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7401

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Thread to organize telling Goko they're wrong

« on: May 14, 2013, 11:40:27 am »

The problem I have with gaining or losing points from a tie is that suddenly the higher and lower ranked players are playing games with different victory conditions. If you're lower-ranked, you're aiming for a win or a tie. If you have a higher rank, you're avoiding ties.

I don't have a problem with this... For one, it means that your ranking more accurately reflects your skill... if you tie with a lower ranked player, you are less likely to be better than him, so you should have a ranking closer to his. Second, it reflects regular unranked games, I think.... if I'm playing with someone who isn't very good at the game, and I tie, I will feel like I lost.... I should have beat him, I either screwed up or got unlucky. If I'm playing against WW or Obi, and I tie, I'll feel pretty darn good about myself.

7402

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Thread to organize telling Goko they're wrong

« on: May 14, 2013, 11:36:06 am »

Ahh, that's right. It has been a while. So in any case, if you can get a tie, the higher ranked player, in this case should lose points. If your scores are tie but the game isn't it should be a full win for the victor.

this actually happens in the rating system right now. I had this happen yesterday, where i lost 25 points for a tie with a player ~1500 points lower than me.

And i certainly felt it's not right. It was a game with no +buy and we traded provinces back and forth. He broke PPR, and i couldn't do anything but tie, since i was 2nd player. Why should i get penalized for this?

I agree with you, although for different reasons.

As mentioned, there are no ties in Dominion.  Either one player wins and the other loses, or they both win.  No other options.

In the case where you forced the joint victory as 2p, you both should have been given wins (as you rejoiced in your shared victory).  Your opponent would have gotten a large boost to his rating; you would have gotten a much smaller one.  All would be right with the world.

This seems silly to me... I think it's taking the phrase "rejoice in their shared victory" far too literally. That's simply a friendly and flavorful way of stating that it's a tie. I seriously don't think that the authors of the rule book intended to distinguish that situation from a tie game! In a tournament with a cash prize, if the final round ends in a tie they aren't just going to give both players the full prize amount... they will either split the prize amount, or have another round to determine the winner.

If you tie against a player of lower rank, you should lose points and he should gain points. The point of a ranking system is to determine how good you are. If you tie against a lower ranked player, you are less likely now to better than that player, so your rank should be moved closer to that player. A ranking system shouldn't take into account things like whether the rule book uses the phrase "shared victory" or "tie"... that would defeat the purpose of a ranking system.

7403

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Why is Overgrown Estate a Victory card worth 0?

« on: May 14, 2013, 09:47:36 am »

Donald did talk about this a bit, in response to people complaining that the fact that it's a Victory Card leads to unwanted interactions. Donald said that those interactions were wanted. So I think he made it a Victory Card because he wanted things like Crossroads, Silk Roads, Scout, etc, to work with it. Also, I think it's more thematic to have it as a Victory Card, because it's more similar to an Estate.

Horn of Plenty says 0 instead of ? because the value is known... it's 0. Bank has to say ? because it's value changes.

7404

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Stupid Pet Tricks

« on: May 13, 2013, 02:36:47 pm »

If this is a real game, it belongs in "greatest moments", not "stupid pet tricks", I think!

Indeed. The silver he topdecks with Bureaucrat just magically disappears before he plays Masquerade, that's a miracle!

Silver pile was empty?

7405

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: House Rule: All Ruins Do The Same Thing

« on: May 13, 2013, 11:41:20 am »

Ruined Scout
+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Victory cards into your hand. Put the other cards on top of your deck in any order.

Yes, I left the +1 Action on purpose. Yes, it is better than Ruined Village. Yes, it is yet another Scout-joke.

*Ahem* http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3845.msg79043#msg79043

 

7406

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The treasure kingdom

« on: May 13, 2013, 10:51:11 am »

Counterfeit is way more plausible than Loan for me.

On a 5/2, sure... but otherwise you get Loan quicker.

7407

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The treasure kingdom

« on: May 13, 2013, 10:50:32 am »

What's the right strategy?

Loan
Talisman
Counterfeit
Royal Seal
Venture
Cache
Contraband
Hoard
Bank
Philosopher's Stone

Also, Platinum and Colony (and Potions!)

Not used:
Quarry - left out because it's just a Copper here.
Ill Gotten Gains - left out because people don't buy it for the treasure; also it would probably just be a straight-forward IGG rush anyway.
Horn of Plenty - left out because it's the least "treasure-like" treasure.
Stash - mostly left out because I still had 11 cards... also a promo, and doubtful to be part of a good strategy here anyway.


My thoughts... 2 possible ideas:

1, Loan, Venture, Bank
2. Talisman + Philosopher's Stone... not too likely, but possibly?

You left out Fool's Gold and Harem.  For being hybrid, perhaps.

Correct, left them out because they aren't "just" treasures.

7408

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What do you think about this?

« on: May 13, 2013, 10:48:33 am »

How would that interact with four highways then?

Ooh, tough call.

Highways reduce price immediately, so it would end at $1 in the buy phase, I think.

But with a Bridge it could be called $0 or $1... there's no defined order to the effects. It is a little wordy, but:

During your Buy phase, this costs 2 less per Action card you have in play, but not less than 0.
When you gain this, you may gain a card cheaper than this. If you don't, gain a Copper.

What do you mean? Bridges reduce price immediately as well.

Oops, I had it backwards. With Bridge I would say there is no question... but with Highway (and Princess), it's not as clear. Although the price reduction does take place immediately, because it's a "while this is in play", it's a continuous effect, not a one-time thing like Bridge. So during your buy phase, you still have 2 separate continuous effects happening.. I don't think it should matter which one started first.

Quarry is no different... if we agree that a continuous effect that happens first is the one that is counted first, then the Border Peddler happened first... it became your buy phase BEFORE you played Quarry. Unless you played Quarry with Black Market. So it's tracking issues. You can't simply look at the table, without knowing the history of the turn, and know if it costs $0 or $1.

7409

Rules Questions / Re: bad (Dutch) translations & rules

« on: May 13, 2013, 10:42:22 am »

But let's not forget: The English isn't perfect to start with. "When" is a highly ambiguous term. Does "when you gain" mean "immediately before", "during/as" or "after"? In Nomad Camp's case it means "as you gain", in Watchtower's case it means "after you gained".

I thought this had been settled. "When you gain" means after the gain is completed and the card is in your discard pile. Nomad Camp does not happen "when you gain", despite incorrectly using those words.

7410

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Stupid Pet Tricks

« on: May 13, 2013, 09:42:48 am »

Hand: village*4 and possession
play 4 villages, drawing:
bureaucrat, ambassador, masquerade,  king's court
play bureaucrat, opponent reveal and put back a colony.
play masquerade, drawing council room and masquerade, pass your opponent a ambassador
play masquerade,  pass your opponent a king's court
play council room, draw something, opponent draw the colony.
play possession.
...

opponent possessed turn:
hand : colony, ambassador, king's court and  something
play king's court,
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 0 copy, you gain a colony.
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 0 copy, you gain a colony.
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 1 copy, you gain a colony.
...

If this is a real game, it belongs in "greatest moments", not "stupid pet tricks", I think!

7411

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What do you think about this?

« on: May 13, 2013, 09:40:10 am »

How would that interact with four highways then?

Ooh, tough call.

Highways reduce price immediately, so it would end at $1 in the buy phase, I think.

But with a Bridge it could be called $0 or $1... there's no defined order to the effects. It is a little wordy, but:

During your Buy phase, this costs 2 less per Action card you have in play, but not less than 0.
When you gain this, you may gain a card cheaper than this. If you don't, gain a Copper.

7412

Rules Questions / Re: Forge coppers into curse, even if there are no more curses in the supply ?

« on: May 13, 2013, 09:36:22 am »

Ok thanks for your responses, i'll keep it in mind then :-)

[EDIT]

Ah, now i remember why i asked intially, because when someone plays a torturer on you, you can choose to gain a curse from the empty pile, i confused the issue here.

[/EDIT]

Torturer and Tournament both allow you to make a choice where you gain nothing, but it's because they provide 2 separate options of which action you want to follow. Torturer lets you choose to either discard 2 cards or gain a curse. Tournament lets you choose to either gain a Duchy, or gain a Prize. With both those cards, you first choose which path you will follow, and then separately carry out the instructions. So you choose "gain a curse" before the game every checks to see if there are curses available.

But with Forge (or Workshop, etc), there is no choice to make, at least not until you are already following the "gain a card" part of the instructions. And at that point, you have no choice but to actually gain a card, which means to choose an available card and gain it.

7413

Dominion General Discussion / The treasure kingdom

« on: May 11, 2013, 12:02:46 pm »

What's the right strategy?

Loan
Talisman
Counterfeit
Royal Seal
Venture
Cache
Contraband
Hoard
Bank
Philosopher's Stone

Also, Platinum and Colony (and Potions!)

Not used:
Quarry - left out because it's just a Copper here.
Ill Gotten Gains - left out because people don't buy it for the treasure; also it would probably just be a straight-forward IGG rush anyway.
Horn of Plenty - left out because it's the least "treasure-like" treasure.
Stash - mostly left out because I still had 11 cards... also a promo, and doubtful to be part of a good strategy here anyway.


My thoughts... 2 possible ideas:

1, Loan, Venture, Bank
2. Talisman + Philosopher's Stone... not too likely, but possibly?

7414

Goko Dominion Online / Re: F.DS room on (public) Goko - Outpost?

« on: May 10, 2013, 11:36:15 pm »

Anyone with cards wanna play with me?

^ This is hypnotizing.

Is it going towards you or away?

You just blew my mind. Towards, but now that you've mentioned it I can see it both ways.

7415

Goko Dominion Online / Re: F.DS room on (public) Goko - Outpost?

« on: May 10, 2013, 12:59:20 pm »

Anyone with cards wanna play with me?

^ This is hypnotizing.

7416

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like

« on: May 09, 2013, 03:15:12 pm »

Farming Village
Action - $4
+2 Actions
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card. Put all the revealed cards in your hand.

It's simpler, more interesting and slightly more thematic.

This makes Farming Village a bit stronger, but only with Trash for benefit. I wouldn't say this pushes it out of being reasonable at $4.

Not only trash for benefit... it's stronger if you have any trashing in general; anytime you would reshuffle after playing Farming Village (bad cards miss the shuffle). Also the following cards: Warehouse; Hamlet; Vault; Secret Chamber; Storeroom; Cellar; Masquerade; Tournament; Baron; Ambassador; Madman. Worse for Hermit though!

I'm not so sure about what I said before about $5... it would be quote a weak $5... but it's still way better than current Farming Village in a fair number of situations.

Why is it worse for Hermit?  Hermit can trash from hand.

Oops. Was just thinking about the trash from discard part.

7417

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like

« on: May 09, 2013, 02:32:13 pm »

Farming Village
Action - $4
+2 Actions
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card. Put all the revealed cards in your hand.

It's simpler, more interesting and slightly more thematic.

This makes Farming Village a bit stronger, but only with Trash for benefit. I wouldn't say this pushes it out of being reasonable at $4.

Not only trash for benefit... it's stronger if you have any trashing in general; anytime you would reshuffle after playing Farming Village (bad cards miss the shuffle). Also the following cards: Warehouse; Hamlet; Vault; Secret Chamber; Storeroom; Cellar; Masquerade; Tournament; Baron; Ambassador; Madman. Worse for Hermit though!

I'm not so sure about what I said before about $5... it would be quote a weak $5... but it's still way better than current Farming Village in a fair number of situations.

7418

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Single Card Kingdoms

« on: May 09, 2013, 11:42:00 am »

I feel like Baroness should be reversed... cost $1 LESS for every Estate still in the Supply. That would make it an interesting question of if you want to get it early or not. As it is now, you would always just get it near the very end of the game, no real decision required.

So, with Commune, is the idea that people can buy it after you've played it, to steal it from you?

7419

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like

« on: May 09, 2013, 09:54:07 am »

New Farming Village is waaay too powerful. Is strictly superior to regular Village, strictly superior to Scout and it costs $2? I think even at $4 it would be overpowered, although it would be bad at $5.

Why people do not like FV? I like it as it is.

Looks like the $2 was a typo. I still agree it's too god for $4. It might work as a $5. It's not strictly better than Scout though... if it finds an action on top, it was just a regular Village. You might still have 3 green cards below it that are stuck there for your next draws; Scout would have picked those up (plus just the rearranging ability for when you don't find green).

7420

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like

« on: May 09, 2013, 09:42:36 am »

Inn
Action - $5
+2 Cards
Discard any number of cards, +1 action for each card you discard this way
---
When you gain this, you may look through your discard pile (including this), reveal any number of Action cards from it, and shuffle them into your deck.

More variety, and more thematic on top (the more "time" you spend at the inn, the more you can do), and the bottom cuts down on unnecessary shuffling.

I agree it would be fun, but probably way too powerful. The ability to get lots of actions in a draw-your-deck engine... 1 or 2 of these, and you don't need any other Villages. Also, simply +2 cards, +1 action, Discard a card is probably pretty good sifting.

When are you shuffling unnecessarily though? If you don't add any actions to your deck, and you didn't have any knowledge about the order of your deck, then you've already successfully shuffled before your first riffle... the definition of shuffling is randomizing your deck so that the order of cards isn't known. That has been accomplished... no one I know of would ever force you to actually shuffle redundantly in the situation, you've already met the requirements.

Farming Village
Action - $2
+2 Actions
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card. Put all the revealed cards in your hand.

It's simpler, more interesting and slightly more thematic.

Um, that Farming Village is a good bit better than the regular one, and costs way less?

*Edit* I see you fixed the cost. I still think it needs to be a $5, though.

7421

Dominion General Discussion / Re: [poll] Scout's opportunity price

« on: May 08, 2013, 02:55:26 pm »

I think it's the wrong question, given that you want to ask about opportunity cost. Opportunity is as much, if not more, about buys than it is about money. If I only have 1 buy, it makes no different if Scout costs $0 or $4; I'm not going to buy it (unless I can't buy anything else). To remove the problem of opportunity cost, you either need to give Scout a "when you buy this, +1 buy" or ask about "when would you take Scout if it had a Duchess-like text that let you take one whenever you gain a [victory card maybe?]).

If I could really get a Scout for free ($0, when you buy this, +1 buy), I would want 1-2 of them in almost any deck, so long as it had at least a couple VP cards in it, or a couple cards that care about the order of my deck (any cantrip will do). I think the times that it helps you out would outweigh the times that it is just a Ruined Village.

7422

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How do you guys not get bored?

« on: May 08, 2013, 02:40:51 pm »

I don't think I would accept games with him.

I wouldn't as things stand now. I would in the future, though, if he showed signs of remorse and having matured.

7423

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A triple duration attempt: Musketeers

« on: May 08, 2013, 02:11:08 pm »

Musketeers:
Action/Duration/Reaction - $3
+$1
At the start of your next turn, +1 action
---
When you discard this from play, draw an extra card at the end of this turn's clean-up phase.

A duration card the gives 3 different effects over 3 turns. Buy lots of these and you'll be able to play lots of them in sync with each other to do well.

It's a terminal Copper, that's followed by a Fishing Village (without the $1), followed by a Caravan (that's vulnerable to attacks).

(Yes, I know there were actually 4 musketeers)

Edit: Removed the bottom decking. The intention is to have a followable: +$1, at the start of your next turn, +1 action, the turn after, +1 card
Edit 2: Found a happy version.

There were only 3 musketeers at first, d'Artagnan only becomes the 4th at the end of the story. 

Well actually there were lots of musketeers; 3 of them were just more prominent in the story.

7424

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: New Nation: an expansion set

« on: May 08, 2013, 01:07:46 pm »

Wampum -- "When you play this... during your Buy phase..." This wording is usually redundant.  The exception is with Black Market, in which case it is confusing.  Does it happen when you play it, or during the Buy phase?

You didn't mention the insane power of it... am I wrong in thinking that Wampum/Wampum is the only correct opening in almost every game? If they don't miss the reshuffle, you start turn 5 with either 7 or 8 Silvers in your deck, depending on if they collided.

7425

Rules Questions / Re: Trader / Ruins (or Knights)

« on: May 07, 2013, 10:07:23 pm »

What do you mean about the "3-card turn"?