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Messages - GendoIkari

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8576
I think there are still 2 options - 1 shelter per person (up to 6) with a 12-card pile, or 3 copies per person (up to 6) with no supply pile.

It makes so much more sense to me that there is no Supply pile. The fact that there are 50 Ruins basically tells us that it supports 6 player; and the only thing we know about Shelters is that "they replace starting Estates." That sounds like a pretty strong implication that they would replace all 3... no need for an extra supply pile.

8577
Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: So.. many.. piles..
« on: August 09, 2012, 06:12:28 pm »
A heaven for fairgrounds (and there are 4 ruins to further sweeten the deal)!

There are 5 ruins

When I read that, I couldn't help but think of this:

8578
the fact that rats costs 4 makes me think that they discovered that rats/rats was too strong an opening... but I have a hard time seeing how that would be a good opening.

Man I'm an idiot... I've realized now that Rats cost $4 instead of $3 because they are a much better card at $4! If they were $3, you would want them a lot less often than you will want them at $4 (because of TFB).

8579
Ok, someone out there is going to know this off the top of their head, probably:

How many TFB cards are there (anything that would make you consider buying Rats)?
vs
How many Discarding cards are there (anything that would make you consider buying Tunnel)?

Basically, what I want to know is, if we assume that Rats is only good for the TFB thing, will it be a completely dead Kingdom card more or less often than Tunnel? (Discounting the 2VP instead of 1VP for an Estate in the end-game).

Well, we still don't have a consensus on how often Tunnel is worth it, do we? Some people still insist it's worth getting almost all the time, while others (like me) think it's probably worth it less than 30% of the time. I imagine Rats can easily exceed the 30% number. We also still don't know how many TfBs there are going to be among the 26 yet-to-be-revealed Dark Ages cards...
Well sure, but what I meant wasn't so much how often is it a good idea to buy, but rather how often is it not just a completely dead card? Spy / Tunnel is probably a really crappy combo, but I would still count that as a time that Tunnel is a playable card. If there is nothing on the board that has potential to discard, then buying a Tunnel is like buying an Estate. Same with Rats. Rats/Forge may or may not be a good combo, but at least if Forge is on the board, Rats is technically an option.

Well if you consider Spy/Tunnel playable, Rats is always "playable", just like Scout/Estate....

I don't know; in a deck without any TFB, buying a rats really seems exactly like buying an Estate. Playing it adds 0 value to your deck, and quite often you would rather just hold in it your hand than play it.

8580
Ok, someone out there is going to know this off the top of their head, probably:

How many TFB cards are there (anything that would make you consider buying Rats)?
vs
How many Discarding cards are there (anything that would make you consider buying Tunnel)?

Basically, what I want to know is, if we assume that Rats is only good for the TFB thing, will it be a completely dead Kingdom card more or less often than Tunnel? (Discounting the 2VP instead of 1VP for an Estate in the end-game).

Well, we still don't have a consensus on how often Tunnel is worth it, do we? Some people still insist it's worth getting almost all the time, while others (like me) think it's probably worth it less than 30% of the time. I imagine Rats can easily exceed the 30% number. We also still don't know how many TfBs there are going to be among the 26 yet-to-be-revealed Dark Ages cards...
Well sure, but what I meant wasn't so much how often is it a good idea to buy, but rather how often is it not just a completely dead card? Spy / Tunnel is probably a really crappy combo, but I would still count that as a time that Tunnel is a playable card. If there is nothing on the board that has potential to discard, then buying a Tunnel is like buying an Estate. Same with Rats. Rats/Forge may or may not be a good combo, but at least if Forge is on the board, Rats is technically an option.

8581
Scout may finally take its rightful place as the top $4 card

+1 for the post as a whole, but especially this.

The very last card previewed for Guilds (after we have seen every Dominion card ever to exist except just this last one) is going to be:

Scoutmaster
$0 - Action
Reveal your hand. If you reveal a Scout, gain all remaining Victory Cards.

Setup: If Scout is not in the Kingdom, add it to the Kingdom.

8582
Nah, you guys are missing the beauty of rats.  Rats are not really trashers -- every card that's trashed is replaced with a rat.  But rats do temporarily turn all your trash cards into cantrips, at least until you start to run low on trash targets.  But even if it's only for a couple of shuffles, having cantrips instead of dead cards could be exactly the help you need to get to your real trasher.  And, as a bonus, when you do trash the rats, you get some cards, though you'll probably be drawing dead since most trashers are terminals.

The point is, you obviously need an actual trasher in conjunction with rats, but rats grease the wheels for you: they cycle your deck, putting that trasher in your hand more often.  I think this will allow you to clear garbage from your deck much faster than normal. 

It's not really a cantrip either, because when you play it, you have to trash something. So it decreases your hand size while not decreasing your deck size (though I guess it makes it move faster since the Rats cycle a little). This actually seems pretty horrible on its own. It seems like the point of Rats is to turn all your cheap cards into Rats so you get more out of your other TfB cards. It's just fuel generation. Bishoping a Copper gets +$1 +1 VP. Bishoping a Rats gets you +$1 +3 VP +1 Card. Copper remodels into at best a $2 card, but Rats goes up to $6, while drawing a card. It seems like the plan should be:
1. Buy Rats and TfB card
2. Turn everything into Rats
3. Trash the Rats for good stuff

It's not immediately obvious how fast this is, but since Rats are non-terminal, you can play a lot per turn once you get going, so it's probably good. I'm not sure Apprentice is the best combo, since you have to actually have something you want to draw, and it's going to be hard to buy that without money, since your Rats eat everything. Probably Upgrading or Remodeling cards are going to be the better combos.

Ok, someone out there is going to know this off the top of their head, probably:

How many TFB cards are there (anything that would make you consider buying Rats)?
vs
How many Discarding cards are there (anything that would make you consider buying Tunnel)?

Basically, what I want to know is, if we assume that Rats is only good for the TFB thing, will it be a completely dead Kingdom card more or less often than Tunnel? (Discounting the 2VP instead of 1VP for an Estate in the end-game).

8583
And they turn upgrade into essentially +2 Cards +1 Action. Gain a card costing $5. That's pretty cool.

Actually Upgrade becomes +1 Card +1 Action Gain a card costing $5. After you play Upgrade, draw a card for it, trash a Rats from hand, and draw a card for that, you are left with 5 cards in hand, not 6.

8585
Rats is stronger at $4 than it would be at $2. It's main strength will be turning your Coppers, Estates, and Curses into Rats, and then using trash-for-benefit cards to trash the Rats. Since Rats cost more than Coppers and Estates, the benefit will be greater (plus you get +1 Card).

Indeed, it's possible that Rats will be similar to Tunnel, in that when there's no TFB card, you just completely ignore it (or get 1 or 2 at the end to try and clear out a couple curses for the extra VP). But I really hope that new combos are discovered where it just turns out to be an awesome buy at least a fair amount of the time.

8586
I'm disappointed that none of these cards were described as "the ____ you always knew I'd make." I found those to be quite funny for the last 3 days.

"Rats is the self-replicating, deck-eating, insane action card you always knew I'd make."

8587
I mean, all Rats scenarios start like a good idea and seem to be just a wild dream. I mean, your just replacing things with Rats, and that's the main problem.

Next Card Preview:
Plague
$6
Reveal your hand, cards in play, deck and discard pile. If all cards are named either Rats or Plague, you win the game.
----
Setup: Add Rats to the supply.

Probably far too easy to pull off...

8588
but on each play of rats, you are just replacing a card with a rats (rather than thinning), and gee, I don't know how good a trade that is.

This is the big thing for me... Rats don't really "trash" a card... they just replace a card with a Rats. I too am quite confused as to how Rats is a good card; but I'm also willing to bet that there's a whole bunch of combos out there that we haven't thought of yet (or combos with cards we haven't seen yet) that will make Rats pretty awesome.

8589
Rats with gardens is lovely, btw..

Rats with gardens is a terrible nombo! You don't gain an extra card from playing rats; unless every card in your hand is a rats.

8590
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: August 09, 2012, 09:51:26 am »

8591
Rules question:  The first thing on Rats is +1card, +1 action.  So I do that first before gaining another Rats, yes?  So if the card I draw is my Watchtower, I can then reveal the Watchtower to trash the incoming Rats.  Is that correct?

I'd say yes. Meaning that you can draw another card cause you just trashed a rats, right?

Yes and yes. Thus why Rats + Watchtower is awesome.

*Ninja'd by Donald X; with identical wording!*

8592
also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.
Are we sure about this interpretation?

I don't see a whole lot of room for question. Look at Feast.

*NINJA'D*

8593
also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.

KC-KC-Council Room-Pillage-Militia. Leave opponent with 3rd--5th best of 8 cards. And gain 6 one-shot golds.

4th-6th best, actually!

8594
Rats should be called Relentless Rats.

And they should give +x cards, +x actions, where x is the number of Relentless Rats you have played this turn.

8595
Ehm, when you play Spoils you have to return it to the supply pile. So I'll play a spoils and 4 coppers, but before buying anything I have to return the Spoils. So that seems to leave me with 4 money to buy with.

Naturally this isn't the correct interpretation, but it seems the obvious one from the wording. Why not say "When you discard this in clean-up phase"? To avoid combo with herbalist and bank?


No, once you play a treasure it gives you money, doesn't matter if it is picked up later.

Like, if you buy mandarin and your treasures goes back on deck, you still have all the money it provided if you have more buys.


Well, yeah if you read my entire post you see I agree with you. My point was mainly that it is a bit confusing (especially to noobs) having to remember how many spoils you have played, and it seems more clean to just return in discard phase. Hence the question, is it that important to avoid combo with herbalist and bank? (And potenially other cards I don't think of now).

no different than remembering how many mining villages you trashed, or how many pawns you played for +$1.

8596
also, pillage doesn't have "if you do". so you can throne room it! governor for cards, throne room pillage, each opponent discards there best 2 of 6 cards, you get 4 spoils. kc option too, of course.

8597
rats + watchtower is awesome!!

8598
the fact that rats costs 4 makes me think that they discovered that rats/rats was too strong an opening... but I have a hard time seeing how that would be a good opening.

8599
If there are 18 shelters, then that's 1 each for a 6 player game (assuming that you want to leave 12 for the normal pile).

Also, I'm thinking Rats is going to be a trap card without another trasher present, but that it will be useful with another trasher.

pretty sure there won't be a pile of 12. they replace starting estates, that's it.

8600
Ok, just yesterday in my "rules" thread, someone pointed out that we've never seen a targeted discard. I think that Donald reads through our posts talking about what cards would never happen, and then makes up new cards on the spot to prove us wrong.

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