, I think the most important thing to keep the game vibrant and strong is to refine balance and cut down on time-consuming actions or difficult wordings.

28

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2E Announced

« on: March 06, 2022, 06:46:19 pm »

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside
…
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
…
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I’m not sure I agree. There seems to be 10 white action cards and 14 orange duraction cards in total. I think the three cards on the pictured right hand side of the rulebook are Island (at the top), a yellow treasure card and a blue reaction card. The rulebook seems to group the cards by color.
If I’m correct, the nine new cards should be 1 white action card, 6 orange durations cards, 1 yellow treasure card and 1 blue reaction card.

29

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2E Announced

« on: March 06, 2022, 06:15:06 pm »

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I've downloaded the ASS Handelskatalog which is given as a source for the BGG image, but it shows another Seaside rulebook image on p. 96 than the BGG image does. I can quite clearly identify Ambassador, Pirate Ship and Sea Hag on the right-hand side of the ASS Handelskatalog rulebook. So I would wait for a more reliable source of the list of removed cards...

That’s an image of the first edition, though (with only 26 kingdom piles).

30

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2E Announced

« on: March 04, 2022, 06:21:22 am »

Seaside: Pearl Diver, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Embargo, Lookout. The first three are duds; Sea Hag because I don't like having two cheap junking attacks in one set and would rather take out Sea Hag than Ambassador, plus some people don't like that it has no upside, just attack; Embargo is a dud but also I get to not include Embargo tokens; Lookout is fine but a lot of casual players don't like it. With any 2E I would try to make better versions of cards that left that had merit to the premise or flavor, and would try to get more use out of extra components. So here, I'd have maybe 3 cards that used the coin tokens, and a different Pirate Ship. I wanted to do a Seaside 2E; it didn't happen because Jay didn't want to ask Valerie if we could replace Harem and give her a new card in Intrigue 2E, and well Seaside has two cards depicting people, Pearl Diver and Navigator. Plus Jay had boxes of Embargo tokens sitting around. It still might happen someday; the usual problem is, it's competing with all other projects.

Thanks, trivialknot! I remember reading this, but I couldn’t remember the specifics. Now I believe the cut cards will be these six plus Island and Native Village. It gets rid of all the player mats and tokens while removing the six cards most recently mentioned in public by DXV as cards he would like to remove. It all makes sense.

I’m modifying my guess. I think (and hope) Native Village will stay, but without a board. I’m thinking a sideways card like that for Young Witch (there’s room for one additional card, and I think, as I’ve already stated, that they will get rid of the boards and tokens for this expansion). The replacement cut will be Merchant Ship, i think. It’s, IMHO, the worst remaining card, by far. So my modified list of eight cuts will be:

- Embargo
- Island
- Lookout
- Merchant Ship
- Navigator
- Pearl Diver
- Pirate Ship
- Sea Hag

31

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles

« on: March 02, 2022, 08:02:39 am »

So, all three announced victory cards are part of split piles. Meaning a total of twelve physical cards, just like one normal victory point pile.

What? Is this a theory of yours? We’ve only see one Victory card previewed so far.

We know that there’s going to be 346 kingdom cards. 31 different kingdom card piles means at least 310 cards, unless we suddenly see a kingdom pile containing less than 10 cards. This means that only 36 cards are left. Of couse, it’s possible that we have an action card with 12 copies, just like Port, or a victory card with 10, but the six announced rotates and the information in this post lead me to believe that we have six split piles in total with 16 cards each, and if so, there’s no room for a regular victory card pile (one containing 12 copies). I don’t know this for sure, but everything seems to add up, so I ventured an informed guess.

32

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles

« on: March 02, 2022, 03:53:55 am »

So, all three announced victory cards are part of split piles. Meaning a total of twelve physical cards, just like one normal victory card pile.

33

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2E Announced

« on: February 01, 2022, 03:36:14 am »

Seaside: Pearl Diver, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Embargo, Lookout. The first three are duds; Sea Hag because I don't like having two cheap junking attacks in one set and would rather take out Sea Hag than Ambassador, plus some people don't like that it has no upside, just attack; Embargo is a dud but also I get to not include Embargo tokens; Lookout is fine but a lot of casual players don't like it. With any 2E I would try to make better versions of cards that left that had merit to the premise or flavor, and would try to get more use out of extra components. So here, I'd have maybe 3 cards that used the coin tokens, and a different Pirate Ship. I wanted to do a Seaside 2E; it didn't happen because Jay didn't want to ask Valerie if we could replace Harem and give her a new card in Intrigue 2E, and well Seaside has two cards depicting people, Pearl Diver and Navigator. Plus Jay had boxes of Embargo tokens sitting around. It still might happen someday; the usual problem is, it's competing with all other projects.

Thanks, trivialknot! I remember reading this, but I couldn’t remember the specifics. Now I believe the cut cards will be these six plus Island and Native Village. It gets rid of all the player mats and tokens while removing the six cards most recently mentioned in public by DXV as cards he would like to remove. It all makes sense.

34

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2E Announced

« on: January 31, 2022, 04:52:19 am »

I agree with Erick, I believe Navigator and Pearl Diver might be saved, though they both should be among the first to go, but hopefully the same guys can be included in the artwork for some of the new cards, so that this wouldn’t be a problem.

I also think they will add a kingdom card slot (going from 26 to 27), so eight will probably be removed. If that’s the case, I hope these are the ones that will leave:
- Cutpurse
- Embargo
- Explorer
- Merchant Ship
- Navigator
- Pearl Diver
- Pirate Ship
- Treasure Map

But I think these will leave:
- Embargo
- Explorer
- Island
- Merchant Ship
- Native Village
- Pirate Ship
- Sea Hag
- Treasure Map

Extra components like mats and tokens only useable by one card are elements I’m pretty certain will be removed, so that’s why I believe that Embargo, Island, Native Village and Pirate Ship all will be removed. Pirate Ship has the added confusion with the coin tokens, so that’s another strong argument for that particular card to be removed. Sea Hag will probably be removed for the same reasons that Saboteur was cut. That leaves three cards, and since I’m not seeing Navigator and Pearl Diver leave, I think Explorer, Merchant Ship and Treasure Map are the weakest ones and will be cut.

35

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How many possible kingdoms are there?

« on: March 23, 2020, 11:39:27 am »

And here I was hoping for some precise combinatorials involving Young Witch's bane and Way of the Mouse, as well as an adjustment factor for kingdoms that include both.

I am disappoint.

Don't forget Obelisk, the ordering of the Knights pile, and the ordering and composition of the Ruins pile.

The ordering of the Knights pile or the Ruins pile doesn't make different kingdoms, though. Yet, the composition of the Ruins pile do. This will also vary depending on the number of players from two to six.

I'd argue that a Kingdom where Dame Anna is the top Knight plays vastly differently from one where Dame Josephine is, and thus it makes sense to call these different kingdoms.

For the Ruins pile of course it matters less, though occasionally it is relevant whether the top Ruins is RUined Market.

I agree that it plays vastly different from other Knights games, but you're talking about different experiences, not different kingdoms. Every shuffle makes each game unique as well, so those should also count, if that's the case. For every shuffle during the game, by the way. Would you say that identical kingdoms are different for two players and six players? Maybe we should multiply everything by five to take that into consideration as well? I don't know. Maybe OP can give us some more guidelines.

36

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How many possible kingdoms are there?

« on: March 23, 2020, 11:13:13 am »

What about Druid? Do different Druid Boons count as a different kingdom?

Yeah, probably. There are 1,320 different combinations of those, by the way.

37

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How many possible kingdoms are there?

« on: March 23, 2020, 10:19:49 am »

And here I was hoping for some precise combinatorials involving Young Witch's bane and Way of the Mouse, as well as an adjustment factor for kingdoms that include both.

I am disappoint.

Don't forget Obelisk, the ordering of the Knights pile, and the ordering and composition of the Ruins pile.

The ordering of the Knights pile or the Ruins pile doesn't make different kingdoms, IMHO (the kingdoms contain the exact same cards). Yet, the composition of the Ruins pile do. This will also vary depending on the number of players from two to six, so be sure to take that into account as well.

38

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How many possible kingdoms are there?

« on: March 23, 2020, 10:16:07 am »

I know this has been posited before, but that was a while ago (before Renaissance, and I think before Nocturne). I'm also too lazy to hunt down the thread. Dominion setup rules have gotten pretty complex over the years, so I'm going to do this in parts. As I keep the running totals, I'll be correcting rounding errors by just adding the formulas together in Wolfram Alpha, rather than adding the rounded numbers. With all that out of the way, let's do some math!

First, let's do just the kingdom cards. There's a total of 376 kingdom cards (including the removed cards, since they are still techincally possible dominion games). So, without any landscapes, and excluding different possibilities for Young Witch's bane card or shenanigans with the Black Market deck, that gives us 376!/(10! * 366!), or 13.8 quintillion kingdoms, rounded to the nearest 100 quadrillion.

Now, for each of them that has prosperity, there's actually two kingdoms, one with platinum/colony and one without. So how many have prosperity? If we subtract the 25 prosperity kingdom cards from the 376, that leaves us with 351 cards. Using that, we calculate the number of games that don't have prosperity (351!/(10! * 341!)) and subtract that from our 13.8 quintillion to get 6.9 quintillion kingdoms that include platinum/colony.
Running total: 20.7 quintillion kingdoms

Now we add shelters. We do the same thing we did for prosperity, but with dark ages. 376 total cards - 35 Dark Ages cards = 341 non-Dark-Ages cards. 13.8 quintillion kingdoms - (341!/10! * 331!) kingdoms without Dark Ages gives us 8.7 quintillion kingdoms with shelters.
Running total: 29.4 quintillion kingdoms

Now the math starts to get weird, because we need to add the kingdoms that have both platinum/colony and shelters. If we take the number of games without Prosperity and subtract the number of games without Dark Ages or Prosperity, that leaves us with the number of games with Dark Ages and not Prosperity. Subtract that from the 8.7 quintillion total kingdoms with Dark Ages, and we get 4.2 quintillion kingdoms with both.
Running Total: 33.5 quintillion kingdoms

Now we start with landscapes. Each of those kingdoms could be paired with any one of the 115 landscapes. So we multiply that 33.5 quintillion by 116 (adding one for the "no landscape option).
Running Total: 3.9 sextillion kingdoms (rounded to the nearest 100 quintillion)

Now because ways are weird, there's gonna be two parts to having two landscapes. First, we go back to the 33.5 quintillion and multiply that by all the possible combinations of two non-Way landscapes (95!/2 * 93!), giving us 149.8 sextillion kingdoms. That's quite a jump!
Running Total: 153.7 sextillion kingdoms
Note: At this point, Wolfram Alpha broke when I tried to have it run and add all the formulas. So much for correcting rounding error.

Finally, two landscapes, one is a Way. We take our 33.5 quintillion again, multiply by 20 Ways, and then multiply by 95 other landscapes, giving 63.7 sextillion kingdoms.

Grand Total: 217.4 sextillion possible kingdoms

There are 366 different Kingdom piles (including the removed cards), not 376:
Dominion 26(+6)
Intrigue 26 (+6)
Seaside 26
Alchemy 12
Prosperity 25
Cornucopia 13
Hinterlands 26
Dark Ages 35
Guilds 13
Adventures 30
Empires 24
Nocturne 33
Renaissance 25
Menagerie 30
Promos 10
Totals 354(+12)

Besides, there are no hard and fast rules regarding the number of landscapes, so you can potentially have anything from zero to 115 landscapes in any given game. DXV recommends using two in every game, and at most one Way. Using his recommended way of doing things will reduce the number of options considerably. As you're including the 'retired' cards, you're not following his recommendations, so you might as well include every possible combination of landscapes as described.

39

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards

« on: March 19, 2020, 10:07:22 am »

When will we get the 7* card symbol here: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Category:Card_symbols?

Oh wow I completely missed that there was a new cost symbol.. I was specifically looking for it too; at first I thought was new, but eventually found King's Castle.

I'll get the new one added to the extension shortly after someone makes it available in the Wiki.

You've either just uploaded all of these (or someone else has done it), because now I found everything there, except for the Menagerie icon (even though I manually entered the likely URL for coin7star: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Coin7star.png and found the set icon here: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Menagerie_(expansion)_icon.png).

40

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards

« on: March 19, 2020, 09:52:31 am »

Now that new symbols are brought up (and I would never have noticed this otherwise) ... this isn't new, but Capital has <$6> in its text, and Tax has both <$1> and <$2> in its text. Debt here only covers - and . Bat and Imp both cost [$2*], while here it skips from to .

They're all there, though:
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Debt6.png
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Debt1.png
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Debt2.png
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Coin2star.png

Am I missing something?

41

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards

« on: March 19, 2020, 09:49:35 am »

Now that new symbols are brought up (and I would never have noticed this otherwise) ... this isn't new, but Capital has in its text, and Tax has both and in its text. Debt here only covers - and . Bat and Imp both cost , while here it skips from to .

I must have only done ones that were actually used in costs; not thinking of other places they were used. No reason not to have them though. too. They'll be in the next update; thanks!

40 debt is there, though:
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Debt40.png

But the Menagerie icon is missing, of course.

42

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards

« on: March 16, 2020, 06:12:06 am »

Be the change you want to see in the Wiki.

I'd love to, but I'm old and not very good at stuff like this. I'll just wait for a more competent guy than me.

I'm positive we'll get the Menagerie set logo there, soon enough, and I guess they'll put this symbol up, as well.

Thanks for replying, though!

43

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Previews 1: 5 Cards

« on: March 16, 2020, 04:27:37 am »

When will we get the 7* card symbol here: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Category:Card_symbols?

44

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews

« on: March 13, 2020, 06:15:58 am »

can necromancer play cards from trash as Horses?

I’m not DXV, but why couldn’t you?

You can play the card, but it won’t return to it’s pile, as you’re actually playing Necromancer, which tells you to leave the card in the Trash. This overrides the text of the Way that tries to move the second action card.

45

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews

« on: March 13, 2020, 06:06:45 am »

can necromancer play cards from trash as Horses?

I’m not DXV, but why couldn’t you?

46

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews

« on: March 13, 2020, 03:44:34 am »

Bonus Preview 7: Way of the Horse



Everything's a Horse! Handy if there are actions you don't want anymore, or never wanted, or if you're desperate.

And suddenly Cultist becomes the worst card in the game.

Yes, in those 0.049 % of games they’re both included... Twice every 4 071 games.

47

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews

« on: March 10, 2020, 07:58:51 am »

Bonus Preview 4: Alliance

I guess it should be no surprise that some people wanted to see the teased cards; here's "province, a duchy":



You get all that stuff! You can't not take some of it.

I just want you to know that I’m extremely grateful for the extra effort you put in, not only previewing even more things, but also following the threads and clarifying things for us as we go! Is it possible to ask for a preview containing just the names of all the non-previewed cards from the expansion?

I have to reorganize my storage solution, so it would be an immensely helpful preview for me. I have everything so far, and I’m not planning on stopping. My 5-row BCW shoe box is packed, and I had to remove the randomizers earlier. Now I have to go to two (large e-raptor) boxes, so I’m really curious to see where to put everything.

A big THANK YOU, Donald! Both for the above-mentioned stuff and the fact that you’ve designed my favorite table-top game ever and continue to put out more cards. Fan for life, here!

48

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events

« on: March 08, 2020, 05:17:43 am »

Looking at the list of Way names*, I'm wondering whether it's the Goat or the Rat that trashes.

(* http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Menagerie_(expansion)&diff=47454&oldid=47447)

I’m guessing goat. I think rat would be something like «Gain a copy of this».

Also, my guess is that the goat has the «an unused action» text. Maybe something like «-1 action. If you still have an unused action, trash a card». I’m guessing that a straight up «Trash a card» would be too game-changing.

"Gain a copy of this" would be way too powerful though, unless it had something like "If this card costs $4 or less, gain a copy of it".  Otherwise, you could buy one copy of an expensive action, and then make multiple copies of it

I mean, the ones we've seen so far have all been game-warping in their own Way, so why would that be so bad?

I wasn’t Way off:

http://imgur.com/vf17Yf1.png

Although I didn’t predict the «discard a Treasure»-part.

49

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Previews 4: Ways and Events

« on: March 07, 2020, 10:43:55 pm »

Looking at the list of Way names*, I'm wondering whether it's the Goat or the Rat that trashes.

(* http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Menagerie_(expansion)&diff=47454&oldid=47447)

I’m guessing goat. I think rat would be something like «Gain a copy of this».

Also, my guess is that the goat has the «an unused action» text. Maybe something like «-1 action. If you still have an unused action, trash a card». I’m guessing that a straight up «Trash a card» would be too game-changing.

50

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Renaissance First Impnressions

« on: December 17, 2018, 10:40:12 am »

I have been quite impnressed with Renaissance overall.

Ha-ha! Nice one! 😉