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Messages - GendoIkari

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7451
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Exception to the rule: keeping bad cards
« on: April 29, 2013, 11:12:04 pm »
You had two more Ironmongers (or some other cantrips) in your hand and you want to ensure that you can trigger your Menagerie?

Bigger hint I suppose.. When I say you don't want the card in hand, I mean you really don't want it in hand....

7452
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Exception to the rule: keeping bad cards
« on: April 29, 2013, 11:06:35 pm »
Not Posession.. I suppose that's the answer to just about every "exception to the rule" puzzle though. No trashing involved at all, Mystic would be disqualified as wanting the card in hand (it would generally be better to take a random guess at maybe drawing a card than to definitely draw a useless card).

Jimmmmm's on the right track...

7453
Puzzles and Challenges / Exception to the rule: keeping bad cards
« on: April 29, 2013, 10:52:35 pm »
There's quite possible multiple answers for this, but this just happened in a real game, and it was quite interesting:

After playing Ironmonger, I chose to keep a Copper on top of my deck instead of discarding it. Why?

Notes: Ironmonger could have just as easily been Spy. Though it was a Copper in my game, it could have been a Curse/Estate/Ruins/Shelter... in other words, the answer has nothing to do with wanting a Copper in your hand.

Also, the answer is not as simple as "you want to draw it so you can trash it (Upgrade)".

7454
Game Reports / Painful game
« on: April 29, 2013, 10:48:51 pm »
Just finished this game IRL against my wife.

$3
Steward
Urchin
$4
Scavenger
Wandering Minstrel
$5
Band of Misfits
Count
Graverobber
Knights
Pillage
$6
Goons

I opened Silver/Urchin, she opened Steward/Wandering Minstrel. I got a second Urchin and Wandering Minstrel quickly; WM helps a LOT with connecting 2 Urchins, so I got Mercenary early. She went a bit for Knights (only picked up 2 total). It was enough to slow me down. I was picking up Goons and BoMs, but she was trashing about 2 cards every 2 turns out of my deck.

I ended up building a drawing engine out of WM, Steward, and BoM; enough to draw my deck every turn. But with VERY little buying power, especially since I was losing Goons and BoMs to her Knights. Eventually it was at an interesting point where it was obvious I'd won (about 50 VP tokens to none), but I also had basically no way of ending the game... there weren't 3 piles I could take down in less than several turns later, and going for Provinces seemed hopeless. I eventually bought some Graverobbers, which allowed me to drain more piles quickly, though I also used them a bit to get some of my trashed Goons back. Eventually she conceded when I probably had a couple turns left.

7455
Yeah, having a conversation using Translate is definitely interesting. It's also a testament to the algorithm that we were able to get that far. I'm disappointed that no one admitted that his hovercraft is full of eels.

Though, I have to wonder what he's getting through Translate with our slang. And if he doesn't watch Monty Python, then he surely thinks the translation didn't work for "hovercraft full of eels."

And for those who haven't seen it: http://translationparty.com/.

"Chapel is one of the strongest cards in Dominion, relative to its cost." -> "Chapel is the strongest rule and card costs."

7456
This is fun. From now on, I think all forum threads need to be had with text that was translated through Google translate.

(To Bodybuilder, I sincerely don't mean any offense! :))

7457
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is your favorite village?
« on: April 26, 2013, 04:41:37 pm »
Steed is spectacular when it's the only Village, but still good otherwise as well - you can use it for +$2/+2 Cards in those circumstances, which is very nice.  I don't think I've ever actually used the Silver shuffle.

"The Silver Shuffle" needs to be a dance.

7458
Another idea could be to give each player 6 Trinkets and one Copper.  This would eliminate any problems that arise from different players having different Trinkets.  Oh, and if you did this, Locket would definitely need to be only 1VP.

I was thinking of this, but then you get an issue that a lot of cards caring about different names start to become crazy. Tribute is now very strong. Harvest gives you $3 almost guaranteed, and $4 usually. Menagerie is ridiculously overpowered (especially with shelters!). Hunting Party is now probably worse than Lab (skipping over useful cards like silvers to find your trinkets). Really the big issue there I think is Menagerie.

Forager is an issue too.  Maybe Fairgrounds.

Yeah, I wasn't aiming for comprehensiveness but this is true. Those are likely bigger issues in fact. A possible answer is to call all the cards 'Trinket' and have something else not in the name that tells you what it is. But then you need to do something about Bell (or Tribute gets confused)

Just call them Trinket and forget the secondary name.  They can still have different effects and artwork, even different types.  As long as they all share the same name, it won't mess with cards like Harvest and Menagerie.

I don't like that at all... 2 cards with the same name but different effects? Though I can't think of anything in the game that it actually breaks, it just seems to mess with the entire concept of what the name of a card means, in any card game.

7459
Dominion Articles / Re: Altar
« on: April 26, 2013, 09:38:44 am »
Altar/Princess is just brutal; with a good engine, you may want to take Princess as your first prize in an Altar game.

Altar/Border Village is insanely good as you can get both the village and the draw in the same go - leaving you to buy Silver or whatever with your remaining coin.

Altar/Count is crazy good - Altar can run out of stuff to trash in ultra-thin decks, but Count gives you free coppers and makes for early 6 coin shots. Big trashing when the opportunity presents itself can make Altar show up all the time.

Some of the on-trash cards can be really strong - Squire is +action and can often be trashed for a big +cards attack (e.g. Rabble, Torturer, Minion), Market Square can let you stock up Gold really quickly and takes up no space when it doesn't collide, and Hunting Grounds is hugely reliable with a potential bonus duchy at end game.

Fairgrounds is also pretty nice for Altar. You often end up with a nice hodgepodge engine so you can play Altar often and you can stock up on unique cards or Fairgrounds at the price of copper.

Throne Room, Kc, and Procession can all make Altar games rather touchy. You can gain a LOT of cards quickly with Altar (even on an empty hand) and make 3-pile threats seemingly out of nowhere (e.g. Tr can gain 2 Altars this turn, gives you a potential gain of SIX , and if the other guy bought an Altar let's you pile a 6 coin stack with only one turn of "warning" and not touching your cash/buys). If your opponent is good at tracking 3-pile threats, you can raise a credible threat quite quickly and force them to green now or risk never.

Knights seem to work decently as Altar counters - Altar tends to thin your deck and fill it with stuff in the 5-6 price range. Knights can trash it right back out and may offer a better bonus than "trash one card".  Of course an Altar player can swap over to gaining Knights to trash your Knights ... but then they had to sacrifice something "better" and may have problems with action conflicts.

I have the feeling that your altars can somehow gain cards costing up to 6.  :o Because I don't see any synergy between Altar and Border village. Also, princess + altar isn't that strong, as GendoIkari mentions.

Indeed, if he thought that they could gain cards costing up to 6; then the Princess makes sense. Though you still need a Village to play both of those on 1 turn.

Just thought of this though... KC, KC, Bridge, Altar, Altar. Gain 6 Provinces; buy a Duchy.

First off... you'd have to trash the second Altar to the first one so you'd only gain 3 provinces and buy a duchy.  Second off... those altars would be much better off as bridges....

Don't know what I was thinking. Though had thought about the fact that more Bridges would be better than Altars there.

7460
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What your strategy be on this board?
« on: April 25, 2013, 10:46:54 pm »
Hm. Interesting. Here are the viable options I see.


Option 1 is Courtyard-BM. Always an option.

Option 2 is a Laboratory engine with KC and outpost. Load up on laboratories, add in a market square for a +buy, end the turn with outpost so you can have a second turn. Use KC to supercharge it so you can draw everything well, and possibly add in a single courtyard to play as your last action of the non-outpost turn to guarantee that your outpost turn starts up with a lab in hand. If you have a spare lab

Things going for the engine: KC, Outpost, and alt-VP with Gardens. Things going against the engine - the +buy is out of the way, since there's no trashing for the Market Square to be activated reliably and no villages to use the CR for draw reliably (until you're already KCing labs). No villages besides KC. No attacks to slow the game down.


Options that are technically there but not really good IMO:
1) Market Square/Gardens and Market Square/Counting House both look like combos but I think would be fairly mediocre compared to BM-courtyard.
2) Engine with terminal draw doesn't really work because the only village is KC, I don't think you can get enough KCs and cantrips to reliably start a turn with KC-cantrip-terminal draw or KC-kc-terminal draw on an outpost turn. Especially with no trashing and no source of money on actions.

So, BM-courtyard or KC-lab-outpost- engine... tough choice. I'm having a hard time envisioning how long the engine would take to come together. The components it needs are probably about 6-8 labs, 1 outpost, 3-5 kcs, a market square, 3-4 extra treasures, and it would probably end with 3 provinces/6-7 duchies/gardens... Idunno, counting like that it seems like the engine would be just a tad too slow to pick everything up, and once it started greening it would sputter on its outpost turns. And you can't really make it a megaturn because there's no virtual coin to KC.

So I would lean courtyard-BM. Get labs on $5 hands, especially if your opponent is going engine too few labs might mess them up.

Is Courtyard BM better than Council Room BM?

7461
Dominion Articles / Re: Altar
« on: April 25, 2013, 10:44:06 pm »
Altar/Princess is just brutal; with a good engine, you may want to take Princess as your first prize in an Altar game.

Altar/Border Village is insanely good as you can get both the village and the draw in the same go - leaving you to buy Silver or whatever with your remaining coin.

Altar/Count is crazy good - Altar can run out of stuff to trash in ultra-thin decks, but Count gives you free coppers and makes for early 6 coin shots. Big trashing when the opportunity presents itself can make Altar show up all the time.

Some of the on-trash cards can be really strong - Squire is +action and can often be trashed for a big +cards attack (e.g. Rabble, Torturer, Minion), Market Square can let you stock up Gold really quickly and takes up no space when it doesn't collide, and Hunting Grounds is hugely reliable with a potential bonus duchy at end game.

Fairgrounds is also pretty nice for Altar. You often end up with a nice hodgepodge engine so you can play Altar often and you can stock up on unique cards or Fairgrounds at the price of copper.

Throne Room, Kc, and Procession can all make Altar games rather touchy. You can gain a LOT of cards quickly with Altar (even on an empty hand) and make 3-pile threats seemingly out of nowhere (e.g. Tr can gain 2 Altars this turn, gives you a potential gain of SIX , and if the other guy bought an Altar let's you pile a 6 coin stack with only one turn of "warning" and not touching your cash/buys). If your opponent is good at tracking 3-pile threats, you can raise a credible threat quite quickly and force them to green now or risk never.

Knights seem to work decently as Altar counters - Altar tends to thin your deck and fill it with stuff in the 5-6 price range. Knights can trash it right back out and may offer a better bonus than "trash one card".  Of course an Altar player can swap over to gaining Knights to trash your Knights ... but then they had to sacrifice something "better" and may have problems with action conflicts.

I have the feeling that your altars can somehow gain cards costing up to 6.  :o Because I don't see any synergy between Altar and Border village. Also, princess + altar isn't that strong, as GendoIkari mentions.

Indeed, if he thought that they could gain cards costing up to 6; then the Princess makes sense. Though you still need a Village to play both of those on 1 turn.

Just thought of this though... KC, KC, Bridge, Altar, Altar. Gain 6 Provinces; buy a Duchy.

7462
Goko Dominion Online / How would automatch work anyway?
« on: April 25, 2013, 10:40:06 pm »
So lots of people seem to be annoyed at the whole system of hosting vs joining. Goko has been saying for a while now that automatch is a top priority for them (I think). But, given the way Goko makes their money off of people buying sets... how in the world would automatch even work anyway? Possibilities:

1. People can only be matched with those who own the same sets as them.
Bad idea. There are currently 128 different possibilities of set ownership, NOT counting Promos. Soon to be 256 when Guilds is released. That would split the possible fan base into 128 different groups; it would be way too hard to find a match if you owned all the sets except Hinterlands.

2. People can be matched with anyone. Which cards are chosen for the Kingdom come from a mix of the sets owned by both players.
Slightly better, though not great. Currently the incentive to actually buy sets is already strange, awkward, and weak. Why should I buy sets? So that I can become a hoster instead of a joiner I guess. With this system in place, it would be even weaker, I would think. I should buy sets so that in case I get automatched against someone who didn't buy sets, I can still play with the cards.

3. Combination of the 2: If you own base only; you can only play against those who own base only. If you own all; you can only play against those who own all. The other 126 groups of people can all play each other.
Great for former Iso players (competitive, experienced, willing to spend money on online Dominion if it works well). They get what they want, I would think. But now the base players have no option to check out the non-base cards, which could either hurt or help Goko sales. And those other 126 groups are still in an awkward position...

Or perhaps there's something I'm just missing... does anyone know how they plan to do this, while keeping their "you can buy the sets" monetization plan?

7463
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is your favorite village?
« on: April 25, 2013, 03:14:51 pm »
Border Village or Worker's Village, followed by Fishing Village.

7464
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Pro Games with Base Only
« on: April 25, 2013, 02:04:49 pm »
The Base pro games are annoying, but I fixed that by buying all the cards.  That has the following consequence: that most of the games I play, I host.  So there's a risk that Goko users split into Hosters and Joiners, and that the two groups never get to play with each other.  This is particularly sad because Hosters are probably as a rule the better players, and it's hard enough getting a decent game already.

So all Dominion players are broken into 2 groups of people; the hosters and the joiners. And ironically, this would be perfect; if hosters mainly played other hosters and joiners mainly played other joiners... because they're more likely to be similar types of players. But instead, it's forced that a hoster can only play a joiner; the exact opposite of ideal.

7465
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Pro Games with Base Only
« on: April 25, 2013, 01:59:03 pm »
But what about people who own all the sets, and then the random kingdom selection chooses cards from only base? (Quick, someone calculate the odds!)

Seriously though, I agree with you, though I just end up suffering through those games. Of course, as I've gone into detail before, the solution is to get rid of the stupid idea of "hosting vs joining" games. I also like the solution of automatically listing what sets are owned by any player who hosts a game.

7466
Dominion Articles / Re: Altar
« on: April 25, 2013, 08:46:49 am »
Why Altar / Princess? Unless there's KC on the board, I don't see how that's great. If you're using Altar to pick up 6's, then Bridge or Highway would do just as well (especially Highway since it's non-terminal).

7467
Rules Questions / Re: Procession-->BoM as Fortress
« on: April 24, 2013, 09:53:36 pm »
Because when a card gets covered up in your deck or discard pile, you might literally lose track of where it is. When you put a card in your hand you don't lose track of it, because you're looking at it the whole time.

I think that's a fair answer. It's worth noting though that Davio has seemingly brought up another accountability issue I hadn't heard about before, though. You can gain a card (like Curse from Torturer, or Gold from Mine) into hand, THEN reveal a Watchtower from your hand and say you want to top-deck that card. Are you required to reveal the card before you top-deck it in order to prove that you are top-decking the right one?

Of course, this is only a theoretical question; in practice you simply reveal the Watchtower upon "would gain", and then gain it directly to your deck.

7468
Dominion Articles / Re: Altar
« on: April 24, 2013, 04:41:02 pm »
After playing a bunch of Altar games, one of the few issues I noticed is whether there are multiple strong, mutually compatible $5s on the board.

* If there are not strong $5s, Gold is usually superior. Gold will pay off in the next shuffle; you don't benefit from Altar's gain until the shuffle after. That's a long time to wait for a mediocre $5, and the Gold is more useful for gaining $4s.
* If there's only one strong $5, and you would prefer it to Gold, you'll acquire it a shuffle faster by just buying the $5 rather than Altar.
* If there are multiple strong $5s, but they don't synergize (e.g., Mountebank and Witch), then you're still better off buying the $5 you want.
* If there are multiple strong $5s and they go together, then Altar becomes more appealing.

Why would Gold be useful faster than Altar? You use Gold to buy a Witch; you get that Witch next shuffle. You use Altar to gain a Witch, you get that Witch next shuffle.

7469
Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Box Image and Description
« on: April 24, 2013, 04:32:59 pm »
So for wild unfounded speculation's sake, how do we think these new mechanics will play in practice? My thoughts:

* +Buy will become less important, or at least face competition, since now you can cheerfully use your leftover cash on other things without the effort of picking up a Woodcutter or whatever. $2 cards may also face competition, although I bet we see an "overpay to gain another card" card which functions along the lines of "when you buy this +1 Buy"

* Cards that often lead to overpaying get stronger. I'm looking at Spoils, maybe Death Cart (although that's quite severe overpayment), Platinum (likewise) and probably some others.

* Planning is in, improvising is out of style (relatively speaking of course). You don't have to worry quite so much about shuffle luck since overpaying for the card you wanted won't hurt so much, and coin tokens obviously afford a measure of control over your cashflow, especially if they're available early.

Bear in mind that all of this is only relevant if one of the 13 Guilds cards is present in the kingdom.  If all 13 of the Guilds cards even have the "pay more" mechanic.

Which I'd say it's a safe bet that they won't. Alchemy had cards without Potion in the cost. Hinterlands had cards without an on-Gain effect. Seaside had non-Durations. Etc.

7470
I like the idea a lot, but I'm worried that with different players receiving different Trinkets, there can easily be an unfair advantage for one player over another; depending completely on what else is on the board.
Quote
Rare Coin
Treasure/Trinket - $4
Worth $1
As already mentioned, sometimes 100% the same as Copper, sometimes really good.
Quote
Toy Bridge (credit to dondon151)
Treasure/Trinket - $0
Worth $0
---
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less, to a minimum cost of $0
Same as above... though it's more common to have at least some option of +buy. I like this one, basically a Silver if you buy 2 cards.
Quote
Key to the City
Treasure/Trinket - $0
Worth $1
+$1 for each empty supply pile
Needs "when you play this" type wording. The bonus isn't nearly enough to make a player try to empty a pile if they wouldn't otherwise, but it still works out just fine if you keep it to the end of the game.
Quote
Bell
Action/Trinket - $0
+2 Actions
+$1
Probably the most powerful Trinket. Interesting that it's an Action and not a Treasure. But completely unfair if it's a board that would be great for an engine except there's no Villages; the player who gets this probably automatically wins. Especially if there's something like TR or KC.
Quote
Dagger
Treasure/Reaction/Trinket - $0
Worth $1
---
When another player plays an Attack, you may trash this. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.
Needs "from hand" wording. I would like it better if you discarded it instead of trashed it. Trashing is weird because it can be really good (free Copper trash), but maybe you don't want to trash it because it's stopping attacks.
Quote
Locket
Treasure/Victory/Trinket - $0
Worth 1VP for every Trinket in your deck
---
Worth $1
I agree with above; should just be a flat 1 VP. Also the only Trinket which has some sort of use in every game.


7471
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Redlines
« on: April 23, 2013, 03:06:18 pm »
This is the first time I hear of RFTG, is it worth playing? How does it compare to dominion?

It's awesome. I'm terrible at it, but I still love it.

Hard to compare to Dominion. Maybe a cross between Puerto Rico and Dominion. If you've played San Juan; even more similar to that. I like that it goes really fast. It only has as much player interaction as a game of Dominion without any attacks.. that is to say, you still need to pay close attention to your opponent, but no direct interaction.

7472
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko adventures help
« on: April 23, 2013, 09:54:53 am »
One l more question, what are the stars for? I read the instructions and would think it is a measure of point gap at the end of the game, but I had one game where I beat the bot by 50 points and got one star, and another where I was only ahead by 6 and got two stars. I believe the stars don't matter, but in case something in the game looks at them I wanted to check.

The stars are based on your score, unless the've changed something:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7147.0

I found it impossible to get 3 stars on at least one of the levels...

7473
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Sound Effects
« on: April 22, 2013, 02:47:55 pm »
I think that beep is the "new round" beep. It indicates that it is the start player's turn.

I just played a game with a bot where the bot went first and it beeped on my turn. This was the first time recently I've seen it beep on my turn. But, it disproves this theory.

Maybe it's buggy. :)

Ok, then I don't know what it's supposed to be. Some half-programmed turn alert that doesn't always go off, and doesn't go off on your turn.

Random n = new Random();
if (n.Next < .5)
   PlaySound();

7474
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Inverse Counting House?
« on: April 22, 2013, 01:56:55 pm »
Sometimes i'm just stupid. I totally missed you had the shuffle in there ^^'
You missed the reshuffle!

I'm a Duration. This turn, i give + 1 respect.

You have to give +1 respect to his next post as well...

7475
Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: So. Guilds.
« on: April 22, 2013, 01:30:26 pm »

In this case we can imagine there might be a card in Guilds that looks like the following:
Discounter - Action - $4
+1 Buy
Name a card. While this is in play that card costs $3 less.


That's insanely overpowered... it's strictly better than a Terminal Gold, which most say would be balanced at $5.

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