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Messages - GendoIkari

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7451
Dominion General Discussion / When to buy Explorer
« on: December 13, 2011, 12:25:22 pm »
Looking for answers other than "never." I don't remember every buying this card, though Council Room says I did 3 times. I don't know if I trust that, because it also says I bought each of the prizes 2.08 times... and you can't ever buy prizes.

So, under what circumstance is this card worth it? Gardens possibly?

7452
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« on: December 12, 2011, 05:37:38 pm »
What if the attack card is a terminal (and most attack cards are) and there are no Villages in the kingdom?   Then you can never play this with an attack card in play.

You missed that this is a treasure card, not an action.

7453
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Isotropic Moments of 2011
« on: December 12, 2011, 04:13:32 pm »
This doesn't seem to come close to Chogg's, but here's a game where my opponent had an incredible comeback in a game I was sure I'd won:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111211-152330-bd4271ac.html

Mostly because on turn 17, he managed to King's Court a Saboteur and hit Gold, Gold, Province. And gave me 3 curses on the same turn.

7454
Variants and Fan Cards / Thought experiment: Curses
« on: December 12, 2011, 03:21:09 pm »
This thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1156.0 got me thinking. What if the rule were that when you purchase a curse, you can place it into your opponent's discard pile? What does this do to strategy? Obviously +buy cards become way stronger. But when you don't have +buy, when is this the right move? My guess is that if you have $3 or more to spend, it is almost never a good idea to buy a curse. Compare it to Sea Hag (by itself)... give your opponent a curse, do nothing else with your action phase. Buying a curse is give your opponent a curse, skip your entire turn.

I think cards like Witch would still be good. Draw cards, give your opponents a curse, still have your buy available!

Of course, this also makes for targeted attacks when playing with more than 2 people.

Thoughts?

Also, how would I put the link above such that the words "this thread" are the link?

7455
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« on: December 12, 2011, 10:26:27 am »
Highway + Plague.... crazy strong in the right situation.

Serf... I don't think you would ever buy this on a board that doesn't have +buy. Which means it effectively requires other things in the Kingdom, which is a general no-no.

Witch Hunt seems like a forced opening buy to me. The only other $4 curser is Sea Hag, and that gives no benefit for playing it. This lets you trash and give curses, and give copper and estates if curses run out.

Spoils of War - Duration cards already have specific rules that say that they stay in play until the end of the last turn that they do something. So the line about keeping it in play until the end of your next turn modifies the normal duration rules slightly, and isn't needed.

7456
Rules Questions / Re: Curses
« on: December 12, 2011, 10:20:34 am »
No offence but I really don't understand why so many people have been confused about Curses in this way. Would you mind explaining what made you think they worked like this in the first place? I just don't get it =/

What ftl said, plus the bit in the rule book that says that the curse pile is available every game. Since the original set only had 1 card that gave out curses, but you always had to put the curse pile out, a lot of people assumed that curses were a legitimate buy (they are), but since you wouldn't ever want to, you must buy them and give them to another player.

7457
Simulation / Re: Nomad Camp/Fool's Gold
« on: December 09, 2011, 05:50:37 pm »
I'm curious how much better this is than the exact same bot replacing Nomad Camp with Woodcutter.

7458
Game Reports / Re: In which I use Chapel to trash 2 Provinces
« on: December 09, 2011, 04:41:01 pm »
Yeah, it's just such a small component of your deck, and if he hits it, oh well, you'll almost certainly be able to buy another one real soon. There are also still 2 Peddlers you can grab.

Straight trashing the Provinces is giving up a lot for a pretty marginal speedup here. With many of the boutique trashers - Salvager, Bishop, Remodel, Expand - it would indeed be a very good play.

Thanks. I think I agree; especially based on the fact that I only won by 6 points in a game in which my opponent was unable to do almost anything. At the time it seemed great, though.

7459
Game Reports / Re: In which I use Chapel to trash 2 Provinces
« on: December 09, 2011, 04:25:33 pm »
I don't think it's a good move. Once you're that full of actions and VPs, you can probably just buy a Gold or 2 and keep scoring normally.

I wanted to avoid Gold, or even Silver, because of his Pirate Ship. But perhaps I didn't need to be worried about it; knowing that I'd have Secret Chamber about 1/3 of the time; and the Gold in hand another 1/3 of the time...

7460
Game Reports / In which I use Chapel to trash 2 Provinces
« on: December 09, 2011, 04:10:29 pm »
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111208-164248-c5f8b0eb.html

I want to know what people think about my turn 16 here. I think my opponent made a big mistake by going Pirate Ship on this board, but once he did, I had a great thing going where I was getting 8 money every turn, but in a very small deck. This meant that I knew I would start drawing those Provinces instead of my 8 money, so I figured I would just trash a couple, and easily collect the rest.

I got a little worried when he immediately responded by buying a Province; I thought his deck would be incapable of doing that. Also, I had 3 Provinces in my hand along with that Chapel, so I could have actually trashed all 3. So did I make the right move here? It obviously worked, but would you ever see yourself doing something similar in a game?

7461
Got it, thanks!

7462
Theory is essentially correct: You can get infinite with a single Possession, Council Room, Throne Room, and enough Masquerades. Pass them around as you play, and TR the Possession, doubling the amount of turns spent on the next player.
But if you're playing against one other accomplice you can get over 3000 cards in hand without passing the Possessions.


It involves several tricks: KC on a lot of things, Possession, Outpost, Council Rooms are the big ones, since you get 62 turns to get 30 cards each time. The first turn is possessed, and includes an outpost play, then the outpost turn occurs, then the 59 other possessions, then the normal turn.
 To get another fraction one can use Torturers, then masquerade the curses back, then ambassador/moat them back into the pile. This takes 5 cards to increase the hand by 2, and I think with the remaining KC/TR you can net about 20 a turn this way.


I'm not getting the infinite Possession thing. I see using Masquerade to pass Possessions around, but play has to proceed clockwise. Eventually, you will be the player being Possessed, and as soon as you are, your giant hand is used and then discarded.

7463
relevant

Man, I never thought of Outpost. I think you could pull of 60 Possessions instead of 30, which would double the number from your opponents.

7464
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Confusable cards
« on: December 08, 2011, 03:12:57 pm »
I've done the Farmland / Fairgrounds one twice... Mint/Mine I did, but even worse, I didn't notice that I trashed my treasures, and proceeded to play Mint on a Copper, thinking I would get a Silver back.

I've also mixed up Warehouse / Courtyard. Not sure why, I just got confused. I played Courtyard when I had other actions to play; thinking I would get +1 action from it.

7465
Feedback / Feature request: Respect info
« on: December 08, 2011, 02:59:51 pm »
It would be nice if there were a way to see which posts of yours have been voted up. I can't help but be curious which things I've said that people have up-voted!

7466
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Unlimited Tacticians
« on: December 08, 2011, 02:56:49 pm »
Ok, I just thought of something that could increase my answer by a whole bunch:

Player A does the above trick, but during B's last possessed turn, B plays a bunch of Masquerades. Player A passes Possessions and Kings courts to Player B. Then, on player B's regular turn, he can play a bunch of KC'd Possessions as well. Since Player B would have to have all the Council Rooms and Governors, they would need to be Masqueraded around as well to get to Player C. But I think this could technically work. I don't think that player B could Possess C quite as many times as A possessed B, and C couldn't help you as much on his turns as B did, but it would add some.

7467
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Unlimited Tacticians
« on: December 08, 2011, 02:43:22 pm »
Potential answer to part 2:

4 player game, you are player D. Player B plays 30 Possessions with KC -> KC -> KC -> Possession.

This can be done with 6 Kings Courts and 10 Possessions (I wasn't able to do it with only 5 KC)... leaving 4 Kings Courts in Player C's Deck. On each of Player C's 31 turns (30 possessed, 1 normal), he plays KC -> KC -> Gov, Gov, Gov, KC -> KC -> Gov, Gov, Gov. Throne Room to play the last 3 Governors twice each (1 left in supply). 6 Thrones left. 6 Council Rooms played twice each, 3 more played once each (1 left in supply). Then plays 9 Torturers. (Which you respond to with 9 Horse Traders). If you have 29 curses, then your opponent stops playing Torturers.

So...

6 KC Gov + 3 TR Gov = 24 cards.
6 TR CR + 3 CR = 15 cards.

39 cards per turn. Times 31 turns = 1209 cards.

Assume you had 9 of each of the durations, so only 2 piles are empty.

1209 + 29 from curses + 5 from start hand + 18 from Wharf + 9 from Caravan + 9 from Haven + 9 from Horse Traders  + 45 from Tactician trick = 1333 cards in hand at the start of your turn.

I believe this empties only the Kings Court and the Possession piles.

Of course... if you had that many cards in your deck, the game would have to be over by 3-piles anyway.



7468
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Unlimited Tacticians
« on: December 08, 2011, 02:11:35 pm »
I'm confused by this:
With opponents, you can have a nested sequence of Possessions whereby they keep possessing each other while playing each of their 5 Council Rooms and 5 Governors each turn.  E.g., A plays 5 CR's, then plays Possession.  A (playing B's deck) plays 5 CR's, then Possession.  B (playing A's deck) plays 5 CR's, then Possession.  This leads to an infinite number of plays between them.  Or am I mistaken?

You can only possess the person to your left, so your opponents cannot possess each other. I think the best you can do is have one possess the other 30 times (via mass KCs) and play 9-10 governors and 9-10 council rooms and 9-10 torturers (for which you reveal horse traders and gain curses in hand) each time.

Ooh, I hadn't thought of Torturers! There's another 30 cards you could have (assume 4 player; all 30 Curses). So it seems like Kings Court are best left for your opponent's possessions, instead of your own Durations then.

7469
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Unlimited Tacticians
« on: December 08, 2011, 02:08:51 pm »
I'm going to assume that part 2 involves a lot of KC - Governors and KC - Council Rooms on top of the Durations.

The problem with that is you want to save the KC for your own durations. But Governor and Council room, definitely.

7470
So we all know now how you can successfully play 2 Tacticians in a turn so that next turn you'll get +10 cards, +2 actions, and +2 buys. So, can you find a way to play 3? And then, what's the most you can play on one turn? Can you play all 10, for +50 cards, + 10 actions, and + 10 buys on your next turn?

Part 2:

Perhaps drawing 50 cards just isn't enough, so lets play other durations to add to it. What is the most number of cards you can start your turn with (after you draw from durations)?

A) Solitaire game
B) With help from opponents

7471
Rules Questions / Re: Coppersmith/ Black Market
« on: December 08, 2011, 01:15:59 pm »
I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario in which you couldn't have just played your Coppersmith before your Black Market in the first place... is there one?
Minion
Or Golem
I'm missing something... I think I get the Minion thing... Village, Black Market, and Minion in hand. Play in that order, Minion draws you Coppersmith. But how does Golem lead to playing Black Market before Coppersmth?

Golem draws Lab and BM. Lab draws Coppersmith but you're forced to play the BM first.
Right, thanks. :)

7472
Rules Questions / Re: Coppersmith/ Black Market
« on: December 08, 2011, 12:59:38 pm »
I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario in which you couldn't have just played your Coppersmith before your Black Market in the first place... is there one?
Minion
Or Golem
I'm missing something... I think I get the Minion thing... Village, Black Market, and Minion in hand. Play in that order, Minion draws you Coppersmith. But how does Golem lead to playing Black Market before Coppersmth?

7473
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Times when you play an Action for no benefit
« on: December 08, 2011, 10:06:42 am »
Shanty Town does give you a benefit.

Spice Merchant (and many others) has "You may ... if you do" text on it.

I would argue that if you have Shanty Town and exactly 1 other non-drawing action in your hand, and no Diadem, then playing the Shanty Town is equivalent of playing Chapel and trashing nothing. Same goes for Nobels, if you have it in hand with 1 non-drawing action and you use it for +2 actions.

7474
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought Experiment: No Waste Dominion
« on: December 07, 2011, 03:22:47 pm »
Big money would become disgustingly dominant, because it is one of the few strategies not massively disadvantaged by the forced buy.

Actually, Big Money wouldn't necessary work so well... if you have $4 or $5, you wouldn't be allowed to buy a Silver! You would be forced to buy actions, or early green.
Presumably you simply wouldn't play all 4-5... unless you've got silver-silver-green-green-green or something.
Oh right. Oops.

So, we could modify the rules to say you must play all treasure in hand. It would be more in the sprit of "no-waste," and also gimp big money as much as it would gimp engines.

7475
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought Experiment: No Waste Dominion
« on: December 07, 2011, 03:04:25 pm »
Big money would become disgustingly dominant, because it is one of the few strategies not massively disadvantaged by the forced buy.

Actually, Big Money wouldn't necessary work so well... if you have $4 or $5, you wouldn't be allowed to buy a Silver! You would be forced to buy actions, or early green.

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