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Messages - GendoIkari

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9026
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« on: February 01, 2012, 05:00:49 pm »
Arms Dealer is probably insanely powerful in sets with any +buy, and better than a Familiar without. Granted, there's no +card, but it stacks with itself. If you get 2 of them in play, then that's 3 Curses you give out. If you get 3 of them in play, that's 6 Curses. 4 of them is 10 Curses.

I don't intend for it to stack. You're either in arms dealer mode, where everyone else gains a single copy of the card instead of you gaining one, or you're not. Arms dealer+Arms dealer will give you one more buy, that's it (it'd be the same as market+arms dealer). Throne Room+Arms dealer would be useless. How do I word it so that's a bit more clear?

Also the tradeoff is you don't get to use your +buys to buy cards you want, but of course in many games with +buy you don't actually use them, so I suppose it's more powerful than I think.

The "when in play" made it clear that Throne Room / King's Court won't double the effect. But I thought having 2 of them out at once would. But petrie911 might be right... because it's an "instead." I don't think Dominion quite has rules, like MTG does, dealing with "replacement effects." The only thing that exists like that is the "would gain" wording on Trader and Possession. And with that wording,  both Arms Dealers in play would trigger when you would gain a card. I don't know what wording can be used to fix it. I can't think of anything to specifically make it so that only 1 of the 2 Arms Dealers will trigger.

9027
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Race to the Golden Deck
« on: February 01, 2012, 04:54:03 pm »
Hint for your solution? Is the key that my options are missing Watchtower?

9028
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Race to the Golden Deck
« on: February 01, 2012, 04:52:22 pm »
While I realize that in principle Dominion can have any number of players, I usually think of it as restricted to 4.

Fair enough. :)

9029
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Race to the Golden Deck
« on: February 01, 2012, 04:30:44 pm »
8 Turns  :-\
Turn 1: Contraband
Turn 2: Chapel
Draw Chapel 3x Estate Copper
Turn 3: Chapel 3x Estate Copper
Draw Contraband, 4x Copper
Turn 4: Contraband, 4x Copper: Buy Bishop
Draw: Chapel, 4x Copper
Turn 5: Chapel 4x Copper
Draw: Bishop, Contraband, 2x Copper; Chapel
Turn 6: Bishop the Chapel, Buy Silver
Draw: Bishop, Contraband, 2x Copper; Silver
Turn 7: Bishop a Copper, buy Silver
Draw: Bishop, Contraband, Copper, 2x Silver
Turn 8: Bishop a Copper, buy Province
Draw: Bishop, Contraband, 2x Silver, Province


As for multiplayer...

I have a feeling it can be done by the end of your second turn! If you assume an unlimited number of opponents, you should be able to start your second turn with a crazy hand that has just about anything in it, thanks to combinations of Noble Brigand and Governor type stuff. In fact, with Ambassador and Masquerade,  I wouldn't be surprised at all if you could START turn 2 with Bishop, Gold, Silver, Silver, Province.

Here's a puzzle where with multiplayer, you can buy all 12 Provinces on your second turn: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=962.0. I think that that concept could be modified to give you exactly what you need to create the golden deck on that turn.


Another 8 turn, arg:

Turn 1: Buy Chapel
Turn 2: Buy Ironworks
Turn 3: Chapel 3x Estate Copper
Deck (Discard) = IW, 6x Copper (Chapel)
Draw IW, 4x Copper
Turn 4: IW for Silver, Buy Silver
Deck (Discard) = 2x Copper (Chapel, IW, 2x Silver)
Draw 2x Copper, 2x Silver, IW
Turn 5: IW for Bishop, buy Gold
Deck (Discard) = 4x Copper, Chapel (IW, Bishop, 2x Silver, Gold)
Draw: Chapel, 4x Copper
Turn 6: Chapel 4x Copper
Draw: IW, Bishop, Gold, 2x Silver
Turn 7: Bishop IW, Buy Province
Turn 8: Bishop Chapel, buy nothing

9030
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« on: February 01, 2012, 03:49:58 pm »
Arms Dealer is probably insanely powerful in sets with any +buy, and better than a Familiar without. Granted, there's no +card, but it stacks with itself. If you get 2 of them in play, then that's 3 Curses you give out. If you get 3 of them in play, that's 6 Curses. 4 of them is 10 Curses.

9031
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« on: February 01, 2012, 03:38:55 pm »
First Strike doesn't quite work... a few different people have tried something like this, and it's always the same problem... Treasure cards don't have a "face value." What about Bank, Philosopher's Stone, and Copper with Coppersmith in play?

I want it to work like the "immediate buy" in Black Market.

In that case you can probably just give Black Market type wording... "Buy one card in the Supply. Play it immediately." Just checked that the Black Market card itself doesn't mention that you can play your treasures first. I guess that's just in the FAQ; it could be the same for First Strike.

9032
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« on: February 01, 2012, 03:22:04 pm »
First Strike doesn't quite work... a few different people have tried something like this, and it's always the same problem... Treasure cards don't have a "face value." What about Bank, Philosopher's Stone, and Copper with Coppersmith in play?

9033
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Idea stolen from General Discussion
« on: February 01, 2012, 12:26:44 pm »
Well I was actually just about to post this same thread in the puzzle forum. :P

Here, Geronomo mentions emptying the ENTIRE supply in 10 turns:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1169.0.

My guess is that a Kingdom that's capable of doing that should be able to beat any other Kingdom... it can be tweaked; of course. Also, perhaps add in Lighthouse to protect from attacks.

9034
What I like most about Magic from what I understand about it are the rock-paper-scissors mind games.
If you know in advance what your opponents deck will be like, I think you can create a decent counter to it.

This brings me to the question: Would any kingdom be so incredibly dominant that there is simply no counter to it?
And what are the rules about 3-piling?

I theorize the answer is no.  I played a game with a friend on iso where I would have 5 piles for me, and he would have five piles for him.  We took turns drafting cards for our minikingdom, I picked rather poorly and he ended up with King's Court, Chapel, Bridge, Laboratory, and Possession.  (he didn't buy possession, he just wanted me to not have it).

After I lost the first game he said he didn't think anything I could possibly do could beat him.  It took me several tries, but I eventually came up with a five card set that his handily.

Of course, a ten card kingdom is larger.  Could be different.

What did you use? Based on threads where people have solitaired there way to buying the ENTIRE supply in like 12 turns, I would think that there would be a Kingdom that simply cannot be beaten... I think we need a puzzle thread for this.

*Edit* Ninja'd; thread in variants forum.

9035
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The Most Thematic Turn
« on: February 01, 2012, 09:49:47 am »
I love the concept. A couple nitpicks though... you can't really tell which Durations were played last turn. You do say "yesterday" at the start, but the entire story is told in past tense. After the Merchant Ship and Fishing Village part, you could add "then this morning I..." and that would imply a new turn.

Also, why is the Haven free? You only played 1 Bridge. You could always have crossed a couple of Bridges, though.

Also, I can't imagine that buying Haven was a smart play. You had at least 4 money and everything was reduced by 1. :P

9036
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: SMALL money
« on: February 01, 2012, 09:45:18 am »
If you change the setup to allow treasure cards that you don't play, then your vault/SC plays can be worth a lot more with 60ish coppers and a counting house.

That's exactly why I didn't. Treasure can be theoretically limitless, and I didn't want it to change from a "most money" puzzle to a "largest hand size" puzzle.

9037
Dominion General Discussion / Power levels of sets; AKA Dominion: The CCG
« on: January 31, 2012, 05:18:47 pm »
So someone said in another thread that "4 Provinces in 14 turns isn't as fast as it once was." This got me thinking...

Games like Magic sometimes suffer from "power creep," where to keep new cards interesting, they have to make new cards more powerful (with obvious exceptions like Black Lotus). But whereas a 6/6 creature may have been once considered huge, today that might not be so impressive.

Anyway, Dominion balances things much better than that. No card is strictly better than any other card (not even Noble Brigand ;)). But, some cards are still considered more powerful than others. And along the same lines, I would guess that this means that some sets are more powerful than others. So, if Dominion were a CCG, where you had to buy your own sets with which to build your own decks, which sets would you get first because they have the more powerful cards?

Another way to phrase it; say you were playing something along the lines of each player has their own personal Kingdom they buy cards from; a Kingdom that's composed of 10 random cards from the set that they brought with them. Which set to you bring to the match?

My first instinct would be to say that Prosperity is the most powerful. Simply because it often gets much higher scores than the other sets; and much more money to spend per turn. But on the other hand, the base set has Chapel.

9038
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Silver vs Peddler* in a BM Deck
« on: January 31, 2012, 04:20:40 pm »
One thing you are forgetting: terminal draw. If you have a Smithy in your deck; drawing a Peddler with it is with $0, while drawing a Silver is worth $2.

9039
Rules Questions / Re: Trader with Torturer
« on: January 31, 2012, 03:38:28 pm »
But I maintain that "gain X, putting it in hand" means gain to discard, then move to hand. I'm not sure it ever really matters. But I feel like the definition of "gain" is move something from supply to discard, otherwise it's too vague.

Just happened upon this... Donald specifically contradicted this just recently at BGG:

Quote from: donaldx
Quote from: PunchBall
Reading through this thread and just want to clarify something that was perhaps not sufficiently clarified: Mine, Sea Hag and Develop do indeed gain you cards straight to the top of your deck; they don't go to discard first. There are other cards like this too: Bureaucrat, Torturer, Trading Post, Treasure Map, Explorer, Bag of Gold, Tournament, Fool's Gold, Nomad Camp, Ill-Gotten Gains (the Copper). I think that's an exclusive list.

Watchtower and Royal Seal, on the other hand, trigger when you gain a card, moving it from wherever it was gained to, and placing it either on the top of your deck or in Trash.
I haven't checked if that's an exhaustive list, but yes, the gained cards for Bureaucrat etc. don't "visit" the discard pile. This is unlike Thief, where the trashed cards do visit the trash. Watchtower and Royal Seal move a card after it's already gained, so it's already sitting wherever it went before it gets moved.

9040
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Top 10 Card Artwork
« on: January 31, 2012, 10:48:28 am »
Man, I opened my new set of Hinterlands the other day and couldn't think anything but "huh?? This isn't the right art for these cards! Scheme doesn't even have Vizzini on it!"

In other words, thanks to Isotropic, I have no clue what the artwork on the cards is.

9041
Dominion Articles / Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« on: January 31, 2012, 10:10:20 am »
Just don't do what I did and play your loan on your TM turn

Why not? You have four golds on the deck. You need three to be guaranteed a province; so loan discarding one is okay, maybe even good because it helps you cycle back to the gold faster.
Agreed. In a colony game, don't; in a province game,do.

Even in a Colony game, it would be a smart move, if you plan on buying Platinum.

9042
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan expansion -- Dominion: Anime
« on: January 30, 2012, 12:06:31 pm »
I think you should change Student Council... Margrave doesn't just make it bland, it is strictly better than it.
No, it's not strictly better. 3 cards out of 6 has a non-trivial chance of being better than 5 out of 5. Okay, not a big chance, but not a trivial one. Plus this isn't an attack, so opponents can't benefit off of reactions (basically horse traders).

Interesting... I guess you're right. I certainly have had times that an opponent's Margrave has turned a crappy turn into a good one. Though on the same note, a Ghost Ship can help your opponent as well, and yet a $5 that does nothing but +2 cards would be considered worse than Ghost Ship!
Oh I agree. And Student Council is worse than Margrave, no question. Like, most of the time, the attack is a good, not a bad. Same with the Ghost ship thing. It's just, not ALWAYS.

Makes me ask... is there any attack that is ALWAYS bad for your opponent? I don't think so... and assume that we aren't counting benefit from Horse Traders or Secret Chamber either.

Cursers can give your opponent more points from either Gardens or Fairgrounds.
Discard attacks can make a hand better if it has Menagerie or any "draw up to" cards. (Or Tunnel).
Rabble & Fortune Teller can discard Coppers and cycle faster.
Minion can replace 5 crappy cards with 4 good ones.
Saboteur can give your opponents more points in the late-game.
Swindler can hit a Curse when the Curse pile is empty.
With deck-inspection you can have them discard a card that they didn't need anyway, or have them keep a card that ends up being useful.
Bureaucrat... probably actually the attack LEAST likely to help your opponent! But it can still cause a Province to be paired with a Tournament that otherwise wouldn't, or put a Nobels or Tunnel on top, where it happens to work much better in your next hand than your current one.

9043
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan expansion -- Dominion: Anime
« on: January 30, 2012, 11:41:44 am »
I think you should change Student Council... Margrave doesn't just make it bland, it is strictly better than it.
No, it's not strictly better. 3 cards out of 6 has a non-trivial chance of being better than 5 out of 5. Okay, not a big chance, but not a trivial one. Plus this isn't an attack, so opponents can't benefit off of reactions (basically horse traders).

Interesting... I guess you're right. I certainly have had times that an opponent's Margrave has turned a crappy turn into a good one. Though on the same note, a Ghost Ship can help your opponent as well, and yet a $5 that does nothing but +2 cards would be considered worse than Ghost Ship!

9044
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan expansion -- Dominion: Anime
« on: January 30, 2012, 11:24:11 am »
I think you should change Student Council... Margrave doesn't just make it bland, it is strictly better than it.

9045
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan expansion -- Dominion: Anime
« on: January 30, 2012, 10:55:42 am »
To make AT field completely impenetrable, you might want to even add "when you gain a Curse, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, trash the Curse." This will prevent IGG from hurting you as well. And I should know a thing or two about AT fields. ;)

9046
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: January 30, 2012, 10:45:19 am »
Fun game I just had on Iso...

 — Piemaster's turn 3 —
   Piemaster plays 4 Coppers.
   Piemaster buys a Sea Hag.
   (Piemaster draws: a Market, 2 Coppers, a Moat, and an Estate.)

9:17 Shroomchild: You going to do that sea hag bullshit?
9:17 Piemaster: What, you mean 'playing Seahag'?
9:18 Shroomchild: Yeah
9:18 Piemaster: No, I brought it because of the pretty picture
9:18 Shroomchild: Get ready scumfuck

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/25/game-20120125-012102-5533242c.html

The guy bought a Village on turn 1 and on turn 3. His opponent playing Sea Hag is the least of his Dominion worries...

9047
General Discussion / Finally
« on: January 28, 2012, 10:54:46 pm »
So it's a month late, but I got Hinterlands as a late Christmas gift! Have them all now. ;D

9048
Rules Questions / Re: Duration cards rules
« on: January 27, 2012, 04:33:19 pm »
Thanks a bunch for the explanations!

Quote
At the time Alchemy had a card that was like, "play a card from your hand, adding 2 to numbers in its text."
Ha, just a couple days ago I was trying to think if a card could work that would say something like "while this is in play, add 1 to all numbers on action cards you play." :)

9049
If you could set up KC-KC-Feast-Feast-Feast in Duke-Duchy without your opponent realizing what you're up to, I imagine that would be pretty satisfying. I did something similar in a Gardens game once.

I managed to KC a Feast for 3 Duchies the other day. Not a Duke game, though.

9050

I still think you are all wrong. I always thought the opposite about this card : easy to execute, hard to block.
You need 6 duchies and 5 dukes so that they are worth as much as eight provinces. Not much, it's only three dead cards more, for the total cost of 55$ (64$ for provinces).
And man, it's so easy to get 5$ each turns ! a simple silver helps a lot. Obviously, a card like Horse traders or feast is also good… but even without…
And, if the province player can grab some duchies/dukes, the duke player also, can easily take one or two provinces. But actually, the duchy or duke doesn't really help the province player.

Also, the duke does not need 3-pile ending, unlike gardens or silk road. Because, as I said, it's easy to get more than 48 point : the maximum for provinces.

You tend to compare the Duke to gardens. it has nothing to do.

I completely agree! Last month ehunt gave me some great advice on learning how to beat a Duchies strategy... he said to try Duchies myself, and learn from the times that my opponents beat me. Well, I started doing that... and it didn't quite work as planned, because I found myself winning basically every time I went Duke/Duchy!

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